Reality and Morality

[MaxGrit]

God's standard is the only standard that matters because he's the ultimate Judge of all things.

That's a testimonial. Not evidence, reason, or logic.

Meaning that your argument only works if we already agree with you. If we don't, then you have nothing but your subjective beliefs.

Truth is always true.

 

[MaxGrit]

Morality comes from God. His perfect being enables us to know about what perfect morals are.

Perfect morals, huh? Okay, lets test that.

The Puritans killed gays and adulterers. The founders, only gays. Modern Christians, neither. Did God's 'morality' change? Or did the subjective interpretations of religion change? Obviously, its the latter.

See, that's the rub. God isn't here to tell us which interpretations are accurate and which aren't. We are the only ones making that call. Even assuming a 'perfect morality', we're the lens through which all religion is practiced. With nothing but our own subjective interpretations as a guide. Religious texts are thoroughly interpretable...with Mother Teresa and Grand Inquisitor Torquemada using the exact same book to come to wildly different conclusions.

So which subjective interpretation got that 'perfect morality right'? Which leads us to the second major problem:

Most religions are contradictory and mutually exclusive. Resulting in only three possible conclusions 1) God is inconsistent, telling different people different things. 2) All theists, save those following the one sect that correctly interpreted God's will are self deluded. 3) No one correctly interpreted God's will.

The first conclusion obliterates the idea of a 'perfect' morality. The second demonstrates that the likelihood of you having the 'perfect morality' is ridiculously low. And the third obliterates the idea that you know the perfect morality.

So at best, there's a ridiculously remote chance that you know what you're talking about. And a far greater likelihood that your conception of 'god's will' is self delusion.

Empathy is a part of morality, therefore morality cannot be based on empathy. Another way to put it is that you can only say that empathy is good because there already existed a moral standard to define good and bad.

That's a circular argument. As your evidence and your conclusion are the exact same thing.

You need to work on improving your reading comprehension and understanding of written material.

I wrote about how only God is perfect in being, therefore God alone has moral perfection.

 

[MaxGrit]

Christendom has had more than its share of atrocities.

Actually, i's lack of religion that is overwhelmingly the cause of murder and mayhem, death and oppression.

It is the biblical dictum stating that all men are created in God's image that served as the basis for abolition.

Let's get a sense of proportion here:

Before the Russian Revolution, the number of execution by the czarist government came to seventeen (17) per year, according to Solzhenitsyn. He pointed out that, in comparison, the Spanish Inquisition, at its height, destroyed 10 people per month.

a. But, during the revolutionary years 1918-1919, Lenin's Cheka executed, without trial, more than one thousand (1,000) people a month.
At the height of Stalin's terror, 1937-1938, tens of thousands of people were shot per month:more than 40,000 a month!
Solzhenitsyn, "Warning To The West."
Full text of Solzhenitsyn The Voice of Freedom


Remember this?
Even in the 19th century, as religious conviction waned, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’

That was the warning.

Actually, you hyper-religious crackpots need to learn the history of the tales and fables you have used to justify the atrocities committed in the name of your various cults.

Your goofy cut and paste slogans need to be revised to be factually correct: "when gawds exist in the minds of the ignorant and superstitious, then all manner of atrocities and perversions are permitted."

Atrocities committed by immoral atheists that lied about their beliefs in Christianity.

Like Hollie, many atheists are very stupid and ignorant. They pretend to appear knowledgeable but it's easy to tell from their garbage posts that they are stupid idiots.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Christendom has had more than its share of atrocities.

Actually, i's lack of religion that is overwhelmingly the cause of murder and mayhem, death and oppression.

It is the biblical dictum stating that all men are created in God's image that served as the basis for abolition.

Let's get a sense of proportion here:

Before the Russian Revolution, the number of execution by the czarist government came to seventeen (17) per year, according to Solzhenitsyn. He pointed out that, in comparison, the Spanish Inquisition, at its height, destroyed 10 people per month.

a. But, during the revolutionary years 1918-1919, Lenin's Cheka executed, without trial, more than one thousand (1,000) people a month.
At the height of Stalin's terror, 1937-1938, tens of thousands of people were shot per month:more than 40,000 a month!
Solzhenitsyn, "Warning To The West."
Full text of Solzhenitsyn The Voice of Freedom


Remember this?
Even in the 19th century, as religious conviction waned, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’

That was the warning.

Actually, you hyper-religious crackpots need to learn the history of the tales and fables you have used to justify the atrocities committed in the name of your various cults.

Your goofy cut and paste slogans need to be revised to be factually correct: "when gawds exist in the minds of the ignorant and superstitious, then all manner of atrocities and perversions are permitted."

So...you're both a liar and history-challenged?

"The total number of deaths estimated to lie at the feet of humanity's poor practice of Christianity is approximately 17 million.This number would include ancient wars, theCrusades, theInquisitions, various European wars during the Middle Ages, and witchcraft trials.

