QM and General Relativity may have finally been merged

I think you are hung up on a label, you have beat this poor horse to death.

Just because a system is deterministic does not mean it's predictable. Chaotic systems are only predictable within boundary conditions. They don't "get into that state" They are in that state by definition.

A hurricane is a chaotic system. Hurricanes cause a lot of damage, and we spend a lot of money trying to predict them. We monitor them with satellites and aircraft and balloons, etc. We gather huge amounts of data and use supercomputers to model their paths.

When you look at the predictions, they are pretty good in the immediate future, but the predicted path is a fan shape, the uncertainty grows rapidly with time. That is the nature of chaotic systems (which is pretty much everything in nature).

Hurricanes are "deterministic", sure. Air obeys rules. Hot air always rises, air always flows from high pressure to low pressure, etc. But that does not mean hurricanes are predictable- we can never gather enough data or model it precisely enough to make anything other than a short-term prediction (that rapidly degrades).
Yes I totally agree 100%; the weather is not random, it is deterministic but chaotic. I do not for a moment dispute that some deterministic systems are chaotic, but they are not random, if they were we'd have no need for the concept of "chaos" we'd just use "random".
 
Yes I totally agree 100%; the weather is not random, it is deterministic but chaotic. I do not for a moment dispute that some deterministic systems are chaotic, but they are not random, if they were we'd have no need for the concept of "chaos" we'd just use "random".
You are hung up on semantics. A lottery machine is a deterministic system- you fill a barrel with numbered ping pong balls and blow air into it. The balls fly around in a chaotic manner, and are drawn into a tube one at a time.

The machine is deterministic, but it's only function is to perform a random drawing...
 
You are hung up on semantics. A lottery machine is a deterministic system- you fill a barrel with numbered ping pong balls and blow air into it. The balls fly around in a chaotic manner, and are drawn into a tube one at a time.

The machine is deterministic, but it's only function is to perform a random drawing...
Not at all, it was inexcusable for a purported mathematician to state that the weather is not deterministic. It's not being "hung op on semantics" to speak honestly and use appropriate terms.

Deterministic and chaos and random all have distinct meanings, one shouldn't confuse them.
 
"Qigong" - this was taught by my former Wing Chun teacher when I lived in London:
Did you do the general exercise forms, or specific forms, like The 18 Palms of Buddha, Shamanic Tiger, San Po, etc.

The video looks like Kung Fu.
 
Did you do the general exercise forms, or specific forms, like The 18 Palms of Buddha, Shamanic Tiger, San Po, etc.

The video looks like Kung Fu.
No Sir, I trained in Wing Chun under his tutelage. He also held qigong classes but I never had the free time to devote to that, the Wing Chun was exhausting enough.

He wrote a book, I bough it many years ago when I was training, quite an informative book:

1726260712911.webp


He was a serious guy, always respected, nobody messed around. I learned a lot, like when you punch you punch like you mean it, punch to destroy the opponents throat of face or ribs, very fast, huge focus. That kind of thing takes time but is what differentiae's a trained fighter from a thug.

Lau trained under Yip Man in Hong Kong and even used to see Bruce Lee in Yip Man's class in the early 1950s, Lee was older than him.

Wing Chun was Lee's first style, he trained in that in Hong Kong and resumed it in Los Angeles later.
 
No Sir, I trained in Wing Chun under his tutelage. He also held qigong classes but I never had the free time to devote to that, the Wing Chun was exhausting enough.

He wrote a book, I bough it many years ago when I was training, quite an informative book:

View attachment 1011281

He was a serious guy, always respected, nobody messed around. I learned a lot, like when you punch you punch like you mean it, punch to destroy the opponents throat of face or ribs, very fast, huge focus. That kind of thing takes time but is what differentiae's a trained fighter from a thug.

Lau trained under Yip Man in Hong Kong and even used to see Bruce Lee in Yip Man's class in the early 1950s, Lee was older than him.

Wing Chun was Lee's first style, he trained in that in Hong Kong and resumed it in Los Angeles later.
I spent 4 years in Qigong, and about 22 years of Tai Chi, including the Yang 108 long form; William C C Chen 60 movement form; Sun 73 movement style; San Shou; a sword form; and a staff form. These are all slow forms, and precursors to martial arts; not exhausting but very exacting.
 
scruffy, your post are too prolific for me to look into.
Still on topic. Getting "regular" macroscopic topology from an "irregular" underlying system, "irregular" in this case being a matter of scale.

