Questions.....RE: The Greenhouse Effect

[Wuwei]

SSDD only believes one thing in science and even that is wrong. C'mon SSDD give us a new physics phantasy theory so we can watch you lash out in anger at everyone and at science in general. We are getting bored of your old blather. We need new blather from you.

 

[SSDD]

Do you have anything new? Actual observations and measurements supporting your claims would be something new?

Do you have anything new?
Do you have any actual observation or measurements that say atomic physics is violated? Anything besides saying you don't believe in science, or anything besides saying you don't believe actual observation or measurements of science?

Same as always...do you have anything beyond your belief...someone else's belief....or the output of a model to support your claim that energy moves spontaneously both ways between a warm object and a cooler object? Anything at all. If you don't, simply say that you don't rather than this incessant string of logical fallacies...why can't you simply admit that you got nothing?

 

[SSDD]

This thread has worn itself out.

Anything new indeed, what hasn't been argued over yet?

On and on it goes to the point boring and Zzzzz......................

This thread has worn itself out.

Anything new indeed, what hasn't been argued over yet?

On and on it goes to the point boring and Zzzzz......................

It is boring beyond belief. Conversation with these guys follows a tired and predictable template..

Them: man made global warming is real...energy moves spontaneously in two directions...pick whatever unobserved, unmeasured, untested claim they like to make....every scientist of the past 100 years says so.

Me: Great. Care to show me some of the evidence upon which they based their belief upon?

Them: The models, observations, and measurements.

Me: Great. Lets see some of the observations and measurements.

Them: Every scientists of the past 100 years says so.

 

[SSDD]

SSDD only believes one thing in science and even that is wrong. C'mon SSDD give us a new physics phantasy theory so we can watch you lash out in anger at everyone and at science in general. We are getting bored of your old blather. We need new blather from you.

I don't have any fantasy...all I have is the second law of thermodynamics stating that energy only moves spontaneously in one direction....apply work and you can make it go in another direction...you say it isn't true, but then you can't provide any evidence to the contrary. All you can manage is appeals to authority who also has no evidence...or an attempt to validate the models with the output of the models...and that's it. You just go round and round chasing your tail...and when we get to the point that you are to produce the evidence you claim exists, you go back to the models validating themselves, or the same old fallacious appeal to authority. And the precious few examples you manage to think up are nothing more than you being fooled by instrumentation...how much weaker could your position possibly get?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This thread has worn itself out.

Anything new indeed, what hasn't been argued over yet?

On and on it goes to the point boring and Zzzzz......................

This thread has worn itself out.

Anything new indeed, what hasn't been argued over yet?

On and on it goes to the point boring and Zzzzz......................

It is boring beyond belief. Conversation with these guys follows a tired and predictable template..

Them: man made global warming is real...energy moves spontaneously in two directions...pick whatever unobserved, unmeasured, untested claim they like to make....every scientist of the past 100 years says so.

Me: Great. Care to show me some of the evidence upon which they based their belief upon?

Them: The models, observations, and measurements.

Me: Great. Lets see some of the observations and measurements.

Them: Every scientists of the past 100 years says so.

You: I have no sources that agree with my one-way flow of radiation

Me: No kidding. If you had any sources, you'd post them.

 

[Wuwei]

I don't have any fantasy...all I have is the second law of thermodynamics stating that energy only moves spontaneously in one direction....apply work and you can make it go in another direction...you say it isn't true, but then you can't provide any evidence to the contrary. All you can manage is appeals to authority who also has no evidence...or an attempt to validate the models with the output of the models...and that's it. You just go round and round chasing your tail...and when we get to the point that you are to produce the evidence you claim exists, you go back to the models validating themselves, or the same old fallacious appeal to authority. And the precious few examples you manage to think up are nothing more than you being fooled by instrumentation...how much weaker could your position possibly get?

