Rayshard Brooks: A justified use of deadly force, explained

[TemplarKormac]

Right the cops should not be judge jury and executioner.

They have a right to self-defense. Quit advocating for anarchy, crime and lawlessness. Point a weapon at me and I'll cap your ass just as fast.

Cops do not have the permission to shoot a person that is not a direct threat to them or to another person in the immediate area.

Already pointed out Brooks WAS A direct threat. End of story. Cop will beat the charges. Throw a shovel of dirt on Brooks and be done with it. Scum got what he deserved.

Self defense never comes into play in this scenario.

Yes it does. The moment Brooks chose to violently resist arrest and attack the arresting officers. The moment he aimed that taser at Rolfe's head. He presented himself as a threat and he was treated like one.

 

[Dr Grump]

He had already attempted to cause serious bodily injury to Rolfe by firing a taser at him. By that time, Brooks had begun to flee with a partially loaded (but no less dangerous) taser in his hand. He was brought down to end any threat would have presented to other people in the area.

I'll say it again. He had dropped the taser. A taser in non-lethal. It also has to be recharged once fired - he had no way of doing that because it was out of its holster.
Experience tells me - tells anyone - that he was no danger to any other person. He was drunk and being stupid. Not psychotic. And if a cop can't tell the difference between those behaviours, then maybe they shouldn't be in the police.
Looks like the Atlanta prosecutor and police agree with me. They made the right call.

 

[TemplarKormac]

However, I do feel a $5000 fine and a year in jail is way excessive just for punching someone in the face.

He punched an officer in the face, which escalated it to an aggravated misdemeanor, and ergo, felony resisting arrest.

Still not punishable by death.

I will let the law decide that. Not you. What other recourse was left to the officer after he had a taser fired at him?

This armchair quarterbacking is getting old. You all accuse me of lacking understanding, but it is you who REFUSE to understand.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

You are mandating that a Tazer is a Firearm and thus Rolfe could shoot him in the back running away

Because the law backs my assertions.


GA CODE § 17-4-20 (b)

Second conclusion: Rolfe was permitted to use deadly force to apprehend the felon or misdemeanant:

(b) Sheriffs and peace officers who are appointed or employed in conformity with Chapter 8 of Title 35 may use deadly force to apprehend a suspected felon only when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury; when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of physical violence to the officer or others; or when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm. Nothing in this Code section shall be construed so as to restrict such sheriffs or peace officers from the use of such reasonable nondeadly force as may be necessary to apprehend and arrest a suspected felon or misdemeanant.

Begone with you.

Why would the officers "reaonably believe the suspect possesses a deadly weapon" when they had already frisked him, knew that the "weapon" he was in possession of was a taser he had taken off of one of them and had already fired it so it was allegedly spent (no more shots).

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'll say it again. He had dropped the taser. A taser ins non-lethal.

I'll say it again, a taser can produce an electrical shock strong enough to stop the human heart. Just imagine what it would have done to Rolfe's brain had Brooks connected with the taser. There was one round remaining, and he was at risk of discharging it in a populated area.

Your experience is no match for the officers. You cannot tell me that, with the same training and knowledge of the law, you would not have reacted the same way.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You are mandating that a Tazer is a Firearm and thus Rolfe could shoot him in the back running away

Because the law backs my assertions.


GA CODE § 17-4-20 (b)

Second conclusion: Rolfe was permitted to use deadly force to apprehend the felon or misdemeanant:

(b) Sheriffs and peace officers who are appointed or employed in conformity with Chapter 8 of Title 35 may use deadly force to apprehend a suspected felon only when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury; when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of physical violence to the officer or others; or when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm. Nothing in this Code section shall be construed so as to restrict such sheriffs or peace officers from the use of such reasonable nondeadly force as may be necessary to apprehend and arrest a suspected felon or misdemeanant.

Begone with you.

Why would the officers "reaonably believe the suspect possesses a deadly weapon" when they had already frisked him, knew that the "weapon" he was in possession of was a taser he had taken off of one of them and had already fired it so it was allegedly spent (no more shots).

Wrong. Rolfe spent his taser. Brooks had Brosnan's taser, which was fully loaded. He fired one round at Rolfe as he was supposedly fleeing.

He could not have been permitted to enter a populated area with a taser that had one cartridge left in the chamber.

Please review the body of my responses in this thread before asking me any more ill informed questions.

Thanks in advance.

