Proof in writing that this country was not founded on any religion.

[martybegan]

Why did it take about twenty five years for freedom of religion under the First
Amendnent to take hold in Massachusetts?

Digital History

www.digitalhistory.uh.edu

smtID=3&psid=252#:~:text=In%201833%2C%20Massachusetts%20became%20the%20last,state%20to%20end%20state%20support%20for%20churches.


Document: Laws of Massachusetts, "An Act respecting Public Worship and Religious Freedom"

...Any person may separate from one Parish or Religious Society and join another, either of the same or of a different denomination, by filing with the Clerk of the Society...a certificate of the fact....

No citizen of this Commonwealth, being a member of any Religious Society in the Commonwealth, shall be assessed or liable to pay any tax for the support of Public Worship, or other Parochial charges, to any Parish, Precinct, or Religious Society whatever, other than to that of which he is a member. Source: Gilder Lehrman Institute

Additional information: Columbian Centinel, April 28, 1824

because they were the descendants of Puritans who didn't trust the Catholic Church or the Church of England?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Because they were the descendants of Puritans who didn't trust the Catholic Church or the Church of England?

But why did they hang on to forcing every citizen of Massachusetts to pay taxes for the support of Public Worship, or other Parochial charges, to the state church of Massachusetts for over twenty years after the ratification of the US Constitution?

 

[martybegan]

But why did they hang on to forcing every citizen of Massachusetts to pay taxes for the support of Public Worship, or other Parochial charges, to the state church of Massachusetts for over twenty years after the ratification of the US Constitution?

Because they could?

Because many of the people who came over here supported one given Church, and wanted an Established Religion in their State?

What they didn't want was a national established Religion.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

What they didn't want was a national established Religion.

So they did not agree with freedom of religion? The first amendment was meaningless on a state level.

 

[martybegan]

So they did not agree with freedom of religion? The first amendment was meaningless on a state level.

It was until the 14th amendment incorporated it.

Again, they didn't want the federal government establishing a religion, which is why the first amendment talks about congress, not the individual States.

 

[Foxfyre]

There never has been a ban on any American citizen or visitor who believe’s that Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament was.is God/the Son of God, and that he died for all the sins of humankind , and who rose from the grave to assure humankind the privilege of eteral life.

That belief has never been ban Ned in the United States of America since day one.

No prayer or discussion of intelligent design in school. Towns and states are required to take Christian symbols off official seals. No historic old creches on the courthouse lawn at Christmas time. Etc. The Founders would have been horrified at that. But you have so missed the context and content of my posts I doubt you are capable of understanding the point at all. But do have a great day.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Again, they didn't want the federal government establishing a religion, which is why the first amendment talks about congress, not the individual States.

They had the Feds not establishing a national religion from day one. So that does not explain why the state of Massachusetts continued to tax non-Christians and Christians of other denominations to support a state religion.

 

[martybegan]

They had the Feds not establishing a national religion from day one. So that does not explain why the state of Massachusetts continued to tax non-Christians and Christians of other denominations to support a state religion.

Because they wanted to, and the Constitution allowed them to.

 

[BackAgain]

All the conservative types are always talking about a christian nation

False ^ premise. Not a good way to start any thread or discussion.

and christian values, well it turns out that this isn't and never was a christian nation, at least according to the authors of the Tripoli treaty.

Zzz

Name our nation’s state religion.

Oh. That’s right. You can’t. And no conservative maintains that we have ever had one.

It states very clearly that the nation is not in any was founded on the christian religion in the words of John Adams himself.

That language isn’t binding. But it’s also not particularly disputed.

Prior to our Founding, the folks who chose to come here did seek to avoid religious persecution. Most of them were Christians. But as you’ve already been advised, nobody but dolts imagine that “Christian” is a unitary concept.

 

[$ecular#eckler]

Conservatives will of course ignore the truth and continue to lie about the Unites States being a ‘Christian’ nation.

Do you want the truth?

The Three-part Separation Theory is inaccurate. The absolute truth is that a three-branch government only prevents any one person from
ascending to a dictatorship. The inconvenient truth is that neither the separation nor the checks and balances prevent oligarchy or corruption. Oligarchy is the authoritarian form of government that political science scholars cannot publicly explain because the American three-branch government is a coarsely controlled compound oligarchy. In its basic form, an oligarchy is a conspired leader of a crony corporate board and management team instead of the dictator's box of rocks military to enforce civil law.