Since you don't believe in physics, you have no basis for physics discussion except for anti-science trolling. You fantasize non-science in order to deny the CMB actually does hit the earth and was discovered by actual observed and measured experiments on earth. You have not proved otherwise. We are getting bored of your current anti-science mantras. Got anything new?

 

[jc456]

This thread has worn itself out.

Anything new indeed, what hasn't been argued over yet?

On and on it goes to the point boring and Zzzzz......................

This thread has worn itself out.

Anything new indeed, what hasn't been argued over yet?

On and on it goes to the point boring and Zzzzz......................

It is boring beyond belief. Conversation with these guys follows a tired and predictable template..

Them: man made global warming is real...energy moves spontaneously in two directions...pick whatever unobserved, unmeasured, untested claim they like to make....every scientist of the past 100 years says so.

Me: Great. Care to show me some of the evidence upon which they based their belief upon?

Them: The models, observations, and measurements.

Me: Great. Lets see some of the observations and measurements.

Them: Every scientists of the past 100 years says so.

You: I have no sources that agree with my one-way flow of radiation

Me: No kidding. If you had any sources, you'd post them.

SSDD: post observed measurements

you: you have no sources that show radiation cold to warm.

Me: still waiting.

 

[SSDD]

Since you don't believe in physics, you have no basis for physics discussion except for anti-science trolling. You fantasize non-science in order to deny the CMB actually does hit the earth and was discovered by actual observed and measured experiments on earth. You have not proved otherwise. We are getting bored of your current anti-science mantras. Got anything new?

"Believe" in physics? Are you kidding? The whole point of physics is to get beyond having to "believe". Belief is a religious term. Physics is about actual understanding via observation, experiment, testing and measurement. Physics doesn't require belief. Faith requires belief.

And again...its to bad that you can't grasp the concept of resonant frequencies.

And it is not me who is anti science. I am asking for you to provide evidence to support your claims...that is by definition, the way science works. You, on the other hand are asking me to believe...and when I won't take your claim on faith, you tell me that I don't "believe" in physics...as if physics required belief. Grab yourself a dictionary and look up the words physics and religion. Now tell me which one includes the word belief in the definition.

You are asking me to take a claim on faith with no actual observed, measured evidence in support of that claim....and as much as you wish it to be true...being fooled by instrumentation is not evidence.

 

[SSDD]

This thread has worn itself out.

Anything new indeed, what hasn't been argued over yet?

On and on it goes to the point boring and Zzzzz......................

This thread has worn itself out.

Anything new indeed, what hasn't been argued over yet?

On and on it goes to the point boring and Zzzzz......................

It is boring beyond belief. Conversation with these guys follows a tired and predictable template..

Them: man made global warming is real...energy moves spontaneously in two directions...pick whatever unobserved, unmeasured, untested claim they like to make....every scientist of the past 100 years says so.

Me: Great. Care to show me some of the evidence upon which they based their belief upon?

Them: The models, observations, and measurements.

Me: Great. Lets see some of the observations and measurements.

Them: Every scientists of the past 100 years says so.

You: I have no sources that agree with my one-way flow of radiation

Me: No kidding. If you had any sources, you'd post them.

SSDD: post observed measurements

you: you have no sources that show radiation cold to warm.

Me: still waiting.

At least he has finally got around to the crux of his position. Now he is telling me that I don't "believe" in physics. As if physics required belief. He has no evidence so he is asking me to believe and if I don't believe, then I must be an anti science heretic. What sort of science, exactly, requires belief?

 

[Crick]

I grasp the concept of resonant frequencies just fine. Did I miss the point where you explain how dozens of different receivers over years and years of observations all resonate to the exact same frequencies? And then you can explain how they all pass calibration. Let me guess. All RF devices ever made resonate in the exact same way.

And, BTW, a resonance curve looks nothing like the spectrum of the CMB.

