Reason #2 " two state solution" is doa !

[proudveteran06]

Why the Palestinians Refuse to Recognize Israel as a Jewish State

The real reason for their refusal to recognize Israel as a Jewish country, however, is that the rais [chief], President Mahmoud Abbas, the man who claims to be the leader of the Palestinian people, has never abandoned the demand for the return of the Palestinians to "Palestine," that is, the entire State of Israel, so that it might be destroyed.

 

[montelatici]

Why the Palestinians Refuse to Recognize Israel as a Jewish State

The real reason for their refusal to recognize Israel as a Jewish country, however, is that the rais [chief], President Mahmoud Abbas, the man who claims to be the leader of the Palestinian people, has never abandoned the demand for the return of the Palestinians to "Palestine," that is, the entire State of Israel, so that it might be destroyed.

You expect people who have been expelled from their land and homes to agree that they acknowledge that they agree with having been robbed and expelled? Would you ask the Tibetans to announce that Tibet is Chinese or during Apartheid the blacks in South Africa to acknowledge that white-ruled South Africa was a Boer state.

 

[Phoenall]

Why the Palestinians Refuse to Recognize Israel as a Jewish State

The real reason for their refusal to recognize Israel as a Jewish country, however, is that the rais [chief], President Mahmoud Abbas, the man who claims to be the leader of the Palestinian people, has never abandoned the demand for the return of the Palestinians to "Palestine," that is, the entire State of Israel, so that it might be destroyed.

You expect people who have been expelled from their land and homes to agree that they acknowledge that they agree with having been robbed and expelled? Would you ask the Tibetans to announce that Tibet is Chinese or during Apartheid the blacks in South Africa to acknowledge that white-ruled South Africa was a Boer state.

Remember when the allies expelled "foreign nationals" from their countries during WW2. How many Germans, Italians, Japanese and Palestinians were expelled at that time. Don't see you complaining about those people. Nor do I see you complaining about the many millions of Jews expelled from their home nations before, during and after WW2. So why should they treated differently to the arab muslims and be demonised by ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDISTS

 

[Auldhippy]

There was no UN charter during WW2, there is now and Israel is signed up to it, This means that war,, no matter who starts it or who wins it, is not a legitimate means of land acquisition, it means that refugees who took no part in the conflict are entitled to return to their homes,

The occupation is illegal under the uN charter and under the Geneva Conventions 4th Protocal, which Israel are also signed up to, the transfer of populations to land occupied in war is expressly forbidden,

 

[proudveteran06]

Why the Palestinians Refuse to Recognize Israel as a Jewish State

The real reason for their refusal to recognize Israel as a Jewish country, however, is that the rais [chief], President Mahmoud Abbas, the man who claims to be the leader of the Palestinian people, has never abandoned the demand for the return of the Palestinians to "Palestine," that is, the entire State of Israel, so that it might be destroyed.

You expect people who have been expelled from their land and homes to agree that they acknowledge that they agree with having been robbed and expelled? Would you ask the Tibetans to announce that Tibet is Chinese or during Apartheid the blacks in South Africa to acknowledge that white-ruled South Africa was a Boer state.

The vast majority left on their own. Too bad you don't feel the same way about Jews who were expelled from Arab Lands. Those who were killed while having a " RIGHT" to be there in Hebron among other examples you racist hypocrite. Israel is NEVER going to be an annex to " Palestine," you racist fool.

 

[Phoenall]

There was no UN charter during WW2, there is now and Israel is signed up to it, This means that war,, no matter who starts it or who wins it, is not a legitimate means of land acquisition, it means that refugees who took no part in the conflict are entitled to return to their homes,

The occupation is illegal under the uN charter and under the Geneva Conventions 4th Protocal, which Israel are also signed up to, the transfer of populations to land occupied in war is expressly forbidden,

Then why hasn't the UN sent the troops in to expel the IDF. The fact is the UNGC has stated that the occupation is legal under the Geneva conventions and International Law. There has been no transfer of populations other than that allowed by UN res 242 and UN res 338 and the Oslo accords

 

[Auldhippy]

There is no legitimacy for Israel's expansion to be found at the UN. Else you'd be able to link to it.

 

[montelatici]

Why the Palestinians Refuse to Recognize Israel as a Jewish State

The real reason for their refusal to recognize Israel as a Jewish country, however, is that the rais [chief], President Mahmoud Abbas, the man who claims to be the leader of the Palestinian people, has never abandoned the demand for the return of the Palestinians to "Palestine," that is, the entire State of Israel, so that it might be destroyed.

