Prove it (or at least provide some evidence)!

[Dragon]

you know nothing as it pertains to production on demand and production for inventory.

I know that both are responses to consumer demand. I also know that "production on demand" and production that is driven by demand are not synonyms. Production for inventory is not production ON demand, but it is production DRIVEN BY demand. Don't confuse the two.

On the heels of a recession, there is very little production on demand. It is all about selling from inventory.

Consumer demand following a recession does not create jobs. It helps deplete surplus inventory that accumulated at the onset of the recession.

Right, but that's another way of saying that jobs aren't created immediately after a recession because it's insufficient to do so, or was insufficient to sell the inventory during the recession. Had consumer demand been higher earlier, there wouldn't be stockpiled inventory to sell.

Hiring ONLY takes place when there is a noticeable LONG TERM increase in demand for product...and that is based on forecasting.....a good reason why a 2 month extension of the tax holiday is useless...and a one year is less useless...but still not sufficient.

I agree with all of this, but we're still in the space where consumer demand creates jobs. What we really need is to systematically raise wages across the board, and adopt government policies that will shape the labor market so that happens (instead of in the opposite direction the way we've been doing for the past 30 years). I agree about the payroll tax holiday -- pissant stuff that won't accomplish much.

 

[Dragon]

Wry Catcher I answered your # 2 question.
Do you have any proof that a poor person creates jobs?

It's more the middle class that creates jobs than the poor. It's also more the middle class than the rich.

Don't confuse the person whose signature is on your paycheck with the one who created the job you're doing. The employer is just the middleman. It's consumer demand that creates jobs.

Where's the consumer demand for government jobs?

I was talking about the private sector, of course. Government jobs are also created by demand, but the dynamic works differently and it's all about constituent demand rather than consumer demand.

And since we have a corrupt plutocracy not a democracy, government jobs actually ARE created by the rich. Shouldn't be that way, but it is.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And still no proof or evidence that:

1. Repealing the Bush Tax cuts and making Billionaires and Millionaires pay more in tax will kill jobs.

It may curb investment which will decrease capital available to invest in new ideas. Where do you think rich people keep their money, under a mattress? They put it in the market for other people to use.



ibid.


Only the private sector creates jobs that create wealth and provide a tax base for the government.

4. Shrinking government will jump start our economy (explain how adding thousands to the unemployment roles will benefit commerce, small business and the real estate market).

Shrink government employees and then contract those services through the private sector. Voila people can still work and the government will have more money and we can all pay less in taxes.

Nice opinion piece, fact no facts, evidence or proof that anything you opine is true.

1. How do you know where Millionaires and Billionaires keep their 'loose' change?

2. Ibid? LOL.

3. Government workers pay taxes and invest too.

4. How can a for profit be less costly? Only by cutting salary and benefits which IMHO is the goal of the plutocrats, not supporters of our unique form of democracy.

The taxes taken out of government workers paychecks do NOT add to the total tax base of the government because the taxes taken out of government employees pay is the same money taken from the public sector.

You can't count dollars twice.

The money that you say government employees invest is money that is taken from people in the private sector first so the private sector is denied the chance to invest or spend that money.

You can't count dollars twice.

 

[hortysir]

It's more the middle class that creates jobs than the poor. It's also more the middle class than the rich.

Don't confuse the person whose signature is on your paycheck with the one who created the job you're doing. The employer is just the middleman. It's consumer demand that creates jobs.

Where's the consumer demand for government jobs?

I was talking about the private sector, of course. Government jobs are also created by demand, but the dynamic works differently and it's all about constituent demand rather than consumer demand.

And since we have a corrupt plutocracy not a democracy, government jobs actually ARE created by the rich. Shouldn't be that way, but it is.

Only in the sense that our government officials ARE the rich.
They create jobs to suit their wishes over the demands of their constituency. To fulfill their own hunger for power - or money that passes for power these days.

I find it a damned shame that there are those that create the demand for bigger and more intrusive government.

 

[Thom218]

Daveman,

I like what your signature says ... especially the "Impress me ... DO something !! "
It seems to me that all of this has been "mentally masturbated" for a long time.
But yet No one has an answer .... We are in a state that has seen little or no Job
growth and has operated in a deficit for the last 4 years or longer and still the same
people get elected.

