Questions for those that would ban 'assault weapons'

[WinterBorn]

Long guns and pistols with semi-automatic firing systems are widely used in drive by shootings and are the weapon of choice in mass shootings. What puts the "mass" in mass shooting? The ability to spray as many rounds as quickly as possible.

Bolt action rifles are sporting guns. Pump action shotguns are sporting guns. Even some revolvers are sporting guns. But semi-automatics are designed to kill human beings. As many human beings as possible in the shortest possible time. They are NOT sporting guns, but weapons designed for a battlefield.

And without a criminal to operate them, they are simply mechanical objects.

Oh, and I have hunted rabbits with a semi-auto handgun on numerous occasions. The Ruger Mk II is an excellent small game hunting gun and an even better target piece.

People also hunt with semi-auto rifles, and have for years. Remington make a couple of nice rifles for deer hunting that are semi-auto.

Are all gun deaths at the hands of criminals? If they are, why would anyone oppose a back ground check in order to keep the criminal from owning a gun? When a kid picks up a gun and snuffs out his life because the gun cultured idiot parent of hers did not properly secure it, is it a problem of inadequate safes, or is it indeed a gun? Is there a connection between guns and gun violence?

Actually, many of the accidental deaths involving firearms can be laid at the feet of the anti-gun crowd. In times past, we as a culture did not fear or go nuts about guns like we do now. The fact that children have been suspended from school for drawing guns on paper, pointing their fingers, or (god forbid) eating a poptart in such a way as to leave a gun shaped pastry. Children were routinely taught gun safety.

The parents who leave loaded guns where children without safety training can get them are guilty of negligent homicide. But the gun itself is not to blame. And certainly the gun owner who stores his firearms properly should not be punished.

The gun culture is overwhelmingly safety oriented. Go to a gun range and violate a safety rule if you do not believe me. Leaving a loaded firearm out where a child is NOT part of any gun culture to which I belong or have been exposed to in my life.

 

[WinterBorn]

Long guns and pistols with semi-automatic firing systems are widely used in drive by shootings and are the weapon of choice in mass shootings. What puts the "mass" in mass shooting? The ability to spray as many rounds as quickly as possible.

Bolt action rifles are sporting guns. Pump action shotguns are sporting guns. Even some revolvers are sporting guns. But semi-automatics are designed to kill human beings. As many human beings as possible in the shortest possible time. They are NOT sporting guns, but weapons designed for a battlefield.

And without a criminal to operate them, they are simply mechanical objects.

Oh, and I have hunted rabbits with a semi-auto handgun on numerous occasions. The Ruger Mk II is an excellent small game hunting gun and an even better target piece.

People also hunt with semi-auto rifles, and have for years. Remington make a couple of nice rifles for deer hunting that are semi-auto.

Are all gun deaths at the hands of criminals? If they are, why would anyone oppose a back ground check in order to keep the criminal from owning a gun? When a kid picks up a gun and snuffs out his life because the gun cultured idiot parent of hers did not properly secure it, is it a problem of inadequate safes, or is it indeed a gun? Is there a connection between guns and gun violence?

I do not oppose background checks. I simply think they can be circumvented relatively easily.

Why not keep the violent criminals in prison? That would do far more to save lives than any gun ban. Remove the mandatory sentencing for nonviolent drug crimes and you would free up enough space to keep the murderers and violent criminals in jail where they belong.

 

[Skull Pilot]

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Batting Around

Claim: More homicides in the U.S. are committed with baseball bats than with firearms.


FALSE


Examples: [Collected via e-mail, December 2012]

I have seen that the FBI says that more people are killed by baseball bats than by firearms. Is this true?


What percentage of homicides are committed via baseball bats verses guns?


I'm told that baseball bats kill more people annually than guns. I can't believe that is true.