-- DEATHS ATTRIBUTED TO NON-CHRISTIANITY

Now let's look at the number of killings attributed to non-Christianity, including atheism and other anti-religious forces. To be conservative, we will limit the count of anti-religious killings to the last seventy years or so.

First, from the early 1930's to 1945,Hitler's Germanyexterminated6 millionJews and killed about9 millionChristians. Although Hitler was an occultist, he chose the swastika for Germany's emblem; a symbol ancient German Christians used (as did Buddhists). The swastika appeared in the brick work of an old boyhood school he attended of which he had fond memories ("The SS, Alibi of a Nation"by Gerald Reitlinger). But Hitler loathed Christianity as much as Judaism, as he stated in one of his shrill orations,

Historically speaking, the Christian religion is nothing but a Jewish sect... After the destruction of Judaism, the extinction of Christian slave morals must follow logically... We are fighting against the perversion of our soundest instincts. ...That poison with which both Jews and Christians have spoiled and soiled the free, wonderful instincts of man and lowered them to the level of doglike fright.3

Second, theStalin purgesin the Russian republics prior to and continuing after World War II killed roughly40 to 60 millionpeople; nearly wiping out every Christian church under Stalin's domain.2

Third, following World War II,Chinasaw to the end of more than24 million lives during the first ten years of Mao's takeover4, another25 millionkilled or intentionally starved between 1959 and 19625, plus an additional22 millionkillings in the 1970's Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution.6

Fourth,Cambodiasuffered more than2 millionkilled in its own bloody transition to anti-religious communism after United States forces suffered the fall of what was called Saigon and then largely withdrew from the region.

Fifth, the more recent rulerships withinEthiopia,Uganda,Rwanda,Sudan, andIraqhave each killed, systematically starved, or chemically or biologically poisonedhundreds of thousandsof their own citizens. It will likely be decades before full numbers are tallied for these ongoing situations. (Since some would argue these are attributable to Islam, I will omit them from the tally.)

And sixth, for those who acceptabortionas intentional killing (it clearly is, but the debate is over what is actually being killed), an additional30 million or more cases in the United States alone could be added to the number of irreligious killings (the estimate for the total number of abortions worldwide over the last century is approximatelyone billion).7

So to everyone familiar with the Bible's instructions for human conduct, it is obvious which actions throughout history have been truly representative of God and the Bible, and which have not. Any murder in the name of Christ is wrong. But as we have seen, the greatest acts of crime and killing havenotbeen instigated by people professing to follow Jesus. The numbers:

• Judaism and Christianity throughout history:17,000,000
• Anti- or irreligious forces over the last 100 years:

6,000,000 + 9,000,000 + 40,000,000 + 24,000,000 + 25,000,000 + 22,000,000 + 2,000,000 + 1,000,000,000 =1,128,000,000"
Isn t religion to blame for most of history s killings



In your face!

 

[Hollie]

Christendom has had more than its share of atrocities.

Actually, i's lack of religion that is overwhelmingly the cause of murder and mayhem, death and oppression.

It is the biblical dictum stating that all men are created in God's image that served as the basis for abolition.

Let's get a sense of proportion here:

Before the Russian Revolution, the number of execution by the czarist government came to seventeen (17) per year, according to Solzhenitsyn. He pointed out that, in comparison, the Spanish Inquisition, at its height, destroyed 10 people per month.

a. But, during the revolutionary years 1918-1919, Lenin's Cheka executed, without trial, more than one thousand (1,000) people a month.
At the height of Stalin's terror, 1937-1938, tens of thousands of people were shot per month:more than 40,000 a month!
Solzhenitsyn, "Warning To The West."
Full text of Solzhenitsyn The Voice of Freedom


Remember this?
Even in the 19th century, as religious conviction waned, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’

That was the warning.

Actually, you hyper-religious crackpots need to learn the history of the tales and fables you have used to justify the atrocities committed in the name of your various cults.

Your goofy cut and paste slogans need to be revised to be factually correct: "when gawds exist in the minds of the ignorant and superstitious, then all manner of atrocities and perversions are permitted."

So...you're both a liar and history-challenged?

"The total number of deaths estimated to lie at the feet of humanity's poor practice of Christianity is approximately 17 million.This number would include ancient wars, theCrusades, theInquisitions, various European wars during the Middle Ages, and witchcraft trials.

-- DEATHS ATTRIBUTED TO NON-CHRISTIANITY

Now let's look at the number of killings attributed to non-Christianity, including atheism and other anti-religious forces. To be conservative, we will limit the count of anti-religious killings to the last seventy years or so.