 

[TemplarKormac]

He had already attempted to cause serious bodily injury to Rolfe by firing a taser at him. By that time, Brooks had begun to flee with a partially loaded (but no less dangerous) taser in his hand. He was brought down to end any threat would have presented to other people in the area.

I'll say it again. He had dropped the taser. A taser in non-lethal. It also has to be recharged once fired - he had no way of doing that because it was out of its holster.
Experience tells me - tells anyone - that he was no danger to any other person. He was drunk and being stupid. Not psychotic. And if a cop can't tell the difference between those behaviours, then maybe they shouldn't be in the police.
Looks like the Atlanta prosecutor and police agree with me. They made the right call.

Unfortunately for you, as opposed to you living clear across the other side of the planet, thousands of miles away, I live in the state in question. Seventy miles away from Atlanta.

It has nothing to do with his emotional state, it had everything to do with his compliance with lawfully given orders.

The taser in question was fully charged and was capable of firing 2 cartridges. It did not need to be charged in between shots. It is just as dangerous when either the first or second cartridge is fired.

 

[Coyote]

He had already attempted to cause serious bodily injury to Rolfe by firing a taser at him. By that time, Brooks had begun to flee with a partially loaded (but no less dangerous) taser in his hand. He was brought down to end any threat would have presented to other people in the area.

I'll say it again. He had dropped the taser. A taser in non-lethal. It also has to be recharged once fired - he had no way of doing that because it was out of its holster.
Experience tells me - tells anyone - that he was no danger to any other person. He was drunk and being stupid. Not psychotic. And if a cop can't tell the difference between those behaviours, then maybe they shouldn't be in the police.
Looks like the Atlanta prosecutor and police agree with me. They made the right call.

Unfortunately for you, as opposed to you living clear across the other side of the planet, thousands of miles away, I live in the state in question. Seventy miles away from Atlanta.

It has nothing to do with his emotional state, it had everything to do with his compliance with lawfully given orders.

The taser in question was fully charged and was capable of firing 2 cartridges. It did not need to be charged in between shots. It is just as dangerous when the first or second cartridge is fired.

The man was a drunk driver.

Could a non lethal means of resolving the situation been used?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

He's a cop dealing with thugs in Atlanta. Does this surprise you?

It's less surprising than learning there are still people ignorant of structural racism in the Land of the Free

Structural Racism in America

"Throughout this country’s history, the hallmarks of American democracy – opportunity, freedom, and prosperity – have been largely reserved for white people through the intentional exclusion and oppression of people of color.

"The deep racial and ethnic inequities that exist today are a direct result of structural racism: the historical and contemporary policies, practices, and norms that create and maintain white supremacy."

Uh, just a heads up. The OP insists that the United States of America even if it was founded upon white supremacy, has taken strides to repent for it's racist past and as a result it cannot be said that "America is racist" in spite of all of the documented cases of racism still occuring.

He thinks racism ended with the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

 

[Coyote]

He's a cop dealing with thugs in Atlanta. Does this surprise you?

It's less surprising than learning there are still people ignorant of structural racism in the Land of the Free

Structural Racism in America

"Throughout this country’s history, the hallmarks of American democracy – opportunity, freedom, and prosperity – have been largely reserved for white people through the intentional exclusion and oppression of people of color.

"The deep racial and ethnic inequities that exist today are a direct result of structural racism: the historical and contemporary policies, practices, and norms that create and maintain white supremacy."

Uh, just a heads up. The OP insists that the United States of America even if it was founded upon white supremacy, has taken strides to repent for it's racist past and as a result it cannot be said that "America is racist" in spite of all of the documented cases of racism still occuring.

He thinks racism ended with the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

I do not agree that America as a nation, is racist, but agree that racism is an ongoing problem.

 

[TemplarKormac]

He had already attempted to cause serious bodily injury to Rolfe by firing a taser at him. By that time, Brooks had begun to flee with a partially loaded (but no less dangerous) taser in his hand. He was brought down to end any threat would have presented to other people in the area.

I'll say it again. He had dropped the taser. A taser in non-lethal. It also has to be recharged once fired - he had no way of doing that because it was out of its holster.
Experience tells me - tells anyone - that he was no danger to any other person. He was drunk and being stupid. Not psychotic. And if a cop can't tell the difference between those behaviours, then maybe they shouldn't be in the police.
Looks like the Atlanta prosecutor and police agree with me. They made the right call.

