Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

[Jroc]

Who let this thread get drailed by thte conspiracy nutjobs?...off topic, wrong room

too predicatable as always.,when the paid zionist shill is cornered by pesky facts and evidence he cant refute,he evades them running off like the chikenshit coward he is.

Wrong room.... All your bull has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Who let this thread get drailed by thte conspiracy nutjobs?...off topic, wrong room

too predicatable as always.,when the paid zionist shill is cornered by pesky facts and evidence he cant refute,he evades them running off like the chikenshit coward he is.

Wrong room.... All your bull has nothing to do with the nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

run coward run.

oh by the way paid zionst shill,you might tell that to your fellow trolls who brought up lies about JFK after I shot down crusader retards lies in his avatar that reagan was the last real president we had.

I merely defended jfk against the lies of you trolls that he was never going to pull out of vietnam and proved that unlike reagan-the SUBJECT of this thread,JFK was not evil like he was.

you trolls started it,you just cant finish it cause you know you lost the debate and are too much of a bunch of arrogant fucks to admit you did so like the chickenshot cowards you all are knowing you can hide behind a computer,you are left to throw insults knowing you cant refute the facts and cant face the truth that you all dont know what you are talking about.congrats on displaying your hypocrisy.


the ones that have come on here and told the TRUTH about how corrupt reagan was,are the only ones who understand our REAL history and whats going on in the world.

that being said zionist shill.my ignore list grows larger now.have fun meeting it.

you all prove you are trolls in the fact you refuse to answer ONE SIMPLE QUESTION i have askedd over a hundred times just coming back with childish insults when i ask it.pathetic.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Some people glorify dead Presidents the way old people glorify "the good old days". They like to remember the good stuff and convenietly forget or ignore the bad stuff. Lib's have Kennedy and con's have Reagan. Some folks just feel comfortable living in imaginary thoughts and dreams.

Results are results

REAGAN’S ECONOMIC SUCCESS
Reagan conservative policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history:
•20 million new jobs were created.
•Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.
•The top income tax rate was cut from 70% to 28%.
•The Reagan Recovery took off once the tax rate cuts were fully phased in.
•Total federal spending declined to 21.2% of GDP in 1989 (even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War.)
•Eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%.
•Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989 (meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just 7 years.)
•The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak.
•The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990 (a larger increase than in any previous decade.)
•The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990 (when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it.)
•During this 7-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third (equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany to the U.S. economy.)
•In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years.
•The inflation from 1980 (in the Carter era) was reduced from 13.5% to 3.2% by 1983.
(The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.)
•The Reagan Recovery kicked off a historic 25-year economic boom (with short recessions in 1990 and 2001.)
•The period from 1982 to 2007 is the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. In 1980, the net worth–assets minus liabilities–of all U.S. households and business was $25 trillion in today’s dollars. By 2007, net worth was just shy of $57 trillion. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the 25-year boom than in the previous two hundred years.

propaganda results. as always,thanks for displaying your a hypocrite. I love how you reaganuts worship the NET as the truth. thanks for displaying your hypocrisy.

only problem with your lies zionest agent,is the book that dante referred you trolls to at the very beginning of this thread sets the record straight and counters your lies you came up with on the net with ACTUAL SOURCES THE AUTHOR USES FROM THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA BACK THEN. actual mainstream media reports published from back then in the 80's in his footnotes which prove that all that you just posted is pure bullshit and lies. you lose.

you reaganut trolls of course wont read that book and look at the evidence from back then published because your too arrogant to admit you have been proven wrong.

sorry but actual sources printed back in the 80's talking about the recession and how reagan shipped jobs overseas counters your lies posted on the NET you worship.


you lose loser.

 

[Jroc]

Some people glorify dead Presidents the way old people glorify "the good old days". They like to remember the good stuff and convenietly forget or ignore the bad stuff. Lib's have Kennedy and con's have Reagan. Some folks just feel comfortable living in imaginary thoughts and dreams.

Results are results

REAGAN’S ECONOMIC SUCCESS
Reagan conservative policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history:
•20 million new jobs were created.
•Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.
•The top income tax rate was cut from 70% to 28%.
•The Reagan Recovery took off once the tax rate cuts were fully phased in.
•Total federal spending declined to 21.2% of GDP in 1989 (even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War.)
•Eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%.
•Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989 (meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just 7 years.)
•The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak.
•The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990 (a larger increase than in any previous decade.)
•The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990 (when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it.)
•During this 7-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third (equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany to the U.S. economy.)
•In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years.
•The inflation from 1980 (in the Carter era) was reduced from 13.5% to 3.2% by 1983.
(The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.)
•The Reagan Recovery kicked off a historic 25-year economic boom (with short recessions in 1990 and 2001.)
•The period from 1982 to 2007 is the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. In 1980, the net worth–assets minus liabilities–of all U.S. households and business was $25 trillion in today’s dollars. By 2007, net worth was just shy of $57 trillion. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the 25-year boom than in the previous two hundred years.

propaganda results. as always,thanks for displaying your a hypocrite. I love how you reaganuts worship the NET as the truth. thanks for displaying your hypocrisy.

only problem with your lies zionest agent,is the book that dante referred you trolls to at the very beginning of this thread sets the record straight and counters your lies you came up with on the net with ACTUAL SOURCES THE AUTHOR USES FROM THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA BACK THEN. actual mainstream media reports published from back then in the 80's in his footnotes which prove that all that you just posted is pure bullshit and lies. you lose.

you reaganut trolls of course wont read that book and look at the evidence from back then published because your too arrogant to admit you have been proven wrong.

sorry but actual sources printed back in the 80's talking about the recession and how reagan shipped jobs overseas counters your lies posted on the NET you worship.


you lose loser.