First, from the early 1930's to 1945,Hitler's Germanyexterminated6 millionJews and killed about9 millionChristians. Although Hitler was an occultist, he chose the swastika for Germany's emblem; a symbol ancient German Christians used (as did Buddhists). The swastika appeared in the brick work of an old boyhood school he attended of which he had fond memories ("The SS, Alibi of a Nation"by Gerald Reitlinger). But Hitler loathed Christianity as much as Judaism, as he stated in one of his shrill orations,

Historically speaking, the Christian religion is nothing but a Jewish sect... After the destruction of Judaism, the extinction of Christian slave morals must follow logically... We are fighting against the perversion of our soundest instincts. ...That poison with which both Jews and Christians have spoiled and soiled the free, wonderful instincts of man and lowered them to the level of doglike fright.3

Second, theStalin purgesin the Russian republics prior to and continuing after World War II killed roughly40 to 60 millionpeople; nearly wiping out every Christian church under Stalin's domain.2

Third, following World War II,Chinasaw to the end of more than24 million lives during the first ten years of Mao's takeover4, another25 millionkilled or intentionally starved between 1959 and 19625, plus an additional22 millionkillings in the 1970's Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution.6

Fourth,Cambodiasuffered more than2 millionkilled in its own bloody transition to anti-religious communism after United States forces suffered the fall of what was called Saigon and then largely withdrew from the region.

Fifth, the more recent rulerships withinEthiopia,Uganda,Rwanda,Sudan, andIraqhave each killed, systematically starved, or chemically or biologically poisonedhundreds of thousandsof their own citizens. It will likely be decades before full numbers are tallied for these ongoing situations. (Since some would argue these are attributable to Islam, I will omit them from the tally.)

And sixth, for those who acceptabortionas intentional killing (it clearly is, but the debate is over what is actually being killed), an additional30 million or more cases in the United States alone could be added to the number of irreligious killings (the estimate for the total number of abortions worldwide over the last century is approximatelyone billion).7

So to everyone familiar with the Bible's instructions for human conduct, it is obvious which actions throughout history have been truly representative of God and the Bible, and which have not. Any murder in the name of Christ is wrong. But as we have seen, the greatest acts of crime and killing havenotbeen instigated by people professing to follow Jesus. The numbers:

• Judaism and Christianity throughout history:17,000,000
• Anti- or irreligious forces over the last 100 years:

6,000,000 + 9,000,000 + 40,000,000 + 24,000,000 + 25,000,000 + 22,000,000 + 2,000,000 + 1,000,000,000 =1,128,000,000"
Isn t religion to blame for most of history s killings



In your face!

Lovely. Your usual copying and pasting from dubious sources would then mean that you religious cranks are just a bit less lethal to humanity than the psychopaths who fronted for political ideologies.

Good for you.... and your cutting and pasting.

"Hey. We slaughtered less people than Moa, Stalin and Hitler."

What a lovely endorsement.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Morality and science are BOTH the products of reason.

Morality is not delivered by God, is not arbitrary, does not represent a simple recipe to follow, and is not relativist according to culture. . Instead, it is a process by which human interactions are judged that takes into account not only the rights of both parties involved, but the needs of all people. It operates from a premise that some might label the golden rule, reasoned and and extrapolated from this basic assumption in such a way as to build logical arguments as to why various behaviors are moral in nature.

Simple people want simple answers. People with more complex minds want to understand WHY, and when discussing morality, if a person cannot discuss why something is moral, they really aren't dealing in morality but simply a finite system of rules they have learned and have not questioned.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Christendom has had more than its share of atrocities.

Actually, i's lack of religion that is overwhelmingly the cause of murder and mayhem, death and oppression.

It is the biblical dictum stating that all men are created in God's image that served as the basis for abolition.

Let's get a sense of proportion here:

Before the Russian Revolution, the number of execution by the czarist government came to seventeen (17) per year, according to Solzhenitsyn. He pointed out that, in comparison, the Spanish Inquisition, at its height, destroyed 10 people per month.

a. But, during the revolutionary years 1918-1919, Lenin's Cheka executed, without trial, more than one thousand (1,000) people a month.
At the height of Stalin's terror, 1937-1938, tens of thousands of people were shot per month:more than 40,000 a month!
Solzhenitsyn, "Warning To The West."
Full text of Solzhenitsyn The Voice of Freedom


Remember this?
Even in the 19th century, as religious conviction waned, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’

That was the warning.

Actually, you hyper-religious crackpots need to learn the history of the tales and fables you have used to justify the atrocities committed in the name of your various cults.

Your goofy cut and paste slogans need to be revised to be factually correct: "when gawds exist in the minds of the ignorant and superstitious, then all manner of atrocities and perversions are permitted."

So...you're both a liar and history-challenged?

"The total number of deaths estimated to lie at the feet of humanity's poor practice of Christianity is approximately 17 million.This number would include ancient wars, theCrusades, theInquisitions, various European wars during the Middle Ages, and witchcraft trials.

-- DEATHS ATTRIBUTED TO NON-CHRISTIANITY

Now let's look at the number of killings attributed to non-Christianity, including atheism and other anti-religious forces. To be conservative, we will limit the count of anti-religious killings to the last seventy years or so.