We are in a Country that has been on the decline for the last 10 years but yet everyone
wants to blame the other guy instead of doing something about it. The continued "Gaming"
that happens in Washington between the 2 parties is just maddening to me. No one is there
for us !!! They are there just trying to make someone else ( democrat or republican) look
bad. IF all I did at my job was to come up with reasons why someone else wasn't doing
their job right I would lose my job.... and IF the company I worked for allowed me to do
nothing but that .. well then the company would go under .. because we wouldn't be DOING
ANYTHING !!!

Someone help me understand ! No doubt Something Has to be Done but who is willing
to do it for US !! the American People and Not just to further their political well being.
Tell me who the common guy like myself is that is their fighting for me.... the middle class
that has work ethic, pays his bills, and takes the financial hits but keeps plugging away
while the "elected" officials in Washington keep gaming it up at our expense.

Thom ...

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

1. Repealing the Bush Tax cuts and making Billionaires and Millionaires pay more in tax will kill jobs.

2, Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)

3. Only the private sector creates jobs.

4. Shrinking government will jump start our economy (explain how adding thousands to the unemployment roles will benefit commerce, small business and the real estate market).

5. Gay & Lesbian Marriage threatens traditional marriage.

6. Citizens United v. FEC is good for America.

1) Its not just millionaires and billionaires who will pay more taxes, its EVERY INCOME BRACKET which includes small buisnesses like the one I work for that take in 6 figures a year. Make it cost more for my boss and he wont open that new shop in hyannis next year creating 3 jobs.

2) Bill Gates, Steve Jobs. How many people work for the companies those 2 started? Do you need more examples LOL

3) Let me correct your statement "only the private sector creates jobs that aren't paid for with taxes"

4) Shrinking the govt will shrink the debt. The interest on the debt is draining the wealth out of our nation to the foriegn nations that hold our debt. By cutting govt to create a surplus to pay down the debt we will stop bleeding wealth as a nation, making everyone richer in the LONG RUN. However neither cutting nor expanding govt will "jump start" the economy...the latter was proven by the stimulus.

5) It does? I didn't know that

6) Because it allows the unions to be protected by the first ammendment too even though it goes against mccain-feingold? Or are you upset that it also allows corporations and not just unions to have this voice? Without it unions could not run political ads...just so you know....which is fine with me .

Just hoping for an exchange

 

[Bern80]

I agree with all of this, but we're still in the space where consumer demand creates jobs. What we really need is to systematically raise wages across the board, and adopt government policies that will shape the labor market so that happens (instead of in the opposite direction the way we've been doing for the past 30 years). I agree about the payroll tax holiday -- pissant stuff that won't accomplish much.

It isn't governments responsibility to make sure people have enough money to exercise their demands. You can't systematically raise wages. Labor is worth what it's worth based on the free market. The most government can do is keep their hands as much as possible out of people's pockets. That way the still have the extra disposable income you want them to have without government artificially inflating the price of labor. I really don't understand why you libs think income increases happen in a vacuum and the market doesn't react to it at all. You believe if everyone's income goes up, the price of goods and services won't go up right along with it. I swear the libs on this board need to go back to high school and take an introductory econ class.

 

[Wry Catcher]

1. Repealing the Bush Tax cuts and making Billionaires and Millionaires pay more in tax will kill jobs.

2, Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)

3. Only the private sector creates jobs.

4. Shrinking government will jump start our economy (explain how adding thousands to the unemployment roles will benefit commerce, small business and the real estate market).

5. Gay & Lesbian Marriage threatens traditional marriage.

6. Citizens United v. FEC is good for America.

1) Its not just millionaires and billionaires who will pay more taxes, its EVERY INCOME BRACKET which includes small buisnesses like the one I work for that take in 6 figures a year. Make it cost more for my boss and he wont open that new shop in hyannis next year creating 3 jobs.

Targeted tax cuts are included in Obama's discussion, and small business is an area where he supports tax credits for hiring new employees. I also simply asked for evidence that raising the personal income tax of the 1% will curtail job creation. None has been offered.

