Putin warns Russia will be at war with NATO if leaders lift Ukraine missile restrictions

[Zavulon]

Any one of those ifs ios a pipe dream all three are a drug induced fantasy

People do work about all of them. How sucessfully - the war will demonstrate. But even bad our counter-force strike is better (for us) than the first strike of Americans.

Eliminating SSBNs in bases is irrelevant the ones at sea are impossible to find and stop and they alone can totally destroy russia

No, they can't. Russia is big and 40-400 warheads will hurt it, but definitely not "destroy". What is even more important... If you, even after our counter-force strike (after which you have no any chance to "win" the war) still determined to attack Russia, and if you are going to attack Russia immediately (refusing Russian suggestion about two days humanitarian pause to evacuate at least children from the cities) - then you are definitely irrational, and it was good idea to kill you before you tried to kill us.

If you believe that your SSBNs are really invulnerable in the ocean (its not true, of course), and their nukes are absolutely devastating, its quite rational to accept himanitarian pause and evacuate your children.

 

[Soupnazi630]

People do work about all of them. How sucessfully - the war will demonstrate. But even bad our counter-force strike is better (for us) than the first strike of Americans.

No, they can't. Russia is big and 40-400 warheads will hurt it, but definitely not "destroy". What is even more important... If you, even after our counter-force strike (after which you have no any chance to "win" the war) still determined to attack Russia, and if you are going to attack Russia immediately (refusing Russian suggestion about two days humanitarian pause to evacuate at least children from the cities) - then you are definitely irrational, and it was good idea to kill you before you tried to kill us.

If you believe that your SSBNs are really invulnerable in the ocean (its not true, of course), and their nukes are absolutely devastating, its quite rational to accept himanitarian pause and evacuate your children.

Wrong

Russia is big but mostly empty. The warheads from two SSBNS would destroy it in totality

It is true they are invulnerable

 

[Zavulon]

Wrong

Russia is big but mostly empty.

And there is a lot of place to evacuate civilians (if the Russians make their preparations before the attack).

The warheads from two SSBNS would destroy it in totality

No. You need full salvo of one SSBN to totally destroy Moscow only, plus at least one more SSBN salvo to overwhelm the Moscow's ABD. So, two SSBNs can destroy Moscow only. And Moscow is expendable (especially if the most important part of its population is already evacuated and those who remain - sheltered). During WWII Germans destroyed hundreds of Russia's cities and towns but they lost the war.

It is true they are invulnerable

No. Their "invulnerability" is based exclusively on their stealthiness. And as it was demonstrated in the operations "Atrey" and "Atrina" - they were not that stealthy even back in 1980s. And from then - there have been really amazing progress in sensors, communications and computing technologies.

 

[Soupnazi630]

And there is a lot of place to evacuate civilians (if the Russians make their preparations before the attack).


No. You need full salvo of one SSBN to totally destroy Moscow only, plus at least one more SSBN salvo to overwhelm the Moscow's ABD. So, two SSBNs can destroy Moscow only. And Moscow is expendable (especially if the most important part of its population is already evacuated and those who remain - sheltered). During WWII Germans destroyed hundreds of Russia's cities and towns but they lost the war.


No. Their "invulnerability" is based exclusively on their stealthiness. And as it was demonstrated in the operations "Atrey" and "Atrina" - they were not that stealthy even back in 1980s. And from then - there have been really amazing progress in sensors, communications and computing technologies.

Wrong
. there is no place to evecuate civilians and in fact they have no adequate defenses against nukes.

Moscow only needs one warhead

they never deminstrated any defense

 

[Zavulon]

Wrong
. there is no place to evecuate civilians and in fact they have no adequate defenses against nukes.

There are a lot of place in Russia. There are adequate ABD systems.

Moscow only needs one warhead

Square of Moscow is 2561,5 km²

The square of the total demolition caused by 100 kt (typical W76-1 warhead) surface burst is roughly 13 sq km, by the optimal height air burst - roghly 30 sq km.
Now calculate.

 

[Zavulon]

they never deminstrated any defense

Just read documents about operations Atrey and Atrina. As far as I know - they were declassified recently. Soviet Navy has the opportunity to locate, and, if necessary, eliminate at least few American SSBNs in the sea before they launched their missles. Today it is much more easier.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Just read documents about operations Atrey and Atrina. As far as I know - they were declassified recently. Soviet Navy has the opportunity to locate, and, if necessary, eliminate at least few American SSBNs in the sea before they launched their missles. Today it is much more easier.