More people are killed each year by baseball bats than by guns. [true or false]


Origins: In any debate about gun control in the U.S., someone will inevitably make the argument that "[X] kills more people than guns do" (where [X] is anything from automobiles to scissors to sharks), with the implication that gun control advocates are too narrowly focused on one issue while ignoring other, greater threats to public safety.

One common form of this argument which is often invoked after a prominent incident brings the subject of gun control to the forefront of public discussion (such as the December 2012 shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut) is the claim that more people are killed by baseball bats than by firearms, an assertion typically cited as a truism which is borne out by FBI statistics.

However, information gathered by the FBI does not support this claim. The Uniform Crime Reports made available on the "Crime in the U.S." section of the FBI's web site includes homicide data that breaks down killings by the types of weapons used. In 2011, the percentages for weapon types used in homicides throughout the U.S. were as follows:
Firearms: 67.8%
Knives or other cutting instruments: 13.4%
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.): 5.7%
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.): 3.9%
Other dangerous weapons: 9.2%
The FBI doesn't offer data showing the latter categories broken down into more detail, so it isn't possible to determine from this source exactly what percentage of homicides in 2011 involved the use of baseball bats. But even if one were to assume that every single homicide in the "blunt objects" category was committed with a baseball bat (almost certainly a very large overestimate), firearm-related homicides would still outnumber bat-related homicides by a ratio of more than sixteen to one.

The FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reports (tabulated in simple form on the Bureau of Justice web site) make the distinction even clearer. In each year of the last several decades, the number of homicides in which firearms were used has been about ten to sixteen times greater than the number of homicides in which a blunt object (such as a baseball bat) was the weapon of choice:


Read more at snopes.com: Gun Deaths vs. Baseball Bat Deaths


Snopes says someone is lying about ball bats and guns.

Hey Moron I said rifles of any kind.

This thread is about rifles is it not?

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

In 2011 323 people were killed with rifles, 1694 with knives, 496 with blunt objects (incl baseball bats), and 728 with fists or feet.

As i said rifles are not the problem and have never been the problem.

 

[Nosmo King]

And without a criminal to operate them, they are simply mechanical objects.

Oh, and I have hunted rabbits with a semi-auto handgun on numerous occasions. The Ruger Mk II is an excellent small game hunting gun and an even better target piece.

People also hunt with semi-auto rifles, and have for years. Remington make a couple of nice rifles for deer hunting that are semi-auto.

Are all gun deaths at the hands of criminals? If they are, why would anyone oppose a back ground check in order to keep the criminal from owning a gun? When a kid picks up a gun and snuffs out his life because the gun cultured idiot parent of hers did not properly secure it, is it a problem of inadequate safes, or is it indeed a gun? Is there a connection between guns and gun violence?

Actually, many of the accidental deaths involving firearms can be laid at the feet of the anti-gun crowd. In times past, we as a culture did not fear or go nuts about guns like we do now. The fact that children have been suspended from school for drawing guns on paper, pointing their fingers, or (god forbid) eating a poptart in such a way as to leave a gun shaped pastry. Children were routinely taught gun safety.

The parents who leave loaded guns where children without safety training can get them are guilty of negligent homicide. But the gun itself is not to blame. And certainly the gun owner who stores his firearms properly should not be punished.

The gun culture is overwhelmingly safety oriented. Go to a gun range and violate a safety rule if you do not believe me. Leaving a loaded firearm out where a child is NOT part of any gun culture to which I belong or have been exposed to in my life.

Some of us have had nothing but rewarding experiences with guns. Others have had nothing but tragic experiences with guns.

Back in the 1970s, gun manufacturers introduced the Saturday Night Special, do you remember that? Cheap, easily concealable handguns with one idea in mind when designed: to kill human beings. Then the popular culture exploded with movies and television programs that glorified gun use. "Do ya feel lucky Punk?" The Rambo franchise. Die Hard and other action films made firing guns cool to the generation born after the advent of the Saturday Night Special.

