Rancher's killing draws citizens, officials

[José]

Originally posted by Slackjawed
You did notice the part in my previous post where i talked about leaving water?
I just will be more cautious when I am in that area. I go down every spring to a ranch west of Douglas. The biggest reason to carry a rifle has been the rabies in the past few years. Rabies makes the bobcats and mtn lions attack a man on horseback. Now though, well, it's a little different. I have never been homocidal, but I have drawn on illegals in the past when I felt threatened. I even took a couple in one time, but I was young, and very invincable.......
I will still leave out water jugs. It's only human. It's a good thing to do, everyone should have water no matter what.

 

[José]

Originally posted by WillowTree
only a damn fool seeks cheaper medical treatment in mexico.. and I don't intend to be more understanding.. I've run out of understanding.. and I don't intend to learn spanish.

Originally posted by Againsheila
In Guadalajara, the hospital is right next to a mortuary.....I'm not sure I would ever willingly go to the Mexicans for medical care even if it is cheaper.

Come on, Mrs. Sheila. Let's not allow anti-mexican feelings to rape the truth.

As someone who already lived in Mexico you should know the mexican side of Nogales is famous throughout the American Southwest for offering high quality dental and medical care at accessible prices. They know they are competing with America's clinics.

Maybe Willow never lived in the South but I expected better from you.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Angelhair
Nobody faults them for fleeing poverty - however, the USA is not here to welcome people who refuse to respect its sovereignty - PERIOD!!! So Jose, save me your bleeding heart mentality. These people should stay put in their country and fight for rights, change, and whatever else is lacking. If they can't come here legally, DON'T COME - it's that simple.

Originally posted by Againsheila
I had friends that were denied entry to this country, they spent their lives in Canada. I have many, many friends and relatives that came here LEGALLY, through all the legal channels, why do you believe someone who walks across the border should have more rights than my friends and family? My brother couldn't get his mother in law here legally in more than 20 years of trying. She died in Thailand, never getting to see the home where her daughter and granddaughters lived. Why do you think someone who breaks our laws and sneaks into this country deserve more rights than my friends and family?

I'm tired of being a 2nd class citizen in my own country. It's time to recognize that America is for AMERICANS FIRST!!!!

Originally posted by RodISHI
I do agree with you if they don't respect the law in our country enough to follow it they do not belong here.

I have sympathy for the poor. I do not have sympathy for those who refuse to follow the laws of this country.

Angel, Rodish, Sheila, Willow are all telling us how Mexicans and Slackjawed (humans in general) SHOULD BE, and that's all fine and dandy, but sooner or later they will have to come back to Planet Earth and deal with how Mexicans and Slackjawed REALLY ARE.

Why do Mexicans and American citizens like Slackjawed work and get patched up in the US/Mexico respectvely instead of "fighting" to improve Mexico's economy/the american health system?

Because Mexicans and Slackjawed are not braindead morons!!

The average Mexican:

If I follow Angelhair, Rodish and Sheila's adivice and stay here in Mexico fighting for better living conditions I will surely die in misery and Mexico will still be as poor as it is today!!

The average american citizen like Slackjawed:

If I stay in the US to fight for cheaper medical treatment I'll pay exorbitant prices for the rest of my life and the country's medical services will probably be as expensive as they are today!!

And guess what... Mexicans and Slackjawed are absolutely right!! They can't change Mexico's third world status nor America's expensive medical treatment.

THEY CAN ONLY CHANGE THEIR OWN LIVES!!

Let's not be childish here...

I cannot really blame Mexicans and Slackjawed for the decisions they made!!

I cannot blame them for not wanting to spend their entire lives fighting for better wages/cheap health care in their countries, trying to change a whole system and end up dying in misery/paying exorbitant prices for medical care as a result of their decision!!

I cannot blame them for not being total idiots!!

 

[José]

Mrs. Sheila tells me about their relatives who prefer to stay in their countries rather than living in the US ilegally and I applaud and respect their decision.

I even believe many Mexicans took a similar decision in their lives but as I said before sooner or later we have to deal with how humans are not with how we would like them to be.

Some Mexicans would never work in the US ilegally but many will.

If for some stupid, absurd nationalistic reason Mexico prevented American citizens from seeking cheaper medical treatment in Mexico many Americans, perhaps Slackjawed among them would respect the new Mexican law but hundreds of thousands of American citizens would be willing to enter Mexico illegaly to get medical help.

