Refuting A Major Conservative Talking Point About Gun Control

[QuackeryDetection]

 

[night_son]

The vast majority of poor and lower middle class Indians, tens and tens of millions of them, live under terrible oppression forced down upon them by an ancient, tyrannical caste system. If the Indian people at large owned the same amount of private firearms as American citizens they just might break themselves out of their castes. Further, the Indian government is infamous for shedding the blood of its largely unarmed poorer citizens. Do put another quarter in the slot and try again.

 

[Confederate Soldier]

What he said.

 

[scruffy]

What he said.

Seconded.

(Thirded).

 

[OKTexas]

First thing you need to detect is the posting rules.

.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Well, this thread ended quickly.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

Seconded.

(Thirded).

fourth'd

 

[flacaltenn]

From that FIRST chart -- what you posted is propaganda not refuting anything.

First chart doesn't show that over 60% of that number is guns deaths by suicide and you can't tell me that OTHER COUNTRIES dont have high suicide rates WITHOUT guns that would not ever SHOW on that chart.

Also doesn't note that GANG RELATED gun deaths make up another 18 to 20%. So that's up to 80% of American gun deaths are DUE to either SUICIDE OR GANG VIOLENCE.

And like the hidden suicide figure, you can't tell me that other countries dont have GANG PROBLEMS that just use other weapons to kill each other.

Rest of this hit piece is just as bad. India is NO parallel to the ROOT CAUSES of gun violence in this country. Not any kind of REFUTATION. More idiotic, propaganda by folks who dont HAVE A CLUE about gun death statistics.

 

[Senter]

GOOD JOB!

Another big talking point is the 2nd Amendment. It was written in vague terms intentionally. It was a concession to some who wanted such language in the Constitution. But there are other relevant and related parts of the Constitution.

Article I, Section 8 says "The Congress shall have Power ... To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;


To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress".

And Article II, Section 2 says "The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States"

That is completely different from what the right wing is trying to perpetrate on us today. And regarding the part that says "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed", that part is most vague since most of the Second Amendment is not defined, like "the right to bear arms". When and where? Under what conditions? What does "bear" mean? And how is the Amendment completely related to the material conditions of the day?

Search for authoritative articles on the subject. Here's one article:
"The history of the Second Amendment is long and twisted; the Amendment itself has been subject to repeated scrutiny and elaboration, and the way in which it’s interpreted today is a relatively new way of understanding this statute written in the late 18th century.


It’s hard to understand exactly what’s at stake without a detailed look at why it was originally written, how it has been interpreted over the last two and a half centuries, and what it currently seems to imply."

The Second Amendment: A Complete History of the Right to Bear Arms

As a citizen of the United States, do I have the right to massacre a large group of my fellow citizens with my legally purchased AR-15? Of course not. However, over the last two decades, a number of individuals have done exactly that; the settings of each incident now existing infused with...

historycooperative.org

Here's another: The Second Amendment Does Not Transcend All Others


And another: The Forgotten Truth Of How Slavery Shaped The 2nd Amendment

 

[Grumblenuts]

From that FIRST chart -- what you posted is propaganda not refuting anything.

First chart doesn't show that over 60% of that number is guns deaths by suicide and you can't tell me that OTHER COUNTRIES dont have high suicide rates WITHOUT guns that would not ever SHOW on that chart.

Also doesn't note that GANG RELATED gun deaths make up another 18 to 20%. So that's up to 80% of American gun deaths are DUE to either SUICIDE OR GANG VIOLENCE.

And like the hidden suicide figure, you can't tell me that other countries dont have GANG PROBLEMS that just use other weapons to kill each other.

Rest of this hit piece is just as bad. India is NO parallel to the ROOT CAUSES of gun violence in this country. Not any kind of REFUTATION. More idiotic, propaganda by folks who dont HAVE A CLUE about gun death statistics.

See all that bold and ALL CAPS you used? A new member's first post and you're ridiculously triggered already. Why? Logic. RW / Conservative talking point -- "The problem of mass shootings in the U.S. is due to mental health." Suicide and gang violence can also involve mental health, but mass shootings definitely require guns. Duh!

 

[wamose]

Killing babies, confiscating guns, promoting oil sourced using filthy methods, flooding our country with illiterate, criminal illegal aliens and drugs, and disbanding cops are what Democrats believe in. Anyone who votes for any Democrat must hate themselves and their country.

 

[Dragonlady]

Killing babies, confiscating guns and promoting oil sourced using filthy methods, flooding our country with illiterate, criminal illegal aliens and drugs, and disbanding cops are what Democrats believe in. Anyone who votes for any Democrat must hate themselves and their country.

Please stop telling yourself what Demcrats believe in. It's just a litany of Republican lies.

 

[Flash]

Speaking if India, Gandhi was a strong proponet of the right to keep and bear arms, by the way.

 

[Pete7469]

From that FIRST chart -- what you posted is propaganda not refuting anything.

First chart doesn't show that over 60% of that number is guns deaths by suicide and you can't tell me that OTHER COUNTRIES dont have high suicide rates WITHOUT guns that would not ever SHOW on that chart.

