Purgatory, revisited. (with Scripture)

[ninja007]

What does the Bible say about Purgatory?

 

[turzovka]

purgatory is a very very dangerous teaching. There are no second chances once you die- see Lazarus and the rich man. Many rc's think they will eventually go to heaven, but unless they accept Jesus as their personal Savior in THIS life they are going to HELL.

You could have put all your thoughts into one post instead of four, I would not have gotten confused.

>>Many roman catholics think they will eventually go to heaven, but unless they accept Jesus as their personal Savior in THIS life they are going to HELL<<

Matthew 7:1-2 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.”

A thousand saints are here to tell you your arrogance and particular narrowly defined theology is a danger to you and to other believers you mock. You are too full of yourself to humble yourself and discern. I have no misconceptions about that.

 

[Iceweasel]

purgatory is a very very dangerous teaching. There are no second chances once you die- see Lazarus and the rich man. Many rc's think they will eventually go to heaven, but unless they accept Jesus as their personal Savior in THIS life they are going to HELL.

You could have put all your thoughts into one post instead of four, I would not have gotten confused.

>>Many roman catholics think they will eventually go to heaven, but unless they accept Jesus as their personal Savior in THIS life they are going to HELL<<

Matthew 7:1-2 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.”

A thousand saints are here to tell you your arrogance and particular narrowly defined theology is a danger to you and to other believers you mock. You are too full of yourself to humble yourself and discern. I have no misconceptions about that.

Problem is you can't back up your assertions so pretending victory is like the clucking pigeon on the chessboard.

 

[turzovka]

Problem is you can't back up your assertions so pretending victory is like the clucking pigeon on the chessboard.

No. The problem is I cannot relate to someone who thinks like a 3rd grader and acts like cocky know-it-all teenager.

 

[ninja007]

purgatory is a very very dangerous teaching. There are no second chances once you die- see Lazarus and the rich man. Many rc's think they will eventually go to heaven, but unless they accept Jesus as their personal Savior in THIS life they are going to HELL.

You could have put all your thoughts into one post instead of four, I would not have gotten confused.

>>Many roman catholics think they will eventually go to heaven, but unless they accept Jesus as their personal Savior in THIS life they are going to HELL<<

Matthew 7:1-2 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.”

A thousand saints are here to tell you your arrogance and particular narrowly defined theology is a danger to you and to other believers you mock. You are too full of yourself to humble yourself and discern. I have no misconceptions about that.

Matthew 7:1-2 has nothing to do with what you think it is. Believer's ARE supposed to judge others.

 

[ninja007]

Is all judging hypocrisy? No. If I understand myself to be a sinner deserving the wrath of God and that I am only saved by the grace of God and that I am no better than any other sinner, then I may lawfully judge that another man’s behavior is in fact wrong and sinful. I may also declare that such sin is wrong. Did Jesus really intend for His disciples to see only goodness in everyone else? If the disciples were to hear someone curse, were they to maintain some sort of a blank slate in their mind about whether that cursing was sin or not? Were they to think cursing a good thing? Were they to think it an indifferent thing? Were they under obligation to remain silent about it? No, on all counts! Yet this seems to be the very application many today make concerning “Judge not lest you be judged.”


Read the New Testament (as well as the OT, which is also inspired) and you will easily see that the disciples formed judgments about the conduct and behavior of other people all the time. What’s more, they verbalized those judgments. The following are examples:

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.” (Rom. 1:18-27)

In this passage Paul passes judgment on mankind for being unrighteous, for suppressing the truth, for choosing idols instead of God, for not giving God honor, for not giving thanks, for professing to be wise, and for exchanging the natural sexual function for degrading passions like homosexuality. What shall we say to Paul? “Judge not, lest you be judged.” Was Paul violating his own principle of not judging others in the very next chapter, Romans 2? I don’t think so. Was Paul judging people who practice those sins? Yes, he was. Was he guilty of the kind of judging Jesus prohibited? No, he wasn’t. He wasn’t being hypocritical. Paul was not practicing those sins. Paul was not saying that he was innocent of all sin. Paul was also not meddling with specks in the eyes of others while he had a log in his own eye.



“Judge Not, Lest You Be Judged” – The Most Misunderstood and Abused Verse in All of Scripture | SermonAudio.com

the rcc catechism only has 7 verses they have interpreted. What about the other 99.9
% of the bible? Most Catholics are clueless when interpreting the Word in proper context. Heck, they think symbolic verses are literal and literal symbolic. They think Revelation is all allegory and metaphor.

 

[turzovka]

Matthew 7:1-2 has nothing to do with what you think it is. Believer's ARE supposed to judge others.

Here are your words: "Many rc's think they will eventually go to heaven, but unless they accept Jesus as their personal Savior in THIS life they are going to HELL."

THAT is JUDGING in a way neither you nor I have any authority or right to declare. Only God judges the worth of a soul, we cannot tell anyone what they deserve. It is wrong and sinful.