You can rant and rave all you wish. You can call those Mexicans and Americans criminals, felons etc, etc... but that's how human nature is.

A much more productive line of thought would be something along these lines:

Mexicans will look for work in the US and Americans will seek cheap treatments in Mexico be it legal or illegal. It is part of human nature.

No point in bashing them... Instead of calling names, people in both countries should exert pressure on their respective governments to prevent those Americans and Mexicans from achieving their unlawful objectives.

Let's fight an instinctive human trait (moving to wealthier/cheaper parts of the world either legally or illegally) with ANOTHER instinctive human trait (the tendency to protect one's tribe from foreign invasion).

 

[José]

The fundamental recognition that both Mexicans trying to move to a wealthier part of the american continent and Americans trying to stop them are all following natural human tendencies seems to me a healthier, more mature way to visualise the whole issue of illegal immigration in America.

Much healthier than the usual shouting match, finger pointing, exchange of accusations and bad blood between two countries that for better and for worse were "condemned" by Geography to be neighbors until they finally collapse and disapear naturally giving way to another form of political organisation between humans in North America that will eventually replace Mexico and America in the far future.

 

[mudwhistle]

'It is not fair to lump people fleeing poverty and lack of opportunity together with people smuggling drugs."

Nobody faults them for fleeing poverty - however, the USA is not here to welcome people who refuse to respect its sovereignty - PERIOD!!! So Jose, save me your bleeding heart mentality. These people should stay put in their country and fight for rights, change, and whatever else is lacking. If they can't come here legally, DON'T COME - it's that simple.

I do agree with you if they don't respect the law in our country enough to follow it they do not belong here.

I have sympathy for the poor. I do not have sympathy for those who refuse to follow the laws of this country.

If we had the money I would gladly give someone a hand out or a hand up. We were down near the border a few years back. We walked through the local shops and then headed back to the pickup. As we walked down the sidewalk we could see a man crossing the parking lot headed toward the pickup. Our pickup was the only vehicle on that side of a large parking lot. This guy was intent in getting to the pickup and evidently did not see us walking toward it on the sidewalk. Rod and I were within a few feet of the guy as he reached his hand up to try and open the door. The two hundred pound dog in the back seat was spooked. He jumped up and woofed his very loud and deep bark. The guy was shaking (I think he pissed his pants). Rod asked the guy if he could help him. The guy did not speak English but he relayed he needed money. Rod reached into his pocket and gave the guy some money. The guy took the money and left. Rod told me he would rather give the man money than have the man steal from him. We got into the pickup and drove out of the parking lot. As we drove onto the street we could see the potential thief coming out of a bread store with a grocery bag.


My questions would be what happened to all the good NAFTA was going to do? Why isn't Mexico providing for their own people? In my mind it should be the Mexican government taking care of their people well enough that these people can make a living in Mexico instead of coming across the border and downgrading the pay scale here.

I have heard that workers come from countries farther south and work in Mexico and this has stressed the workforce there in some places in Mexico.

Another consideration is we have some companies from here that have abused the laws in Mexico concerning corn imports and manufacturing workers. What are we doing about these people/companies if anything? IMO, when or if you get a company or employer that has become accustom to abusing workers these same companies will have no respect for anyone or anything else.

The Struggle of Women in Maquiladoras


An abused labor pool: Workers of mexican origin in the U.S. economy

The manufacturing shibboleth | The Economist

Part of the reason Mexico is such a shithole is because of the lack of respect for the law. Everyone has been brought up in a country [Mexico]where the government is corrupt and everyone that lives there has to pretty much fend for themselves.

Give it enough time and America will eventually be the same way as long as we continue to have a government that doesn't use common-sense and in effect is just in it for themselves.

 

[José]

Mexico's third world status and America's expensive medical services are structural characteristics of both countries that cannot be changed by decree, by a government decision.

If Calderon decided to raise Mexico's minimum wage to 1000 dollars or even 500 the whole country would immediately go bankrupt!!

Similarly America will never lower medical costs to mexican levels no matter how hard it tries.

Dumb Mexicans who decide to stay in Mexico to turn the country into a first world nation through their "hard work" and "protests" are in for a big disapointment.

 

[Angelhair]

Mexico is corrupt to the core. It has always been and will continue to be so. It's the classic third world mentality born out of poverty, lawlessness, chaos, misery and in many instances - ignorance.