First, from the early 1930's to 1945,Hitler's Germanyexterminated6 millionJews and killed about9 millionChristians. Although Hitler was an occultist, he chose the swastika for Germany's emblem; a symbol ancient German Christians used (as did Buddhists). The swastika appeared in the brick work of an old boyhood school he attended of which he had fond memories ("The SS, Alibi of a Nation"by Gerald Reitlinger). But Hitler loathed Christianity as much as Judaism, as he stated in one of his shrill orations,

Historically speaking, the Christian religion is nothing but a Jewish sect... After the destruction of Judaism, the extinction of Christian slave morals must follow logically... We are fighting against the perversion of our soundest instincts. ...That poison with which both Jews and Christians have spoiled and soiled the free, wonderful instincts of man and lowered them to the level of doglike fright.3

Second, theStalin purgesin the Russian republics prior to and continuing after World War II killed roughly40 to 60 millionpeople; nearly wiping out every Christian church under Stalin's domain.2

Third, following World War II,Chinasaw to the end of more than24 million lives during the first ten years of Mao's takeover4, another25 millionkilled or intentionally starved between 1959 and 19625, plus an additional22 millionkillings in the 1970's Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution.6

Fourth,Cambodiasuffered more than2 millionkilled in its own bloody transition to anti-religious communism after United States forces suffered the fall of what was called Saigon and then largely withdrew from the region.

Fifth, the more recent rulerships withinEthiopia,Uganda,Rwanda,Sudan, andIraqhave each killed, systematically starved, or chemically or biologically poisonedhundreds of thousandsof their own citizens. It will likely be decades before full numbers are tallied for these ongoing situations. (Since some would argue these are attributable to Islam, I will omit them from the tally.)

And sixth, for those who acceptabortionas intentional killing (it clearly is, but the debate is over what is actually being killed), an additional30 million or more cases in the United States alone could be added to the number of irreligious killings (the estimate for the total number of abortions worldwide over the last century is approximatelyone billion).7

So to everyone familiar with the Bible's instructions for human conduct, it is obvious which actions throughout history have been truly representative of God and the Bible, and which have not. Any murder in the name of Christ is wrong. But as we have seen, the greatest acts of crime and killing havenotbeen instigated by people professing to follow Jesus. The numbers:

• Judaism and Christianity throughout history:17,000,000
• Anti- or irreligious forces over the last 100 years:

6,000,000 + 9,000,000 + 40,000,000 + 24,000,000 + 25,000,000 + 22,000,000 + 2,000,000 + 1,000,000,000 =1,128,000,000"
Isn t religion to blame for most of history s killings



In your face!

Lovely. Your usual copying and pasting from dubious sources would then mean that you religious cranks are just a bit less lethal to humanity than the psychopaths who fronted for political ideologies.

Good for you.... and your cutting and pasting.

"Hey. We slaughtered less people than Moa, Stalin and Hitler."

What a lovely endorsement.

What does 'copy and paste' mean?

Why would it be a pejorative?

 

[Skylar]

God's standard is the only standard that matters because he's the ultimate Judge of all things.

That's a testimonial. Not evidence, reason, or logic.

Meaning that your argument only works if we already agree with you. If we don't, then you have nothing but your subjective beliefs.

Truth is always true.

But how do you know what you believe is truth? After all, folks of other faiths who believe just as surely that they are right contradict you.

Is God telling them some other 'truth'? Or are they merely delusional? And if they latter.....what distinguishes delusional religious faith from accurate religious faith....and how would you know the difference?

 

[Hollie]

Christendom has had more than its share of atrocities.

Actually, i's lack of religion that is overwhelmingly the cause of murder and mayhem, death and oppression.

It is the biblical dictum stating that all men are created in God's image that served as the basis for abolition.

Let's get a sense of proportion here:

Before the Russian Revolution, the number of execution by the czarist government came to seventeen (17) per year, according to Solzhenitsyn. He pointed out that, in comparison, the Spanish Inquisition, at its height, destroyed 10 people per month.

a. But, during the revolutionary years 1918-1919, Lenin's Cheka executed, without trial, more than one thousand (1,000) people a month.
At the height of Stalin's terror, 1937-1938, tens of thousands of people were shot per month:more than 40,000 a month!
Solzhenitsyn, "Warning To The West."
Full text of Solzhenitsyn The Voice of Freedom


Remember this?
Even in the 19th century, as religious conviction waned, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’

That was the warning.

Actually, you hyper-religious crackpots need to learn the history of the tales and fables you have used to justify the atrocities committed in the name of your various cults.

Your goofy cut and paste slogans need to be revised to be factually correct: "when gawds exist in the minds of the ignorant and superstitious, then all manner of atrocities and perversions are permitted."

So...you're both a liar and history-challenged?

"The total number of deaths estimated to lie at the feet of humanity's poor practice of Christianity is approximately 17 million.This number would include ancient wars, theCrusades, theInquisitions, various European wars during the Middle Ages, and witchcraft trials.

-- DEATHS ATTRIBUTED TO NON-CHRISTIANITY

Now let's look at the number of killings attributed to non-Christianity, including atheism and other anti-religious forces. To be conservative, we will limit the count of anti-religious killings to the last seventy years or so.