No they do not

The laws of physics still apply and it is virtually impossible

 

[Soupnazi630]

There are a lot of place in Russia. There are adequate ABD systems.



Square of Moscow is 2561,5 km²

The square of the total demolition caused by 100 kt (typical W76-1 warhead) surface burst is roughly 13 sq km, by the optimal height air burst - roghly 30 sq km.
Now calculate.

No there are not Their ABD defenses are a sham

Our SSBN warheads are typically 250 KT or better

 

[Zavulon]

No they do not

The laws of physics still apply and it is virtually impossible

The laws of physics allow find SSBNs. You know - noise, temperature, magnetic field, gravity, etc. Actually, according the laws of physics, there is no way to really hide a bubble of air in the water. The only question is effectiveness of your sensors and computers (or how loud is its environment). And they make a really good progress on the recent fifty years.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The laws of physics allow find SSBNs. You know - noise, temperature, magnetic field, gravity, etc. Actually, according the laws of physics, there is no way to really hide a bubble of air in the water. The only question is effectiveness of your sensors and computers (or how loud is its environment). And they make a really good progress on the recent fifty years.

Wrong

Our SSBNs are the definition of queit and even we cannot find them and out technology is far superior

temerature difference can be detected only at close range in other words when they change directly where you are Gravity is not a method of detecting them and MAD detectors only work at very close range

You will never find them

 

[Zavulon]

No there are not Their ABD defenses are a sham

We'll see.

Our SSBN warheads are typically 250 KT or better

No. The most typical Trident II warhead is W76-1, it is 90 kt.

 

[Zavulon]

Wrong

Our SSBNs are the definition of queit and even we cannot find them and out technology is far superior

temerature difference can be detected only at close range in other words when they change directly where you are Gravity is not a method of detecting them and MAD detectors only work at very close range

You will never find them

We were more or less successfuly finding them in 1970-80s. It's not that it was easy, it demanded some tricks, but it was possible (and now it is much easier). So, if the Russia is the aggressor and keep initiative at least one or two of your Atlantic SSBNs are dead at the first strike. If China is also in game and their "civilian fishermen" share information with Russia (or Chinese "auxiliary cruisers" covertly participate in it) - it is plus (or minus?) one or two US SSBNs in Pacific.

 

[Soupnazi630]

We'll see.

No. The most typical Trident II warhead is W76-1, it is 90 kt.
View attachment 1051562

Your information is out dated. the trident IID5le has a 475 KT warhead

 

[Soupnazi630]

We were more or less successfuly finding them in 1970-80s. It's not that it was easy, it demanded some tricks, but it was possible (and now it is much easier). So, if the Russia is the aggressor and keep initiative at least one or two of your Atlantic SSBNs are dead at the first strike. If China is also in game and their "civilian fishermen" share information with Russia (or Chinese "auxiliary cruisers" covertly participate in it) - it is plus (or minus?) one or two US SSBNs in Pacific.

You never were

No Ohio class has ever been found

 

[Zavulon]

Your information is out dated. the trident IID5le has a 475 KT warhead

Trident II can bear re-entry vehicle MK-5 with W-88 455 kt warhead since 1990. Actually, it is the oldest warhead which is at service today. The problem is that there are only 384 of them and 1511 of 90 kt W76-1 (which is, as I said, the most typical warhead in the US nuclear arsenal).

 

[Zavulon]

You never were

No Ohio class has ever been found

As I said - wishful thinking. Just read recently declassified documents.

 

[Soupnazi630]

As I said - wishful thinking. Just read recently declassified documents.

Nope fact none of them have been found

 

[Soupnazi630]

Trident II can bear re-entry vehicle MK-5 with W-88 455 kt warhead since 1990. Actually, it is the oldest warhead which is at service today. The problem is that there are only 384 of them and 1511 of 90 kt W76-1 (which is, as I said, the most typical warhead in the US nuclear arsenal).

That is not a problem.

Those 384 alone can destroy russia

 

[Zavulon]

That is not a problem.

Those 384 alone can destroy russia

Most of those 384 will be destroyed by the first Russian strike. As I said - the typical US warhead is 90 kt W76-1. And the radius of the total destruction for 455 kt warhead is only roughly 1.7 times larger than for 90 kt.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Any one of those ifs ios a pipe dream all three are a drug induced fantasy

Eliminating SSBNs in bases is irrelevant the ones at sea are impossible to find and stop and they alone can totally destroy russia

Plus the silos are designed to endure a nuclear hit and stay operational and the B-2s and B-1s can be dispersed to civilian airports in time of high international tensions. The Russians are not going to damage the USA’s nuclear triad before it is committed to battle.