Refute the numbers loon, or go back to your Kenedy conspriacy thoeries in the alternet universe that you live in in your basement

 

[Oldstyle]

I've had others try to make the same argument about JFK...citing the same Kennedy request to plan for the withdrawing of US troops. What people like 9/11 never seem to grasp is that governments plan for many different contingencies...Kennedy believing the conflict was being resolved with the communists on the losing side asked for a plan to withdraw troops. Then he came to realize that things were NOT going as well as he'd been led to believe and the talk turned to what would be the best way to shore up South Vietnam. Simply because there was a plan for a withdraw of US troops doesn't mean Kennedy made that call.

 

[Jroc]

I've had others try to make the same argument about JFK...citing the same Kennedy request to plan for the withdrawing of US troops. What people like 9/11 never seem to grasp is that governments plan for many different contingencies...Kennedy believing the conflict was being resolved with the communists on the losing side asked for a plan to withdraw troops. Then he came to realize that things were NOT going as well as he'd been led to believe and the talk turned to what would be the best way to shore up South Vietnam. Simply because there was a plan for a withdraw of US troops doesn't mean Kennedy made that call.

So whats that have to do with Reagan?

 

[Camp]

I've had others try to make the same argument about JFK...citing the same Kennedy request to plan for the withdrawing of US troops. What people like 9/11 never seem to grasp is that governments plan for many different contingencies...Kennedy believing the conflict was being resolved with the communists on the losing side asked for a plan to withdraw troops. Then he came to realize that things were NOT going as well as he'd been led to believe and the talk turned to what would be the best way to shore up South Vietnam. Simply because there was a plan for a withdraw of US troops doesn't mean Kennedy made that call.

So whats that have to do with Reagan?

Thank goodness Ronald Reagan is not in charge of the war on terrorism and his policies towards terrorism have been abandoned. He would be selling weapons to some terrorist supporting county so he could make backroom deals with the various terror organizations like he did in the 80's. Yippie for the new Obama Doctrine of chasing the fuckers down and killing or capturing them. Yippie for Navy SEALS and robots in the sky.

Happy now?

 

[Oldstyle]

I've had others try to make the same argument about JFK...citing the same Kennedy request to plan for the withdrawing of US troops. What people like 9/11 never seem to grasp is that governments plan for many different contingencies...Kennedy believing the conflict was being resolved with the communists on the losing side asked for a plan to withdraw troops. Then he came to realize that things were NOT going as well as he'd been led to believe and the talk turned to what would be the best way to shore up South Vietnam. Simply because there was a plan for a withdraw of US troops doesn't mean Kennedy made that call.

So whats that have to do with Reagan?

Thank goodness Ronald Reagan is not in charge of the war on terrorism and his policies towards terrorism have been abandoned. He would be selling weapons to some terrorist supporting county so he could make backroom deals with the various terror organizations like he did in the 80's. Yippie for the new Obama Doctrine of chasing the fuckers down and killing or capturing them. Yippie for Navy SEALS and robots in the sky.

Happy now?

Obama has a "doctrine"? Gee, I always thought to have one of those you had to have a plan in the first place...

 

[Jroc]

I've had others try to make the same argument about JFK...citing the same Kennedy request to plan for the withdrawing of US troops. What people like 9/11 never seem to grasp is that governments plan for many different contingencies...Kennedy believing the conflict was being resolved with the communists on the losing side asked for a plan to withdraw troops. Then he came to realize that things were NOT going as well as he'd been led to believe and the talk turned to what would be the best way to shore up South Vietnam. Simply because there was a plan for a withdraw of US troops doesn't mean Kennedy made that call.

So whats that have to do with Reagan?

Thank goodness Ronald Reagan is not in charge of the war on terrorism and his policies towards terrorism have been abandoned. He would be selling weapons to some terrorist supporting county so he could make backroom deals with the various terror organizations like he did in the 80's. Yippie for the new Obama Doctrine of chasing the fuckers down and killing or capturing them. Yippie for Navy SEALS and robots in the sky.

Happy now?

Obama's still using the Bush doctrine...Reagan defeated the Soviet Empire and kept the muslim nutjobs fighting themselves

 

[Oldstyle]

I think the Obama Doctrine is "leading from behind"...otherwise known as "I don't have a clue what I'm doing therefore I'm going to do as little as possible".