 

[José]

Has any poster said something about the unhealthy attitude towards illegal immigration based on shouting matches, finger pointing, exchange of accusations and bad blood between the two countries fueled by super patriotic clowns on both sides of the border?

 

[WillowTree]

The fundamental recognition that both Mexicans trying to move to a wealthier part of the american continent and Americans trying to stop them are all following natural human tendencies seems to me a healthier, more mature way to visualise the whole issue of illegal immigration in America.

Much healthier than the usual shouting match, finger pointing, exchange of accusations and bad blood between two countries that for better and for worse were "condemned" by Geography to be neighbors until they finally collapse and disapear naturally giving way to another form of political organisation between humans in North America that will eventually replace Mexico and America in the far future.

mexicans built the mexican shithole. mexicans should try to fix it.

 

[José]

Originally posted by WillowTree
mexicans built the mexican shithole. mexicans should try to fix it.

Say this to your ancestors who crossed the atlantic pond driven by the same INSTINCT that leads Mexicans to cross the Rio Grande:

The urge to move from poorer to wealthier parts of the world.

Were it not for this human trait you wouldn't even be in America now crucifying, barbecuing and grilling Mexicans for doing the same thing.

 

[José]

And here comes the screams: "My ancestors were legal immigrants, blah, blah, blah..."

Their legal status is irrelevant. The point is they followed the same basic human tendency as illegal mexicans and the legality of their migration had more to do with the physical barrier called Atlantic Ocean separating them from the Promised Land than with any moral bearings.

 

[Angelhair]

It does not matter if you crossed the Atlantic Ocean to get to the Promised Land or the Rio Grande to get to the land of opportunity. If it was done to enter the country without permission it is still illegal entry punishable by deporation. Get rid of the chip on your shoulder.

 

[RodISHI]

It does not matter if you crossed the Atlantic Ocean to get to the Promised Land or the Rio Grande to get to the land of opportunity. If it was done to enter the country without permission it is still illegal entry punishable by deporation. Get rid of the chip on your shoulder.

That one word that seems to be ignored.

 

[Againsheila]

The comments on the story covered what should be done but, how are the people going to get the legislators to take action when many of them are supporting amnesty again? They all need kicked out of DC

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz attended but said nothing?

What can pro-illegal alien Democrats say to the bereaved family and friends of the murdered rancher? "sorry"? But the Democrats are not sorry even a little because they are now planning on handing every illegal alien citizenship.

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz has some gull to attend that meeting after her inaction got a good man murdered.

The blood is on the open border Democrats and Republicans like McCain's hands as well as the Star's for their never ending support of illegal aliens.

That is just plain bullshit.

The blame and blood are on the killer's hands no one else's.

The blame also lies with those who refuse to protect our borders! Had our borders been protected that man would not have been able to kill that rancher.

 

[Againsheila]

And here comes the screams: "My ancestors were legal immigrants, blah, blah, blah..."

Their legal status is irrelevant. The point is they followed the same basic human tendency as illegal mexicans and the legality of their migration had more to do with the physical barrier called Atlantic Ocean separating them from the Promised Land than with any moral bearings.

Bulcrap....as I said before, my family's friends were DENIED entry to this country. They settled in Canada where they lived out their lives. My brother tried for more than 20 years to get his mother in law here legally and failed.....she didn't sneak in, nor would she have.

My cousin in law came in from Germany LEGALLY, my aunt and uncle had to sponsor him. When my sister brought her husband into our country from Canada, my parents had to sponsor HIM, even though he had $40,000 in the bank. Yes, he could have just walked across the border illegally, but he DIDN'T. Not everyone who can walk here chooses to come illegally. Many, MANY of them come legally. In fact we have more LEGAL Hispanics coming into this country each yeah than all other ethnicities combined.

 

[Againsheila]

Originally posted by Angelhair
Nobody faults them for fleeing poverty - however, the USA is not here to welcome people who refuse to respect its sovereignty - PERIOD!!! So Jose, save me your bleeding heart mentality. These people should stay put in their country and fight for rights, change, and whatever else is lacking. If they can't come here legally, DON'T COME - it's that simple.

Originally posted by Againsheila
I had friends that were denied entry to this country, they spent their lives in Canada. I have many, many friends and relatives that came here LEGALLY, through all the legal channels, why do you believe someone who walks across the border should have more rights than my friends and family? My brother couldn't get his mother in law here legally in more than 20 years of trying. She died in Thailand, never getting to see the home where her daughter and granddaughters lived. Why do you think someone who breaks our laws and sneaks into this country deserve more rights than my friends and family?