First, from the early 1930's to 1945,Hitler's Germanyexterminated6 millionJews and killed about9 millionChristians. Although Hitler was an occultist, he chose the swastika for Germany's emblem; a symbol ancient German Christians used (as did Buddhists). The swastika appeared in the brick work of an old boyhood school he attended of which he had fond memories ("The SS, Alibi of a Nation"by Gerald Reitlinger). But Hitler loathed Christianity as much as Judaism, as he stated in one of his shrill orations,

Historically speaking, the Christian religion is nothing but a Jewish sect... After the destruction of Judaism, the extinction of Christian slave morals must follow logically... We are fighting against the perversion of our soundest instincts. ...That poison with which both Jews and Christians have spoiled and soiled the free, wonderful instincts of man and lowered them to the level of doglike fright.3

Second, theStalin purgesin the Russian republics prior to and continuing after World War II killed roughly40 to 60 millionpeople; nearly wiping out every Christian church under Stalin's domain.2

Third, following World War II,Chinasaw to the end of more than24 million lives during the first ten years of Mao's takeover4, another25 millionkilled or intentionally starved between 1959 and 19625, plus an additional22 millionkillings in the 1970's Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution.6

Fourth,Cambodiasuffered more than2 millionkilled in its own bloody transition to anti-religious communism after United States forces suffered the fall of what was called Saigon and then largely withdrew from the region.

Fifth, the more recent rulerships withinEthiopia,Uganda,Rwanda,Sudan, andIraqhave each killed, systematically starved, or chemically or biologically poisonedhundreds of thousandsof their own citizens. It will likely be decades before full numbers are tallied for these ongoing situations. (Since some would argue these are attributable to Islam, I will omit them from the tally.)

And sixth, for those who acceptabortionas intentional killing (it clearly is, but the debate is over what is actually being killed), an additional30 million or more cases in the United States alone could be added to the number of irreligious killings (the estimate for the total number of abortions worldwide over the last century is approximatelyone billion).7

So to everyone familiar with the Bible's instructions for human conduct, it is obvious which actions throughout history have been truly representative of God and the Bible, and which have not. Any murder in the name of Christ is wrong. But as we have seen, the greatest acts of crime and killing havenotbeen instigated by people professing to follow Jesus. The numbers:

• Judaism and Christianity throughout history:17,000,000
• Anti- or irreligious forces over the last 100 years:

6,000,000 + 9,000,000 + 40,000,000 + 24,000,000 + 25,000,000 + 22,000,000 + 2,000,000 + 1,000,000,000 =1,128,000,000"
Isn t religion to blame for most of history s killings



In your face!

Lovely. Your usual copying and pasting from dubious sources would then mean that you religious cranks are just a bit less lethal to humanity than the psychopaths who fronted for political ideologies.

Good for you.... and your cutting and pasting.

"Hey. We slaughtered less people than Moa, Stalin and Hitler."

What a lovely endorsement.

What does 'copy and paste' mean?

Why would it be a pejorative?

Try and be honest with others even if not with yourself.

The entirety of your posts are copy and paste including that pointless and biased copy and paste nonsense link wherein you hoped to minimize the damage to humanity caused by religion and specifically christianity.

Did you really think that hoping to portray religion, and in particular, the damage done by christianity to humankind as less lethal than a collection of sociopaths was somehow an endorsement of religion?

You so crazy.

 

[PoliticalChic]

God's standard is the only standard that matters because he's the ultimate Judge of all things.

That's a testimonial. Not evidence, reason, or logic.

Meaning that your argument only works if we already agree with you. If we don't, then you have nothing but your subjective beliefs.

Truth is always true.

But how do you know what you believe is truth? After all, folks of other faiths who believe just as surely that they are right contradict you.

Is God telling them some other 'truth'? Or are they merely delusional? And if they latter.....what distinguishes delusional religious faith from accurate religious faith....and how would you know the difference?

God's greatest gift to mankind: free will.

 

[Skylar]

Christendom has had more than its share of atrocities.

Actually, i's lack of religion that is overwhelmingly the cause of murder and mayhem, death and oppression.

It is the biblical dictum stating that all men are created in God's image that served as the basis for abolition.

Let's get a sense of proportion here:

Before the Russian Revolution, the number of execution by the czarist government came to seventeen (17) per year, according to Solzhenitsyn. He pointed out that, in comparison, the Spanish Inquisition, at its height, destroyed 10 people per month.

a. But, during the revolutionary years 1918-1919, Lenin's Cheka executed, without trial, more than one thousand (1,000) people a month.
At the height of Stalin's terror, 1937-1938, tens of thousands of people were shot per month:more than 40,000 a month!
Solzhenitsyn, "Warning To The West."
Full text of Solzhenitsyn The Voice of Freedom


Remember this?
Even in the 19th century, as religious conviction waned, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’

That was the warning.

Actually, you hyper-religious crackpots need to learn the history of the tales and fables you have used to justify the atrocities committed in the name of your various cults.

