QM and General Relativity may have finally been merged

Here's my take, based on Born and Heisenberg's matrix mechanics. Begin with the uncertainty. The matrix mechanics says dP×dX >= h (bar) / 2 where d is the uncertainty expressed as standard (d)eviation. Substitute h (bar) = E/f to arrive at a fundamental relation between energy and time. This is the SAME relation covered by Noether's theorem which states that conservation of energy depends on time translation symmetry. Work backwards through the matrix using the other part of Noether which states that conservation of momentum equates with positional symmetry. You now have a relation between two types of symmetry, instead of simple physical quantities. Now apply the commutator which serves as a constraint (Dirac's laws) and note that the speed of light appears NOWHERE in these equations, they're simply a topology with boundaries that depend on the defined uncertainties. Now you can substitute back in the wave equations if you wish, or Einstein's field equation if you're okay with G. This method should give you all the possible variations that depend only on the uncertainty of measurement (which is empirical, and doesn't change that we know of). This way you're only using h as a statement about the uncertainty, rather than as a defined constant. Otherwise, you have to make assertions about what's true. In this case we're making the least possible assertion, which is that the limitations of what we can measure are the limitations of what we can measure. I happen to believe G is not a constant at all, it's a complex multidimensional tensor. But this way I don't have to prove it. :p

I'm definitely not saying this adds anything new (nor am I saying it's a theory of everything ha ha), it's just a way of looking at things. All it does is change the see-saw between physical constants, into a see-saw between symmetries. Which to me seems somehow more tractable, mathematically - requiring fewer assumptions and making the constraints more visible and more accessible. The relationship between h and G requires an assumption about c, but the only thing we "really" know to be true is we can't see beyond h. So instead of taking the approach in the paper and trying to pin down the Planck length and Planck time, I'd go the other way and use the uncertainty as my fundamental assumption. Done this way, we can reframe spacetime as a "stochastic" manifold instead of a deterministic one. This way the metric tensor is treated as a stochastic variable (ie becomes "noisy"), which we can then relate to the empirical uncertainty.

This is not a new idea, others thought of it long before I did. There has been considerable work done on this already, especially supporting continuous and differentiable geometries. The math is not easy, however it's not impossible either. I learned about stochastic diff eq's from studying brains, and by working on Wall St. I'm still studying stochastic manifolds and their geometries, and what's interesting is the constraints you need to apply to get them to adhere to the deterministic versions of the equations. "Quantum gravity" somehow seems more intuitive this way, and it's why I've come to believe there's more to G than just a number. But I'm not a physicist, I'm a biologist. I'd love to conspire with a physicist on this though. :)
 
There's a Cracker Jack prize in that last link, all you have to do is open the box ...
 
The abstract does not have enough detail to do an analysis. Wuwei has the proper approach- you have to see if it breaks any fundamental constants. The authors will have companion papers that have the detail, and there will be a back-and-forth between the authors and critics, and maybe we will learn more.

The youtube lady attacked the abstract on form, not on substance. I get that- her livelihood is youtube clicks. I looked into her. She was educated in physics, but unable to find a permanent position in basic research. That's typical- those are incredibly hard positions to land. Experiments like CERN and Fermilab and SLAC are very expensive to build, so there are not very many of them. The people lucky enough to land permanent positions basically hold them for life.

So she did what most people in her position do, they go into academia. She couldn't get tenure in academia, so now she does her youtube channel.

That's all fine, but youtube videos cannot answer the questions that I'm interested in getting the answers to.

I do not care if the authors do not use proper english syntax. The only syntax that matters is the equations. I do not care if the Epsilon symbol is used in different equations as long as the subscripts are consistent and defined in advance, which they are in this case. It may be confusing, but it does not break any math rules.

The use of planck units is not uncommon, be it the various string theories or SUSY or quantum mechanics. Planck length, mass, and time- practically by definition- will be incorporated into any quantum theory of gravity. They are the quantum units that will be used in the new definition of spacetime.

In Big Bang cosmology, the "planck epoch" is the first planck unit of time, where physics breaks down. That label is not a coincidence...
Youtube Lady? You mean Sabine Hossenfelder? Theoretical physicist Sabine Hossenfelder? Dr. Hossenfelder has published more than 80 research papers in the foundations of physics, from cosmology to quantum foundations and particle physics. Keep pushing a losing hand. Your claim to fame is not knowing the difference between special relativity and general relativity and thinking radiation decoupling from matter is what produced the radiation.
 