Opie Taylor and his Pa used guns while hunting. No one had a problem. But when the A Team went hunting, they did not pack a shot gun.

I'm not big on blaming pop culture for gun violence. I do blame gun makers for evil inventions and modifications that made guns fashionable among a certain sub-set of Americans. I do blame gun deaths on the presence of guns, not gun shaped pastries. I do blame the gun culture for stating guns are not the problem. It's like firemen trying to douse a fire with gasoline and saying the problem is with the fire, not their tools.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well why in the **** are you gun nutters wanting to qualify the killing by gun.

You don't want any restriction on handguns. You don't want any restriction on rifles. But you do want to contend that ball bats kill more that rifles all the while ignoring the fact that guns in general kill many more than ball bats come close to.

What you all afraid of in admitting that guns (all types of guns) kill lots of people?

And besides I would like to see any of you gun nuts hit a fast ball for a home run with your AR15.

How come you didn't comment on the military being told they are attacking American terrorists and insurgents? You know, if you get that revolution going.

Because you control freaks are all about banning a particular kind of rifle for no other reason than it looks scary.

 

[WinterBorn]

Are all gun deaths at the hands of criminals? If they are, why would anyone oppose a back ground check in order to keep the criminal from owning a gun? When a kid picks up a gun and snuffs out his life because the gun cultured idiot parent of hers did not properly secure it, is it a problem of inadequate safes, or is it indeed a gun? Is there a connection between guns and gun violence?

Actually, many of the accidental deaths involving firearms can be laid at the feet of the anti-gun crowd. In times past, we as a culture did not fear or go nuts about guns like we do now. The fact that children have been suspended from school for drawing guns on paper, pointing their fingers, or (god forbid) eating a poptart in such a way as to leave a gun shaped pastry. Children were routinely taught gun safety.

The parents who leave loaded guns where children without safety training can get them are guilty of negligent homicide. But the gun itself is not to blame. And certainly the gun owner who stores his firearms properly should not be punished.

The gun culture is overwhelmingly safety oriented. Go to a gun range and violate a safety rule if you do not believe me. Leaving a loaded firearm out where a child is NOT part of any gun culture to which I belong or have been exposed to in my life.

Some of us have had nothing but rewarding experiences with guns. Others have had nothing but tragic experiences with guns.

Back in the 1970s, gun manufacturers introduced the Saturday Night Special, do you remember that? Cheap, easily concealable handguns with one idea in mind when designed: to kill human beings. Then the popular culture exploded with movies and television programs that glorified gun use. "Do ya feel lucky Punk?" The Rambo franchise. Die Hard and other action films made firing guns cool to the generation born after the advent of the Saturday Night Special.

Opie Taylor and his Pa used guns while hunting. No one had a problem. But when the A Team went hunting, they did not pack a shot gun.

I'm not big on blaming pop culture for gun violence. I do blame gun makers for evil inventions and modifications that made guns fashionable among a certain sub-set of Americans. I do blame gun deaths on the presence of guns, not gun shaped pastries. I do blame the gun culture for stating guns are not the problem. It's like firemen trying to douse a fire with gasoline and saying the problem is with the fire, not their tools.

But banning certain firearms based on cosmetic criteria does not solve the problem.

The firearm is a mechanical tool, nothing more. Self defense aside, most gun owners would never point a firearm at another person, let alone shoot them. Until we address the actual problem of the criminal, the violence will not stop.

 

[Nosmo King]

Actually, many of the accidental deaths involving firearms can be laid at the feet of the anti-gun crowd. In times past, we as a culture did not fear or go nuts about guns like we do now. The fact that children have been suspended from school for drawing guns on paper, pointing their fingers, or (god forbid) eating a poptart in such a way as to leave a gun shaped pastry. Children were routinely taught gun safety.

The parents who leave loaded guns where children without safety training can get them are guilty of negligent homicide. But the gun itself is not to blame. And certainly the gun owner who stores his firearms properly should not be punished.