Your goofy cut and paste slogans need to be revised to be factually correct: "when gawds exist in the minds of the ignorant and superstitious, then all manner of atrocities and perversions are permitted."

So...you're both a liar and history-challenged?

"The total number of deaths estimated to lie at the feet of humanity's poor practice of Christianity is approximately 17 million.This number would include ancient wars, theCrusades, theInquisitions, various European wars during the Middle Ages, and witchcraft trials.

-- DEATHS ATTRIBUTED TO NON-CHRISTIANITY

Now let's look at the number of killings attributed to non-Christianity, including atheism and other anti-religious forces. To be conservative, we will limit the count of anti-religious killings to the last seventy years or so.

First, from the early 1930's to 1945,Hitler's Germanyexterminated6 millionJews and killed about9 millionChristians. Although Hitler was an occultist, he chose the swastika for Germany's emblem; a symbol ancient German Christians used (as did Buddhists). The swastika appeared in the brick work of an old boyhood school he attended of which he had fond memories ("The SS, Alibi of a Nation"by Gerald Reitlinger). But Hitler loathed Christianity as much as Judaism, as he stated in one of his shrill orations,

Historically speaking, the Christian religion is nothing but a Jewish sect... After the destruction of Judaism, the extinction of Christian slave morals must follow logically... We are fighting against the perversion of our soundest instincts. ...That poison with which both Jews and Christians have spoiled and soiled the free, wonderful instincts of man and lowered them to the level of doglike fright.3

Second, theStalin purgesin the Russian republics prior to and continuing after World War II killed roughly40 to 60 millionpeople; nearly wiping out every Christian church under Stalin's domain.2

Third, following World War II,Chinasaw to the end of more than24 million lives during the first ten years of Mao's takeover4, another25 millionkilled or intentionally starved between 1959 and 19625, plus an additional22 millionkillings in the 1970's Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution.6

Fourth,Cambodiasuffered more than2 millionkilled in its own bloody transition to anti-religious communism after United States forces suffered the fall of what was called Saigon and then largely withdrew from the region.

Fifth, the more recent rulerships withinEthiopia,Uganda,Rwanda,Sudan, andIraqhave each killed, systematically starved, or chemically or biologically poisonedhundreds of thousandsof their own citizens. It will likely be decades before full numbers are tallied for these ongoing situations. (Since some would argue these are attributable to Islam, I will omit them from the tally.)

And sixth, for those who acceptabortionas intentional killing (it clearly is, but the debate is over what is actually being killed), an additional30 million or more cases in the United States alone could be added to the number of irreligious killings (the estimate for the total number of abortions worldwide over the last century is approximatelyone billion).7

So to everyone familiar with the Bible's instructions for human conduct, it is obvious which actions throughout history have been truly representative of God and the Bible, and which have not. Any murder in the name of Christ is wrong. But as we have seen, the greatest acts of crime and killing havenotbeen instigated by people professing to follow Jesus. The numbers:

• Judaism and Christianity throughout history:17,000,000
• Anti- or irreligious forces over the last 100 years:

6,000,000 + 9,000,000 + 40,000,000 + 24,000,000 + 25,000,000 + 22,000,000 + 2,000,000 + 1,000,000,000 =1,128,000,000"
Isn t religion to blame for most of history s killings



In your face!

Lovely. Your usual copying and pasting from dubious sources would then mean that you religious cranks are just a bit less lethal to humanity than the psychopaths who fronted for political ideologies.

Good for you.... and your cutting and pasting.

"Hey. We slaughtered less people than Moa, Stalin and Hitler."

What a lovely endorsement.

That's what Politichic does. She doesn't really have much to say on any given topic. Nor can she reason her way around her own arguments or answer any questions about her claims.

But she can block post like its going out of style.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Actually, i's lack of religion that is overwhelmingly the cause of murder and mayhem, death and oppression.

It is the biblical dictum stating that all men are created in God's image that served as the basis for abolition.

Let's get a sense of proportion here:

Before the Russian Revolution, the number of execution by the czarist government came to seventeen (17) per year, according to Solzhenitsyn. He pointed out that, in comparison, the Spanish Inquisition, at its height, destroyed 10 people per month.

a. But, during the revolutionary years 1918-1919, Lenin's Cheka executed, without trial, more than one thousand (1,000) people a month.
At the height of Stalin's terror, 1937-1938, tens of thousands of people were shot per month:more than 40,000 a month!
Solzhenitsyn, "Warning To The West."
Full text of Solzhenitsyn The Voice of Freedom


Remember this?
Even in the 19th century, as religious conviction waned, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’

That was the warning.

Actually, you hyper-religious crackpots need to learn the history of the tales and fables you have used to justify the atrocities committed in the name of your various cults.

Your goofy cut and paste slogans need to be revised to be factually correct: "when gawds exist in the minds of the ignorant and superstitious, then all manner of atrocities and perversions are permitted."

So...you're both a liar and history-challenged?