Ding, I can't hear a word you're saying, you're on my ignore list for the time being. Until you grow out of your incessant trolling.

For the physicists, here's the deal:

It seems self-evident that any kind of big bang had to be a "non" equilibrium event.

Thus, looking at the first Planck step requires us to consider "non" equilibrium quantum mechanics.

Which kind of puts us in a different universe, if you'll pardon the pun.

It turns out, that certain aspects of this become a lot easier when you consider stochastic systems. FOR EXAMPLE - entanglement comes for free.

What is entanglement? Well, one way of looking at it is, it's memory. Entangled pairs can be said to have a "memory" of their creation, and the memory is infinitely long (in time) until something destroys it.

"Non" equilibrium quantum mechanics on a stochastic manifold gives us persistent correlations that behave exactly this way. They can even generate local equilibria that would look to us exactly like the laws of physics, that is to say, "locally equilibrated" QM, where local is defined by something other than simple position.

In biology there are plenty of examples of this kind of development, generally falling under the umbrella of "morphogenesis". Many of these have fractal signatures (like, the shapes of ferns and trees etc), but some don't, some result in smooth and regular geometries. (With local equilibria of their own).

In biology, it turns out to be fairly easy in many cases, to relate the Copenhagen view with the deBroglie-Bohm view, which both end up predicting the same behavior. In biology, the "pilot wave" is more or less equivalent to a guiding gradient upon which the local development occurs. Such a gradient confers a "non" equilibrium character to the subsequent development, it "breaks symmetry" as it were. Which is exactly what is posited to have happened in the development of fields in the early universe (like, electrostrong breaking down into strong and electroweak).

Well, it turns out that if you have a stochastic manifold to begin with, you don't even need the gradient. (And there are plenty of examples of that too, in biology). You get "non local correlation" for free, it's one of the ways our brains work. In chemistry there are many analogues, for example the spatial patterns in the Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction (which fall into the general category of "non equilibrium thermodynamics" for which Prigogine got the Nobel prize).

In the chemical case the long distance effects are modeled with "coupling constants" which are analogous to forces, which in turn are analogous to stochastic behaviors on fields. So for example, you get a "mass" someplace, which results from a curvature of something embedded in a field. In a chemical soup the curvature is very local and constantly changes, so this would be analogous to particles popping into and out of existence in the vacuum.

Okay? You get what I'm saying. On a stochastic manifold you get all this for free, if you're looking at it deterministically you have to jump through hoops with mysterious "coupling constants" and the like.

It seems to me that a noisy metric goes a long way towards explaining "non" equilibrium conditions which then relax into a more regular structure. It works in chemistry, it works in biology, I see no reason why it can't work in physics too. The math says you can get all the same symmetries this way, with the added benefit that entanglement comes with the territory and you don't even have to be non-Markovian to get it.
 
Ding, I can't hear a word you're saying, you're on my ignore list for the time being. Until you grow out of your incessant trolling.

That sure is cowardly ... if you want to ignore him, then ignore him ... don't put him on ignore then bait him ...

It's the troll who accuses others of being trolls ... except this is pure cowardice ... put me on ignore, I dare you sucker ...
 
Ding, I can't hear a word you're saying, you're on my ignore list for the time being. Until you grow out of your incessant trolling.

For the physicists, here's the deal:

It seems self-evident that any kind of big bang had to be a "non" equilibrium event.

Thus, looking at the first Planck step requires us to consider "non" equilibrium quantum mechanics.

Which kind of puts us in a different universe, if you'll pardon the pun.

It turns out, that certain aspects of this become a lot easier when you consider stochastic systems. FOR EXAMPLE - entanglement comes for free.

What is entanglement? Well, one way of looking at it is, it's memory. Entangled pairs can be said to have a "memory" of their creation, and the memory is infinitely long (in time) until something destroys it.

"Non" equilibrium quantum mechanics on a stochastic manifold gives us persistent correlations that behave exactly this way. They can even generate local equilibria that would look to us exactly like the laws of physics, that is to say, "locally equilibrated" QM, where local is defined by something other than simple position.