 

[Jroc]

I think the Obama Doctrine is "leading from behind"...otherwise known as "I don't have a clue what I'm doing therefore I'm going to do as little as possible".

Our intelligence apparatus was rebuilt by Bush.... Obama is reaping the benefits

 

[Camp]

So whats that have to do with Reagan?

Thank goodness Ronald Reagan is not in charge of the war on terrorism and his policies towards terrorism have been abandoned. He would be selling weapons to some terrorist supporting county so he could make backroom deals with the various terror organizations like he did in the 80's. Yippie for the new Obama Doctrine of chasing the fuckers down and killing or capturing them. Yippie for Navy SEALS and robots in the sky.

Happy now?

Obama's still using the Bush doctrine...Reagan defeated the Soviet Empire and kept the muslim nutjobs fighting themselves

You are just making things up. Bush threw out any semblance of a doctrine when he invaded Iraq. He even threw out the Powell Doctrine when he invaded Irag. Terrorist groups flourished under both Bush and Reagan. They grew in size and ability to attack western nations and their allies in Africa and Asia.
Reagan getting all the credit for defeating the Soviet Union is hotly debated in the countries that were freed by the collapse of the USSR. They give credit to the massisve demonstations they conducted, the influence of the Pope and Catholic Church, the nationwide strikes and the threat that the USSR would have to remilitarize Eastern Europe with occupations forces rather than the purely defensive/offenseive forces based in those countries.
The claim that Reagan had the "muslim nutjobs" fighting each other is erroneous at best. The war between Irag and Iran and the way Reagan interfered left scars and problems that would leed to many of the difficulties we face today.

 

[Meathead]

A Tribute to Ronald Reagan
Lech Walesa
President of Poland from 1990 to 1995, & winner of the 1983 Nobel Peace Prize

GDANSK, Poland — When talking about Ronald Reagan, I have to be personal. We in Poland took him so personally. Why? Because we owe him our liberty. This can’t be said often enough by people who lived under oppression for half a century, until communism fell in 1989.Poles fought for their freedom for so many years that they hold in special esteem those who backed them in their struggle. Support was the test of friendship. President Reagan was such a friend. His policy of aiding democratic movements in Central and Eastern Europe in the dark days of the Cold War meant a lot to us. We knew he believed in a few simple principles such as human rights, democracy and civil society. He was someone who was convinced that the citizen is not for the state, but vice-versa, and that freedom is an innate right.I often wondered why Ronald Reagan did this, taking the risks he did, in supporting us at Solidarity, as well as dissident movements in other countries behind the Iron Curtain, while pushing a defense buildup that pushed the Soviet economy over the brink. Let’s remember that it was a time of recession in the U.S. and a time when the American public was more interested in their own domestic affairs. It took a leader with a vision to convince them that there are greater things worth fighting for. Did he seek any profit in such a policy? Though our freedom movements were in line with the foreign policy of the United States, I doubt it.President Reagan, in a radio address from his ranch on Oct. 9, 1982, announces trade sanctions against Poland in retaliation for the outlawing of Solidarity.I distinguish between two kinds of politicians. There are those who view politics as a tactical game, a game in which they do not reveal any individuality, in which they lose their own face. There are, however, leaders for whom politics is a means of defending and furthering values. For them, it is a moral pursuit. They do so because the values they cherish are endangered. They’re convinced that there are values worth living for, and even values worth dying for.

Otherwise they would consider their life and work pointless. Only such politicians are great politicians and Ronald Reagan was one of them.The 1980s were a curious time — a time of realization that a new age was upon us. Communism was coming to an end. It had used up its means and possibilities. The ground was set for change. But this change needed the cooperation, or unspoken understanding, of different political players. Now, from the perspective of our time, it is obvious that like the pieces of a global chain of events, Ronald Reagan, John Paul II, Margaret Thatcher and even Mikhail Gorbachev helped bring about this new age in Europe. We at Solidarity like to claim more than a little credit, too, for bringing about the end of the Cold War.In the Europe of the 1980s, Ronald Reagan presented a vision. For us in Central and Eastern Europe, that meant freedom from the Soviets. Mr. Reagan was no ostrich who hoped that problems might just go away. He thought that problems are there to be faced. This is exactly what he did.Every time I met President Reagan, at his private estate in California or at the Lenin shipyard here in Gdansk, I was amazed by his modesty and even temper. He didn’t fit the stereotype of the world leader that he was. Privately, we were like opposite sides of a magnet: He was always composed; I was a raging tower of emotions eager to act. We were so different yet we never had a problem with understanding one another. I respected his honesty and good humor. It gave me confidence in his policies and his resolve. He supported my struggle, but what unified us, unmistakably, were our similar values and shared goals.* * *