"The total number of deaths estimated to lie at the feet of humanity's poor practice of Christianity is approximately 17 million.This number would include ancient wars, theCrusades, theInquisitions, various European wars during the Middle Ages, and witchcraft trials.

-- DEATHS ATTRIBUTED TO NON-CHRISTIANITY

Now let's look at the number of killings attributed to non-Christianity, including atheism and other anti-religious forces. To be conservative, we will limit the count of anti-religious killings to the last seventy years or so.

First, from the early 1930's to 1945,Hitler's Germanyexterminated6 millionJews and killed about9 millionChristians. Although Hitler was an occultist, he chose the swastika for Germany's emblem; a symbol ancient German Christians used (as did Buddhists). The swastika appeared in the brick work of an old boyhood school he attended of which he had fond memories ("The SS, Alibi of a Nation"by Gerald Reitlinger). But Hitler loathed Christianity as much as Judaism, as he stated in one of his shrill orations,

Historically speaking, the Christian religion is nothing but a Jewish sect... After the destruction of Judaism, the extinction of Christian slave morals must follow logically... We are fighting against the perversion of our soundest instincts. ...That poison with which both Jews and Christians have spoiled and soiled the free, wonderful instincts of man and lowered them to the level of doglike fright.3

Second, theStalin purgesin the Russian republics prior to and continuing after World War II killed roughly40 to 60 millionpeople; nearly wiping out every Christian church under Stalin's domain.2

Third, following World War II,Chinasaw to the end of more than24 million lives during the first ten years of Mao's takeover4, another25 millionkilled or intentionally starved between 1959 and 19625, plus an additional22 millionkillings in the 1970's Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution.6

Fourth,Cambodiasuffered more than2 millionkilled in its own bloody transition to anti-religious communism after United States forces suffered the fall of what was called Saigon and then largely withdrew from the region.

Fifth, the more recent rulerships withinEthiopia,Uganda,Rwanda,Sudan, andIraqhave each killed, systematically starved, or chemically or biologically poisonedhundreds of thousandsof their own citizens. It will likely be decades before full numbers are tallied for these ongoing situations. (Since some would argue these are attributable to Islam, I will omit them from the tally.)

And sixth, for those who acceptabortionas intentional killing (it clearly is, but the debate is over what is actually being killed), an additional30 million or more cases in the United States alone could be added to the number of irreligious killings (the estimate for the total number of abortions worldwide over the last century is approximatelyone billion).7

So to everyone familiar with the Bible's instructions for human conduct, it is obvious which actions throughout history have been truly representative of God and the Bible, and which have not. Any murder in the name of Christ is wrong. But as we have seen, the greatest acts of crime and killing havenotbeen instigated by people professing to follow Jesus. The numbers:

• Judaism and Christianity throughout history:17,000,000
• Anti- or irreligious forces over the last 100 years:

6,000,000 + 9,000,000 + 40,000,000 + 24,000,000 + 25,000,000 + 22,000,000 + 2,000,000 + 1,000,000,000 =1,128,000,000"
Isn t religion to blame for most of history s killings



In your face!

Lovely. Your usual copying and pasting from dubious sources would then mean that you religious cranks are just a bit less lethal to humanity than the psychopaths who fronted for political ideologies.

Good for you.... and your cutting and pasting.

"Hey. We slaughtered less people than Moa, Stalin and Hitler."

What a lovely endorsement.

What does 'copy and paste' mean?

Why would it be a pejorative?

Try and be honest with others even if not with yourself.

The entirety of your posts are copy and paste including that pointless and biased copy and paste nonsense link wherein you hoped to minimize the damage to humanity caused by religion and specifically christianity.

Did you really think that hoping to portray religion, and in particular, the damage done by christianity to humankind as less lethal than a collection of sociopaths was somehow an endorsement of religion?

You so crazy.

What does 'copy and paste' mean?

Why would it be a pejorative?

 

[Skylar]

God's standard is the only standard that matters because he's the ultimate Judge of all things.

That's a testimonial. Not evidence, reason, or logic.

Meaning that your argument only works if we already agree with you. If we don't, then you have nothing but your subjective beliefs.

Truth is always true.

But how do you know what you believe is truth? After all, folks of other faiths who believe just as surely that they are right contradict you.

Is God telling them some other 'truth'? Or are they merely delusional? And if they latter.....what distinguishes delusional religious faith from accurate religious faith....and how would you know the difference?

God's greatest gift to mankind: free will.

So if you can choose to believe....anything..... it must be truth, because God gave us free will?

OR was your answer a complete and utter non-sequiter not even remotely related to my question?

 

[Skylar]

What does 'copy and paste' mean?

Let wikipedia be your guide:

Cut copy and paste - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Why would it be a pejorative?

Because you're not actually reasoning. You're parroting.

 

[Hollie]

God's standard is the only standard that matters because he's the ultimate Judge of all things.

That's a testimonial. Not evidence, reason, or logic.

Meaning that your argument only works if we already agree with you. If we don't, then you have nothing but your subjective beliefs.