The gun culture is overwhelmingly safety oriented. Go to a gun range and violate a safety rule if you do not believe me. Leaving a loaded firearm out where a child is NOT part of any gun culture to which I belong or have been exposed to in my life.

Some of us have had nothing but rewarding experiences with guns. Others have had nothing but tragic experiences with guns.

Back in the 1970s, gun manufacturers introduced the Saturday Night Special, do you remember that? Cheap, easily concealable handguns with one idea in mind when designed: to kill human beings. Then the popular culture exploded with movies and television programs that glorified gun use. "Do ya feel lucky Punk?" The Rambo franchise. Die Hard and other action films made firing guns cool to the generation born after the advent of the Saturday Night Special.

Opie Taylor and his Pa used guns while hunting. No one had a problem. But when the A Team went hunting, they did not pack a shot gun.

I'm not big on blaming pop culture for gun violence. I do blame gun makers for evil inventions and modifications that made guns fashionable among a certain sub-set of Americans. I do blame gun deaths on the presence of guns, not gun shaped pastries. I do blame the gun culture for stating guns are not the problem. It's like firemen trying to douse a fire with gasoline and saying the problem is with the fire, not their tools.

But banning certain firearms based on cosmetic criteria does not solve the problem.

The firearm is a mechanical tool, nothing more. Self defense aside, most gun owners would never point a firearm at another person, let alone shoot them. Until we address the actual problem of the criminal, the violence will not stop.

But cosmetics was the platform from which the NRA wanted to legislate back in 1994! Gun reformers wanted to go after the firing mechanism (which is crucial) but the NRA watered down the law using semantics and cosmetics. You got what you wanted.

 

[WinterBorn]

Some of us have had nothing but rewarding experiences with guns. Others have had nothing but tragic experiences with guns.

Back in the 1970s, gun manufacturers introduced the Saturday Night Special, do you remember that? Cheap, easily concealable handguns with one idea in mind when designed: to kill human beings. Then the popular culture exploded with movies and television programs that glorified gun use. "Do ya feel lucky Punk?" The Rambo franchise. Die Hard and other action films made firing guns cool to the generation born after the advent of the Saturday Night Special.

Opie Taylor and his Pa used guns while hunting. No one had a problem. But when the A Team went hunting, they did not pack a shot gun.

I'm not big on blaming pop culture for gun violence. I do blame gun makers for evil inventions and modifications that made guns fashionable among a certain sub-set of Americans. I do blame gun deaths on the presence of guns, not gun shaped pastries. I do blame the gun culture for stating guns are not the problem. It's like firemen trying to douse a fire with gasoline and saying the problem is with the fire, not their tools.

But banning certain firearms based on cosmetic criteria does not solve the problem.

The firearm is a mechanical tool, nothing more. Self defense aside, most gun owners would never point a firearm at another person, let alone shoot them. Until we address the actual problem of the criminal, the violence will not stop.

But cosmetics was the platform from which the NRA wanted to legislate back in 1994! Gun reformers wanted to go after the firing mechanism (which is crucial) but the NRA watered down the law using semantics and cosmetics. You got what you wanted.

And semi-automatic rifles were used in how many murders? The focus is on removing a type of firearm that committed, at most, 3% of the gun related murders. How is that a seriously productive push?

And, as I have shown, there are semi-automatic rifles that are designed as sporting forearms. The action may have come from a military project, but virtually every firearm has that in common. I cannot think of a single firearm that does not have a military ancestor.

And once the legislators caved on the firing mechanism, the politicians still crowed about the danger of the guns they were banning.

It is almost laughable, but when Bill Clinton signed that bill and the bill to ban "cop killer" bullets, he did so with a picture of a policeman who had died in the line of duty behind him. No one stopped to ask how the officer died.

