Questions on Decriminalization/Legalization movement

[Harry Dresden]

Even if it did happen, aren't the cons the ones talking about small government not making our choices for us? Apparently they only meant government should only allow us to make the right choices and they should step right in when we don't.

I'm anti-pot. It may not be physically addictive, but it's certainly mentally addictive. However, I actually meant it when I said I want government should allow us to make our own choices, and I meant it if we make the right or the wrong ones...

Oh I'm with you, and don't really care if someone is anti-pot. That's your life. What I do have a problem with is when someone is anti-pot and wants to make it illegal for everyone else who might not be.

I will say though that marijuana is a fine alternative to drinking. It relaxes you, it generally will help you see things in new ways, it forces you to be introspective, and it really doesn't last all that long. If you ingest it, there are virtually zero negative physical side effects (unlike alcohol, which destroys the liver amongst other things).

Also, want to add that most GOOD things are mentally addicting (like reading a good book, or biking, or drawing, or making music, etc). Sex is addicting. Doesn't mean those are bad things; you just need to learn (like anything else) to do them in moderation.

Anyways, if you're against prohibition than we have no beef. Your life is your life.

I think all drugs should be legal, so as you said from that perspective we have no disagreement.

Just on the use of pot though, I would agree that for people who truly only smoke it on a Friday night with friends instead of drinking, I don't see a difference. However, it's a poor analogy to your examples of books, biking, ... For regular pot users, they are using pot to retard their natural mental development. I see people who use pot and say it's the same, but they smoke it in the morning and during the day on weekdays. Only serious alcoholics do that. Other than true, social pot smokers, I think pot smokers are deluding themselves.

However, again, that is not an appropriate choice for government any more than the decision to have cake and ice cream for dinner.

i dont know how many parties i went too were the people there were sitting in the living room smoking pot with maybe a beer or two or something else .....and how many Frat parties i went to where they had a Keg of Beer in the back and just about everyone was getting buzzed.....guess which one the cops got called too every time, because of the noise and sometimes because of the fights that broke out?.....

 

[KevinWestern]

i dont know how many parties i went too were the people there were sitting in the living room smoking pot with maybe a beer or two or something else .....and how many Frat parties i went to where they had a Keg of Beer in the back and just about everyone was getting buzzed.....guess which one the cops got called too every time, because of the noise and sometimes because of the fights that broke out?.....

Yep, those two drugs are entirely different animals. Alcohol removes inhibitions while marijuana can often make you frighteningly aware of them, lol.

From a "safety" perspective, the former is much more dangerous.


.

 

[Harry Dresden]

It doesn't make everyone psychotic, but it has been known to trigger psychotic episodes in people with mental disorders. Numerous studies have shown that.

So government should make everyone's choices for them?

BTW, have you noticed that even high school kids can get all the pot they want? Have you notice we're funding organized crime? Have you seen what we've done to endlessly destabalize countries like Columbia and Afghanistan? Is there some point where in the effort to make people's choices for them, we realize the cost of making people's choices of them is incredibly high, and then doesn't even work?

Have you noticed people can murder people too? Guess we better make that legal

tapatalk post

so why are you avoiding my simple little question i asked you a while back?...

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Cannabis is not a drug, nor is it addictive. It is deliberately mischaracterized by the DEA.

Simple answer: government needs to stop lying about it.

Some would disagree.

Psychology Today:

Even though the physiological effects of cannabis withdrawal are generally mild, it is not correct to conclude that marijuana is not addictive, because being addicted to something is more than simply being physically dependent on a drug and experiencing physiological effects if the drug is stopped suddenly. “Addiction” refers to behaviors that are compulsive, partially out of control or worse, and often escalating in severity and intensity.

National Institute on Drug Abuse

Contrary to common belief, marijuana is addictive. Estimates from research suggest that about 9 percent of users become addicted to marijuana; this number increases among those who start young (to about 17 percent, or 1 in 6) and among people who use marijuana daily (to 25-50 percent).

 

[Harry Dresden]

[...]

I'm anti-pot. It may not be physically addictive, but it's certainly mentally addictive. However, I actually meant it when I said I want government to allow us make our own choices over our own lies and our own bodies, and I meant it if we make the right or the wrong choices...

