Puzzling Verses in the Gospel of John--Insights/Opinions

[Meriweather]

John 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him...
John 14:6 - No one comes to the Father except through me.

This suddenly struck me as two verses at odds with each other. It seems more logical that it is either one or the other...how can it be both? Does the Father draw us to Jesus, or does Jesus alone draw us to the Father? Your thoughts?

 

[buttercup]

John 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him...
John 14:6 - No one comes to the Father except through me.

This suddenly struck me as two verses at odds with each other. It seems more logical that it is either one or the other...how can it be both? Does the Father draw us to Jesus, or does Jesus alone draw us to the Father? Your thoughts?

Here's how I say they are both true... I think that God draws all people to Him in different ways. In other words, I think that God initiates a connection with each one of us. (Don't quote me on this, but there may be a point where God no longer reaches out, if a person has repeatedly chosen to reject God and wants nothing to do with God...but that's a topic in and of itself.)

At the same time, when we respond to God and believe and receive the gift of salvation (or 'redemption' since you prefer that word), it is through Jesus. In other words, believing that JESUS paid the price for us, and it's not through our own efforts. As the bible says, the only "work" is to believe/ have faith. (John 6:29) And part of a saving faith is having a change of mind and heart, and choosing to follow Jesus.

 

[Gracie]

John 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him...
John 14:6 - No one comes to the Father except through me.

This suddenly struck me as two verses at odds with each other. It seems more logical that it is either one or the other...how can it be both? Does the Father draw us to Jesus, or does Jesus alone draw us to the Father? Your thoughts?

During the many MANY translations to make the bible the bible...one of the translators was dyslexic.

 

[Gracie]

God draws all people to Him in different ways. In other words, I think that God initiates a connection with each one of us.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS^^^^^^

 

[Calypso Jones]

God draws but you must believe in Christ.

 

[sear]

John 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him...
John 14:6 - No one comes to the Father except through me.
Your thoughts?

I think that book, & most others in the Holy Bible, arose from a substantially pre-literate culture. Newspapers were not what they wrapped fish in back then.

I think much of it is written mystically, because they are mythical stories. Who would care about a god as ordinary as Chief Justice Roberts?

And let us please not conflate religion with god. They are not the same.

 

[Calypso Jones]

I think the ancients are more intelligent than we are inclined to give them credit for.

After all...they built the structures than many are standing today. Because they knew how to mix the material that made it last... We don't or we're too damn lazy to do it

 

[Meriweather]

I think the ancients are more intelligent than we are inclined to give them credit for.

Agree. In fact, I am convinced of it.

 

[Meriweather]

Here's how I say they are both true... I think that God draws all people to Him in different ways. In other words, I think that God initiates a connection with each one of us. (Don't quote me on this, but there may be a point where God no longer reaches out, if a person has repeatedly chosen to reject God and wants nothing to do with God...but that's a topic in and of itself.)

I agree that God reaches out to everyone in different ways.

I am puzzled with John--how in one chapter the Father draws people to Christ; in the later one, Christ takes people to God. Maybe it is as simple as John implies--both ways, not one or the other.

I am convinced it is the tiny whispering sound where we discover God. God is always there. I am more inclined that is the person, not God, who ceases to pursue that tiny whisper.

 

[Meriweather]

During the many MANY translations to make the bible the bible...one of the translators was dyslexic.

While perhaps not dyslexic, you make a good point. Students consistently mix up subject-object

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

The bible is full of contradiction, "walk backs", and "back tracks".

This is what got me into researching religion and finding out for myself if it's all BS or something else. I despise hypocrisy, it is evil incarnate.

 

[Meriweather]

The bible is full of contradiction, "walk backs", and "back tracks".

Almost every book in the Bible had a different author--some books had more than one author. They were written at different times, covering different events. Life is not a one-size-fits-all every day. It is up to us to learn to distinguish when not to put our light under a bushel basket, and when not to let our left hand know what our right hand is doing.

The verses in John caught my attention because they were written in the same book by the same man. Usually a reason can be found when a contradiction is spotted. With this one, I cannot find a reason that completely satisfies me.

 

[Gracie]

I don't trust all that the transcribers transcribed. Nope.

 

[Gracie]

Does the Father draw us to Jesus, or does Jesus alone draw us to the Father? Your thoughts?

Both, I presume.

You are drawn to a smell in the air...TACOS! Yum! But you have no money. Bummer. But you know where those tacos are. You can always go back and get one later.

Same concept. No taco, no money. Got money, get a taco. In this case...God/Jesus.

 

[foggedinn]

I don't see the contradiction. Don't know if you are overthinking it or underthinking it. Both passages stand alone as revealed truth.

 

[buttercup]

I agree that God reaches out to everyone in different ways.

I am puzzled with John--how in one chapter the Father draws people to Christ; in the later one, Christ takes people to God. Maybe it is as simple as John implies--both ways, not one or the other.

I am convinced it is the tiny whispering sound where we discover God. God is always there. I am more inclined that is the person, not God, who ceases to pursue that tiny whisper.

I replied to that in the second paragraph, but you only quoted the first paragraph of my post.

I think Calypso said it best, in much fewer words than me, in post #5.

 

[onefour1]

I think you who have brought up the spirit of God are correct. I believe that God at times in our lives moves upon our souls by the power of the Holy Ghost. If one follows those promptings and is lead by them, he/she will find themselves attracted to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

If one receives the gospel of Jesus Christ they will repent of all their wrong doings and be baptized by water and afterwards have the gift of the Holy Ghost conferred upon them. A person can be moved upon by the Holy Ghost at times in their life but once they take upon the Gift of the Holy Ghost, they can have his influence in their lives as a constant companion if they continue being faithful. Baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost is the entering in at the straight and narrow gate.

By so doing, Jesus' gospel, through the power of the Holy Ghost, will lead you back into the presence of your Heavenly Father.

Acts 2:37-39
37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The gift of the Holy Ghost is given to all those who humble themselves and are baptized unto the Lord. It is conferred by those having authority in the priesthood by the laying on of hands of those who administer in this sacred ordinance. (see Acts 8)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How are they contradictory? God draws all to him and uses Jesus to be accepted as followers and saved.

 

[.oldschool]

People were drawn to God before Jesus was born so clearly a different analysis of these verses is required.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

NO they are not. Jesus was the NEW way to God as established by the Bible, God attracts Jesus saves.