Record heat in the southern hemisphere in a La Nina

[Anomalism]

Great! Then why do you keep bugging me about it? You just declared you have a perfect understanding of the Earth's climate combined with an exact, reliable model of our climate, so what do you need me for?

I have no preconceived bias regardless of what you think, so I go where the data takes me.

It should be a simple matter for you to sell me on your exact science then. Funny that I've been asking for that simple proof for --years-- and I'm still waiting to be convinced. Just SHOW me the data, don't give me some funky chart then try to tell me what it all means, believe me, I know how to interpret data.

You’re setting an impossible standard. There is no complex system in physics where the data just speaks for itself without interpretation, not in climate, not in astronomy, not in particle physics, not even in something as basic as measuring gravity. Raw data is just numbers until you apply physical laws to relate cause and effect. Satellites give radiance counts, Argo gives temperature profiles, ice cores give gas concentrations, and when you apply conservation of energy, radiative transfer, and thermodynamics, they all independently show the same thing; the planet is accumulating energy and CO2 is the dominant forcing. Your standard invalidates modern science, not just AGW claims.

 

[westwall]

Raw data and raw measurements are the same thing. Raw data is the direct output of instruments. That’s exactly what I gave you. What you’re trying to do now is redefine raw to mean “evidence that requires zero interpretation and feels intuitively obvious to me,” which is not a scientific standard.

You're not an honest skeptic. You're also, once again, obviously not a scientist.

You gave me an irrelevant data set. Like I said before, you are clueless when it comes to science and how scientists work.

 

[Anomalism]

You gave me an irrelevant data set. Like I said before, you are clueless when it comes to science and how scientists work.

Says the guy that doesn't understand basic dynamics that aren't contested by anybody educated.

Your ignorance isn't even confined to climate science. You denied basic principles of thermodynamics and fluid dynamics. You wouldn't pass a physics class at a community college.

 

[westwall]

Says the guy that doesn't understand basic dynamics that aren't contested by anybody educated.

Your ignorance isn't even confined to climate science. You denied basic principles of thermodynamics and fluid dynamics. You wouldn't pass a physics class at a community college.

I understand them quite well, I also understand why they don't apply. You are merely parroting things you fundamentally do not understand.

Makes sense, you bring religion in to everything.

 

[Anomalism]

I understand them quite well, I also understand why they don't apply. You are merely parroting things you fundamentally do not understand.

Makes sense, you bring religion in to everything.

No, you literally denied principles of dynamics that are not controversial. They aren't even exclusively related to climate change. You just don't understand how it works.

 

[westwall]

No, you literally denied principles of dynamics that are not controversial. They aren't even exclusively related to climate change. You just don't understand how it works.

No, you silly person, I said they don't apply, because they don't.

 

[Anomalism]

No, you silly person, I said they don't apply, because they don't.

The laws of fluid dynamics and thermodynamics don't stop applying just because they're inconvenient to your narrative.

 

[westwall]

The laws of fluid dynamics and thermodynamics don't stop applying just because they're inconvenient to your narrative.

They don't apply when they have nothing to act upon, you simpleton.

 

[Anomalism]

They don't apply when they have nothing to act upon, you simpleton.

They do, and I proved it with sources that you ignored.

You have yet to provide a source that shows basic dynamic principles don't apply to this situation. And you won't, because that source doesn't exist. You're not operating in reality.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The modern instrumental record goes back about 150-170 years for surface temperature, and about 45 years for full global satellite coverage. That’s short in geological terms, but it’s long enough to directly observe a statistically significant, global, physically coherent trend across independent systems.

Before instruments, we don’t guess. We use proxies, which are calibrated against the instrumental period. That’s how we know past changes happened more slowly and for known natural reasons. The instrumental record is what lets us say: this modern warming is real, global, and cannot be reproduced by natural forcings alone.

And I said.......

Faster than in the past 150 years? Wow!

DURR

Glad you agree.

That’s how we know past changes happened more slowly and for known natural reasons.

That's what you feel but can't prove.

 

[ding]

The modern instrumental record goes back about 150-170 years for surface temperature, and about 45 years for full global satellite coverage. That’s short in geological terms, but it’s long enough to directly observe a statistically significant, global, physically coherent trend across independent systems.