You expect people who have been expelled from their land and homes to agree that they acknowledge that they agree with having been robbed and expelled? Would you ask the Tibetans to announce that Tibet is Chinese or during Apartheid the blacks in South Africa to acknowledge that white-ruled South Africa was a Boer state.

The vast majority left on their own. Too bad you don't feel the same way about Jews who were expelled from Arab Lands. Those who were killed while having a " RIGHT" to be there in Hebron among other examples you racist hypocrite. Israel is NEVER going to be an annex to " Palestine," you racist fool.

Not only are you a fool and a racist, you constantly repeat propaganda. There is plenty of source material from official Israeli sources that contradict the propaganda you are spouting such as "The vast majority left on their own."

A document was produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service called "The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947 – 1/6/1948" was dated 30 June 1948 and was declassified in the mid 80s.

The document listed the most important reasons the non-Jews fled, the top three were:

"1. Direct, hostile Jewish [ Haganah/IDF ] operations against Arab settlements.

2. The effect of our [Haganah/IDF] hostile operations against nearby [Arab] settlements... (... especially the fall of large neighbouring centers).

3. Operation of [Jewish] dissidents [ Irgun Tzvai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Yisrael]"

Remember, this is based on the analysis by Israeli Intelligence.

In summary:

"The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948". This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. "At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations." To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration". A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. "


Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

 

[Phoenall]

There is no legitimacy for Israel's expansion to be found at the UN. Else you'd be able to link to it.

I gave your the details of why the settlements are legal, up to you to find details that dispute INTERNATIONAL LAW of right of return

 

[Phoenall]

You expect people who have been expelled from their land and homes to agree that they acknowledge that they agree with having been robbed and expelled? Would you ask the Tibetans to announce that Tibet is Chinese or during Apartheid the blacks in South Africa to acknowledge that white-ruled South Africa was a Boer state.

The vast majority left on their own. Too bad you don't feel the same way about Jews who were expelled from Arab Lands. Those who were killed while having a " RIGHT" to be there in Hebron among other examples you racist hypocrite. Israel is NEVER going to be an annex to " Palestine," you racist fool.

Not only are you a fool and a racist, you constantly repeat propaganda. There is plenty of source material from official Israeli sources that contradict the propaganda you are spouting such as "The vast majority left on their own."

A document was produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service called "The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947 – 1/6/1948" was dated 30 June 1948 and was declassified in the mid 80s.

The document listed the most important reasons the non-Jews fled, the top three were:

"1. Direct, hostile Jewish [ Haganah/IDF ] operations against Arab settlements.

2. The effect of our [Haganah/IDF] hostile operations against nearby [Arab] settlements... (... especially the fall of large neighbouring centers).

3. Operation of [Jewish] dissidents [ Irgun Tzvai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Yisrael]"

Remember, this is based on the analysis by Israeli Intelligence.

In summary:

"The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948". This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. "At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations." To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration". A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. "


Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

So were did the extra 600,000 alleged Palestinian refugees come from then. You are either LYING about the numbers of refugees, LYING about illegal immigration or LYING about the real reasons behind the expulsions of state enemies.

 

[Auldhippy]

Perhaps the most frequent claim in the popular list is the exhortation by the Arab leadership by radio urging their followers to flee:[31][33][35][38] "On April 3, 1949, the Near East Broadcasting Station (Cyprus) said: “It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees' flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa and Jerusalem.” This was also cited by Cooke and Kimche in the "Spectator Correspondence",[13] for example (Cooke): "In the United States, long before ever going to Israel, I had heard it emphasized over and over - by Israeli diplomats and visiting officials, in public speeches and in interviews — that the flight of Palestine Arabs was caused by (radio) broadcast (Arab leadership) orders. No other form of order was even mentioned.[36] Erkine Childers and Walid Khalidi therefore checked archived transcripts of all Arab radio services monitored by the BBC and CIA in 1948, and discovered,

[Childers, from his research into the BBC archives of radio traffic monitoring from Cyprus in 1948]: "[T]here was not a single order, or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine from any Arab radio station, inside or outside Palestine, in 1948," and that to the contrary (Arab) broadcasts gave flat orders to civilians to stay put.

Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Auldhippy]

Same link

In the same "Spectator Correspondence", Walid Khalidi supported Childers when he wrote:[13]

"[Page 57]"There are, in fact, two monitoring collections for 1948: one compiled by the BBC, the other by the CIA, both from Cyprus. There is considerable overlapping between these collections but in the interests of “checking” and “rejection” they should be studied separately. Both collections give detailed daily coverage of broadcasts from Arab capitals and of such Zionist radios as Haganab Radio (in Hebrew, English, and Arabic); the Free Hebrew Station (Stern) and the Voice of Fighting Zion (Irgun). I was pleased to see that the researchers of Mr. Childers in the British Museum confirm my own findings. I can report now that the complete CIA collection here in Princeton also overwhelming[y confirms and elaborates the results that Mr. Childers and I have arrived at independently of one another. Briefly, these are the following: (1) There are countless broadcasts by Zionist radios which indicate deliberate psychological warfare against the Arabs. (2) There is not one single instance of an Arab evacuation order or a hint of such an order. (3) There is an impressive stream of explicit Arab orders to the Palestinian Arab civilians to hold their ground and remain in their towns and villages.

 

[montelatici]

The establishment of Israel through the expulsion of most of the Christians and Muslims from what is now Israel, was a crime. Israel has had to create myths to deflect attention from the fact that the creation of Israel was only made possible through the ethnic cleansing of most of the Christians and Muslims. Hence, all the propaganda. Unfortunately, as time goes by, more and more unimpeachable source documentation leaks out and the myths that the Israelis have tried to make the world believe are shown to be just that, myths. These days only Americans, and a declining number, believe the myths. The rest of the world is not so easily fooled.

 

[Auldhippy]

There is no legitimacy for Israel's expansion to be found at the UN. Else you'd be able to link to it.

I gave your the details of why the settlements are legal, up to you to find details that dispute INTERNATIONAL LAW of right of return

The settlements are illegal under the Geneva Conventions 4th Protocal forbidding the transfer of popultions to territories occupied in war:

Tomorrow, the 12th of August, marks the fiftieth anniversary of the adoption of the Geneva Conventions and Protocols. These instruments provide the basis for humanitarian law and establish, in part, rules to protect civilians of occupied territories and ensure their proper treatment. Israel ratified these conventions and protocols in 1951.

Israel has continuously evaded its responsibility to implement the Fourth Geneva Convention, the convention that deals most comprehensively with the obligations of an occupying power toward civilians in occupied territory. Israel argues that the occupied territory was not under another nation's sovereign control, which it contends is a prerequisite to application of the Convention. Israel's position is disputed universally, even by Israel's close friend the United States. The International Committee of the Red Cross, the organization charged with overseeing implementation of the Convention, also opposes Israel's position.

Since 1967, Israel has systematically violated significant provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention. These violations have been directed against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, including the territory of east Jerusalem annexed into Israel, and civilians in southern Lebanon.

The Israeli violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention include, in part, the following:

Systematic torture, in violation of articles 27, 31, 32, and 147.

Collective punishment, like demolition and sealing of houses and restrictions on movement, in violation of articles 33 and 53.

Prolonged closures that lead, for example, to loss of income from employment, without providing alternative sources of income for the residents, in violation of article 39.

Massive establishment of settlements of Israeli citizens in the occupied territory, in violation of articles 49 and 53.

Detention and imprisonment of residents of the occupied territory in prison facilities located within Israel, in violation of article 76.

Administrative detention of thousands of Palestinians for prolonged periods, grossly exceeding the provisions of article 78, in violation of article 49.

Revocation of residency rights in the occupied territory comprising East Jerusalem, in violation of article 47.

Expropriation and exploitation of the natural resources existing in the occupied territory to meet the needs of the occupying power, in violation of article 55.

B'Tselem cautions against further attempts by Israel and the Palestinian Authority to use provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention as bargaining chips during the peace process. According to the Convention, neither Israel nor the PA, as representative of the local, protected population, has any right to agree to any act that is not in full compliance with the Convention. Neither Israel nor the PA has any right to sacrifice human rights in the name of achieving peace.

On its part, B'Tselem will continue its fight to ensure strict compliance with all the provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention and protect human rights in the Occupied Territories.


The 50th Anniversary Of the Geneva Conventions | B'Tselem

 

[JakeStarkey]

montelatici and auldhippy:

Quit blowing kids up and talks can be serious.