2) Bill Gates, Steve Jobs. How many people work for the companies those 2 started? Do you need more examples LOL

Gates and Jobs, H & P, and dozens of other companies started in the garage of their parents home.

3) Let me correct your statement "only the private sector creates jobs that aren't paid for with taxes"

Really, gov't subsidy and contracts play a huge role in the success of many private companies. See any copy of "World Facts" on how much, for an obscene example, defense contractors get of our money.

4) Shrinking the govt will shrink the debt. The interest on the debt is draining the wealth out of our nation to the foriegn nations that hold our debt. By cutting govt to create a surplus to pay down the debt we will stop bleeding wealth as a nation, making everyone richer in the LONG RUN. However neither cutting nor expanding govt will "jump start" the economy...the latter was proven by the stimulus.

I'm not opposed to shrinking the federal government; I'm simply opposed to doing so in an ideological manner and eschewing the pragmatic. Reduce the size of government by attrition, not by mass firings. Yes, the debt is obscene and we spend way too much of tax payer dollars to service the debt. Have you watched the news today to see how many millions of our tax dollars were approved by the House under Boehner (we even gave aid to China)?

The evidence suggests the stimulus had limited success, suggesting otherwise isn't accurate. It was too small and done in the heat of the crisis Obama inherited, had there been time for a full vetting I suspect we would be out of the woods today.

5) It does? I didn't know that

The far right believes it does, never heard of the DOMA?

6) Because it allows the unions to be protected by the first ammendment too even though it goes against mccain-feingold? Or are you upset that it also allows corporations and not just unions to have this voice? Without it unions could not run political ads...just so you know....which is fine with me .

CU v. FEC has allowed for the creation of the Super PAC's. Do a little research on who these people who fund them are and you'll see the problem (because you'll never know, the source might be Hugo Chavez or a Saudi Prince).

Just hoping for an exchange

I hope this is what you hope for, an exchange of opinions.

 

[bripat9643]

Wry Catcher I answered your # 2 question.
Do you have any proof that a poor person creates jobs?

It's more the middle class that creates jobs than the poor. It's also more the middle class than the rich.

Don't confuse the person whose signature is on your paycheck with the one who created the job you're doing. The employer is just the middleman. It's consumer demand that creates jobs.

It is however ultimately the decision of upper management in terms of how to meet that demand and whether or not to create a new position in order to fill it. Meeting demand does not always necessitate hiring.

Demand exists only because other productive enterprises are generating income and paying wages. Say's law says production generates it's own demand. In other words, each enterprise produces sufficient revenue to purchase the products it makes. In aggregate, all productive enterprises produce the revenue which then becomes demand for the sum of production in an economy. All government spending does is siphon off a percentage of this production for the benefit of useless parasites who produce nothing.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Wry Catcher I answered your # 2 question.
Do you have any proof that a poor person creates jobs?

I missed your answer to #2; I'll seek it out and respond shortly.

Do the poor create jobs? Interesting question, we know of course that many jobs exist to aid the poor, most of which are local government and state jobs, but I suspect that is not what you mean.

I'd guess no, poor people do not create jobs, in general. However, Gates, Jobs, Hewlett and Packard began their companies in the garage of their parents. Poor they were not, but at the time they created their companies they were not millionaires or billionaires.

Tax policy should support such enterprise; I'm still not convinced the 1% create jobs and no one has yet provided any evidence that they do CREATE JOBS. Where do the 1% keep their loose change?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Wry Catcher I answered your # 2 question.
Do you have any proof that a poor person creates jobs?

I missed your answer to #2; I'll seek it out and respond shortly.

Do the poor create jobs? Interesting question, we know of course that many jobs exist to aid the poor, most of which are local government and state jobs, but I suspect that is not what you mean.

I'd guess no, poor people do not create jobs, in general. However, Gates, Jobs, Hewlett and Packard began their companies in the garage of their parents. Poor they were not, but at the time they created their companies they were not millionaires or billionaires.

Where did they get the start up capital needed put their ideas into large scale production?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Wry Catcher I answered your # 2 question.
Do you have any proof that a poor person creates jobs?