Before instruments, we don’t guess. We use proxies, which are calibrated against the instrumental period. That’s how we know past changes happened more slowly and for known natural reasons. The instrumental record is what lets us say: this modern warming is real, global, and cannot be reproduced by natural forcings alone.

Proxy temperature records don't have the resolution to make those kind of comparisons. But by inspection I can say your claim of unprecedented warming is false. Logically trigger points for abrupt glaciation and deglaciation would by definition have to be more severe. Take D-O events for example 5C swings up and down over a few decades.

 

[toobfreak]

You’re setting an impossible standard.

OK. Nuff said. If you cannot even meet the same standard as it would require to convict a man of a crime while basically accusing the whole world of a crime needing to pay massive penance for, I don't know what else to tell you. Get back to me when you can both prove your case that:

1. Earth's climate is being sent wildly out of kilter and will be by man's existence and activity.
2. That the danger is so imminent that we risk certain doom and must make draconian cuts and insane spending right now turning the whole world on its side rather than just wait another 50-75 years for technology to naturally catch up and our ability to thrive and grown does not include polluting the planet with harmful mining and GHG exhausts anywhere near the scale of today.

Until you can demonstrate that, you won't find me a willing participant in any panic.

 

[Old Rocks]

You gave me an irrelevant data set. Like I said before, you are clueless when it comes to science and how scientists work.

So says the fellow claiming a PhD in Geology, that calls the scientists in the AGU and GSA liars. Also seems to understand very little concerning the geology of the Western US. I really don't think Westwall has the background to understand what data is relevant.

 

[Old Rocks]

Proxy temperature records don't have the resolution to make those kind of comparisons. But by inspection I can say your claim of unprecedented warming is false. Logically trigger points for abrupt glaciation and deglaciation would by definition have to be more severe. Take D-O events for example 5C swings up and down over a few decades.

LOL There have been many times where there was an abrupt change. Like the Younger Dryas. But there was not a technologically advanced civilization with over 8 billion mouths to feed. But, given the stupidity of people like yourself, we are going to find out just how badly we have messed up our only home.

 

[ding]

LOL There have been many times where there was an abrupt change. Like the Younger Dryas. But there was not a technologically advanced civilization with over 8 billion mouths to feed. But, given the stupidity of people like yourself, we are going to find out just how badly we have messed up our only home.

So according to you, what is happening today is worse than any trigger event in the history of the planet?

 

[EMH]

Like the Younger Dryas.

The Younger Dryas was 11-12k years ago.

Younger Dryas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Each one of those years...

Greenland added another ice layer
Antarctica added another ice layer
North America lost ice, as there were still North American Ice Age glaciers a mile thick in Indiana 10k years ago that are no longer there...

Greenland's ice had yet to penetrate the mountain range over the Southern Tip.


The hysteria of "abrupt climate change" finally has a specified time, and absolutely nothing changed... and the planet did not warm or cool as a whole, it was continent specific, as two continent specific ice ages grew while one melted AT THE SAME TIME.

 

[westwall]

So says the fellow claiming a PhD in Geology, that calls the scientists in the AGU and GSA liars. Also seems to understand very little concerning the geology of the Western US. I really don't think Westwall has the background to understand what data is relevant.

Sure thing, silly girl. I've corrected you many times in the geology field.

 

[westwall]

LOL There have been many times where there was an abrupt change. Like the Younger Dryas. But there was not a technologically advanced civilization with over 8 billion mouths to feed. But, given the stupidity of people like yourself, we are going to find out just how badly we have messed up our only home.

So, you are claiming that all of a sudden, this ONE time it is mankind causing the climate, instead of it merely being a repeat of the thousands of previous times it was natural.

That sum your position up accurately?

 

[toobfreak]

So says the fellow claiming a PhD in Geology, that calls the scientists in the AGU and GSA liars.

If you think all professional institutions are free of politics and agendas, then I have some swamp land in Kansas I'd like to sell you. First thing you learn working for or at any university is that he who controls the money controls your funding, and he who controls your funding controls your research and findings.

Also seems to understand very little concerning the geology of the Western US. I really don't think Westwall has the background to understand what data is relevant.

Famous last words when arguments fail you is to try to attack the messenger.

 

[ReinyDays]

Famous last words when arguments fail you is to try to attack the messenger.

Attacking the person means they agree your claims are unassailable ...