 

[M14 Shooter]

See below:



Questions:
-Had the 1994 AWB not sunset, or had it been reinstated once The Obama took office, how would it have stopped the Newton/Sandyhook shooting?
-If it were in place now, how would it stop another?

Please try to answer in a manner that does not involve emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

When the 1994 bill was written, the NRA managed to get the process bogged down with cosmetic differences. They steered everyone clear of the real issue: firing mechanics.

This is a lie; the sponsors of the ban - the people that created and wrote the legislation - came up with the definition of 'assault weapon' themselves and chose to define them thru the cosmetic appendages -- you cannot show that the NRA 'bogged down' this process at all.

Now that you've been set straight, please feel free to address the questions.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It can't be about the 2nd Amendment, because the government already doesn't allow folks to own all kinds of weapons, like cruise missiles, nukes, cluster bombs, F16s..., the list is endless. It's about people who like to think that they're a ******* bigshot for standing up to the government (because nobody really needs these kinds of guns), when the government is actually laughing at them after having moved the goalposts so far without anyone even noticing.

So... did you have an answer for the questions asked in the OP?

 

[M14 Shooter]

To bad you all couldn't (or wouldn't) put up a couple photos of what you gun nuts consider "assault weapons".

Apparently, someone didn't read the OP.

Somone also doesn't understand the issue here is 'assault weapons', not assault rifles, and so any discussion of assault rifles is meaningless.

That same someone has yet to address the questions asked in the OP.

Someone (YOU) is goofy as shit. YOU put up two photos of assault rifles.......but you don't want to talk about them? WTF?

Incorrect. I posted pics of 'assault wepaons', not assault rifles.

Now then -- did you have an answer for the questions in the OP?

 

[M14 Shooter]

When the 1994 bill was written, the NRA managed to get the process bogged down with cosmetic differences. They steered everyone clear of the real issue: firing mechanics.

If the semi-automatic firing system had been banned, not just the size of the stock or a flash suppressor, or the details of the grip, we would be twenty years ahead in the process of ridding weapons designed for warfare, not sport, from our streets.

There are plenty of sporting firearms that are semi-automatics.

But more importantly, what percentage of the homicides in the US are committed with semi-automatic rifles??

And what is the most common type of firearm used to commit murders in the US?

So if you actually wanted to make the streets safer, why would you focus on banning these rifles instead of banning easily concealed handguns? Unless you have another agenda.

Long guns and pistols with semi-automatic firing systems are widely used in drive by shootings and are the weapon of choice in mass shootings.

Accordina to Jillian, in the 48 'mass shootings' over the last 15 years - since Comlumbine - 'assaut weapons' were used in 8.

Weapon of choice? Obviously not.

Now then -- do you have an aswer for the questions in the OP?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Nobody said an assault weapons ban would have prevented Newtown.

Try honesty.

try honesty yourself.., i recall it quite differently, that is the first cry from you anti-gun liberfools, ban those evil black guns and this country would become civilized once more..., haa,, you fools will never learn ?

why do you love black people.., yet HATE black guns ??

So does that mean my Flat Dark Earth guns are okay?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHWq3cihjvI

Any gun you can do that with? Should not be in the hands of a civilian.

Do you have any idea whats going on in that video?
I'm guessing no.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It can't be about the 2nd Amendment, because the government already doesn't allow folks to own all kinds of weapons, like cruise missiles, nukes, cluster bombs, F16s..., the list is endless. It's about people who like to think that they're a ******* bigshot for standing up to the government (because nobody really needs these kinds of guns), when the government is actually laughing at them after having moved the goalposts so far without anyone even noticing.

It is not about "need" and never has been. I also think you underestimate the effect of an armed population. We have had examples in the last century of nations avoiding invasion because of the fear of such a population.

Look at the resistance put up by local populations against the US.

Hey lets look at one of those examples of nations avoiding invasion because of fear of such a population. Which example are you gonna use?