I missed your answer to #2; I'll seek it out and respond shortly.

Do the poor create jobs? Interesting question, we know of course that many jobs exist to aid the poor, most of which are local government and state jobs, but I suspect that is not what you mean.

I'd guess no, poor people do not create jobs, in general. However, Gates, Jobs, Hewlett and Packard began their companies in the garage of their parents. Poor they were not, but at the time they created their companies they were not millionaires or billionaires.

Tax policy should support such enterprise; I'm still not convinced the 1% create jobs and no one has yet provided any evidence that they do CREATE JOBS. Where do the 1% keep their loose change?

Sorry i didn't pop in another response before but i got some work to do finally

Check out this video, i think its spot on and I think you and most will like it (your 1% comments inspired the posting)


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1IL6r_Sizs]Andrew Klavan: Wall Street On Trial - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Wry Catcher]

If you have been following news about the Koch brothers, you might be curious as to which products they manufacture.

Lots! List of koch brothers products

Angel soft,Brawny,Dixie,MardiGras,Quilted Northern, Soft & Gental,Sparkle,VanityFair,Zee


Georgia-Pacific also distributes paper towels, napkins and soap dispensing systems used in commercial settings. Some GP commercial toilet paper brands: Envision, Coronet®, SCA, Tork and Fort James. GP produces Pacific Garden liquid soaps...



koch brothers products



Georgia-Pacific produces ink and office paper under the GP label and the Spectrum® family of office paper products.




Wood Products:


Georgia-Pacific is the largest manufacturer of plywood in the U.S..

Including Plytanium Plywood®, DryPly® plywood, Ply-Bead®.

Georgia-Pacific is one of the country's largest suppliers of corrugated boxes and containers.

Various, numerous wood products, dimensional lumber and building materials.

ToughRock®, Fireguard®, DensArmor and DensShield® gypsum board.




Textiles and Plastics
via Invista Products:



* Stainmaster
* Dacron
* Lycra
* CoolMax
* SolarMax
* Polarguard
* Thermolite
* Antron
Comforel fiberfill
* DBE® dibasic esters
Tactel
Tactesse Carpet Fibers
* Terathane
* ADI-Pure®
* Polyshield®
* Polyclear®
* Oxyclear™
* Performa®
Cordura fabric
Supplex® Fabric
Somerelle® Bedding

Apple also has thousands of employess
Apple designs and creates iPod and iTunes, Mac laptop and desktop computers, the OS X operating system, and the revolutionary iPhone and iPad.

Microsoft also has thousands of employees

And these;
Fat paychecks, sweet perks, fun colleagues, and over 150,000 jobs ready to be filled -- these employers offer dream workplaces.

1. SAS
2. Boston Consulting Group
3. Wegmans Food Markets
4. Google
5. NetApp
6. Zappos.com
7. Camden Property Trust
8. Nugget Market
9. REI
10. Dreamworks

Everyone of these companies are owned by millionaires and billionaires

See my comment above re Gates, Hewlett, Packard, etc. and their origins.

The Koch Bros have taken inherited wealth and invested in American companies. Do they employ many Americans? Yep.

If their personal income tax were to rise to 39.5% would they lay-off their employees or need to cut back on their life style? How much are they giving to Super PACS in an effort to expand their wealth and reduce their overhead by electiing anti regulation Republicans (you won't know, nor do I because of CU v. FEC the most wrong-headed USSC decision since Dred Scott) and anti-union Republicans and anti-government Republicans?

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you have been following news about the Koch brothers, you might be curious as to which products they manufacture.

Lots! List of koch brothers products

Angel soft,Brawny,Dixie,MardiGras,Quilted Northern, Soft & Gental,Sparkle,VanityFair,Zee


Georgia-Pacific also distributes paper towels, napkins and soap dispensing systems used in commercial settings. Some GP commercial toilet paper brands: Envision, Coronet®, SCA, Tork and Fort James. GP produces Pacific Garden liquid soaps...



koch brothers products



Georgia-Pacific produces ink and office paper under the GP label and the Spectrum® family of office paper products.




Wood Products:


Georgia-Pacific is the largest manufacturer of plywood in the U.S..