Also doesn't note that GANG RELATED gun deaths make up another 18 to 20%. So that's up to 80% of American gun deaths are DUE to either SUICIDE OR GANG VIOLENCE.

And like the hidden suicide figure, you can't tell me that other countries dont have GANG PROBLEMS that just use other weapons to kill each other.

Rest of this hit piece is just as bad. India is NO parallel to the ROOT CAUSES of gun violence in this country. Not any kind of REFUTATION. More idiotic, propaganda by folks who dont HAVE A CLUE about gun death statistics.

 

[Pete7469]

GOOD JOB!

Another big talking point is the 2nd Amendment. It was written in vague terms intentionally. It was a concession to some who wanted such language in the Constitution. But there are other relevant and related parts of the Constitution.

Article I, Section 8 says "The Congress shall have Power ... To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;


To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress".

And Article II, Section 2 says "The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States"

That is completely different from what the right wing is trying to perpetrate on us today. And regarding the part that says "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed", that part is most vague since most of the Second Amendment is not defined, like "the right to bear arms". When and where? Under what conditions? What does "bear" mean? And how is the Amendment completely related to the material conditions of the day?

Search for authoritative articles on the subject. Here's one article:
"The history of the Second Amendment is long and twisted; the Amendment itself has been subject to repeated scrutiny and elaboration, and the way in which it’s interpreted today is a relatively new way of understanding this statute written in the late 18th century.


It’s hard to understand exactly what’s at stake without a detailed look at why it was originally written, how it has been interpreted over the last two and a half centuries, and what it currently seems to imply."

The Second Amendment: A Complete History of the Right to Bear Arms

As a citizen of the United States, do I have the right to massacre a large group of my fellow citizens with my legally purchased AR-15? Of course not. However, over the last two decades, a number of individuals have done exactly that; the settings of each incident now existing infused with...

historycooperative.org

Here's another: The Second Amendment Does Not Transcend All Others


And another: The Forgotten Truth Of How Slavery Shaped The 2nd Amendment

The SCOTUS affirmed that bed wetting leftists are wrong about the 2A being a "collective right" and that congress or any state/local government can restrict the RKBA.

The COTUS also has no laws about MURDER, leaving it up to the PEOPLE in local governments to punish that crime as they see fit, as long as it is not in a cruel or unusual manner.

This was in a time where political whores were tarred and feathered, and I for one would like to see that standard revisited, because there would be no fucking democrooks left.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

GOOD JOB!

Another big talking point is the 2nd Amendment. It was written in vague terms intentionally. It was a concession to some who wanted such language in the Constitution. But there are other relevant and related parts of the Constitution.

Article I, Section 8 says "The Congress shall have Power ... To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;


To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress".

And Article II, Section 2 says "The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States"

That is completely different from what the right wing is trying to perpetrate on us today. And regarding the part that says "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed", that part is most vague since most of the Second Amendment is not defined, like "the right to bear arms". When and where? Under what conditions? What does "bear" mean? And how is the Amendment completely related to the material conditions of the day?

Search for authoritative articles on the subject. Here's one article:
"The history of the Second Amendment is long and twisted; the Amendment itself has been subject to repeated scrutiny and elaboration, and the way in which it’s interpreted today is a relatively new way of understanding this statute written in the late 18th century.


It’s hard to understand exactly what’s at stake without a detailed look at why it was originally written, how it has been interpreted over the last two and a half centuries, and what it currently seems to imply."

The Second Amendment: A Complete History of the Right to Bear Arms

As a citizen of the United States, do I have the right to massacre a large group of my fellow citizens with my legally purchased AR-15? Of course not. However, over the last two decades, a number of individuals have done exactly that; the settings of each incident now existing infused with...

historycooperative.org

Here's another: The Second Amendment Does Not Transcend All Others


And another: The Forgotten Truth Of How Slavery Shaped The 2nd Amendment

"The Right of The People", not the gov't and not the Militia.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Thread Closed. Read the rules! Opening Posts must contain your thoughts/comments about the subject. Posting a link or video is NOT enough to start a proper thread.

 

[flacaltenn]

And regarding the part that says "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed", that part is most vague since most of the Second Amendment is not defined, like "the right to bear arms". When and where? Under what conditions? What does "bear" mean? And how is the Amendment completely related to the material conditions of the day?

That Senter -- has been decided in the Sup Ct under numerous decisions. Like in the court language that the 2nd Amendment is an INDIVIDUAL right and that they've also recognized "personal defense" as an appropriate justification. WHERE did that come from? All the writings that were CONTEMPORARY with the writing of the Constitution and BofRights. ALL the debate is documented. And it's made very clear.

In the late 1700s a citizen could OWN a state of the art PIRATE ship with 6 or 8 cannons and be PAID by the Federal govt to go hunt down bad guys or pirates or aid the navy in blockades and interdictions. GO search the Constitution for "Letters of Marque and Reprisal"... It's there. I dont want a state of the Destroyer. I want to shoot for sport and protect my land, my property, and my family.. And if the POLICE have to call the squad with AR-15s to deal with criminals, it's my right to do the same.

Because we ALL observed the "police stand-down" during riots of 2020s. And that affected both rich and poor, white and POColor. Go argue with this guy. Try pinning him as a redneck yahoo with lust for violence.