The simple Three-part Separation Theory does not deter the political contest to populate the three branches with ideologically aligned personnel, which is the inevitable evolution to oligarchy declared a hundred years ago as The Iron Law of Oligarchy. The executive branch, especially in its expanded state of security departments, is the ultimate goal of an oligarchy. The American executive branch provides random access and adjustable enforcement of regulatory laws and executive orders to coordinate the power to appease the oligarchy's constituency, most notably, the partisan donor class and the useful idiots.

The reason this happens is that the Three-part Separation Theory does not have a formula for balancing the government's powers, and some of the simple controls that the Founders did deploy have since been deactivated by amendments and statutory laws that have furthered the problems in what is sometimes believed to be a self-correcting amendment system.

Although the American compound partisan oligarchy is better than a dictatorship, it is still not what we want, otherwise, our civics lessons would openly describe the inevitable approach to oligarchy, and the political pundits would not be fear-mongering descriptions of the presidential candidates as infamous dictators; which contradicts the reasoning for believing in the deployment of the three-branch government, and subsequently distorts the public’s sense of reality.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

No prayer or discussion of intelligent design in school. Towns and states are required to take Christian symbols off official seals. No historic old creches on the courthouse lawn at Christmas time.

How does that prevent or ban anyone who believes that Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament was.is God/the Son of God, he died for our sins, and he rose from the grave to assure us of eteral life from believing in that religion?

 

[Foxfyre]

How does that prevent or ban anyone who believes that Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament was.is God/the Son of God, he died for our sins, and he rose from the grave to assure us of eteral life from believing in that religion?

I don't believe you're that dumb Not so I have to assume you're just trolling now. Do have a pleasant day.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I don't believe you're that dumb Not so I have to assume you're just trolling now. Do have a pleasant day.

How does {No prayer or discussion of intelligent design in school. No historic old creches on the courthouse lawn at Christmas time. Or Towns and states being required to take Christian symbols off official seals.} prevent or ban anyone who believes that Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament was.is God/the Son of God, he died for our sins, and he rose from the grave to assure us of eteral life from believing in that religion?

Did it just dawn on you Saint Foxfyre how absurd the white Christian nationalist grievance against their perceived persecution/oppression by progressive adherence to the Establishment Cause in order to protect true religious freedom for all religions apart from Trump’s MAGA Christianity actually is?

 

[Foxfyre]

How does {No prayer or discussion of intelligent design in school. No historic old creches on the courthouse lawn at Christmas time. Or Towns and states being required to take Christian symbols off official seals.} prevent or ban anyone who believes that Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament was.is God/the Son of God, he died for our sins, and he rose from the grave to assure us of eteral life from believing in that religion?

Did it just dawn on you Saint Foxfyre how absurd the white Christian nationalist grievance against their perceived persecution/oppression by progressive adherence to the Establishment Cause in order to protect true religious freedom for all religions apart from Trump’s MAGA Christianity actually is?

When you take that remedial reading comprehension course maybe you will understndand that the thread isn't about white Christian nationalist grievance or any other 'white Christian nationalist' anything. Also at no time did the Founders promote, suggest, condone, or put anything into the Constitution OTHER than religious freedom and I have NEVER posted anything to suggest otherwise.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Proof in writing that this country was not founded on any religion. 240512. {post•2}. Oddball May’24 Spiwtt: There is no unitary "the Christian religion". vddbvll 240512 Spiwtt00002

NotfooledbyW May’24 Vpiwtt: There is what Saint Foxfyre claims to be the one unitary belief required of all who profess to be a Christian. See the following post. nfbw 240521 Vpiwtt00075


Proof in writing that this country was not founded on any religion. 240520. Million {post•49}. Foxfyre May’24 Spiwtt: “They believe that Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament was.is God/the Son of God, he died for our sins, and he rose from the grave to assure us of eteral life. “ fxfyr 240520 Spiwtt49