I have often been asked in the United States to sign the poster that many Americans consider very significant. Prepared for the first almost-free parliamentary elections in Poland in 1989, the poster shows Gary Cooper as the lonely sheriff in the American Western, “High Noon.” Under the headline “At High Noon” runs the red Solidarity banner and the date — June 4, 1989 — of the poll. It was a simple but effective gimmick that, at the time, was misunderstood by the Communists. They, in fact, tried to ridicule the freedom movement in Poland as an invention of the “Wild” West, especially the U.S.But the poster had the opposite impact: Cowboys in Western clothes had become a powerful symbol for Poles. Cowboys fight for justice, fight against evil, and fight for freedom, both physical and spiritual. Solidarity trounced the Communists in that election, paving the way for a democratic government in Poland. It is always so touching when people bring this poster up to me to autograph it. They have cherished it for so many years and it has become the emblem of the battle that we all fought together.As I say repeatedly, we owe so much to all those who supported us. Perhaps in the early years, we didn’t express enough gratitude. We were so busy introducing all the necessary economic and political reforms in our reborn country. Yet President Ronald Reagan must have realized what remarkable changes he brought to Poland, and indeed the rest of the world.
And I hope he felt gratified. He should have.

Lech Walesa

Lech Walesa on Reagan, Valley Patriot




Of course, you would know more.

 

[Camp]

A Tribute to Ronald Reagan
Lech Walesa
President of Poland from 1990 to 1995, & winner of the 1983 Nobel Peace Prize

GDANSK, Poland — When talking about Ronald Reagan, I have to be personal. We in Poland took him so personally. Why? Because we owe him our liberty. This can’t be said often enough by people who lived under oppression for half a century, until communism fell in 1989.Poles fought for their freedom for so many years that they hold in special esteem those who backed them in their struggle. Support was the test of friendship. President Reagan was such a friend. His policy of aiding democratic movements in Central and Eastern Europe in the dark days of the Cold War meant a lot to us. We knew he believed in a few simple principles such as human rights, democracy and civil society. He was someone who was convinced that the citizen is not for the state, but vice-versa, and that freedom is an innate right.I often wondered why Ronald Reagan did this, taking the risks he did, in supporting us at Solidarity, as well as dissident movements in other countries behind the Iron Curtain, while pushing a defense buildup that pushed the Soviet economy over the brink. Let’s remember that it was a time of recession in the U.S. and a time when the American public was more interested in their own domestic affairs. It took a leader with a vision to convince them that there are greater things worth fighting for. Did he seek any profit in such a policy? Though our freedom movements were in line with the foreign policy of the United States, I doubt it.President Reagan, in a radio address from his ranch on Oct. 9, 1982, announces trade sanctions against Poland in retaliation for the outlawing of Solidarity.I distinguish between two kinds of politicians. There are those who view politics as a tactical game, a game in which they do not reveal any individuality, in which they lose their own face. There are, however, leaders for whom politics is a means of defending and furthering values. For them, it is a moral pursuit. They do so because the values they cherish are endangered. They’re convinced that there are values worth living for, and even values worth dying for.

Otherwise they would consider their life and work pointless. Only such politicians are great politicians and Ronald Reagan was one of them.The 1980s were a curious time — a time of realization that a new age was upon us. Communism was coming to an end. It had used up its means and possibilities. The ground was set for change. But this change needed the cooperation, or unspoken understanding, of different political players. Now, from the perspective of our time, it is obvious that like the pieces of a global chain of events, Ronald Reagan, John Paul II, Margaret Thatcher and even Mikhail Gorbachev helped bring about this new age in Europe. We at Solidarity like to claim more than a little credit, too, for bringing about the end of the Cold War.In the Europe of the 1980s, Ronald Reagan presented a vision. For us in Central and Eastern Europe, that meant freedom from the Soviets. Mr. Reagan was no ostrich who hoped that problems might just go away. He thought that problems are there to be faced. This is exactly what he did.Every time I met President Reagan, at his private estate in California or at the Lenin shipyard here in Gdansk, I was amazed by his modesty and even temper. He didn’t fit the stereotype of the world leader that he was. Privately, we were like opposite sides of a magnet: He was always composed; I was a raging tower of emotions eager to act. We were so different yet we never had a problem with understanding one another. I respected his honesty and good humor. It gave me confidence in his policies and his resolve. He supported my struggle, but what unified us, unmistakably, were our similar values and shared goals.* * *

I have often been asked in the United States to sign the poster that many Americans consider very significant. Prepared for the first almost-free parliamentary elections in Poland in 1989, the poster shows Gary Cooper as the lonely sheriff in the American Western, “High Noon.” Under the headline “At High Noon” runs the red Solidarity banner and the date — June 4, 1989 — of the poll. It was a simple but effective gimmick that, at the time, was misunderstood by the Communists. They, in fact, tried to ridicule the freedom movement in Poland as an invention of the “Wild” West, especially the U.S.But the poster had the opposite impact: Cowboys in Western clothes had become a powerful symbol for Poles. Cowboys fight for justice, fight against evil, and fight for freedom, both physical and spiritual. Solidarity trounced the Communists in that election, paving the way for a democratic government in Poland. It is always so touching when people bring this poster up to me to autograph it. They have cherished it for so many years and it has become the emblem of the battle that we all fought together.As I say repeatedly, we owe so much to all those who supported us. Perhaps in the early years, we didn’t express enough gratitude. We were so busy introducing all the necessary economic and political reforms in our reborn country. Yet President Ronald Reagan must have realized what remarkable changes he brought to Poland, and indeed the rest of the world.
And I hope he felt gratified. He should have.

