Published 1 day ago Marines say they're being 'crushed' over vaccine refusal: 'A political purge'

[Mushroom]

victim card

"Victim Card"? Hardly at all. Of course, I also am not trying to portray the military as "victims" either, unlike the other side.

But yes, the health care workers do fall under Public Safety, as they fall tightly under the U.S. Public Health Service. Which does indeed fall under the Executive Branch, as that is part of the US Department of Health and Human Services, a Cabinet level branch of the government.

Just as each branch of the military is part of the Department of Defense, under the Secretary of Defense.

Which the President as the Chief Executive does have control over. Unlike most Civilian Businesses, which is where he did indeed lose as he has no authority at all over them. As he actually rightfully should have, as I do think he overstepped his authority by trying to order civilians who are no part of the government in any form to get vaccinated.

If this discussion had been about the right of the President to order all who work for private businesses, I stand firmly against such an order. As the President is not a king, and does not have the authority to impose that upon the general population. But for those that fall under the Executive Branch, he does. However, also interestingly enough he also has no authority over the other two branches, so can not order the Judiciary or Legislative branch to get vaccinated, without their consent.

And I am not sure to be honest if even the Legislative Branch can create a law mandating vaccinations upon the public, once again the Judiciary would likely throw that out. And of course the Judiciary has no authority at all to do such a thing.

You have to understand, I am not political. I simply look at precedent, and the limits of powers as already established.

 

[cnm]

The refusal to approve religious exemption s is the DOD prohibiting the free excercised of religion.

The constitution doesn't talk about the DoD, it says Congress shall make no law...Congress has made no law that you can show me, so everything is copacetic as far as the constitution is concerned.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

And that is in the private sector. Not in the military.

Do please try to keep them straight. The military is completely different, and the limits for one can not be confused with the limits on the other.

But notice, it also allowed the mandate for health care workers. So part of it does indeed still stand.

And that's the mandat I'm referring to.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

The constitution doesn't talk about the DoD, it says Congress shall make no law...Congress has made no law that you can show me, so everything is copacetic as far as the constitution is concerned.

The DOD is bound by the Constitution and the Constitution protects the right to the free expression of religion. Stop cherry picking like a buffoon.

 

[Vrenn]

"Victim Card"? Hardly at all. Of course, I also am not trying to portray the military as "victims" either, unlike the other side.

But yes, the health care workers do fall under Public Safety, as they fall tightly under the U.S. Public Health Service. Which does indeed fall under the Executive Branch, as that is part of the US Department of Health and Human Services, a Cabinet level branch of the government.

Just as each branch of the military is part of the Department of Defense, under the Secretary of Defense.

Which the President as the Chief Executive does have control over. Unlike most Civilian Businesses, which is where he did indeed lose as he has no authority at all over them. As he actually rightfully should have, as I do think he overstepped his authority by trying to order civilians who are no part of the government in any form to get vaccinated.

If this discussion had been about the right of the President to order all who work for private businesses, I stand firmly against such an order. As the President is not a king, and does not have the authority to impose that upon the general population. But for those that fall under the Executive Branch, he does. However, also interestingly enough he also has no authority over the other two branches, so can not order the Judiciary or Legislative branch to get vaccinated, without their consent.

And I am not sure to be honest if even the Legislative Branch can create a law mandating vaccinations upon the public, once again the Judiciary would likely throw that out. And of course the Judiciary has no authority at all to do such a thing.

You have to understand, I am not political. I simply look at precedent, and the limits of powers as already established.

See, when you stop playing the victim card you can actually discuss things.

The way i read it when I read the actual ruling, it wasn't denied for intent. It was denied for content. SCOTUS left quite a bunch of loopholes for Biden and Congress to operate with. Before all these antivaxers start dancing in the streets, the only reason it was half bounced were the conditions and wording isn't quite right.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

See, when you stop playing the victim card you can actually discuss things.

