Public Union Rights

[hortysir]

In black and white.

Then why is the left against Citizens United v. FEC?
From your reasoning the Supreme Court ruled correctly.

Money isn't speech. Corporations aren't people.

Ya might wanna take that up with Obama's SCOTUS

 

[Sallow]

Where do you get the right to collectively bargain your employment from this?

Where don't you?

Hey if you want complete laissez faire..have at it. No protection for either side.

See how that works out.

Because it was sorta tried.

Nobody said anything about complete laissez faire, and no protections, why do you always jump to the extreme opposite?

Are you not one of the people who despise crony capitalism? Why then do you favor it for the unions? Is it because they're on your side, syphoning big money to the dems?

Why of course not..because you guys want all the marbles on the side of the owners. Strike? No problemo, the cops will protect the scabs entering the factories.

The income disparity in this country is a testament to how beaten down Unions are..and now that the private sector has effectively dismantled them..they are going for public sector Unions.

 

[martybegan]

In black and white.

Where do you get the right to collectively bargain your employment from this?

I'm guessing that.....

Seems like a stretch, but my question was answered

Thats as an individual, I dont see how this leaps to making unionization a right.

 

[Sallow]

Then why is the left against Citizens United v. FEC?
From your reasoning the Supreme Court ruled correctly.

Money isn't speech. Corporations aren't people.

Ya might wanna take that up with Obama's SCOTUS

One can hope.

 

[StevenC]

Sounds like democracy. This wasn't an easy thing to do.

i disagree.......

i have alot of problems with unions for government employees......

in the private sector, the company dealing with the union always has the option of closing its doors or moving to another location if it does not like the union demands..... or if it does accept them, there is always the possibility that the company could not sustain the demands and go out of business......
i have no problem with that......


now, the same cannot be applied to the govenrment, it does not have the option of closing shop or moving to another location or even going out of business......... therefore it is forced to comply with union demands....
i have alot of problem with that........

Ah so when you take employment with the government you lose the right to form Unions.

FDR thought so.

 

[Sallow]

i disagree.......

i have alot of problems with unions for government employees......

in the private sector, the company dealing with the union always has the option of closing its doors or moving to another location if it does not like the union demands..... or if it does accept them, there is always the possibility that the company could not sustain the demands and go out of business......
i have no problem with that......


now, the same cannot be applied to the govenrment, it does not have the option of closing shop or moving to another location or even going out of business......... therefore it is forced to comply with union demands....
i have alot of problem with that........

Ah so when you take employment with the government you lose the right to form Unions.

FDR thought so.

And?

 

[Vaard]

Sounds like democracy. This wasn't an easy thing to do.

i disagree.......

i have alot of problems with unions for government employees......

in the private sector, the company dealing with the union always has the option of closing its doors or moving to another location if it does not like the union demands..... or if it does accept them, there is always the possibility that the company could not sustain the demands and go out of business......
i have no problem with that......


now, the same cannot be applied to the govenrment, it does not have the option of closing shop or moving to another location or even going out of business......... therefore it is forced to comply with union demands....
i have alot of problem with that........

Ah so when you take employment with the government you lose the right to form Unions.

i think so yes......

at least as far as wages and benefits go.......

for the protection of workers safety or defending accusations, i support there being unions.......

 

[editec]

Yeah, I so totally agree.

Military pensions ARE very generous.

 

[Wiseacre]

Where don't you?

Hey if you want complete laissez faire..have at it. No protection for either side.

See how that works out.

Because it was sorta tried.

Nobody said anything about complete laissez faire, and no protections, why do you always jump to the extreme opposite?

Are you not one of the people who despise crony capitalism? Why then do you favor it for the unions? Is it because they're on your side, syphoning big money to the dems?

Why of course not..because you guys want all the marbles on the side of the owners. Strike? No problemo, the cops will protect the scabs entering the factories.

The income disparity in this country is a testament to how beaten down Unions are..and now that the private sector has effectively dismantled them..they are going for public sector Unions.

And you guys want all the marbles on the side of the unions. Let's not change the subject, public union CB rights are nothing less than crony capitalism. Perfect example in fact. And yet you're okay with that but not for anybody else.

 

[hortysir]

Yeah, I so totally agree.

Military pensions ARE very generous.

Because loading 110lb powder bags into a 16' inch gun is SSSoooo similar to a city sanitation worker

 

[DaGoose]

It's a very simple equation. The unions give scads of money to dimocrat politicians. Those clowns love that money flowing in. They've learned to depend on it like a bunch of welfare queens. Thus there's plenty of incentive for them to keep the union stooges well paid.

Even though Dems get the lion's share of money and endorsements that's not always the case. I have seen Republicans get money and endorsements too.

As for unions giving scads of money to politicians I would counter that....