Lech Walesa

Lech Walesa on Reagan, Valley Patriot




Of course, you would know more.

This is a tribute to Reagan. Even in the tribute other names are mentioned that helped bring about the fall of the USSR. Reagan was a force in helping to bring down the USSR, but he wasn't the only one. I have been to Eastern Europe many times. I have friends there. I often stay in their homes in towns and cities that few westerners visit. A tribute speech does not counter the many conversations I have had with the everyday people I have had the oppurtunity to discuss this issue with at length.

 

[Jroc]

Thank goodness Ronald Reagan is not in charge of the war on terrorism and his policies towards terrorism have been abandoned. He would be selling weapons to some terrorist supporting county so he could make backroom deals with the various terror organizations like he did in the 80's. Yippie for the new Obama Doctrine of chasing the fuckers down and killing or capturing them. Yippie for Navy SEALS and robots in the sky.

Happy now?

Obama's still using the Bush doctrine...Reagan defeated the Soviet Empire and kept the muslim nutjobs fighting themselves

You are just making things up. Bush threw out any semblance of a doctrine when he invaded Iraq. He even threw out the Powell Doctrine when he invaded Irag. Terrorist groups flourished under both Bush and Reagan. They grew in size and ability to attack western nations and their allies in Africa and Asia.
Reagan getting all the credit for defeating the Soviet Union is hotly debated in the countries that were freed by the collapse of the USSR. They give credit to the massisve demonstations they conducted, the influence of the Pope and Catholic Church, the nationwide strikes and the threat that the USSR would have to remilitarize Eastern Europe with occupations forces rather than the purely defensive/offenseive forces based in those countries.
The claim that Reagan had the "muslim nutjobs" fighting each other is erroneous at best. The war between Irag and Iran and the way Reagan interfered left scars and problems that would leed to many of the difficulties we face today.

Regan, Maggie Thatcher and pope John Paul.brought down the Soviet Empire .while the liberal nutjobs undermined him whenever they could

In his new book, “The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism,” Grove City College professor Paul Kengor sheds light on a letter written by KGB head Viktor Chebrikov to Soviet leader Yuri Andropov. The letter is dated May 14, 1983, right as the debate was heating up over Mr. Reagan’s proposed deployment of intermediate-range nuclear weapons in Western Europe to counter the Soviets’ medium-range rockets in Eastern Europe.

Most Democrats and much of the left were universally opposed to Mr. Reagan’s plan, which they argued would lead to nuclear war. Heading the list of critics was Mr. Kennedy, who had, according to the Soviet letter, sent former Sen. John V. Tunney to meet with Kremlin leaders. Chebrikov writes that Mr. Kennedy “charged Tunney to convey the following message, through confidential contacts, to… Andropov.”

According to the letter, Mr. Kennedy was concerned with “Reagan’s belligerence,” which he felt was in part the result of the president’s popularity. “The only real threats to Reagan are problems of war and peace and Soviet-American relations,” wrote Chebrikov, relaying Mr. Tunney’s message. “These issues, according to [Mr. Kennedy], will without a doubt become the most important of the [1984] election campaign.”

The letter goes on to say how Mr. Kennedy felt that the Soviets’ peaceful intentions were being “quoted out of context, silenced or groundlessly and whimsically discounted.” Conversely, Mr. Reagan “has the capabilities to counter any propaganda.” In other words, if the letter is to be believed, Mr. Kennedy felt his own president was the real aggressor

Kennedy-KGB collaboration - Washington Times

 

[Meathead]

A Tribute to Ronald Reagan
Lech Walesa
President of Poland from 1990 to 1995, & winner of the 1983 Nobel Peace Prize

GDANSK, Poland — When talking about Ronald Reagan, I have to be personal. We in Poland took him so personally. Why? Because we owe him our liberty. This can’t be said often enough by people who lived under oppression for half a century, until communism fell in 1989.Poles fought for their freedom for so many years that they hold in special esteem those who backed them in their struggle. Support was the test of friendship. President Reagan was such a friend. His policy of aiding democratic movements in Central and Eastern Europe in the dark days of the Cold War meant a lot to us. We knew he believed in a few simple principles such as human rights, democracy and civil society. He was someone who was convinced that the citizen is not for the state, but vice-versa, and that freedom is an innate right.I often wondered why Ronald Reagan did this, taking the risks he did, in supporting us at Solidarity, as well as dissident movements in other countries behind the Iron Curtain, while pushing a defense buildup that pushed the Soviet economy over the brink. Let’s remember that it was a time of recession in the U.S. and a time when the American public was more interested in their own domestic affairs. It took a leader with a vision to convince them that there are greater things worth fighting for. Did he seek any profit in such a policy? Though our freedom movements were in line with the foreign policy of the United States, I doubt it.President Reagan, in a radio address from his ranch on Oct. 9, 1982, announces trade sanctions against Poland in retaliation for the outlawing of Solidarity.I distinguish between two kinds of politicians. There are those who view politics as a tactical game, a game in which they do not reveal any individuality, in which they lose their own face. There are, however, leaders for whom politics is a means of defending and furthering values. For them, it is a moral pursuit. They do so because the values they cherish are endangered. They’re convinced that there are values worth living for, and even values worth dying for.