Including Plytanium Plywood®, DryPly® plywood, Ply-Bead®.

Georgia-Pacific is one of the country's largest suppliers of corrugated boxes and containers.

Various, numerous wood products, dimensional lumber and building materials.

ToughRock®, Fireguard®, DensArmor and DensShield® gypsum board.




Textiles and Plastics
via Invista Products:



* Stainmaster
* Dacron
* Lycra
* CoolMax
* SolarMax
* Polarguard
* Thermolite
* Antron
Comforel fiberfill
* DBE® dibasic esters
Tactel
Tactesse Carpet Fibers
* Terathane
* ADI-Pure®
* Polyshield®
* Polyclear®
* Oxyclear™
* Performa®
Cordura fabric
Supplex® Fabric
Somerelle® Bedding

Apple also has thousands of employess
Apple designs and creates iPod and iTunes, Mac laptop and desktop computers, the OS X operating system, and the revolutionary iPhone and iPad.

Microsoft also has thousands of employees

And these;
Fat paychecks, sweet perks, fun colleagues, and over 150,000 jobs ready to be filled -- these employers offer dream workplaces.

1. SAS
2. Boston Consulting Group
3. Wegmans Food Markets
4. Google
5. NetApp
6. Zappos.com
7. Camden Property Trust
8. Nugget Market
9. REI
10. Dreamworks

Everyone of these companies are owned by millionaires and billionaires

See my comment above re Gates, Hewlett, Packard, etc. and their origins.

Answer my question as to where they got the start up capital to produce their designs on a large scale.

 

[peach174]

If you have been following news about the Koch brothers, you might be curious as to which products they manufacture.

Lots! List of koch brothers products

Angel soft,Brawny,Dixie,MardiGras,Quilted Northern, Soft & Gental,Sparkle,VanityFair,Zee


Georgia-Pacific also distributes paper towels, napkins and soap dispensing systems used in commercial settings. Some GP commercial toilet paper brands: Envision, Coronet®, SCA, Tork and Fort James. GP produces Pacific Garden liquid soaps...



koch brothers products



Georgia-Pacific produces ink and office paper under the GP label and the Spectrum® family of office paper products.




Wood Products:


Georgia-Pacific is the largest manufacturer of plywood in the U.S..

Including Plytanium Plywood®, DryPly® plywood, Ply-Bead®.

Georgia-Pacific is one of the country's largest suppliers of corrugated boxes and containers.

Various, numerous wood products, dimensional lumber and building materials.

ToughRock®, Fireguard®, DensArmor and DensShield® gypsum board.




Textiles and Plastics
via Invista Products:



* Stainmaster
* Dacron
* Lycra
* CoolMax
* SolarMax
* Polarguard
* Thermolite
* Antron
Comforel fiberfill
* DBE® dibasic esters
Tactel
Tactesse Carpet Fibers
* Terathane
* ADI-Pure®
* Polyshield®
* Polyclear®
* Oxyclear™
* Performa®
Cordura fabric
Supplex® Fabric
Somerelle® Bedding

Apple also has thousands of employess
Apple designs and creates iPod and iTunes, Mac laptop and desktop computers, the OS X operating system, and the revolutionary iPhone and iPad.

Microsoft also has thousands of employees

And these;
Fat paychecks, sweet perks, fun colleagues, and over 150,000 jobs ready to be filled -- these employers offer dream workplaces.

1. SAS
2. Boston Consulting Group
3. Wegmans Food Markets
4. Google
5. NetApp
6. Zappos.com
7. Camden Property Trust
8. Nugget Market
9. REI
10. Dreamworks

Everyone of these companies are owned by millionaires and billionaires

See my comment above re Gates, Hewlett, Packard, etc. and their origins.

The Koch Bros have taken inherited wealth and invested in American companies. Do they employ many Americans? Yep.

If their personal income tax were to rise to 39.5% would they lay-off their employees or need to cut back on their life style? How much are they giving to Super PACS in an effort to expand their wealth and reduce their overhead by electiing anti regulation Republicans (you won't know, nor do I because of CU v. FEC the most wrong-headed USSC decision since Dred Scott) and anti-union Republicans and anti-government Republicans?

the rich pay 50% in taxes. 35% in income and 15% in investments.
The ones who paid 0 was because of loopholes and lobbying favors. It need to be fixed so that they can't do this.