We agree that there is a disconnect between the quantum theory at small scale and relativistic cosmology. Current research is focused on "quantum gravity", and all current versions of that are very complicated (strings, loops, etc).

I'm suggesting a much easier and simpler way to get it. Which is apparently what the authors in the OP paper were after too.

They base theirs on "universal constants". Mine is based on "primitives". Like 0 and 1, and a few basic operators (+, union and intersection, like that). Not being a physicist, I think like a biologist - brains get complicated behavior from primitives.
 
Still on topic. Getting "regular" macroscopic topology from an "irregular" underlying system, "irregular" in this case being a matter of scale.

We agree that there is a disconnect between the quantum theory at small scale and relativistic cosmology. Current research is focused on "quantum gravity", and all current versions of that are very complicated (strings, loops, etc).

I'm suggesting a much easier and simpler way to get it. Which is apparently what the authors in the OP paper were after too.

They base theirs on "universal constants". Mine is based on "primitives". Like 0 and 1, and a few basic operators (+, union and intersection, like that). Not being a physicist, I think like a biologist - brains get complicated behavior from primitives.

Primitives - the physicist John Hopfield (who was a student of John Wheeler) showed us how to do it, easily, with an annealing model.

His thing is exactly like Ising, except easier. You have two states: 0 and 1. You have a formula (Hamiltonian) for regional energy. Each element (could be a neuron, or it could be a photon) knows only 0 and 1, and a transition operator. It either flips or it doesn't. That's it, that's all.

From this minimal system, all of AI is built. All of ChatGPT-4 and all that cool stuff, is just complexity around this simple process: flip states, or don't. 0, 1, and an operator.

I'm thinking physics is like this too. The "universal constants" are complicated, plus you have to assert their truth, like in the OP paper. The units of Planck's constant are joule-seconds, that's complicated stuff. The simpler view is the photon either gives up a packet of energy or it doesn't. 1 packet = 1 frequency.

I'm pretty sure when we take things down to the Planck scale we'll find very simple behavior. Of course the probabilities are what matter. Think about a superposition, or the concept of "all possible paths". You could have a quantum jumping around so fast we can't measure it, and that would "look" to us like the energy is in all possible paths at once. And the fact that it resolves to one and only one outcome on measurement, would support this view (like, once it interacts it stops jumping around). A "very fast" stochastic process would support such behavior.
 
So here's my question, after considering the OP paper in detail.

HOW CAN YOU TELL, if an electron cloud is really "diffuse", or if it's just a very fast stochastic process?

Challenge to physicists and mathematicians: "design an experiment" to prove one way or the other.
 
I spent 4 years in Qigong, and about 22 years of Tai Chi, including the Yang 108 long form; William C C Chen 60 movement form; Sun 73 movement style; San Shou; a sword form; and a staff form. These are all slow forms, and precursors to martial arts; not exhausting but very exacting.
That's interesting, there's a lot of stuff going on in these that the average onlooker never notices. I recall that one of the origins for Tai Chi was to practice actual fighting exercises but very slowly so as to not give people any idea that these were in fact fighters.
Lee was truly astonishing, still not appreciated by many people. He was an innovator and although the movie fights are of course choreographed they are still the best fight scenes ever recorded.

Lee's fights do not rely on close up shots very much, one can see his agility from a distance and appreciate the speed and power of his kicks. In a modern MA film the kicks are often done close up, you'll see the two fighters then once launces a kick but the camera then switches to get up close, this suggest that the actual movements were decoupled to ease filming, Lee had no need for that.
This brief clip - choreographed of course - is a good example, you just do not see scenes like this much today, the camera loved Lee.

This clip is with the Karate master Bob Wall (Lee only ever used competent fighters, people who could handle the demands) the snap kicks at the start of this, are what I'm describing:



Wing Chun is (apparently) unique in its emphasis on Chi Sau (sticking hands) excercises where two partners train together, the excercises are superb, each person's hands remain in contact with the others and the vie for control. As one tries to push one way the other might push back, or might seem to yield but its a trick.

The speeds that this develops for close range fisticuffs is incredible and Lee was a master at Chi Sau.
 
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Primitives - the physicist John Hopfield (who was a student of John Wheeler) showed us how to do it, easily, with an annealing model.