 

[Wuwei]

Since you don't believe in physics, you have no basis for physics discussion except for anti-science trolling. You fantasize non-science in order to deny the CMB actually does hit the earth and was discovered by actual observed and measured experiments on earth. You have not proved otherwise. We are getting bored of your current anti-science mantras. Got anything new?

"Believe" in physics? Are you kidding? The whole point of physics is to get beyond having to "believe". Belief is a religious term. Physics is about actual understanding via observation, experiment, testing and measurement. Physics doesn't require belief. Faith requires belief.

And again...its to bad that you can't grasp the concept of resonant frequencies.

And it is not me who is anti science. I am asking for you to provide evidence to support your claims...that is by definition, the way science works. You, on the other hand are asking me to believe...and when I won't take your claim on faith, you tell me that I don't "believe" in physics...as if physics required belief. Grab yourself a dictionary and look up the words physics and religion. Now tell me which one includes the word belief in the definition.

You are asking me to take a claim on faith with no actual observed, measured evidence in support of that claim....and as much as you wish it to be true...being fooled by instrumentation is not evidence.

Nope, you have nothing new. Just the same distractions and troll mentality.

You don't like that use of the word belief? OK. I will reword it. You don't accept the mathematical models of physics as a method for codifying experimental observations and measurements. That's ironic since you misuse the models right and left.

to bad that you can't grasp the concept of resonant frequencies

You are just being a troll again. We all know that the cold radiation must come through the warm atmosphere to be detected by the resonant amplifiers. You are pretending to confuse the actual radiation with the detection method. But you already know that, and prefer to be a troll.

 

[jc456]

Since you don't believe in physics, you have no basis for physics discussion except for anti-science trolling. You fantasize non-science in order to deny th e CMB actually does hit the earth and was discovered by actual observed and measured experiments on earth. You have not proved otherwise. We are getting bored of your current anti-science mantras. Got anything new?

"Believe" in physics? Are you kidding? The whole point of physics is to get beyond having to "believe". Belief is a religious term. Physics is about actual understanding via observation, experiment, testing and measurement. Physics doesn't require belief. Faith requires belief.

And again...its to bad that you can't grasp the concept of resonant frequencies.

And it is not me who is anti science. I am asking for you to provide evidence to support your claims...that is by definition, the way science works. You, on the other hand are asking me to believe...and when I won't take your claim on faith, you tell me that I don't "believe" in physics...as if physics required belief. Grab yourself a dictionary and look up the words physics and religion. Now tell me which one includes the word belief in the definition.

You are asking me to take a claim on faith with no actual observed, measured evidence in support of that claim....and as much as you wish it to be true...being fooled by instrumentation is not evidence.

Nope, you have nothing new. Just the same distractions and troll mentality.

You don't like that use of the word belief? OK. I will reword it. You don't accept the mathematical models of physics as a method for codifying experimental observations and measurements. That's ironic since you misuse the models right and left.

to bad that you can't grasp the concept of resonant frequencies

You are just being a troll again. We all know that the cold radiation must come through the warm atmosphere to be detected by the resonant amplifiers. You are pretending to confuse the actual radiation with the detection method. But you already know that, and prefer to be a troll.

Wow, look at you, how many posts now has SSDD stated all you have is a mathematical model and to actually post observed measured results? And still you fail to provide observations showing energy moving spontaneously from cold to warm. Fk dude, must be over 50 posts asking for that observation evidence. Still nothing. And if radiation must come through the atmosphere, then you should have observation of that! Post it. That wouldn’t be a mathematical model. Instead, it would be actually measured. I get it that confuses you

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This thread has worn itself out.

Anything new indeed, what hasn't been argued over yet?

On and on it goes to the point boring and Zzzzz......................

This thread has worn itself out.

Anything new indeed, what hasn't been argued over yet?

On and on it goes to the point boring and Zzzzz......................

It is boring beyond belief. Conversation with these guys follows a tired and predictable template..

Them: man made global warming is real...energy moves spontaneously in two directions...pick whatever unobserved, unmeasured, untested claim they like to make....every scientist of the past 100 years says so.