The way i read it when I read the actual ruling, it wasn't denied for intent. It was denied for content. SCOTUS left quite a bunch of loopholes for Biden and Congress to operate with. Before all these antivaxers start dancing in the streets, the only reason it was half bounced were the conditions and wording isn't quite right.

It was bounced because OSHA doesn't have the authority to push a vaccine mandate and neither OSHA, nor the president can give OSHA that authority.

 

[Mushroom]

and the Constitution protects the right to the free expression of religion.

And as shown earlier in Goldman V. Weinburger they indeed can.

Funny how you refuse to ever recognize that fact.

 

[Mushroom]

SCOTUS left quite a bunch of loopholes for Biden and Congress to operate with. Before all these antivaxers start dancing in the streets, the only reason it was half bounced were the conditions and wording isn't quite right.

I agree. It would take an actual law from Congress, and to be honest I am not sure if it would last more than 72 hours before a stay was slapped on one if they tried. But that is for private enterprise, I think that passing it through government bodies would be much easier. As they like the military have the power to hire and fire, and can simply suspend somebody if they refuse.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

And as shown earlier in Goldman V. Weinburger they indeed can.

Funny how you refuse to ever recognize that fact.

And like I said, let a unit commander deny a soldier's access to worship services, or a chaplain and see what happens. How do you think that would go over?

 

[Vrenn]

I agree. It would take an actual law from Congress, and to be honest I am not sure if it would last more than 72 hours before a stay was slapped on one if they tried. But that is for private enterprise, I think that passing it through government bodies would be much easier. As they like the military have the power to hire and fire, and can simply suspend somebody if they refuse.

Make it cost the big businesses to not require what Biden wants.

 

[Mushroom]

And like I said, let a unit commander deny a soldier's access to worship services, or a chaplain and see what happens. How do you think that would go over?

It happens all the damned time if the needs of the mission take priority.

But as most services are Friday night through Sunday morning, the vast majority are off duty on those days so it is not even worth mentioning.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

That little mini drag queen always has a look that says it's stoned. They've got it on drugs.

That poor child has a name. It's Desmond. He is autistic. His mother uses him to make money by stripping in gay bars as pedophiles put money in his pants. Yes.. he is heavily medicated. His autism makes that necessary.

In a better world, with the better people that we were, this sorry excuse for a mother would have been dealt with.

 

[westwall]

No, it literally is a new vaccine, reformulated every single year, to try and predict the next variant of flu that will hit. What, do you honestly think we just get the same vaccine every year?

Flu shot: Your best bet for avoiding influenza

Get answers to your flu vaccine questions, including whether the vaccines are effective, what forms are available and what side effects you can expect.

www.mayoclinic.org

"Mandate lie" indeed. How about a retraction, since you had been caught saying something untrue?

Wait, what am I thinking? You keep getting caught like this over and over again, and retract nothing.

This is almost correct. They use mutated dead flu viruses. The medium is well established and safe.

The covid vaxx is not. It is a brand new, untested, and so far, ineffective MrNA based vaccine. The difference being the covid vax actually changes the recipients DNA.

The longterm effects are unknown. Thinking people are asking why congress has exempted themselves from the vax, and we the people who funded it don't get to see the paper work for 75 years.

 

[Mushroom]

The difference being the covid vax actually changes the recipients DNA.

Holy hell, really?

Now please tell us how a virus changes your DNA.

That statement alone screams that you follow some batshit crazy conspiracy theory sites.

FYI, all virus inject some of their genetic material into the host, that is how a virus works in the first place, since it is not a complete genetic being, only half of one. But they do not integrate themselves as you are saying, other than what may be remote fragments in future generations if there is a biological advantage to keeping it. That is how the "Sickle Cell" entered the human genome. It came from a virus, and had the advantage that those that inherited it were more resistant to malaria. Hence, why it is now found in populations that are descended from areas where malaria was a risk.

 

[westwall]

Holy hell, really?

Now please tell us how a virus changes your DNA.

That statement alone screams that you follow some batshit crazy conspiracy theory sites.