In biology there are plenty of examples of this kind of development, generally falling under the umbrella of "morphogenesis". Many of these have fractal signatures (like, the shapes of ferns and trees etc), but some don't, some result in smooth and regular geometries. (With local equilibria of their own).

In biology, it turns out to be fairly easy in many cases, to relate the Copenhagen view with the deBroglie-Bohm view, which both end up predicting the same behavior. In biology, the "pilot wave" is more or less equivalent to a guiding gradient upon which the local development occurs. Such a gradient confers a "non" equilibrium character to the subsequent development, it "breaks symmetry" as it were. Which is exactly what is posited to have happened in the development of fields in the early universe (like, electrostrong breaking down into strong and electroweak).

Well, it turns out that if you have a stochastic manifold to begin with, you don't even need the gradient. (And there are plenty of examples of that too, in biology). You get "non local correlation" for free, it's one of the ways our brains work. In chemistry there are many analogues, for example the spatial patterns in the Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction (which fall into the general category of "non equilibrium thermodynamics" for which Prigogine got the Nobel prize).

In the chemical case the long distance effects are modeled with "coupling constants" which are analogous to forces, which in turn are analogous to stochastic behaviors on fields. So for example, you get a "mass" someplace, which results from a curvature of something embedded in a field. In a chemical soup the curvature is very local and constantly changes, so this would be analogous to particles popping into and out of existence in the vacuum.

Okay? You get what I'm saying. On a stochastic manifold you get all this for free, if you're looking at it deterministically you have to jump through hoops with mysterious "coupling constants" and the like.

It seems to me that a noisy metric goes a long way towards explaining "non" equilibrium conditions which then relax into a more regular structure. It works in chemistry, it works in biology, I see no reason why it can't work in physics too. The math says you can get all the same symmetries this way, with the added benefit that entanglement comes with the territory and you don't even have to be non-Markovian to get it.
Educate yourself.
 
Educate yourself.

Have you posted this 10 times yet today you OCD Religious Nut?



1726072489539.png


`
 
The youtube lady attacked the abstract on form, not on substance.
I agree. This is my review of the reviewer reviewing the paper in the OP.
Bold faced text is Sabine Hossenfelder's opinions, the rest is mine.

Never heard of authors. Broken english.
Maybe they will explain why woman pluck out eyebrows

These non sequiturs and unprofessional sarcasm for her audience set a biased tone .

The premise makes no sense.
Jumping to conclusions... Many science breakthroughs outside the box make no sense at first. The authors didn't pull it from the air. They posited a reciprocity on GR in the universe.

Typos and misspellings. Sloppy copyediting.
It happens all the time. Neither journal editors nor reviewers are copy editors. Perhaps the authors had someone else format the equations from handwriting. But yes it was sloppy. Most conference proceedings are even worse.

Criticizes duplicity in notation.
Yes it was confusing and sometimes non-standard

"Energy is not a scalar"
Energy is, by definition, a scalar! Look it up. I have no idea why she said that.

Complains that the differential operator was not acting on anything.
Definitions of diff operators are not supposed to act on anything specific because they can act on different variables. If you want to use them, then let them operate on something specific. The authors do exactly that later in the paper.

[Du, Dv] is a commutator
D was completely defined by the author. The authors text says so, and they had the right syntax for the commutator in common usage. She belabored and wrote it out. Why? There was no controversy there. She is making it seem controversial. However it was an antisymetic form.

This article shows the exact same thing with the operator operating on a variable. That is also an antisymmetric form. She pans this although it's in the literature.

ricicomutator.webp


This article shows the reduced form of R, which she pans.


She notes "now they've proved that the Ricci tensor is actually a scalar," and ends it there. They didn't prove that. They used a common reduced form of it by summing over indices. So she pans this form which is also in the literature.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0927650524001130#bib0018
ricciscalar.webp


Many sites say the Ricci tensor is symmetric. It sounds like a contradiction to say they are not. I have no idea of why, and neither does Sabine

She summarizes it, "there might be real wisdom. And we'd never know." That's true, but we will eventually know when the paper is reviewed by experts who will give it more than a cursory glance.