Unfortunately for you, as opposed to you living clear across the other side of the planet, thousands of miles away, I live in the state in question. Seventy miles away from Atlanta.

It has nothing to do with his emotional state, it had everything to do with his compliance with lawfully given orders.

The taser in question was fully charged and was capable of firing 2 cartridges. It did not need to be charged in between shots. It is just as dangerous when the first or second cartridge is fired.

The man was a drunk driver.

Could a non lethal means of resolving the situation been used?

No. Not when he chose to employ violence to resist arrest. Not when he took a fully loaded taser from an officer and fled with it.. Not whe he fired said taser at the police officer. He already presented himself as a threat. All of his good behavior prior to the altercation was rendered moot.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Anyone?

Anyone??

Hello, is this thing on? Did my internet go out?

He was shot in the back. Running away.

That does not make a point.

All it does is stir emotion. It does not present any facts, Coyote.

It states a fact.

Some more facts that were not acknowledged: A taser is not lethal. They had his wallet and driver’s license, and car.

The officer kicked him as he lay dying.

They delayed medical help.

For most of the encounter (41 something minutes) Rayshard was calm, reasonable, offered to walk home (per recorded footage).

Your question is really contingent on another: could this have been handled differently in a way that kept everyone safe, and prevented any deaths?

I've been scouring this case and all relevant law and evidence for the past 12 hours, Coyote.

1) No it doesn't. Respectfully.

2) A taser is lethal as per this link:

Tasers Can Stop The Heart And Kill

Tasers, also known as stun guns, can cause sudden cardiac arrest and death, researchers from Indiana University School of Medicine reported in the journal Circulation.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

3) The officer was kneeling. Howard only posted a still shot. If there had been video of Rolfe kicking Brooks, we all would have seen it.

4) "Delayed medical help" for all of 2 minutes. You can't do proper CPR and field triage when you are still high on adrenaline. Moreover:

Fired officer who shot Rayshard Brooks dead begged him to stay alive

DailyMail.com can reveal Officer Garrett Rolfe begged Rayshard Brooks to stay alive after shots were fired, as seen on the officer's body camera that was picked up by another officer.

www.dailymail.co.uk

5) Rayshard refused to walk home. Yes, he was calm and cordial until he began resisting arrest and employing violence. There was no provocation by the officer.

6) The question is this:

Could Rayshard have simply complied with the officer's command and prevented his own death?

Wasn't he impaired?

 

[Dragonlady]

Why did the DA feel the need to rush these charges and not give the GBI the chance to fully investigate the incident?

This guy walks, I'd put my life on it.

Because he had the video evidence from numerous sources and looked at what happened from all sides and directions.

 

[TemplarKormac]

He's a cop dealing with thugs in Atlanta. Does this surprise you?

It's less surprising than learning there are still people ignorant of structural racism in the Land of the Free

Structural Racism in America

"Throughout this country’s history, the hallmarks of American democracy – opportunity, freedom, and prosperity – have been largely reserved for white people through the intentional exclusion and oppression of people of color.

"The deep racial and ethnic inequities that exist today are a direct result of structural racism: the historical and contemporary policies, practices, and norms that create and maintain white supremacy."

Uh, just a heads up. The OP insists that the United States of America even if it was founded upon white supremacy, has taken strides to repent for it's racist past and as a result it cannot be said that "America is racist" in spite of all of the documented cases of racism still occuring.

He thinks racism ended with the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Sure, and you think I'm going to allow you to derail my thread. If you can't be bothered to debate me on the premise of this thread, just say so.

You can make further comments on that other thread, but I will not respond to them here.

 

[Jackson]

He had already attempted to cause serious bodily injury to Rolfe by firing a taser at him. By that time, Brooks had begun to flee with a partially loaded (but no less dangerous) taser in his hand. He was brought down to end any threat would have presented to other people in the area.

I'll say it again. He had dropped the taser. A taser in non-lethal. It also has to be recharged once fired - he had no way of doing that because it was out of its holster.
Experience tells me - tells anyone - that he was no danger to any other person. He was drunk and being stupid. Not psychotic. And if a cop can't tell the difference between those behaviours, then maybe they shouldn't be in the police.
Looks like the Atlanta prosecutor and police agree with me. They made the right call.

He shot the taser at the head of Brooks. He didn't drop it before he shot it. And the taser has been deemed lethal by law enforcement. We've seen men die from taser shots before. I agree with those that say the indictment will not go through as charged.