Otherwise they would consider their life and work pointless. Only such politicians are great politicians and Ronald Reagan was one of them.The 1980s were a curious time — a time of realization that a new age was upon us. Communism was coming to an end. It had used up its means and possibilities. The ground was set for change. But this change needed the cooperation, or unspoken understanding, of different political players. Now, from the perspective of our time, it is obvious that like the pieces of a global chain of events, Ronald Reagan, John Paul II, Margaret Thatcher and even Mikhail Gorbachev helped bring about this new age in Europe. We at Solidarity like to claim more than a little credit, too, for bringing about the end of the Cold War.In the Europe of the 1980s, Ronald Reagan presented a vision. For us in Central and Eastern Europe, that meant freedom from the Soviets. Mr. Reagan was no ostrich who hoped that problems might just go away. He thought that problems are there to be faced. This is exactly what he did.Every time I met President Reagan, at his private estate in California or at the Lenin shipyard here in Gdansk, I was amazed by his modesty and even temper. He didn’t fit the stereotype of the world leader that he was. Privately, we were like opposite sides of a magnet: He was always composed; I was a raging tower of emotions eager to act. We were so different yet we never had a problem with understanding one another. I respected his honesty and good humor. It gave me confidence in his policies and his resolve. He supported my struggle, but what unified us, unmistakably, were our similar values and shared goals.* * *

I have often been asked in the United States to sign the poster that many Americans consider very significant. Prepared for the first almost-free parliamentary elections in Poland in 1989, the poster shows Gary Cooper as the lonely sheriff in the American Western, “High Noon.” Under the headline “At High Noon” runs the red Solidarity banner and the date — June 4, 1989 — of the poll. It was a simple but effective gimmick that, at the time, was misunderstood by the Communists. They, in fact, tried to ridicule the freedom movement in Poland as an invention of the “Wild” West, especially the U.S.But the poster had the opposite impact: Cowboys in Western clothes had become a powerful symbol for Poles. Cowboys fight for justice, fight against evil, and fight for freedom, both physical and spiritual. Solidarity trounced the Communists in that election, paving the way for a democratic government in Poland. It is always so touching when people bring this poster up to me to autograph it. They have cherished it for so many years and it has become the emblem of the battle that we all fought together.As I say repeatedly, we owe so much to all those who supported us. Perhaps in the early years, we didn’t express enough gratitude. We were so busy introducing all the necessary economic and political reforms in our reborn country. Yet President Ronald Reagan must have realized what remarkable changes he brought to Poland, and indeed the rest of the world.
And I hope he felt gratified. He should have.

Lech Walesa

Lech Walesa on Reagan, Valley Patriot




Of course, you would know more.

This is a tribute to Reagan. Even in the tribute other names are mentioned that helped bring about the fall of the USSR. Reagan was a force in helping to bring down the USSR, but he wasn't the only one. I have been to Eastern Europe many times. I have friends there. I often stay in their homes in towns and cities that few westerners visit. A tribute speech does not counter the many conversations I have had with the everyday people I have had the oppurtunity to discuss this issue with at length.

Yes, and I of course who have lived in Prague since 1996 have not had a chance to do so. I iwill take the word of people I know and the likes of Vaclav Havel and Lech Walesa over some neophyte trustafarian. I'm funny that way I guess.

 

[Camp]

A Tribute to Ronald Reagan
Lech Walesa
President of Poland from 1990 to 1995, & winner of the 1983 Nobel Peace Prize

GDANSK, Poland — When talking about Ronald Reagan, I have to be personal. We in Poland took him so personally. Why? Because we owe him our liberty. This can’t be said often enough by people who lived under oppression for half a century, until communism fell in 1989.Poles fought for their freedom for so many years that they hold in special esteem those who backed them in their struggle. Support was the test of friendship. President Reagan was such a friend. His policy of aiding democratic movements in Central and Eastern Europe in the dark days of the Cold War meant a lot to us. We knew he believed in a few simple principles such as human rights, democracy and civil society. He was someone who was convinced that the citizen is not for the state, but vice-versa, and that freedom is an innate right.I often wondered why Ronald Reagan did this, taking the risks he did, in supporting us at Solidarity, as well as dissident movements in other countries behind the Iron Curtain, while pushing a defense buildup that pushed the Soviet economy over the brink. Let’s remember that it was a time of recession in the U.S. and a time when the American public was more interested in their own domestic affairs. It took a leader with a vision to convince them that there are greater things worth fighting for. Did he seek any profit in such a policy? Though our freedom movements were in line with the foreign policy of the United States, I doubt it.President Reagan, in a radio address from his ranch on Oct. 9, 1982, announces trade sanctions against Poland in retaliation for the outlawing of Solidarity.I distinguish between two kinds of politicians. There are those who view politics as a tactical game, a game in which they do not reveal any individuality, in which they lose their own face. There are, however, leaders for whom politics is a means of defending and furthering values. For them, it is a moral pursuit. They do so because the values they cherish are endangered. They’re convinced that there are values worth living for, and even values worth dying for.