The paper could still be trash. It was too terse on many important potential ramifications that the authors could have easily checked out. She didn't know about common forms of the Ricci tensor. What I'm saying here is that if it is trash, Sabine does not prove it.
 
I agree. This is my review of the reviewer reviewing the paper in the OP.
Bold faced text is Sabine Hossenfelder's opinions, the rest is mine.

Never heard of authors. Broken english.
Maybe they will explain why woman pluck out eyebrows

These non sequiturs and unprofessional sarcasm for her audience set a biased tone .

The premise makes no sense.
Jumping to conclusions... Many science breakthroughs outside the box make no sense at first. The authors didn't pull it from the air. They posited a reciprocity on GR in the universe.

Typos and misspellings. Sloppy copyediting.
It happens all the time. Neither journal editors nor reviewers are copy editors. Perhaps the authors had someone else format the equations from handwriting. But yes it was sloppy. Most conference proceedings are even worse.

Criticizes duplicity in notation.
Yes it was confusing and sometimes non-standard

"Energy is not a scalar"
Energy is, by definition, a scalar! Look it up. I have no idea why she said that.

Complains that the differential operator was not acting on anything.
Definitions of diff operators are not supposed to act on anything specific because they can act on different variables. If you want to use them, then let them operate on something specific. The authors do exactly that later in the paper.

[Du, Dv] is a commutator
D was completely defined by the author. The authors text says so, and they had the right syntax for the commutator in common usage. She belabored and wrote it out. Why? There was no controversy there. She is making it seem controversial. However it was an antisymetic form.

This article shows the exact same thing with the operator operating on a variable. That is also an antisymmetric form. She pans this although it's in the literature.

View attachment 1010058

This article shows the reduced form of R, which she pans.


She notes "now they've proved that the Ricci tensor is actually a scalar," and ends it there. They didn't prove that. They used a common reduced form of it by summing over indices. So she pans this form which is also in the literature.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0927650524001130#bib0018
View attachment 1010061

Many sites say the Ricci tensor is symmetric. It sounds like a contradiction to say they are not. I have no idea of why, and neither does Sabine

She summarizes it, "there might be real wisdom. And we'd never know." That's true, but we will eventually know when the paper is reviewed by experts who will give it more than a cursory glance.

The paper could still be trash. It was too terse on many important potential ramifications that the authors could have easily checked out. She didn't know about common forms of the Ricci tensor. What I'm saying here is that if it is trash, Sabine does not prove it.
This is why she couldn't get a position in academia. Because she doesn't know her stuff.
 
That sure is cowardly ... if you want to ignore him, then ignore him ... don't put him on ignore then bait him ...

He keeps trolling my posts. I want him to know why I'm not responding.

It's the troll who accuses others of being trolls ... except this is pure cowardice ... put me on ignore, I dare you sucker ...
So now you're a troll too?

Do you have anything of substance to add to the thread or are you just going to make it about me?

Doofus, i'm not important. It's the science that's important. How about we all get up to speed on the science? What do you say?
 
Physics still has a fundamental problem with scale.

A "theory of everything" has to cover all scales from the Planck scale to the universe itself. That's 70+ orders of magnitude, making such a search, in a way, wrongheaded.

We currently understand that there's no such thing as a closed system. Which means Planck scale events are being influenced by other Planck scale events galaxies away. We also understand there are 20 orders of magnitude between the Planck scale and what we can actually see. So far the fastest time we can see is a zeptosecond. That leaves 20 orders of magnitude we can't see or measure.

I'll submit for your consideration, that we have no idea what happens at the Planck scale, and therefore any attempt to define it is just a SWAG. Instead, we should do what the chemists have done, to relate SCALES of influence. Onsager got the Nobel in 1968 for his reciprocal relations. Prigogine got the Nobel in 1977 for his work on non equilibrium systems.

We should KNOW by now, that our universe is not (and never was) at equilibrium. What we call "the constants" are all based on theoretical systems at equilibrium. This works in (and "only" in) a middle range of scale. The proof is the continued inability to relate quantum mechanics and relativity. The math says there's a gazillion ways to violate both. Some of those ways are experimentally demonstrable.

Take a close look at nonequilibrium thermodynamics. Here:


And here:


Pay attention to what they're saying about entropy, which as we know, is information.