His thing is exactly like Ising, except easier. You have two states: 0 and 1. You have a formula (Hamiltonian) for regional energy. Each element (could be a neuron, or it could be a photon) knows only 0 and 1, and a transition operator. It either flips or it doesn't. That's it, that's all.
I'm familiar with the Ising model. I used simulated annealing to search for minimum error in complex irregular pattern matching.

Stephen Wolfram in his book, A New Kind of Science, strongly promoted binary Cellular Automata as a path for all physics. His chapter on physics was replete with the words, maybe, perhaps, etc. I bought the book, read the final chapters, returned it, and trashed it in an Amazon review. Less knowledgeable reviewers were in awe, but the more knowledgeable were not.
I'm pretty sure when we take things down to the Planck scale we'll find very simple behavior. Of course the probabilities are what matter. Think about a superposition, or the concept of "all possible paths". You could have a quantum jumping around so fast we can't measure it, and that would "look" to us like the energy is in all possible paths at once. And the fact that it resolves to one and only one outcome on measurement, would support this view (like, once it interacts it stops jumping around). A "very fast" stochastic process would support such behavior.
HOW CAN YOU TELL, if an electron cloud is really "diffuse", or if it's just a very fast stochastic process?
Interesting idea. Jumping also sounds like hidden variables that are too fast to be useful in any prediction except as a probability distribution.
Challenge to physicists and mathematicians: "design an experiment" to prove one way or the other.
If it is really at the plank level, experiments would be more than difficult.

I think that it may also be an idea for resolving entanglement. Alice's particle is still in the same jumping phase as Bobs. Since photons have a zero space and time existence, they will be in the stochastic synchrony in the time frame of a photon's (zero) existence wherein the photon will be captured the instant it is created.

I once read that the wave function for an electron also traveled at the speed of light, while the phase velocity plods along. I tried looking it up to verify it but had no luck. But that would also explain entanglement for heavier particles.
 
I'm familiar with the Ising model. I used simulated annealing to search for minimum error in complex irregular pattern matching.

Stephen Wolfram in his book, A New Kind of Science, strongly promoted binary Cellular Automata as a path for all physics. His chapter on physics was replete with the words, maybe, perhaps, etc. I bought the book, read the final chapters, returned it, and trashed it in an Amazon review. Less knowledgeable reviewers were in awe, but the more knowledgeable were not.
It was a crap book indeed.
 
That's interesting, there's a lot of stuff going on in these that the average onlooker never notices. I recall that one of the origins for Tai Chi was to practice actual fighting exercises but very slowly so as to not give people any idea that these were in fact fighters.
Lee was truly astonishing, still not appreciated by many people. He was an innovator and although the movie fights are of course choreographed they are still the best fight scenes ever recorded.
I heard the same thing about hiding the MA from competitors. My latest Tai Chi teacher continually demonstrated how all the subtleties of the slow movements had application in the martial arts. He would correct students slow movements on the basis of that. He also said that even without MA considerations it would have a unique calm feeling of flow in itself. At the beginning I thought he was being a nitpicker. It took me four years to be able to judge my form and someone other student's form.

Lee was unique. I also like to watch top notch competitions. I use YouTubes comma and period keys to go forward frame by frame.
 
I heard the same thing about hiding the MA from competitors. My latest Tai Chi teacher continually demonstrated how all the subtleties of the slow movements had application in the martial arts. He would correct students slow movements on the basis of that. He also said that even without MA considerations it would have a unique calm feeling of flow in itself. At the beginning I thought he was being a nitpicker. It took me four years to be able to judge my form and someone other student's form.
The Chinese have a lot of unique insights, a fascinating culture.
Lee was unique. I also like to watch top notch competitions. I use YouTubes comma and period keys to go forward frame by frame.

Simon Lau once told us in a class, that he used to enter his top students into organized competitive refereed fights with other schools, in a ring and so on. But he later stopped. He said it was destructive and not beneficial. He saw one of his students strike his opponent in a competition, with a "back fist" (a very very fast snap punch using mostly the lower arm).

The fist hit the opponent's face and destroyed it and the guy's lower arm itself snapped in the middle, both fighters were done for.

Here's a good explanation of Chi Sau (there are several variant exercises, this is just one) the guy is good at explaining but doesn't get into full speed sparring.