Me: Great. Care to show me some of the evidence upon which they based their belief upon?

Them: The models, observations, and measurements.

Me: Great. Lets see some of the observations and measurements.

Them: Every scientists of the past 100 years says so.

You: I have no sources that agree with my one-way flow of radiation

Me: No kidding. If you had any sources, you'd post them.

SSDD: post observed measurements

you: you have no sources that show radiation cold to warm.

Me: still waiting.

At least he has finally got around to the crux of his position. Now he is telling me that I don't "believe" in physics. As if physics required belief. He has no evidence so he is asking me to believe and if I don't believe, then I must be an anti science heretic. What sort of science, exactly, requires belief?

Now he is telling me that I don't "believe" in physics.

You believe in physics. Your confused, unique version.
All alone. No backup. No proof.

Weird.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Since you don't believe in physics, you have no basis for physics discussion except for anti-science trolling. You fantasize non-science in order to deny th e CMB actually does hit the earth and was discovered by actual observed and measured experiments on earth. You have not proved otherwise. We are getting bored of your current anti-science mantras. Got anything new?

"Believe" in physics? Are you kidding? The whole point of physics is to get beyond having to "believe". Belief is a religious term. Physics is about actual understanding via observation, experiment, testing and measurement. Physics doesn't require belief. Faith requires belief.

And again...its to bad that you can't grasp the concept of resonant frequencies.

And it is not me who is anti science. I am asking for you to provide evidence to support your claims...that is by definition, the way science works. You, on the other hand are asking me to believe...and when I won't take your claim on faith, you tell me that I don't "believe" in physics...as if physics required belief. Grab yourself a dictionary and look up the words physics and religion. Now tell me which one includes the word belief in the definition.

You are asking me to take a claim on faith with no actual observed, measured evidence in support of that claim....and as much as you wish it to be true...being fooled by instrumentation is not evidence.

Nope, you have nothing new. Just the same distractions and troll mentality.

You don't like that use of the word belief? OK. I will reword it. You don't accept the mathematical models of physics as a method for codifying experimental observations and measurements. That's ironic since you misuse the models right and left.

to bad that you can't grasp the concept of resonant frequencies

You are just being a troll again. We all know that the cold radiation must come through the warm atmosphere to be detected by the resonant amplifiers. You are pretending to confuse the actual radiation with the detection method. But you already know that, and prefer to be a troll.

Wow, look at you, how many posts now has SSDD stated all you have is a mathematical model and to actually post observed measured results? And still you fail to provide observations showing energy moving spontaneously from cold to warm. Fk dude, must be over 50 posts asking for that observation evidence. Still nothing. And if radiation must come through the atmosphere, then you should have observation of that! Post it. That wouldn’t be a mathematical model. Instead, it would be actually measured. I get it that confuses you

how many posts now has SSDD stated all you have is a mathematical model and to actually post observed measured results?

CMB was discovered using an actual telescope receiving actual radiation.

And if radiation must come through the atmosphere, then you should have observation of that!

Discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation - Wikipedia

 

[jc456]

Since you don't believe in physics, you have no basis for physics discussion except for anti-science trolling. You fantasize non-science in order to deny th e CMB actually does hit the earth and was discovered by actual observed and measured experiments on earth. You have not proved otherwise. We are getting bored of your current anti-science mantras. Got anything new?

"Believe" in physics? Are you kidding? The whole point of physics is to get beyond having to "believe". Belief is a religious term. Physics is about actual understanding via observation, experiment, testing and measurement. Physics doesn't require belief. Faith requires belief.

And again...its to bad that you can't grasp the concept of resonant frequencies.

And it is not me who is anti science. I am asking for you to provide evidence to support your claims...that is by definition, the way science works. You, on the other hand are asking me to believe...and when I won't take your claim on faith, you tell me that I don't "believe" in physics...as if physics required belief. Grab yourself a dictionary and look up the words physics and religion. Now tell me which one includes the word belief in the definition.