NotfooledbyW May’24 Vpiwtt: None of that has anything to do with the founding of America. nfbw 240521 Vpiwtt00075

nfbw 240521 Vpiwtt00075

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Proof in writing that this country was not founded on any religion. 240520. {post•49}. Foxfyre May’24 Spiwtt: “They believe that Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament was.is God/the Son of God, he died for our sins, and he rose from the grave to assure us of eteral life. “ fxfyr 240520 Spiwtt49



para a.ii Proof in writing that this country was not founded on any religion. 240520 {post•43}. Foxfyre May’24 Spiwtt: “It is true that the USA was not founded on the Christian religion. “ fxfyr 240520 Spiwtt43


para a.iii Proof in writing that this country was not founded on any religion. 240520 {post•43} Foxfyre May’24 Spiwtt: It is also true that the USA was founded by Christians on Christian principles and pretty much to a man fxfyr 240520 Spiwtt43


Proof in writing that this country was not founded on any religion. 240521 {post•76}

NotfooledbyW May’24 Vpiwtt: How do Christians found a nation on something called “Christian Principles” but not at the same time not be founding a nation on their “Christian Religion”.

And on top of trying to have it both ways in para a.ii and iii Saint Foxfyre you claim to know that our founding generation believed what you claimed in post fxfyr 240520 Spiwtt49 at the top.

What’s up with making up truths you cannot backup? nfbw 240521 Vpiwtt00076

nfbw 240521 Vpiwtt00076

 

[Captain Caveman]

All the conservative types are always talking about a christian nation and christian values, well it turns out that this isn't and never was a christian nation, at least according to the authors of the Tripoli treaty.

It states very clearly that the nation is not in any was founded on the christian religion in the words of John Adams himself.

You would think that this would remove all doubt, but as the short thread on the same subject that was so helpfully closed showed us, there are still plenty of folks who will argue the point.

Tell us, why do you think they would write this if it's not true?


View attachment 946109

Why is that important for you?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Why is that important for you?

Because it leads to this;

Embryos and Personhood 240401 {post•324}. Foxfyre Apr’24 Seapz: I believe the decision of whether abortion is NECESSARY should be left to the doctor and patient and the government should stay out of it period. fxfyr 240401 Seapyz00324

Even though Saint Foxfyre is intellectually opposed to forcing full term gestation on women he votes for Trump who is wholly in support of the white Christian nationalist Republican agenda to force full term gestation on all women by virtue of continuing to vote for the white Christian nationalist Republican choice for president after seeing the MAGA anti-democracy event Trump was responsible for causing on January 6 2020.

This the thread isn't about white Christian nationalist grievance or any other 'white Christian nationalist' anything

It is true that the USA was not founded on the Christian religion but that the Republican Party has been fiercely in opposition to that truth since Roe v Wade caused white evangelical Protestants to join the ultra-conservative Catholic Church baby fetus fanatics in a united agenda to wreck American democracy by labeling the working class multicultural Democratic Party to be evil wicked and sinful in Biblical not rational and not secularly legalistic and Constitutional terms.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Because it leads to this;

Embryos and Personhood 240401 {post•324}. Foxfyre Apr’24 Seapz: I believe the decision of whether abortion is NECESSARY should be left to the doctor and patient and the government should stay out of it period. fxfyr 240401 Seapyz00324

Even though Saint Foxfyre is intellectually opposed to forcing full term gestation on women he votes for Trump who is wholly in support of the white Christian nationalist Republican agenda to force full term gestation on all women by virtue of continuing to vote for the white Christian nationalist Republican choice for president after seeing the MAGA anti-democracy event Trump was responsible for causing on January 6 2020.




It is true that the USA was not founded on the Christian religion but that the Republican Party has been fiercely in opposition to that truth since Roe v Wade caused white evangelical Protestants to join the ultra-conservative Catholic Church baby fetus fanatics in a united agenda to wreck American democracy by labeling the working class multicultural Democratic Party to be evil wicked and sinful in Biblical not rational and not secularly legalistic and Constitutional terms.

Whether a nation is founded on a religion or not, the abortion issue is just down to a person's morals. Those with subhuman morals kill babies. If anyone thinks humans should do x, y, z because of their religion, political stance, colour of skin etc.. is absolutely clueless about humans, and life in general.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Those with subhuman morals kill babies.

Do you condemn the Jewish belief that God breathes human life into a newborn child as he or she emerges from the birth canal and takes a first breath for having the lack of morality in a sub human species.