 

[Dragonlady]

He had already attempted to cause serious bodily injury to Rolfe by firing a taser at him. By that time, Brooks had begun to flee with a partially loaded (but no less dangerous) taser in his hand. He was brought down to end any threat would have presented to other people in the area.

I'll say it again. He had dropped the taser. A taser in non-lethal. It also has to be recharged once fired - he had no way of doing that because it was out of its holster.
Experience tells me - tells anyone - that he was no danger to any other person. He was drunk and being stupid. Not psychotic. And if a cop can't tell the difference between those behaviours, then maybe they shouldn't be in the police.
Looks like the Atlanta prosecutor and police agree with me. They made the right call.

Unfortunately for you, as opposed to you living clear across the other side of the planet, thousands of miles away, I live in the state in question. Seventy miles away from Atlanta.

It has nothing to do with his emotional state, it had everything to do with his compliance with lawfully given orders.

The taser in question was fully charged and was capable of firing 2 cartridges. It did not need to be charged in between shots. It is just as dangerous when the first or second cartridge is fired.

The man was a drunk driver.

Could a non lethal means of resolving the situation been used?

No. Not when he chose to employ violence to resist arrest. Not when he took a fully loaded taser from an officer and fled with it.. Not whe he fired said taser at the police officer. He already presented himself as a threat. All of his good behavior prior to the altercation was rendered moot.

Wrong.

Once again, you ignore that the following police procedure violations: Do not fire at a fleeing suspect unless your life is in imminent danger. Do not fire into a crowd of bystander. Rolfe hit a car with three people in it.

There was no need to arrest Mr. Brooks at that time. They had his keys, his car, and his address. They can pick him up at any time.

They failed to follow procedures, all along the line, and a man was killed for no reason.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Anyone?

Anyone??

Hello, is this thing on? Did my internet go out?

He was shot in the back. Running away.

That does not make a point.

All it does is stir emotion. It does not present any facts, Coyote.

It states a fact.

Some more facts that were not acknowledged: A taser is not lethal. They had his wallet and driver’s license, and car.

The officer kicked him as he lay dying.

They delayed medical help.

For most of the encounter (41 something minutes) Rayshard was calm, reasonable, offered to walk home (per recorded footage).

Your question is really contingent on another: could this have been handled differently in a way that kept everyone safe, and prevented any deaths?

I've been scouring this case and all relevant law and evidence for the past 12 hours, Coyote.

1) No it doesn't. Respectfully.

2) A taser is lethal as per this link:

Tasers Can Stop The Heart And Kill

Tasers, also known as stun guns, can cause sudden cardiac arrest and death, researchers from Indiana University School of Medicine reported in the journal Circulation.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

3) The officer was kneeling. Howard only posted a still shot. If there had been video of Rolfe kicking Brooks, we all would have seen it.

4) "Delayed medical help" for all of 2 minutes. You can't do proper CPR and field triage when you are still high on adrenaline. Moreover:

Fired officer who shot Rayshard Brooks dead begged him to stay alive

DailyMail.com can reveal Officer Garrett Rolfe begged Rayshard Brooks to stay alive after shots were fired, as seen on the officer's body camera that was picked up by another officer.

www.dailymail.co.uk

5) Rayshard refused to walk home. Yes, he was calm and cordial until he began resisting arrest and employing violence. There was no provocation by the officer.

6) The question is this:

Could Rayshard have simply complied with the officer's command and prevented his own death?

Wasn't he impaired?

Not to the extent that he couldn't steal a taser from a police officer. Or cordially engage with officers for 41 minutes prior. He had enough presence of mind to know what he was doing, that such behavior was a violation of his probation and a one way ticket back to jail. He was obviously traumatized enough by the experience that he didn't want to go back there, yet he chose to engage in the exact behavior that would get him sent back.

Impaired? Not impaired enough.

 

[TemplarKormac]

He had already attempted to cause serious bodily injury to Rolfe by firing a taser at him. By that time, Brooks had begun to flee with a partially loaded (but no less dangerous) taser in his hand. He was brought down to end any threat would have presented to other people in the area.

I'll say it again. He had dropped the taser. A taser in non-lethal. It also has to be recharged once fired - he had no way of doing that because it was out of its holster.
Experience tells me - tells anyone - that he was no danger to any other person. He was drunk and being stupid. Not psychotic. And if a cop can't tell the difference between those behaviours, then maybe they shouldn't be in the police.
Looks like the Atlanta prosecutor and police agree with me. They made the right call.