You are asking me to take a claim on faith with no actual observed, measured evidence in support of that claim....and as much as you wish it to be true...being fooled by instrumentation is not evidence.

Nope, you have nothing new. Just the same distractions and troll mentality.

You don't like that use of the word belief? OK. I will reword it. You don't accept the mathematical models of physics as a method for codifying experimental observations and measurements. That's ironic since you misuse the models right and left.

to bad that you can't grasp the concept of resonant frequencies

You are just being a troll again. We all know that the cold radiation must come through the warm atmosphere to be detected by the resonant amplifiers. You are pretending to confuse the actual radiation with the detection method. But you already know that, and prefer to be a troll.

Wow, look at you, how many posts now has SSDD stated all you have is a mathematical model and to actually post observed measured results? And still you fail to provide observations showing energy moving spontaneously from cold to warm. Fk dude, must be over 50 posts asking for that observation evidence. Still nothing. And if radiation must come through the atmosphere, then you should have observation of that! Post it. That wouldn’t be a mathematical model. Instead, it would be actually measured. I get it that confuses you

how many posts now has SSDD stated all you have is a mathematical model and to actually post observed measured results?

CMB was discovered using an actual telescope receiving actual radiation.

And if radiation must come through the atmosphere, then you should have observation of that!

Discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation - Wikipedia

asked and answered by him. Explained as well. In fact, as I stated, at least 50 times. so, the option is to either accept his response or find another option for discussion. cause all you're doing is repeating yourself over and over and over and over. You do know that right?

And since you can't seem to pull anything else, I supposed you will never convince him or me about energy moving from cold to warm spontaneously.

 

[jc456]

Since you don't believe in physics, you have no basis for physics discussion except for anti-science trolling. You fantasize non-science in order to deny th e CMB actually does hit the earth and was discovered by actual observed and measured experiments on earth. You have not proved otherwise. We are getting bored of your current anti-science mantras. Got anything new?

"Believe" in physics? Are you kidding? The whole point of physics is to get beyond having to "believe". Belief is a religious term. Physics is about actual understanding via observation, experiment, testing and measurement. Physics doesn't require belief. Faith requires belief.

And again...its to bad that you can't grasp the concept of resonant frequencies.

And it is not me who is anti science. I am asking for you to provide evidence to support your claims...that is by definition, the way science works. You, on the other hand are asking me to believe...and when I won't take your claim on faith, you tell me that I don't "believe" in physics...as if physics required belief. Grab yourself a dictionary and look up the words physics and religion. Now tell me which one includes the word belief in the definition.

You are asking me to take a claim on faith with no actual observed, measured evidence in support of that claim....and as much as you wish it to be true...being fooled by instrumentation is not evidence.

Nope, you have nothing new. Just the same distractions and troll mentality.

You don't like that use of the word belief? OK. I will reword it. You don't accept the mathematical models of physics as a method for codifying experimental observations and measurements. That's ironic since you misuse the models right and left.

to bad that you can't grasp the concept of resonant frequencies

You are just being a troll again. We all know that the cold radiation must come through the warm atmosphere to be detected by the resonant amplifiers. You are pretending to confuse the actual radiation with the detection method. But you already know that, and prefer to be a troll.

Wow, look at you, how many posts now has SSDD stated all you have is a mathematical model and to actually post observed measured results? And still you fail to provide observations showing energy moving spontaneously from cold to warm. Fk dude, must be over 50 posts asking for that observation evidence. Still nothing. And if radiation must come through the atmosphere, then you should have observation of that! Post it. That wouldn’t be a mathematical model. Instead, it would be actually measured. I get it that confuses you

how many posts now has SSDD stated all you have is a mathematical model and to actually post observed measured results?

CMB was discovered using an actual telescope receiving actual radiation.

And if radiation must come through the atmosphere, then you should have observation of that!

Discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation - Wikipedia

asked and answered by him. Explained as well. In fact, as I stated, at least 50 times. so, the option is to either accept his response or find another option for discussion. cause all you're doing is repeating yourself over and over and over and over. You do know that right?

And since you can't seem to pull anything else, I supposed you will never convince him or me about energy moving from cold to warm spontaneously.

BTW, still want to know why a pop can in a freezer doesn't get warmer.

 

[Wuwei]

has been thoroughly explained that what was recorded at that radio telescope was a resonant radio frequency...not CMB

A warm telescope at the bottom of a warmer atmosphere detected colder photons that didn't hit the telescope?

Wow!

Your explanation is a bit terse for those unfamiliar with the process. I will give a little detail on the CMB:

The Cosmic Microwave Background 101.

1. Radiation comes from a cold cosmic source at 2.7 degrees above absolute zero.
   
   
2. It penetrates to the earth surface at 300 degrees above absolute zero.
   
   
3. It then strikes a reflector at 300 degrees above absolute zero.
   
   
4. It focuses on a resonantly tuned amplifier at 4 degrees above absolute zero.
   
   
5. Those resonant radio frequency are recorded at several frequencies.
   
   
6. It was an observed, measured, repeatable experiment of radiation of a colder source hitting a warmer object.

SSDD admitted that many times, for example,

it has been thoroughly explained that what was recorded at that radio telescope was a resonant radio frequency.

We all agree with SSDD's statement. Compare step 5 above with his quote.

Why does SSDD deny the experiment? He never stated why. He just keeps trolling the same non-sequitur about step 5 being true, but step 6 being false. That is one characteristic of a troll.

That is clearly radiation from a much colder 2.7 degree K source hitting a much warmer 300 degree K detector. It was an observed, measured, repeated experiment. There are no theories, or models used in that experiment; just measurements.

Will it warm ice cubes? Not by a long shot. The earth radiates much more energy than it receives, so total energy moves from the warm earth to the cold source, and total energy never moves from the cold source to the earth. The second law is never violated.

 

[jc456]

has been thoroughly explained that what was recorded at that radio telescope was a resonant radio frequency...not CMB

A warm telescope at the bottom of a warmer atmosphere detected colder photons that didn't hit the telescope?

Wow!

Your explanation is a bit terse for those unfamiliar with the process. I will give a little detail on the CMB:

The Cosmic Microwave Background 101.

1. Radiation comes from a cold cosmic source at 2.7 degrees above absolute zero.
   
   
2. It penetrates to the earth surface at 300 degrees above absolute zero.
   
   
3. It then strikes a reflector at 300 degrees above absolute zero.
   
   
4. It focuses on a resonantly tuned amplifier at 4 degrees above absolute zero.
   
   
5. Those resonant radio frequency are recorded at several frequencies.
   
   
6. It was an observed, measured, repeatable experiment of radiation of a colder source hitting a warmer object.

SSDD admitted that many times, for example,

it has been thoroughly explained that what was recorded at that radio telescope was a resonant radio frequency.

We all agree with SSDD's statement. Compare step 5 above with his quote.

Why does SSDD deny the experiment? He never stated why. He just keeps trolling the same non-sequitur about step 5 being true, but step 6 being false. That is one characteristic of a troll.

That is clearly radiation from a much colder 2.7 degree K source hitting a much warmer 300 degree K detector. It was an observed, measured, repeated experiment. There are no theories, or models used in that experiment; just measurements.

Will it warm ice cubes? Not by a long shot. The earth radiates much more energy than it receives, so total energy moves from the warm earth to the cold source, and total energy never moves from the cold source to the earth. The second law is never violated.

well he did and you choose to ignore him. just saying.

 

[Wuwei]

well he did and choose to ignore him. just saying.

Your objection is not clear.

 

[jc456]

well he did and choose to ignore him. just saying.

Your objection is not clear.

fixed.