I'm tired of being a 2nd class citizen in my own country. It's time to recognize that America is for AMERICANS FIRST!!!!

Originally posted by RodISHI
I do agree with you if they don't respect the law in our country enough to follow it they do not belong here.

I have sympathy for the poor. I do not have sympathy for those who refuse to follow the laws of this country.

Angel, Rodish, Sheila, Willow are all telling us how Mexicans and Slackjawed (humans in general) SHOULD BE, and that's all fine and dandy, but sooner or later they will have to come back to Planet Earth and deal with how Mexicans and Slackjawed REALLY ARE.

Why do Mexicans and American citizens like Slackjawed work and get patched up in the US/Mexico respectvely instead of "fighting" to improve Mexico's economy/the american health system?

Because Mexicans and Slackjawed are not braindead morons!!

The average Mexican:

If I follow Angelhair, Rodish and Sheila's adivice and stay here in Mexico fighting for better living conditions I will surely die in misery and Mexico will still be as poor as it is today!!

The average american citizen like Slackjawed:

If I stay in the US to fight for cheaper medical treatment I'll pay exorbitant prices for the rest of my life and the country's medical services will probably be as expensive as they are today!!

And guess what... Mexicans and Slackjawed are absolutely right!! They can't change Mexico's third world status nor America's expensive medical treatment.

THEY CAN ONLY CHANGE THEIR OWN LIVES!!

Let's not be childish here...

I cannot really blame Mexicans and Slackjawed for the decisions they made!!

I cannot blame them for not wanting to spend their entire lives fighting for better wages/cheap health care in their countries, trying to change a whole system and end up dying in misery/paying exorbitant prices for medical care as a result of their decision!!

I cannot blame them for not being total idiots!!

While I lived in Mexico, I listened to a Mexican give me a lecture on how terrible it was that so many Americans came down there and didn't speak the language. This lecture of course was in Spanish. I think it only fair that I give the same lecture to non-English speaking Mexicans that are here, in English of course.

While I was in Mexico, I and everyone of my classmates were talking about a Mexican revolution which was brewing and how if it started while we were there, we would join the peasants in their uprising against the elite. We were willing to put our lives on the line to help them, you can't get any more selfless than that.

Coming up here and ruining our country, taking away our unskilled employment, keeping our wages low, making our income gap higher, in essence, making our country the way theirs is, is not the answer. As long as they keep coming HERE, they won't ever fix THERE.

As for going someplace better, during my husband's 3 years of unemployment, we looked into emigrating to other countries. None would have us. We are the only country in the world that takes in the unskilled from other countries.....there is no excuse for our government not to protect our jobs. We already have more LEGAL immigrants every year than all other countries combined, allowing the illegals to stay is a slap in the face to every legal immigrant in this country, not to mention the millions that were denied entry and didn't break into this country.

 

[Againsheila]

Originally posted by WillowTree
only a damn fool seeks cheaper medical treatment in mexico.. and I don't intend to be more understanding.. I've run out of understanding.. and I don't intend to learn spanish.

Originally posted by Againsheila
In Guadalajara, the hospital is right next to a mortuary.....I'm not sure I would ever willingly go to the Mexicans for medical care even if it is cheaper.

Come on, Mrs. Sheila. Let's not allow anti-mexican feelings to rape the truth.

As someone who already lived in Mexico you should know the mexican side of Nogales is famous throughout the American Southwest for offering high quality dental and medical care at accessible prices. They know they are competing with America's clinics.

Maybe Willow never lived in the South but I expected better from you.

I have no anti Mexican feelings. While in Mexico I lived with a Mexican family. I have anti-illegal feelings, it's just that there are more illegal Hispanics than any other ethnicity, mostly due to geography.

 

[Angelhair]

Mexico as a country SUCKS!!!!! Period!!! Exclamation point!!!! And they can continue to blame the USA for their miserable plight - but one thing is certain - while they point the finger of blame at the USA, this country keeps moving forward. Yes we are having problems now, but this country will end up on TOP and Mexico and every other country will stay at the BOTTOM - as usual. Don't like my patriotism? Tough crap!!!!

 

[Father Time]

put the blame where it belongs..the government that allows this and in fact encourages it

How does the government encourage murder? It's one of the few crimes it kills people over.