Repubs are not anti union or anti Government. That's Dem's political propaganda. (by the way both parties do it)
Reforming unions pensions that are unsustainable and having them pay part of their health care is not anti union.
Wanting smaller and more manageable Government is not anti Government.
And it's not just repubs who want this. It's Conservative Dems and independents who want it also.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

1. Repealing the Bush Tax cuts and making Billionaires and Millionaires pay more in tax will kill jobs.
1) Its not just millionaires and billionaires who will pay more taxes, its EVERY INCOME BRACKET which includes small buisnesses like the one I work for that take in 6 figures a year. Make it cost more for my boss and he wont open that new shop in hyannis next year creating 3 jobs.

Targeted tax cuts are included in Obama's discussion, and small business is an area where he supports tax credits for hiring new employees. I also simply asked for evidence that raising the personal income tax of the 1% will curtail job creation. None has been offered.

They are not included in any of the democrat proposals thus far...unless I am unaware of one that does this and if I am please link me to their proposal's text.


----------------------------------------------------------


2, Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)
2) Bill Gates, Steve Jobs. How many people work for the companies those 2 started? Do you need more examples LOL

Gates and Jobs, H & P, and dozens of other companies started in the garage of their parents home.

Yup they did and those Billionaires created thousands of jobs and millions in wealth in the process of becoming billionaires.....those 2 people alone destroy the premise of your 2nd question.


----------------------------------------------------------------


3. Only the private sector creates jobs.

3) Let me correct your statement "only the private sector creates jobs that aren't paid for with taxes"

Really, gov't subsidy and contracts play a huge role in the success of many private companies. See any copy of "World Facts" on how much, for an obscene example, defense contractors get of our money.

Yes that is true however you are tossing a red herring at me. All government jobs are funded by taxpayer money while its only in the private sector where we have jobs that aren't paid for with taxmoney.


-----------------------------------------------------------


4. Shrinking government will jump start our economy (explain how adding thousands to the unemployment roles will benefit commerce, small business and the real estate market).

4) Shrinking the govt will shrink the debt. The interest on the debt is draining the wealth out of our nation to the foriegn nations that hold our debt. By cutting govt to create a surplus to pay down the debt we will stop bleeding wealth as a nation, making everyone richer in the LONG RUN. However neither cutting nor expanding govt will "jump start" the economy...the latter was proven by the stimulus.

I'm not opposed to shrinking the federal government; I'm simply opposed to doing so in an ideological manner and eschewing the pragmatic. Reduce the size of government by attrition, not by mass firings. Yes, the debt is obscene and we spend way too much of tax payer dollars to service the debt. Have you watched the news today to see how many millions of our tax dollars were approved by the House under Boehner (we even gave aid to China)?

The evidence suggests the stimulus had limited success, suggesting otherwise isn't accurate. It was too small and done in the heat of the crisis Obama inherited, had there been time for a full vetting I suspect we would be out of the woods today.

I suspect if we let big corporations fail instead of giving them coroporate welfare we would have unemployment back under 5% and obama would have much better approval numbers. The evidence suggests the stimulus failed hence the unemployment not coming down during the time it was spent...now that its gone all of a sudden the economy is starting to work itself out.


----------------------------------------------------


5. Gay & Lesbian Marriage threatens traditional marriage.

5) It does? I didn't know that

The far right believes it does, never heard of the DOMA?

I've heard of DOMA but I don't think gay and lesbian marriage threatens traditional marriage.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------


6. Citizens United v. FEC is good for America.

6) Because it allows the unions to be protected by the first ammendment too even though it goes against mccain-feingold? Or are you upset that it also allows corporations and not just unions to have this voice? Without it unions could not run political ads...just so you know....which is fine with me .[/QUOTE]

CU v. FEC has allowed for the creation of the Super PAC's. Do a little research on who these people who fund them are and you'll see the problem (because you'll never know, the source might be Hugo Chavez or a Saudi Prince).