Otherwise they would consider their life and work pointless. Only such politicians are great politicians and Ronald Reagan was one of them.The 1980s were a curious time — a time of realization that a new age was upon us. Communism was coming to an end. It had used up its means and possibilities. The ground was set for change. But this change needed the cooperation, or unspoken understanding, of different political players. Now, from the perspective of our time, it is obvious that like the pieces of a global chain of events, Ronald Reagan, John Paul II, Margaret Thatcher and even Mikhail Gorbachev helped bring about this new age in Europe. We at Solidarity like to claim more than a little credit, too, for bringing about the end of the Cold War.In the Europe of the 1980s, Ronald Reagan presented a vision. For us in Central and Eastern Europe, that meant freedom from the Soviets. Mr. Reagan was no ostrich who hoped that problems might just go away. He thought that problems are there to be faced. This is exactly what he did.Every time I met President Reagan, at his private estate in California or at the Lenin shipyard here in Gdansk, I was amazed by his modesty and even temper. He didn’t fit the stereotype of the world leader that he was. Privately, we were like opposite sides of a magnet: He was always composed; I was a raging tower of emotions eager to act. We were so different yet we never had a problem with understanding one another. I respected his honesty and good humor. It gave me confidence in his policies and his resolve. He supported my struggle, but what unified us, unmistakably, were our similar values and shared goals.* * *

I have often been asked in the United States to sign the poster that many Americans consider very significant. Prepared for the first almost-free parliamentary elections in Poland in 1989, the poster shows Gary Cooper as the lonely sheriff in the American Western, “High Noon.” Under the headline “At High Noon” runs the red Solidarity banner and the date — June 4, 1989 — of the poll. It was a simple but effective gimmick that, at the time, was misunderstood by the Communists. They, in fact, tried to ridicule the freedom movement in Poland as an invention of the “Wild” West, especially the U.S.But the poster had the opposite impact: Cowboys in Western clothes had become a powerful symbol for Poles. Cowboys fight for justice, fight against evil, and fight for freedom, both physical and spiritual. Solidarity trounced the Communists in that election, paving the way for a democratic government in Poland. It is always so touching when people bring this poster up to me to autograph it. They have cherished it for so many years and it has become the emblem of the battle that we all fought together.As I say repeatedly, we owe so much to all those who supported us. Perhaps in the early years, we didn’t express enough gratitude. We were so busy introducing all the necessary economic and political reforms in our reborn country. Yet President Ronald Reagan must have realized what remarkable changes he brought to Poland, and indeed the rest of the world.
And I hope he felt gratified. He should have.

Lech Walesa

Lech Walesa on Reagan, Valley Patriot




Of course, you would know more.

This is a tribute to Reagan. Even in the tribute other names are mentioned that helped bring about the fall of the USSR. Reagan was a force in helping to bring down the USSR, but he wasn't the only one. I have been to Eastern Europe many times. I have friends there. I often stay in their homes in towns and cities that few westerners visit. A tribute speech does not counter the many conversations I have had with the everyday people I have had the oppurtunity to discuss this issue with at length.

Yes, and I of course who have lived in Prague since 1996 have not had a chance to do so. I iwill take the word of people I know and the likes of Vaclav Havel and Lech Walesa over some neophyte trustafarian. I'm funny that way I guess.

My viewpoints are not that far off from Vaclav Havel or Lech Walesa. Credit for the fall of the USSR are shared by many factors and the degree or importance for each factor is a matter of personel opinion. Most of the Reagan fans on this board choose to ignore all the other factors and give complete and total credit to Reagan. Would the USSR have fallen without Reagan? Would it have fallen without Walesa?

 

[Meathead]

I don't think anyone is claiming that Reagan single-handed brought down the USSR, but he was unquestionably an integral part. Reagan's agenda was not one of detente as had been his predecessors. Gorbachov had no intention of dissolving the USSR, that was squarely Reagan's. And Reagan prevailed.

The attempts to belittle his role and his accomplishments in this regard are doomed to failure. He was a giant surrounded by midgets of presidential history.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Results are results

propaganda results. as always,thanks for displaying your a hypocrite. I love how you reaganuts worship the NET as the truth. thanks for displaying your hypocrisy.

only problem with your lies zionest agent,is the book that dante referred you trolls to at the very beginning of this thread sets the record straight and counters your lies you came up with on the net with ACTUAL SOURCES THE AUTHOR USES FROM THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA BACK THEN. actual mainstream media reports published from back then in the 80's in his footnotes which prove that all that you just posted is pure bullshit and lies. you lose.

you reaganut trolls of course wont read that book and look at the evidence from back then published because your too arrogant to admit you have been proven wrong.

sorry but actual sources printed back in the 80's talking about the recession and how reagan shipped jobs overseas counters your lies posted on the NET you worship.


you lose loser.