Training Chi Sai with a blind fold is superb, each party relies wholly on touch, pressure and so on.

The exercises are exercises not fighting, but in a real fight anyone trying to enter your personal space, say to grab you, poke you, they will be in serious trouble. With decent practice your private space around your body becomes almost impenetrable.

Wing Chun was once described as the best fighting style if you have to fight inside a telephone booth. Most people, bullies, thugs don't want to get too close to you, they want to strike but maintain some kind of safe distance. In Wing Chun you get close, force them to deal with at very close range and unless they've trained for that - they're f****d.



It's often not obvious to the unschooled onlooker, what is going in with Chi Sau. But you are reacting to your opponent as much as he is reacting to you, it's a tight feedback loop. The two people can get into a cyclic back and forth and then - unannounced - either one, can strike or trap or trick the other into some reaction that enable him to be struck.
 
The exercises are exercises not fighting, but in a real fight anyone trying to enter your personal space, say to grab you, poke you, they will be in serious trouble. With decent practice your private space around your body becomes almost impenetrable.
We were taught to keep your center invisible. If your opponent's attack misses your center, he is in trouble.

The first half of this video is an 80 movement San Shou form we were taught. Some movements in the video are a bit contrived. Many kicks are "blocked" a bit too late. It's very difficult for partners to get in synch with a complex everchanging form.
 
I'm familiar with the Ising model. I used simulated annealing to search for minimum error in complex irregular pattern matching.

Stephen Wolfram in his book, A New Kind of Science, strongly promoted binary Cellular Automata as a path for all physics. His chapter on physics was replete with the words, maybe, perhaps, etc. I bought the book, read the final chapters, returned it, and trashed it in an Amazon review. Less knowledgeable reviewers were in awe, but the more knowledgeable were not.


Interesting idea. Jumping also sounds like hidden variables that are too fast to be useful in any prediction except as a probability distribution.

If it is really at the plank level, experiments would be more than difficult.

I think that it may also be an idea for resolving entanglement. Alice's particle is still in the same jumping phase as Bobs. Since photons have a zero space and time existence, they will be in the stochastic synchrony in the time frame of a photon's (zero) existence wherein the photon will be captured the instant it is created.

I once read that the wave function for an electron also traveled at the speed of light, while the phase velocity plods along. I tried looking it up to verify it but had no luck. But that would also explain entanglement for heavier particles.
See if this logic makes sense to you:

A Hilbert space is mappable 1-1 with a Cantor space. If we talk about "paths", they are evolutions on the Hilbert space. "Between" these points, on the dust, there are intervals that are hidden "to us". They're not hidden "variables" exactly, it's weirder than that.

Let's say the Hilbert space is what we can "observe", whereas the missing intervals are unobservable. So, we're living in Flatland. What do we "see"? Well, we have a weird notion of "virtual particles" and things like that. We "see" what looks to us like uncertainty, but what we really have is "holes" in our spacetime.

The idea of "holes" is not new. Positrons started out as holes in the Dirac sea, yes? However what I'm proposing can be formally described with Morse functions. The holes are an infinite sequence of Betti numbers. The idea is, if you "tile" a space and then remove a tile, you've broken symmetry. Penrose covered tiling quite nicely.

What we can "see" in the Hilbert space amounts to a projection. To "fill" the projection we only need to map the visible portion, and such a map is provided by the spectral basis with coordinates e^2πi. A spectral Cantor measure is a probability measure that maps directly to Hilbert space.


(In the discrete case we could - possibly ha ha - use Walsh functions or something like that).

So we just need to understand the Hausdorff dimension and the Euler characteristic. Everything else stays the same, the unitary operators still work and you can derive instantons and etc.

In quantum computing there are the theories no hiding, no cloning, and no deleting. These are constraints on the symmetries. They tell us that information is a lot like energy, it can't be created or destroyed. When information appears it has to "come from" somewhere, and when it disappears it has to go somewhere. This is why the set theoretic view is so important. Stone's representation theorem tell us the relationship between Hilbert space and Cantor space is isomorphic to that of (countable, atomless) Boolean algebras. These relationships are not to be taken lightly, ultimately they PREDICT that information transfer must accompany every movement (evolution) of energy in a Hilbert space.