1) Individuals can do whatever they want with the money they earn and everyone can butt out of it, and

2) If a member does not agree with the contributions made by his or her union they can "opt out" of paying that part of their dues. That's FEDERAL LAW.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

In black and white.

Then why is the left against Citizens United v. FEC?
From your reasoning the Supreme Court ruled correctly.

Money isn't speech.

Nor is collective bargaining. Your First Amendment claim does not apply.

 

[Wiseacre]

Public union CB rights is crony capitalism, for all the liberal left screaming about this they are strangely silent when their side does it. I do not see how anyone can provide a reasonable argument, haven't seen one yet.

I'm fine with any union, public or private, making campaign donations. That is the right of every citizen and organization as spelled out in Citizen vs United. The question is whethe elected officials who are the beneficiaries of those donations should also be the same people who decide future public union contracts. That's BS, and should be illegal. There's no reason why compensation and benefits in particular should not be tied to what similar private sector employees get.

 

[Conservative]

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In black and white.

Which of these is 'collective bargaining'?

A religion?
Free speech?
Free press?
Peaceable assembly?
A petition to the government for a redress of grievance?

It doesn't appear to fit any of those.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Look at all the good unions have done for the US auto industry and for Detroit and its suburbs!

 

[Vaard]

Public union CB rights is crony capitalism, for all the liberal left screaming about this they are strangely silent when their side does it. I do not see how anyone can provide a reasonable argument, haven't seen one yet.

I'm fine with any union, public or private, making campaign donations. That is the right of every citizen and organization as spelled out in Citizen vs United. The question is whethe elected officials who are the beneficiaries of those donations should also be the same people who decide future public union contracts. That's BS, and should be illegal. There's no reason why compensation and benefits in particular should not be tied to what similar private sector employees get.

well, public unions relation with govenrment it might be croynism, but not crony capitalism.......

crony capitalism involves relationships beteen private business and the governemtn giving them special favors over other businesses........

 

[Wiseacre]

Public union CB rights is crony capitalism, for all the liberal left screaming about this they are strangely silent when their side does it. I do not see how anyone can provide a reasonable argument, haven't seen one yet.

I'm fine with any union, public or private, making campaign donations. That is the right of every citizen and organization as spelled out in Citizen vs United. The question is whethe elected officials who are the beneficiaries of those donations should also be the same people who decide future public union contracts. That's BS, and should be illegal. There's no reason why compensation and benefits in particular should not be tied to what similar private sector employees get.

well, public unions relation with govenrment it might be croynism, but not crony capitalism.......

crony capitalism involves relationships beteen private business and the governemtn giving them special favors over other businesses........

You might be right technically. Maybe there's a better name for it, but you're kinda splitting hairs IMHO. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ....
it's a fuckin' duck.

 

[Vaard]

Public union CB rights is crony capitalism, for all the liberal left screaming about this they are strangely silent when their side does it. I do not see how anyone can provide a reasonable argument, haven't seen one yet.

I'm fine with any union, public or private, making campaign donations. That is the right of every citizen and organization as spelled out in Citizen vs United. The question is whethe elected officials who are the beneficiaries of those donations should also be the same people who decide future public union contracts. That's BS, and should be illegal. There's no reason why compensation and benefits in particular should not be tied to what similar private sector employees get.

well, public unions relation with govenrment it might be croynism, but not crony capitalism.......

crony capitalism involves relationships beteen private business and the governemtn giving them special favors over other businesses........

You might be right technically. Maybe there's a better name for it, but you're kinda splitting hairs IMHO. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ....
it's a fuckin' duck.

just plain old cronyism works........

not really splitting hairs since crony capitalism is far worse since it is far more harmful to the public and economy........

 

[Wiseacre]

well, public unions relation with govenrment it might be croynism, but not crony capitalism.......

crony capitalism involves relationships beteen private business and the governemtn giving them special favors over other businesses........

You might be right technically. Maybe there's a better name for it, but you're kinda splitting hairs IMHO. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ....
it's a fuckin' duck.

just plain old cronyism works........

not really splitting hairs since crony capitalism is far worse since it is far more harmful to the public and economy........

Far worse? Sure about that? Now I'm the one spliting hairs. But I'm thinking our education system and the state budgets for most states would not be in the terrible shape they're in if it wasn't for cronyism, union style.

 

[Vaard]

You might be right technically. Maybe there's a better name for it, but you're kinda splitting hairs IMHO. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ....
it's a fuckin' duck.

just plain old cronyism works........

not really splitting hairs since crony capitalism is far worse since it is far more harmful to the public and economy........

Far worse? Sure about that? Now I'm the one spliting hairs. But I'm thinking our education system and the state budgets for most states would not be in the terrible shape they're in if it wasn't for cronyism, union style.

you could be right... lets just agree they are both pretty bad......

the problem is there is no real way to stop it, just punish those who get caught........