Truth is always true.

But how do you know what you believe is truth? After all, folks of other faiths who believe just as surely that they are right contradict you.

Is God telling them some other 'truth'? Or are they merely delusional? And if they latter.....what distinguishes delusional religious faith from accurate religious faith....and how would you know the difference?

God's greatest gift to mankind: free will.

Free will has nothing to do with the gawds. Besides, you just removed the omniscience attribute that humans have ascribed to the gawds they create.

Why do you confound your conceptions of gawds by assigning them contradictory and mutually exclusive attributes?

Note that the above is not an invitation to copy and paste half the contents of the web.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What does 'copy and paste' mean?

Let wikipedia be your guide:

Cut copy and paste - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Why would it be a pejorative?

Because you're not actually reasoning. You're parroting.

I'll go with Cornell:

1. Citing an authority with an established reputation is better, of course, than citing someone whose credentials are not so lofty. (http://www.ccc.commnet.edu/mla/practical_guide.shtml)

2. What has been pejoratively referred to as ‘simply cut and paste,’ is, in fact, carefully chosen to substantiate a point. Is the information covered fact, opinion, or propaganda? Facts can usually be verified; opinions, though they may be based on factual information, evolve from the interpretation of facts.(Critical Appraisal and Analysis - Critically Analyzing Information Sources - LibGuides at Cornell University


Consider yourself educated by the above.

 

[Skylar]

Morality and science are BOTH the products of reason.

Morality is not delivered by God, is not arbitrary, does not represent a simple recipe to follow, and is not relativist according to culture.

On that last one, I have to disagree. Cultural perspective had significant influence on a given culture's understanding of morality. A 'universal morality' is like finding the 'center of the universe'. Its the center from the perspective of each observer.

. Instead, it is a process by which human interactions are judged that takes into account not only the rights of both parties involved, but the needs of all people.

But human intelligence doesn't always come to the same conclusions. If from nothing more than issues of priority and definition. Take....abortion. You have two competing interests. The potential for life of the fetus. And the right to choose of the mother. Which is more important?

Different people come to different answers depending on what they prioritize or the definitions they choose to use.

There are all sorts of moral arguments that fall into the same category, where competing interests mandate the weighing of one need against another. And the value of each need is pretty subjective.

 

[Hollie]

What does 'copy and paste' mean?

Let wikipedia be your guide:

Cut copy and paste - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Why would it be a pejorative?

Because you're not actually reasoning. You're parroting.

I'll go with Cornell:

1. Citing an authority with an established reputation is better, of course, than citing someone whose credentials are not so lofty. (http://www.ccc.commnet.edu/mla/practical_guide.shtml)

2. What has been pejoratively referred to as ‘simply cut and paste,’ is, in fact, carefully chosen to substantiate a point. Is the information covered fact, opinion, or propaganda? Facts can usually be verified; opinions, though they may be based on factual information, evolve from the interpretation of facts.(Critical Appraisal and Analysis - Critically Analyzing Information Sources - LibGuides at Cornell University


Consider yourself educated by the above.

So, you were able to copy and paste a definition of copy and paste.

That makes you, rather, pointless, right?

 

[PoliticalChic]

God's standard is the only standard that matters because he's the ultimate Judge of all things.

That's a testimonial. Not evidence, reason, or logic.

Meaning that your argument only works if we already agree with you. If we don't, then you have nothing but your subjective beliefs.

Truth is always true.

But how do you know what you believe is truth? After all, folks of other faiths who believe just as surely that they are right contradict you.

Is God telling them some other 'truth'? Or are they merely delusional? And if they latter.....what distinguishes delusional religious faith from accurate religious faith....and how would you know the difference?

God's greatest gift to mankind: free will.

So if you can choose to believe....anything..... it must be truth, because God gave us free will?

OR was your answer a complete and utter non-sequiter not even remotely related to my question?

"So if you can choose to believe....anything..... it must be truth, because God gave us free will?"

That plus God's second most important gift, the one pictured on the ceiling of the Sistine chapel.....

The cloak on which God sits is in the shape of a cerebrum.

Intelligence.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What does 'copy and paste' mean?

Let wikipedia be your guide:

Cut copy and paste - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Why would it be a pejorative?

Because you're not actually reasoning. You're parroting.

I'll go with Cornell:

1. Citing an authority with an established reputation is better, of course, than citing someone whose credentials are not so lofty. (http://www.ccc.commnet.edu/mla/practical_guide.shtml)

2. What has been pejoratively referred to as ‘simply cut and paste,’ is, in fact, carefully chosen to substantiate a point. Is the information covered fact, opinion, or propaganda? Facts can usually be verified; opinions, though they may be based on factual information, evolve from the interpretation of facts.(Critical Appraisal and Analysis - Critically Analyzing Information Sources - LibGuides at Cornell University


Consider yourself educated by the above.

So, you were able to copy and paste a definition of copy and paste.

That makes you, rather, pointless, right?

It was efficacious for putting you in your place again.