Then take a look at this, which is the way we measure entanglement - meaning stable non local configurations of information:


I'm trying to emphasize the importance of neutrinos in this discussion. Someone in this thread said "we don't know", which is not entirely accurate. We now have a working neutrino detector. Here's a picture of a neutrino:

1726129681877.webp



"Neutrinos have non-zero mass outside the Einstein-Cartan torsion, which requires a modification to the Standard Model of particle physics".

In other words, we already KNOW it doesn't work, so why are we placing faith in "universal constants"?

This is the current thinking around neutrino oscillations:

"Neutrino oscillation arises from mixing between the flavor and mass eigenstates of neutrinos. That is, the three neutrino states that interact with the charged leptons in weak interactions are each a different superposition of the three (propagating) neutrino states of definite mass. Neutrinos are emitted and absorbed in weak processes in flavor eigenstates but travel as mass eigenstates."


Hello? Nuh uh. This would require a violation of the basic laws of physics. Which is why we know the model doesn't work. We're looking at neutrinos that started flying around early in the history of the universe. If you continue reading the article they make it clear that the theory depends on the maintenance of coherence in the wave functions, which HELLO, is the exact same thing as entanglement. This should be a big-ass clue. On the one hand, we have a stable information state, and on the other, we have one that oscillates. Neither is describable by the Standard Model.

But BOTH can be described on a stochastic manifold. The math says we get stable manifolds under certain conditions. I can't possibly post all the links about this, but here's a few to get started, and you can Google on "stable information states on stochastic manifolds" to get more.





The last paper is important because it talks about how to relate different scales. You can compare this to the work on nonequilibrium thermodynamics. In all these cases, there are coupled nonlinear stochastic oscillators, which only requires a "small" tweak to the standard quantum model, but results in a big and important set of observable behaviors. Like pairwise entanglement and neutrino oscillations. And I'll betcha ten bucks it can relate gravity to quantum mechanics too.
 
I want him to know why I'm not responding.
You aren't responding because I painted you into a corner. The logical conclusion of your belief that everything is alive and conscious is that the thing that created the universe must have been living and conscious.

You didn't see that coming, you have no good answer for it and you don't like it. So rather than admitting it, you choose to run away from it.
 
He keeps trolling my posts. I want him to know why I'm not responding.


So now you're a troll too?

Do you have anything of substance to add to the thread or are you just going to make it about me?

Doofus, i'm not important. It's the science that's important. How about we all get up to speed on the science? What do you say?

Then why are you responding to him? ... that's not science, that's being a petty little bitch ... "nah nah nah I can't hear you" ... only yellow bellied cowards put someone on ignore and then conduct ad hominim attacks ... God knows that's low ... this thread is about a joke ... the paper itself is being retracted if the requested corrections aren't made ... see the publication date? ...

From the publishing house: "This is a note of a temporary expression of concern related to potential errors in the formulas of this paper. The concern and this note will remain appended to the above-mentioned article until the investigation is closed and a decision is made regarding the article retraction or correction."

My question starts with why the old formulazation of the Riemannian Geometry is wrong, and how are we demonstrating the need for this reformulazation ... i.e. is this a change in physics or a change in the math ... since you read the paper with comprehension, maybe you can explain what we should look for ... what are we seeing that needs this new rework ...

Is the universe quantized or is it just the way we're looking at it? ...
 
That sure is cowardly ... if you want to ignore him, then ignore him ... don't put him on ignore then bait him ...

It's the troll who accuses others of being trolls ... except this is pure cowardice ... put me on ignore, I dare you sucker ...
There is a big difference. Dings trolling is incessant and particularly snotty and juvenile.
 
Physics still has a fundamental problem with scale.

A "theory of everything" has to cover all scales from the Planck scale to the universe itself. That's 70+ orders of magnitude, making such a search, in a way, wrongheaded.

We currently understand that there's no such thing as a closed system. Which means Planck scale events are being influenced by other Planck scale events galaxies away. We also understand there are 20 orders of magnitude between the Planck scale and what we can actually see. So far the fastest time we can see is a zeptosecond. That leaves 20 orders of magnitude we can't see or measure.