Unfortunately for you, as opposed to you living clear across the other side of the planet, thousands of miles away, I live in the state in question. Seventy miles away from Atlanta.

It has nothing to do with his emotional state, it had everything to do with his compliance with lawfully given orders.

The taser in question was fully charged and was capable of firing 2 cartridges. It did not need to be charged in between shots. It is just as dangerous when the first or second cartridge is fired.

The man was a drunk driver.

Could a non lethal means of resolving the situation been used?

No. Not when he chose to employ violence to resist arrest. Not when he took a fully loaded taser from an officer and fled with it.. Not whe he fired said taser at the police officer. He already presented himself as a threat. All of his good behavior prior to the altercation was rendered moot.

Wrong.

Once again, you ignore that the following police procedure violations: Do not fire at a fleeing suspect unless your life is in imminent danger. Do not fire into a crowd of bystander. Rolfe hit a car with three people in it.

There was no need to arrest Mr. Brooks at that time. They had his keys, his car, and his address. They can pick him up at any time.

They failed to follow procedures, all along the line, and a man was killed for no reason.

You don't even know what the procedures are. I laid them out in the OP and you still choose to spout your ignorance.

 

[Coyote]

He had already attempted to cause serious bodily injury to Rolfe by firing a taser at him. By that time, Brooks had begun to flee with a partially loaded (but no less dangerous) taser in his hand. He was brought down to end any threat would have presented to other people in the area.

I'll say it again. He had dropped the taser. A taser in non-lethal. It also has to be recharged once fired - he had no way of doing that because it was out of its holster.
Experience tells me - tells anyone - that he was no danger to any other person. He was drunk and being stupid. Not psychotic. And if a cop can't tell the difference between those behaviours, then maybe they shouldn't be in the police.
Looks like the Atlanta prosecutor and police agree with me. They made the right call.

Unfortunately for you, as opposed to you living clear across the other side of the planet, thousands of miles away, I live in the state in question. Seventy miles away from Atlanta.

It has nothing to do with his emotional state, it had everything to do with his compliance with lawfully given orders.

The taser in question was fully charged and was capable of firing 2 cartridges. It did not need to be charged in between shots. It is just as dangerous when the first or second cartridge is fired.

The man was a drunk driver.

Could a non lethal means of resolving the situation been used?

No. Not when he chose to employ violence to resist arrest. Not when he took a fully loaded taser from an officer and fled with it.. Not whe he fired said taser at the police officer. He already presented himself as a threat. All of his good behavior prior to the altercation was rendered moot.

A lot of people resist arrest. Is that a death sentence?

 

[Coyote]

He had already attempted to cause serious bodily injury to Rolfe by firing a taser at him. By that time, Brooks had begun to flee with a partially loaded (but no less dangerous) taser in his hand. He was brought down to end any threat would have presented to other people in the area.

I'll say it again. He had dropped the taser. A taser in non-lethal. It also has to be recharged once fired - he had no way of doing that because it was out of its holster.
Experience tells me - tells anyone - that he was no danger to any other person. He was drunk and being stupid. Not psychotic. And if a cop can't tell the difference between those behaviours, then maybe they shouldn't be in the police.
Looks like the Atlanta prosecutor and police agree with me. They made the right call.

Unfortunately for you, as opposed to you living clear across the other side of the planet, thousands of miles away, I live in the state in question. Seventy miles away from Atlanta.

It has nothing to do with his emotional state, it had everything to do with his compliance with lawfully given orders.

The taser in question was fully charged and was capable of firing 2 cartridges. It did not need to be charged in between shots. It is just as dangerous when the first or second cartridge is fired.

The man was a drunk driver.

Could a non lethal means of resolving the situation been used?

No. Not when he chose to employ violence to resist arrest. Not when he took a fully loaded taser from an officer and fled with it.. Not whe he fired said taser at the police officer. He already presented himself as a threat. All of his good behavior prior to the altercation was rendered moot.

Wrong.

Once again, you ignore that the following police procedure violations: Do not fire at a fleeing suspect unless your life is in imminent danger. Do not fire into a crowd of bystander. Rolfe hit a car with three people in it.

There was no need to arrest Mr. Brooks at that time. They had his keys, his car, and his address. They can pick him up at any time.

They failed to follow procedures, all along the line, and a man was killed for no reason.

My thought as well.