You've got it almost right, so let's trim the rough edge.

Marijuana is "mentally addictive" -- but only where those affected by the addictive personality are concerned. These are individuals who are inclined to addiction and will throughout their tormented lives become addicted to everything from chocolate to alcohol, sex, and/or opiates. And somewhere along the line they will pick up on marijuana.

The infamous "gateway drug" notion is attributed to this category because it is assumed their addictive progress began with marijuana when in fact it could have started with Hershey bars, cigarettes, beer, or any number of things. I knew someone who once drove fifteen miles to an all-night convenience store at 3AM to buy Coca Cola. She also was "addicted" to marijuana and cocaine. I will assume that by now, presuming she's still alive, she has progressed to heroin and amphetamines.

Fortunately the addictive personality is uncommon. So to think of marijuana as being mentally addictive in the general sense is a mistake.

Good point, Mike. I like you don't really buy the gateway drug argument, and for that reason. BTW, I smoked pot in High School and for a couple years in college. It was the seventies, pot was everywhere. I also do believe what they say and that it's a lot more potent now. I never did any other drugs and had no interest in doing so. However, I do think my starting to grow up and quitting smoking pot are not unrelated.

i stopped smoking it because it became a pain in the ass to get it......it was a lot easier when i was a lot younger......as i got older it got harder....so i said **** it....dont need it anyway.....

 

[kaz]

You've got it almost right, so let's trim the rough edge.

Marijuana is "mentally addictive" -- but only where those affected by the addictive personality are concerned. These are individuals who are inclined to addiction and will throughout their tormented lives become addicted to everything from chocolate to alcohol, sex, and/or opiates. And somewhere along the line they will pick up on marijuana.

The infamous "gateway drug" notion is attributed to this category because it is assumed their addictive progress began with marijuana when in fact it could have started with Hershey bars, cigarettes, beer, or any number of things. I knew someone who once drove fifteen miles to an all-night convenience store at 3AM to buy Coca Cola. She also was "addicted" to marijuana and cocaine. I will assume that by now, presuming she's still alive, she has progressed to heroin and amphetamines.

Fortunately the addictive personality is uncommon. So to think of marijuana as being mentally addictive in the general sense is a mistake.

Good point, Mike. I like you don't really buy the gateway drug argument, and for that reason. BTW, I smoked pot in High School and for a couple years in college. It was the seventies, pot was everywhere. I also do believe what they say and that it's a lot more potent now. I never did any other drugs and had no interest in doing so. However, I do think my starting to grow up and quitting smoking pot are not unrelated.

i stopped smoking it because it became a pain in the ass to get it......it was a lot easier when i was a lot younger......as i got older it got harder....so i said **** it....dont need it anyway.....

Also for me, the jobs I had always had me sign they had the right to random drug testing. As I was in management, a positive test would have definitely meant I was fired. No one ever randomly drug tested me, but I wasn't taking the chance.

 

[kaz]

Oh I'm with you, and don't really care if someone is anti-pot. That's your life. What I do have a problem with is when someone is anti-pot and wants to make it illegal for everyone else who might not be.

I will say though that marijuana is a fine alternative to drinking. It relaxes you, it generally will help you see things in new ways, it forces you to be introspective, and it really doesn't last all that long. If you ingest it, there are virtually zero negative physical side effects (unlike alcohol, which destroys the liver amongst other things).

Also, want to add that most GOOD things are mentally addicting (like reading a good book, or biking, or drawing, or making music, etc). Sex is addicting. Doesn't mean those are bad things; you just need to learn (like anything else) to do them in moderation.

Anyways, if you're against prohibition than we have no beef. Your life is your life.

I think all drugs should be legal, so as you said from that perspective we have no disagreement.

Just on the use of pot though, I would agree that for people who truly only smoke it on a Friday night with friends instead of drinking, I don't see a difference. However, it's a poor analogy to your examples of books, biking, ... For regular pot users, they are using pot to retard their natural mental development. I see people who use pot and say it's the same, but they smoke it in the morning and during the day on weekdays. Only serious alcoholics do that. Other than true, social pot smokers, I think pot smokers are deluding themselves.