I'll submit for your consideration, that we have no idea what happens at the Planck scale, and therefore any attempt to define it is just a SWAG. Instead, we should do what the chemists have done, to relate SCALES of influence. Onsager got the Nobel in 1968 for his reciprocal relations. Prigogine got the Nobel in 1977 for his work on non equilibrium systems.

We should KNOW by now, that our universe is not (and never was) at equilibrium. What we call "the constants" are all based on theoretical systems at equilibrium. This works in (and "only" in) a middle range of scale. The proof is the continued inability to relate quantum mechanics and relativity. The math says there's a gazillion ways to violate both. Some of those ways are experimentally demonstrable.

Take a close look at nonequilibrium thermodynamics. Here:


And here:


Pay attention to what they're saying about entropy, which as we know, is information.

Then take a look at this, which is the way we measure entanglement - meaning stable non local configurations of information:


I'm trying to emphasize the importance of neutrinos in this discussion. Someone in this thread said "we don't know", which is not entirely accurate. We now have a working neutrino detector. Here's a picture of a neutrino:

View attachment 1010266


"Neutrinos have non-zero mass outside the Einstein-Cartan torsion, which requires a modification to the Standard Model of particle physics".

In other words, we already KNOW it doesn't work, so why are we placing faith in "universal constants"?

This is the current thinking around neutrino oscillations:

"Neutrino oscillation arises from mixing between the flavor and mass eigenstates of neutrinos. That is, the three neutrino states that interact with the charged leptons in weak interactions are each a different superposition of the three (propagating) neutrino states of definite mass. Neutrinos are emitted and absorbed in weak processes in flavor eigenstates but travel as mass eigenstates."


Hello? Nuh uh. This would require a violation of the basic laws of physics. Which is why we know the model doesn't work. We're looking at neutrinos that started flying around early in the history of the universe. If you continue reading the article they make it clear that the theory depends on the maintenance of coherence in the wave functions, which HELLO, is the exact same thing as entanglement. This should be a big-ass clue. On the one hand, we have a stable information state, and on the other, we have one that oscillates. Neither is describable by the Standard Model.

But BOTH can be described on a stochastic manifold. The math says we get stable manifolds under certain conditions. I can't possibly post all the links about this, but here's a few to get started, and you can Google on "stable information states on stochastic manifolds" to get more.





The last paper is important because it talks about how to relate different scales. You can compare this to the work on nonequilibrium thermodynamics. In all these cases, there are coupled nonlinear stochastic oscillators, which only requires a "small" tweak to the standard quantum model, but results in a big and important set of observable behaviors. Like pairwise entanglement and neutrino oscillations. And I'll betcha ten bucks it can relate gravity to quantum mechanics too.
Neutrinos seem to be the only particle that shows all flavors together. I have wondered if there is a fourth flavor in the standard model with high energies that are beyond detection so far, but if that were the case the neutrino would show four flavors in the oscillations. So it seems that the standard model is complete, at least with the flavors.
 
I'll submit for your consideration, that we have no idea what happens at the Planck scale, and therefore any attempt to define it is just a SWAG. Instead, we should do what the chemists have done, to relate SCALES of influence. Onsager got the Nobel in 1968 for his reciprocal relations. Prigogine got the Nobel in 1977 for his work on non equilibrium systems.
As far as QM covering scales, the vacuum energy is one phenomenon which relates to all scales. It is in a dynamic equilibrium, but is also a stochastic process.
 
There is a big difference. Dings trolling is incessant and particularly snotty and juvenile.

Ding's on your ignore list ... how is that trolling? ... how do you even know he's posting? ...

I've said the exact same things at Ding, and then did the adult thing and let him respond ... none of this childish runaway and hide nonsense ... the both of them are frauds if they're posting their opinions here ... whereas you can only think I'm stupid at this stuff, you have no evidence I am ...

The universe might be quantized, but the human condition remains smooth ... and baiting trolls to cover ignorance is always wrong ...

Question for you too:

"My question starts with why the old formulazation of the Riemannian Geometry is wrong, and how are we demonstrating the need for this reformulazation ... i.e. is this a change in physics or a change in the math ... since you read the paper with comprehension, maybe you can explain what we should look for ... what are we seeing that needs this new rework ..."
 
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