If you continue as you have been and are doing now, the end is inevitable: Israeli Palestinians who are security threats and their families will be thrust forth from Greater Israel beyond the Jordan.

 

[Auldhippy]

The Israeli-occupied territories are the territories occupied by Israel during the Six-Day War of 1967 from Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. They consist of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem; much of the Golan Heights; the Gaza Strip, though Israel disputes this and argues that since the implementation of its disengagement from Gaza in 2005 it no longer occupies the territory; and, until 1982, the Sinai Peninsula. The West Bank and Gaza Strip are also referred to as the Palestinian territories or Occupied Palestinian Territory. The Palestinian Authority, the EU,[1] the International Court of Justice,[2] the UN General Assembly[3] and the UN Security Council[4] consider East Jerusalem to be part of the West Bank and occupied by Israel; Israel considers all of Jerusalem to be its capital and sovereign territory.

The International Court of Justice,[2] the UN General Assembly[3] and the United Nations Security Council regards Israel as the "Occupying Power".[5] UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk called Israel’s occupation “an affront to international law.”[6] The Israeli High Court of Justice has ruled that Israel holds the West Bank under "belligerent occupation".[7] According to Talia Sasson, the High Court of Justice in Israel, with a variety of different justices sitting, has repeatedly stated for more than 4 decades that Israel’s presence in the West Bank is in violation of international law.[8]

Israeli-occupied territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Auldhippy]

montelatici and auldhippy:

Quit blowing kids up and talks can be serious.

If you continue as you have been and are doing now, the end is inevitable: Israeli Palestinians who are security threats and their families will be thrust forth from Greater Israel beyond the Jordan.

Israel, with its smart weaponry has murdered TEN TIMES the number of children than the Palestinians can manage with their indiscriminate weaponry.

Statistics | B'Tselem

Please take the time to drill down the statistics, they detail each death, their age and what they were doing when murdered.

 

[RandomVariable]

The establishment of Israel through the expulsion of most of the Christians and Muslims from what is now Israel, was a crime. Israel has had to create myths to deflect attention from the fact that the creation of Israel was only made possible through the ethnic cleansing of most of the Christians and Muslims. Hence, all the propaganda. Unfortunately, as time goes by, more and more unimpeachable source documentation leaks out and the myths that the Israelis have tried to make the world believe are shown to be just that, myths. These days only Americans, and a declining number, believe the myths. The rest of the world is not so easily fooled.

Why aren't the surrounding countries more willing to take in Palestinians rather than insisting on pushing them back onto a land which has belonged to the Jews since 1948?

 

[Auldhippy]

The establishment of Israel through the expulsion of most of the Christians and Muslims from what is now Israel, was a crime. Israel has had to create myths to deflect attention from the fact that the creation of Israel was only made possible through the ethnic cleansing of most of the Christians and Muslims. Hence, all the propaganda. Unfortunately, as time goes by, more and more unimpeachable source documentation leaks out and the myths that the Israelis have tried to make the world believe are shown to be just that, myths. These days only Americans, and a declining number, believe the myths. The rest of the world is not so easily fooled.

Why aren't the surrounding countries more willing to take in Palestinians rather than insisting on pushing them back onto a land which has belonged to the Jews since 1948?

Because under international law refugees have a right to return to their own homes. Remember these were not participants in the conflict but refugees.

 

[RandomVariable]

The establishment of Israel through the expulsion of most of the Christians and Muslims from what is now Israel, was a crime. Israel has had to create myths to deflect attention from the fact that the creation of Israel was only made possible through the ethnic cleansing of most of the Christians and Muslims. Hence, all the propaganda. Unfortunately, as time goes by, more and more unimpeachable source documentation leaks out and the myths that the Israelis have tried to make the world believe are shown to be just that, myths. These days only Americans, and a declining number, believe the myths. The rest of the world is not so easily fooled.

Why aren't the surrounding countries more willing to take in Palestinians rather than insisting on pushing them back onto a land which has belonged to the Jews since 1948?

Because under international law refugees have a right to return to their own homes. Remember these were not participants in the conflict but refugees.

So for over 60 years these refugees suffer? The Arab nations have more than enough wealth to make the people perfectly happy live in peace and prosperity somewhere other than Israel. The only reason the Palestinians are suffering is because of the Arab nation's want for power and glory. And the Jewish and the Philistines could perfectly well live in harmony if it were not for those who feed on hate.