Yes they have allowed for that and I don't like those however without the law groups such as unions and community groups would not be allowed to have any voice (ads) either.

I say get rid of all of them but thats another topic.

 

[daveman]

Daveman,

I like what your signature says ... especially the "Impress me ... DO something !! "
It seems to me that all of this has been "mentally masturbated" for a long time.
But yet No one has an answer .... We are in a state that has seen little or no Job
growth and has operated in a deficit for the last 4 years or longer and still the same
people get elected.

We are in a Country that has been on the decline for the last 10 years but yet everyone
wants to blame the other guy instead of doing something about it. The continued "Gaming"
that happens in Washington between the 2 parties is just maddening to me. No one is there
for us !!! They are there just trying to make someone else ( democrat or republican) look
bad. IF all I did at my job was to come up with reasons why someone else wasn't doing
their job right I would lose my job.... and IF the company I worked for allowed me to do
nothing but that .. well then the company would go under .. because we wouldn't be DOING
ANYTHING !!!

Someone help me understand ! No doubt Something Has to be Done but who is willing
to do it for US !! the American People and Not just to further their political well being.
Tell me who the common guy like myself is that is their fighting for me.... the middle class
that has work ethic, pays his bills, and takes the financial hits but keeps plugging away
while the "elected" officials in Washington keep gaming it up at our expense.

Thom ...

Thanks, Thom. I've said for years that the people who want the job are the very ones who can't be trusted with it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

If you have been following news about the Koch brothers, you might be curious as to which products they manufacture.

Lots! List of koch brothers products

Angel soft,Brawny,Dixie,MardiGras,Quilted Northern, Soft & Gental,Sparkle,VanityFair,Zee


Georgia-Pacific also distributes paper towels, napkins and soap dispensing systems used in commercial settings. Some GP commercial toilet paper brands: Envision, Coronet®, SCA, Tork and Fort James. GP produces Pacific Garden liquid soaps...



koch brothers products



Georgia-Pacific produces ink and office paper under the GP label and the Spectrum® family of office paper products.




Wood Products:


Georgia-Pacific is the largest manufacturer of plywood in the U.S..

Including Plytanium Plywood®, DryPly® plywood, Ply-Bead®.

Georgia-Pacific is one of the country's largest suppliers of corrugated boxes and containers.

Various, numerous wood products, dimensional lumber and building materials.

ToughRock®, Fireguard®, DensArmor and DensShield® gypsum board.




Textiles and Plastics
via Invista Products:



* Stainmaster
* Dacron
* Lycra
* CoolMax
* SolarMax
* Polarguard
* Thermolite
* Antron
Comforel fiberfill
* DBE® dibasic esters
Tactel
Tactesse Carpet Fibers
* Terathane
* ADI-Pure®
* Polyshield®
* Polyclear®
* Oxyclear™
* Performa®
Cordura fabric
Supplex® Fabric
Somerelle® Bedding

Apple also has thousands of employess
Apple designs and creates iPod and iTunes, Mac laptop and desktop computers, the OS X operating system, and the revolutionary iPhone and iPad.

Microsoft also has thousands of employees

And these;
Fat paychecks, sweet perks, fun colleagues, and over 150,000 jobs ready to be filled -- these employers offer dream workplaces.

1. SAS
2. Boston Consulting Group
3. Wegmans Food Markets
4. Google
5. NetApp
6. Zappos.com
7. Camden Property Trust
8. Nugget Market
9. REI
10. Dreamworks

Everyone of these companies are owned by millionaires and billionaires

See my comment above re Gates, Hewlett, Packard, etc. and their origins.

Answer my question as to where they got the start up capital to produce their designs on a large scale.

Don't know, let me know.

 

[Dragon]

Demand exists only because other productive enterprises are generating income and paying wages.

Correct, and it exists in proportion to HOW HIGH those wages are.

Say's law says production generates it's own demand.

Say's law is garbage. It depends on infinite price elasticity, which is not a fact. Say's law would predict that a general demand-based recession is impossible, thus the existence of general demand-based recessions in history proves that it is false.

 

[InDoctriNation]

the rich pay 50% in taxes. 35% in income and 15% in investments.

This is one of the worst math fails I've ever seen.