However, again, that is not an appropriate choice for government any more than the decision to have cake and ice cream for dinner.

i dont know how many parties i went too were the people there were sitting in the living room smoking pot with maybe a beer or two or something else .....and how many Frat parties i went to where they had a Keg of Beer in the back and just about everyone was getting buzzed.....guess which one the cops got called too every time, because of the noise and sometimes because of the fights that broke out?.....

I'm not sure the difference in those scenarios was really pot versus alcohol though

 

[KevinWestern]

Cannabis is not a drug, nor is it addictive. It is deliberately mischaracterized by the DEA.

Simple answer: government needs to stop lying about it.

Some would disagree.

Psychology Today:

Even though the physiological effects of cannabis withdrawal are generally mild, it is not correct to conclude that marijuana is not addictive, because being addicted to something is more than simply being physically dependent on a drug and experiencing physiological effects if the drug is stopped suddenly. “Addiction” refers to behaviors that are compulsive, partially out of control or worse, and often escalating in severity and intensity.

National Institute on Drug Abuse

Contrary to common belief, marijuana is addictive. Estimates from research suggest that about 9 percent of users become addicted to marijuana; this number increases among those who start young (to about 17 percent, or 1 in 6) and among people who use marijuana daily (to 25-50 percent).

But, lonestar is the "addictiveness" of something generally the key reason for making it illegal? For locking people up because they used it?

I don't think so, and I think that method of approach is faulty and would most definitely be met with numerous contradictions if it were to be applied to all laws.

Coffee can be highly addictive, sex can be highly addictive, video games can be highly addictive, tobacco can be highly addictive, alcohol can be highly addictive, mayonnaise can be highly addictive, etc.

Get my point?

 

[KevinWestern]

I'm not sure the difference in those scenarios was really pot versus alcohol though

True, but...

I won't speak for all people, but must say (however) that via my own personal experiences with the two is that I generally will do and say many more things that I will "regret" later while drinking. I would like to believe that people will tend to agree with me on this.

Anyone else?

 

[Rocko]

Rocko, that's the reasoning they used in the 1930's (as I'm sure you've heard) with reefer madness. I thought that we had come a long way since that movie but you're proving me wrong.

Marijuana is everywhere, and everyone smokes it. If it made people psychotic we would know about it pretty concretely by now, just as if alcohol or coffee made people permanently psychotic.

It doesn't make everyone psychotic, but it has been known to trigger psychotic episodes in people with mental disorders. Numerous studies have shown that.

water can trigger a psychotic episode in SOME people.

Wanna start a "war on water"???

That's absurd! Link please?

There's an interesting study on water to come out recently. It was concluded that all people need to drink water to survive. Go figure. The inconvenient truth for some of the potheads here is there is a proven link between psychosis and pot, in particularly regarding people suffering from schizophrenia. Do some research on the subject. As a matter of fact is very possible that pot contributed to the actions of jared loughner and many more like him.

 

[KevinWestern]

There's an interesting study on water to come out recently. It was concluded that all people need to drink water to survive. Go figure. The inconvenient truth for some of the potheads here is there is a proven link between psychosis and pot, in particularly regarding people suffering from schizophrenia. Do some research on the subject. As a matter of fact is very possible that pot contributed to the actions of jared loughner and many more like him.

But Rocko, I don't suffer from Schizophrenia. In fact, a very small percentage of the population does. Why should my liberties be reduced because a very small percentage of schizophrenics can't "handle" marijuana? Makes no sense.

Let's make a deal, if I smoke and then rape, pillage, murder, kidnap, steal, extort, launder money, or assault the elderly THEN you can throw me in jail or arrest me.

But if I smoke peacefully in my home, you leave me alone.

OK?

 

[Rocko]

There's an interesting study on water to come out recently. It was concluded that all people need to drink water to survive. Go figure. The inconvenient truth for some of the potheads here is there is a proven link between psychosis and pot, in particularly regarding people suffering from schizophrenia. Do some research on the subject. As a matter of fact is very possible that pot contributed to the actions of jared loughner and many more like him.

But Rocko, I don't suffer from Schizophrenia. In fact, a very small percentage of the population does.

Why should an everyday taxpaying citizen be fined or arrested by a police officer because he/she decides to smoke marijuana in his/her freetime? The "other" laws are not suspended if I were to smoke, lol; if I raped, pillaged, stole, murdered, or kidnapped while under the influence I will be thrown in jail - I assure you.