Lets see, Iraqis had access to plenty of weapons and made use of them. We invaded them and they tried like hell to throw us out. How did that work out for the Iraqis? Did the Iraqis defeat the US military? **** no. But a lot of them died trying.

But somehow a bunch of Americans are gonna stand up and be killed by our own military.
When our own military sure as **** didn't "invade the USA".

But I digress. Go ahead, what countries with an armed population stopped an invasion.

Afghanistan.

 

[Nosmo King]

There are plenty of sporting firearms that are semi-automatics.

But more importantly, what percentage of the homicides in the US are committed with semi-automatic rifles??

And what is the most common type of firearm used to commit murders in the US?

So if you actually wanted to make the streets safer, why would you focus on banning these rifles instead of banning easily concealed handguns? Unless you have another agenda.

Long guns and pistols with semi-automatic firing systems are widely used in drive by shootings and are the weapon of choice in mass shootings.

Accordina to Jillian, in the 48 'mass shootings' over the last 15 years - since Cimlumbine - 'assaut weapons' were used in 8.

Weapon of choice? Obviously not.

Now then -- do you have an aswer for the questions in the OP?

Are you trying to tell us that drive by shootings are the result of bolt action weapons? Are gangs shooting each other with shotguns or Glocks?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Long guns and pistols with semi-automatic firing systems are widely used in drive by shootings and are the weapon of choice in mass shootings.

Accordina to Jillian, in the 48 'mass shootings' over the last 15 years - since Cimlumbine - 'assaut weapons' were used in 8.

Weapon of choice? Obviously not.

Now then -- do you have an aswer for the questions in the OP?

Are you trying to tell us that drive by shootings are the result of bolt action weapons? Are gangs shooting each other with shotguns or Glocks?

I'm telling you that your statement regarding the weapon of choice for mass shootings is wrong.

Now then -- do you have an aswer for the questions in the OP?

 

[Nosmo King]

Accordina to Jillian, in the 48 'mass shootings' over the last 15 years - since Cimlumbine - 'assaut weapons' were used in 8.

Weapon of choice? Obviously not.

Now then -- do you have an aswer for the questions in the OP?

Are you trying to tell us that drive by shootings are the result of bolt action weapons? Are gangs shooting each other with shotguns or Glocks?

I'm telling you that your statement regarding the weapon of choice for mass shootings is wrong.

Now then -- do you have an aswer for the questions in the OP?

The question is a crock as is the 1994 gun legislation. Once the NRA got involved, the whole debate was bogged down in the silly question of cosmetics. Had legislators had the room to move on the FIRING SYSTEMS in semi automatic weapons, we would have been 20 years ahead of the curve in ridding our streets of these dangerous and TOTALLY UNNECESSARY weapons designed for war and nothing else.

 

[Nosmo King]

Accordina to Jillian, in the 48 'mass shootings' over the last 15 years - since Cimlumbine - 'assaut weapons' were used in 8.

Weapon of choice? Obviously not.

Now then -- do you have an aswer for the questions in the OP?

Are you trying to tell us that drive by shootings are the result of bolt action weapons? Are gangs shooting each other with shotguns or Glocks?

I'm telling you that your statement regarding the weapon of choice for mass shootings is wrong.

Now then -- do you have an aswer for the questions in the OP?

So I ask again: are gangs shooting up each other and are innocent victims killed in the cross fire between bolt action rifles and shot guns? If the weapon of choice of the average gang banger was not a semi-automatic pistol, would there be innocents lost in gang gun fights?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Are you trying to tell us that drive by shootings are the result of bolt action weapons? Are gangs shooting each other with shotguns or Glocks?

I'm telling you that your statement regarding the weapon of choice for mass shootings is wrong.

Now then -- do you have an aswer for the questions in the OP?

The question is a crock as is the 1994 gun legislation.

Ah. So you do not support banning 'assault weapons'. Good for you.

Once the NRA got involved, the whole debate was bogged down...

You posted this lie before. It's still a lie.