Information transfer can be quantified with TREES made of subsets of the space. This means the following:

1. Let us say we have a very fast stochastic process bounded on both sides by 0 and some maximal number of steps. Define S as a non empty set (we'll call it "Spacetime"). Then define S(<w) to be the set of all possible finite sequences of elements of S (where w stands for omega because I don't have a math font). Now if s is an element of S, define the "length" of s as |s|, and |empty| = 0 and if x is in S(w) then |x| = w.

2. Now put a metric topology on S by defining t such that if t is in S(<w) and s is in S(<=w) and |t| < |s| and t(i) = s(i) then t is an initial segment of s. Define a tree as a subset T of S(<=w) closed under initial segments. Put the discrete topology on S and the product topology on S(w). Define the metric as:

d(x,y) = 2 ^ (-n-1) if (x != y) ^ n = { min(i in w: x(i) != y(i) }

and 0 otherwise

3. The standard basis for this topology is the clooen sets N(s) : { x in S(w) such that s is a subset of x }.

This topology is zero dimensional.

It is isomorphic to the Cantor space.

I could go on, but you get the idea. You can build a Cantor space from "just about anything". Once you have it, you can map it to any space built from the open unit interval, which includes the Hilbert space, and then it naturally follows there is a 1-1 metric correspondence, which in our case becomes a probability measure
 
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The point is the Borel structure of these spaces is preserved. The Polish spaces have recursive construction methods but that's only so computer dweebs can draw pretty fractals. There's an infinite number of them that can be represented by simple equations and keyed off the integers. When n=3 you get a triangle gasket, n=4 gives you a Hilbert curve, higher integers give you Gosper snowflakes and etc. All of these are infinite constructions "built" from simple discrete components. They "fill" a space, and if you stop before you get to infinity you end up with "holes" in the space - which may be connected or not, depending on the construction and the dimensionality. Any such space can be glued to similar spaces which is like tiling.

Here's a concrete example. Take a Sierpinski triangle, and use the recursive (iterative) construction method. You begin with the entire triangle filled, it is a "full space" with no holes. After 1 iteration, how much of your space is filled, and how much is a hole? (1/4). After 2;iterations? 3? 4? You are "filling your space with holes", and at the end of the procedure you're left with a "dust" of triangles. You can go either way with this, you can fill space or empty it.

So now, look at the information flow. How many yes/no questions does it take to ascertain whether a particular point is filled or whether it belongs to a hole? The Boolean operation that builds the holes is "and not", which equates with subtracting subspaces. Every time you apply this operator you're creating information by partitioning the set.

In thermodynamics there is the "partition function", and there is also the Gibbs paradox and the mixing paradox. The paradoxes arise because changing the number of partitions also changes the dimensionality of the phase space. The correction factor is n! which can be understood as the number of iterations of an operator.

The same principle applies to partitioning spacetime. If you break symmetry by adding or removing a tile you're changing the dimensionality of the phase space. The set theoretic view accounts for this, the thermodynamic view does not. (That's why you need a correction factor and why you have paradoxes).

And ultimately, this is why we need transfinite descriptions like Cantor spaces. If you partition an "already infinite" Hilbert space you're going to end up with something that's "more than infinite".

Just like thermodynamics, the quantum theory does not account for this. It may be easier for bosons where all the particles can occupy the same quantum state, but harder for fermions where there is exclusion. Once again the set theoretic view comes to the rescue, if we can lift the Hilbert space up into a Cantor space.

Think of it this way: in theory, you could "fill" a Cantor space with an infinite number of copies of a Hilbert space. If you do this with a sequence (an "evolution" on a Hilbert space) you can do it with a simple infinitesimal translation operator. Each new iteration requires a translation by dx, and you'll never run out of space.

So, as with the fractal shapes, you have two choices: you can use an iterative method which is like a sequence, or you can do it all at once by mapping sets. The set-mapping method requires you to have all the information up front (which can, if you're lucky, be derived from a formula). The quantum concept of "all possible paths" is a set mapping method based on a formula.
 
See if this logic makes sense to you:
I understand some of it, but I'm not well versed in topology to see the whole picture. Many topological areas you go through are above my pay grade.
 
Yes I totally agree 100%; the weather is not random, it is deterministic but chaotic. I do not for a moment dispute that some deterministic systems are chaotic, but they are not random, if they were we'd have no need for the concept of "chaos" we'd just use "random".
I would have to agree.
 
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