But arrested simply for purchasing the plant? Arrested for smoking peacefully?

That is absurd.

You may not suffer from it, but a lot of people do, and if one of them stab you after being in a pot induce psychotic episode, then it becomes everyone's problem, doesn't it?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Cannabis is not a drug, nor is it addictive. It is deliberately mischaracterized by the DEA.

Simple answer: government needs to stop lying about it.

Some would disagree.

Psychology Today:



National Institute on Drug Abuse

Contrary to common belief, marijuana is addictive. Estimates from research suggest that about 9 percent of users become addicted to marijuana; this number increases among those who start young (to about 17 percent, or 1 in 6) and among people who use marijuana daily (to 25-50 percent).

But, lonestar is the "addictiveness" of something generally the key reason for making it illegal? For locking people up because they used it?

I don't think so, and I think that method of approach is faulty and would most definitely be met with numerous contradictions if it were to be applied to all laws.

Coffee can be highly addictive, sex can be highly addictive, video games can be highly addictive, tobacco can be highly addictive, alcohol can be highly addictive, mayonnaise can be highly addictive, etc.

Get my point?

I'm not arguing either way. I was just pointing out the fact that there are some people that say it is addictive.

 

[KevinWestern]

You may not suffer from it, but a lot of people do, and if one of them stab you after being in a pot induce psychotic episode, then it becomes everyone's problem, doesn't it?

First of all, if you stab someone and it's not self defense you're going to jail. There's already a law designed to prevent that. We don't need another "layer" of law.

As I mentioned, why am I - a hardworking, taxpaying American - not allowed to smoke marijuana in the comfort of my own home? Again, if I break the law while smoking I'll be content with going to jail. The laws still apply. But to smoke peacefully? Why is that prohibited?

 

[Katzndogz]

As long as you do not have children or pets, there nothing prohibitive about smoking pot while confined. No going out in public while it's in your system. deadly force against a pot user is always acceptable.

 

[Rocko]

You may not suffer from it, but a lot of people do, and if one of them stab you after being in a pot induce psychotic episode, then it becomes everyone's problem, doesn't it?

First of all, if you stab someone and it's not self defense you're going to jail. There's already a law designed to prevent that. We don't need another "layer" of law.

As I mentioned, why am I - a hardworking, taxpaying American - not allowed to smoke marijuana in the comfort of my own home? Again, if I break the law while smoking I'll be content with going to jail. The laws still apply. But to smoke peacefully? Why is that prohibited?

The benefit from granting people like you the freedom to smoke a joint doesn't outweigh the harm caused to society by mentally ill people smoking. Besides smoking pot is bad for everyone. Yes it does have a few medicinal purposes, and should be used in those rare circumstances, but by in large it's harmful to everyone.

 

[BlindBoo]

Some would disagree.

Psychology Today:



National Institute on Drug Abuse

But, lonestar is the "addictiveness" of something generally the key reason for making it illegal? For locking people up because they used it?

I don't think so, and I think that method of approach is faulty and would most definitely be met with numerous contradictions if it were to be applied to all laws.

Coffee can be highly addictive, sex can be highly addictive, video games can be highly addictive, tobacco can be highly addictive, alcohol can be highly addictive, mayonnaise can be highly addictive, etc.

Get my point?

I'm not arguing either way. I was just pointing out the fact that there are some people that say it is addictive.

I don't think there is an argument that it can be psychologically addictive to some people, is there?

 

[Rocko]

As long as you do not have children or pets, there nothing prohibitive about smoking pot while confined. No going out in public while it's in your system. deadly force against a pot user is always acceptable.

Doesn't it stay in your system for weeks?

 

[Katzndogz]

As long as you do not have children or pets, there nothing prohibitive about smoking pot while confined. No going out in public while it's in your system. deadly force against a pot user is always acceptable.

Doesn't it stay in your system for weeks?

Yes it does. So what? They stay confined.

 

[BlindBoo]

As long as you do not have children or pets, there nothing prohibitive about smoking pot while confined. No going out in public while it's in your system. deadly force against a pot user is always acceptable.

Ya Volyt Comandant!!!!!Sieg Heil!!!!!!