FYI, all virus inject some of their genetic material into the host, that is how a virus works in the first place, since it is not a complete genetic being, only half of one. But they do not integrate themselves as you are saying, other than what may be remote fragments in future generations if there is a biological advantage to keeping it. That is how the "Sickle Cell" entered the human genome. It came from a virus, and had the advantage that those that inherited it were more resistant to malaria. Hence, why it is now found in populations that are descended from areas where malaria was a risk.

I suggest you do some research of your own. Viruses break DNA strands. That makes you susceptible to other diseases like various types of cancer.

I am serious, you should do some reading on the relationship between certain viral infections and cancer.

 

[Vrenn]

This is almost correct. They use mutated dead flu viruses. The medium is well established and safe.

The covid vaxx is not. It is a brand new, untested, and so far, ineffective MrNA based vaccine. The difference being the covid vax actually changes the recipients DNA.

The longterm effects are unknown. Thinking people are asking why congress has exempted themselves from the vax, and we the people who funded it don't get to see the paper work for 75 years.

Technically, it's been under clinical trial for 2 years. When will that be enough for you antivaxxers. The Salks vaccine had about the same clinical trial that the Covid did. The difference between the two for clinical trials is that the actual clinical trial for the Covid is just a little less. And Covid didn't have another one that was approved that was a killer worse than the disease like Polio did.

The Polio before, during and after is within my lifetime. We were a different nation back then. America WAS the greatest Nation on the Earth. And Polio was just another way that we proved it being the first nation to wipe out Polio and helping the rest of the world wipe it out as well. Americans didn't say "No, I refuse to take it" in droves. They went to their Medicals or Community Houses (damn, I miss community houses) and made a party or a community gathering of it. Those that refused were placed in isolation and kept there. That means, no going into the public, no going in to work unless you could do it from home, and a lot of other restrictions. Those that think you and react that way and still went out into the public were taking a chance that they could be sent up to prison isolation ward until all dangers from Polio past. Those with families worried about their kids health and the Salks Vaccine kept their children safer than without it.

You want to make America Great Again? Step one, worry about ALL American Children's health and get yourself vaxxed and if your children are authorized, get them vaxxed as well. America is NOT the greatest nation of the earth but we damn were in the past.

 

[Mushroom]

Viruses break DNA strands.

That does not mean the same thing that they get passed along onto DNA. Nor that more than a fraction of the cells in a body have this happen.

 

[AsherN]

Trump did not oversee the debacle.

The Taliban broke the original agreement by attacking the US after the agreement, thus making it null and void anyway.

And even if Trump did withdraw troops, would he have left all that equipment behind? Would he have left Americans behind? Would as many have been killed? Keep in mind, the withdraw date was 100% arbitrary, but Biden pushed through anyway even though they were not ready.

Yes, he would have left the equipment behind. It is cheaper to replace all that gear than to prep it and transport it.

 

[Mushroom]

Yes, he would have left the equipment behind. It is cheaper to replace all that gear than to prep it and transport it.

Not all of it, as the exit was rushed and half-assed. But a lot of equipment would have been left behind. Technically we turned it all over to the Afghan government, but it was collapsing as soon as we started the withdrawal.

Every time we leave anyplace though we leave behind stuff. Much simply costs more to transport back to the US than it is even worth. You can still look at the bases we had in Kuwait and see tons of stuff just sitting there.

Anybody that has transited to and from the ME would have passed through CAAS in Kuwait. A decade or so ago the area below was a major base, and each of those cement squares on the ground was a Tent for the Army.

Ali Al Salem Air Base

www.google.com

But if you looked in around 2016, the Army had already left and all of the tents were starting to rot away, as well as a ton of other equipment left behind. They turned it all over to Kuwait, and some they recovered and used, others just sat there until it was all thrown away. What is the point of trying to recover yet another HMMWV or 5 ton truck when it needs a lot of work to even get it to the dock? Then all the hassle to clean it then ship it back? Just leave it behind, not worth the effort or money.