And your one way only of getting to heaven is another total misunderstanding of the mercy of God. You sidestep all those other troubling verses and that pattern continues around here and around so many other places. Go read Matthew 25:31-46 for starters. Then tell me who you dare judge and what they deserve.

 

[ninja007]

Matthew 7:1-2 has nothing to do with what you think it is. Believer's ARE supposed to judge others.

Here are your words: "Many rc's think they will eventually go to heaven, but unless they accept Jesus as their personal Savior in THIS life they are going to HELL."

THAT is JUDGING in a way neither you nor I have any authority or right to declare. Only God judges the worth of a soul, we cannot tell anyone what they deserve. It is wrong and sinful.

And your one way only of getting to heaven is another total misunderstanding of the mercy of God. You sidestep all those other troubling verses and that pattern continues around here and around so many other places. Go read Matthew 25:31-46 for starters. Then tell me who you dare judge and what they deserve.

Their is only one way to heaven- accept Jesus as your Savior. Pretty simple but of course you do not understand because of your church.

 

[ninja007]

http://www.raptureforums.com/RomanCatholicism/catholicsalvationplan.jpg

 

[ninja007]

True Church


¨ Membership by Spirit baptism.
¨ There is no salvation outside this church.
¨ Members enter by God’s will upon believing His Gospel.
¨ Members are secure in Christ, can never be excommunicated.
¨ One authority—the infallible Word of God.
¨ One Head and One Mediator.
¨ Foundation is Jesus and the Apostles.
¨ Proclaims the true Gospel.
¨ Justified by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
¨ Promise of future glory with Jesus Christ.



Roman Catholic Church

n Membership by water baptism.
n There is salvation outside this church.
n Members enter by man’s will or by parents’ desire.
n Members are not secure, can be excommunicated and condemned to hell.
n Three authorities—the Bible, Tradition and the infallible Magesterium.
n Two Heads, many mediators.
n Foundation is Peter.
n Proclaims another gospel.
n Justified by faith plus works.
n Promise of a purging or punishing fire for sins.


Is the One True Church Roman Catholic

 

[turzovka]

Roman Catholic Church
n Membership by water baptism.
n There is salvation outside this church.
n Members enter by man’s will or by parents’ desire.
n Members are not secure, can be excommunicated and condemned to hell.
n Three authorities—the Bible, Tradition and the infallible Magesterium.
n Two Heads, many mediators.
n Foundation is Peter.
n Proclaims another gospel.
n Justified by faith plus works.
n Promise of a purging or punishing fire for sins.

Well what you or your source posted here wasn’t totally unfair, unlike so many other accusations. I am not an authority on Rome, but the first half I do not object much, the second half I would say this ----

n Two Heads, many mediators. - - - No. One head, many mediators.

n Foundation is Peter. - - - Foundation is Jesus Christ, not Peter. Peter was the first earthly head of the Church appointed by Jesus who instituted an ordained authority to continue instructing the faithful.

n Proclaims another gospel. - - - Proclaims thee gospel more truthfully and in greater fulfillment than the other ecclesiastical communities (as Pope Benedict would refer to your denominations, and not as churches)

n Justified by faith plus works. - - - Justified by faith and/or works. E.g. Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

n Promise of a purging or punishing fire for sins. - - - Promise? Or a possibility for the many? Some solely entrusted to God are allowed into the kingdom immediately upon their death.

 

[ninja007]

if you believe in purgatory you say you don't trust in Jesus to cleanse you from all sin...

 

[danielpalos]

What if Earth is Purgatory instead of Heaven or Hell?

 

[turzovka]

if you believe in purgatory you say you don't trust in Jesus to cleanse you from all sin...

And if you say you believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, then you don't trust what it is saying. Because you ignore contemplating all those passages I cited. You cannot account for what it means when Jesus said "my Father in heaven will turn you over to the torturers until you have paid for your transgressions." And the operative word is UNTIL. Which means at that point you are released from the torturers or released from prison in another passage cited.

Those are just two of 25+ passages you and your protestant friends pretend are not stumbling blocks for your 'immediate passage into heaven" just because you have faith. No, God is asking for MUCH MORE than just faith.

 

[ninja007]

if you believe in purgatory you say you don't trust in Jesus to cleanse you from all sin...

And if you say you believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, then you don't trust what it is saying. Because you ignore contemplating all those passages I cited. You cannot account for what it means when Jesus said "my Father in heaven will turn you over to the torturers until you have paid for your transgressions." And the operative word is UNTIL. Which means at that point you are released from the torturers or released from prison in another passage cited.

Those are just two of 25+ passages you and your protestant friends pretend are not stumbling blocks for your 'immediate passage into heaven" just because you have faith. No, God is asking for MUCH MORE than just faith.

twisting scripture is the rc way. That isn't talking about a purgatory.This parable is teaching us that we are to forgive others their trespasses as the Lord God forgives us ours.