Refute the numbers loon, or go back to your Kenedy conspriacy thoeries in the alternet universe that you live in in your basement

for the hundreth time agent troll,dante as well as i have over a hundred times on this thread,referred you to the book in his opening post WITH ACTUAL SOURCES from the 80's proving there was a HUGE recession back then and actual sources that prove everything i have been saying as well.

Its not MY fault your too much of a chickenshit coward to read the book. oh and i have posted several links-"which again is something that I am against, which is why i refer people to books" that shoot down your ramblings too many times to remember,not my fault your too much of a chickenshit coward to read my links.

as always,here you are trolling,you idiot trolls came on and laughed at me when i explained that the mainstream media is controlled by the CIA and when i gave a link with actual HIGH RANKING PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT talking about how corrupt the CIA is such as Harry Truman and JFK, and showed a video in that link of congress having a hearing about it and even mentioned a book written by a former deputy director admitting they have plants in workplaces and in the media as well as referring you to links that back up that book dante referenced for you,like the chickenshit coward you are,you ran away from that post of mine not reading it and REFUSE to read that book dante referenced you to in the beginning.

I have to keep repeating the same thing over and over and over again to you trolls cause you wont address the MAJORITY of my posts or answer one simple question i have asked over a hundred time idiot.hahhahahahahahahahahahaahaaa

not my fault your too much of a chickenshit coward to read that book dante referenced to you on his very first post on this thread or read my links that shoot down your lies.

oh and agagin you show you have memeory and reading comprehension problems as well and what a hypocrite you are.anytime i post links that shoot down your lies,like the chickenshit coward you are,you run away and come back with pathetic one liner insults.

your so transparent that your an agent zionist shill sent here to try and derail truth discussions about government corruption like the idiot you are,you ADVERTISE it here.hahahahahahahahahaahahaaaa

not going to keep playing your game troll posting links and information just to watch you run away from it EVERY TIME like the chickenshit coward you are.

this i promise will be my last post with you giving you the attention you seek.

have fun talking to yourself zionist shill.

you trolls laughed at me when I first came on here when i made the point you all have been brainwashed by the CIA,then i make a post that PROVES i am correct about it,that they do have plants in the CIA, you all then run off like the cowards you are changing the subject.

you reaganut trolls can start something,but you cant finish it.

everytime i answer your lies with facts,you evade them running away from them changing the the subject everytime like the cowards you all are.again you can start something,but you cant finish it.you just come back with childish one liners knowing you are cornered. then when I post something from the net,you cowards dismiss it and run away from it.you know it,i know it.

when your proven wrong about something you said,you all evade the facts i posted and whine saying its not about the topic even though YOU all were saying i was a loony for saying it to be true0 what a bunch of fucking whiners and cowards you all are.

your not worth wasting anymore of my time on.I've wasted enough on you trolls as it is.

Like i said,you trolls are so predictable what you will post next you all are a joke.hahahahaa. must suck being you fools when you are so easy to predict.



Thank goodness Ronald Reagan is not in charge of the war on terrorism and his policies towards terrorism have been abandoned. He would be selling weapons to some terrorist supporting county so he could make backroom deals with the various terror organizations like he did in the 80's. Yippie for the new Obama Doctrine of chasing the fuckers down and killing or capturing them. Yippie for Navy SEALS and robots in the sky.

Happy now?[/QUOTE]

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Thank goodness Ronald Reagan is not in charge of the war on terrorism and his policies towards terrorism have been abandoned. He would be selling weapons to some terrorist supporting county so he could make backroom deals with the various terror organizations like he did in the 80's. Yippie for the new Obama Doctrine of chasing the fuckers down and killing or capturing them. Yippie for Navy SEALS and robots in the sky.

Happy now?

Obama's still using the Bush doctrine...Reagan defeated the Soviet Empire and kept the muslim nutjobs fighting themselves

You are just making things up. Bush threw out any semblance of a doctrine when he invaded Iraq. He even threw out the Powell Doctrine when he invaded Irag. Terrorist groups flourished under both Bush and Reagan. They grew in size and ability to attack western nations and their allies in Africa and Asia.
Reagan getting all the credit for defeating the Soviet Union is hotly debated in the countries that were freed by the collapse of the USSR. They give credit to the massisve demonstations they conducted, the influence of the Pope and Catholic Church, the nationwide strikes and the threat that the USSR would have to remilitarize Eastern Europe with occupations forces rather than the purely defensive/offenseive forces based in those countries.
The claim that Reagan had the "muslim nutjobs" fighting each other is erroneous at best. The war between Irag and Iran and the way Reagan interfered left scars and problems that would leed to many of the difficulties we face today.

as i said before camp,dont waste you time with this zionist shill.He is just seeking attention.

Him and all these reaganuts wont even answer ONE SIMPLE QUESTION I HAVE ASKED OVER A HUNDRED TIMES ON THIS THREAD. and just comes back with insults when you challenge him to read a book that refutes his lies.

you've heard the old saying before.




its advise i plan on following for now on.