Bull Ring ProgressivePatriot: Homosexual orientation can NEVER change but Religious belief is ALWAYS a choice?

[emilynghiem]

I have utmost respect for ProgressivePatriot who I believe challenges issues for the right reasons.

However I finally found a point where I can argue back with PP, and maybe get somewhere.

Currently, my response to the assertion that
(A) homosexual orientation is NEVER a choice to change and (B) religion or beliefs can ALWAYS be changed
was met with an insult that my answer was "meaningless."

I was saying that in SOME cases A and B are right; but in OTHERS the opposite happens (where homosexual orientation HAS been changed by choice and where religious beliefs COULD NOT BE helped or changed).

I wasn't saying ProgressivePatriot wasn't right in certain cases. But saying this isn't true in all cases, for either homosexuality or for religious beliefs.

The three points I argue with PP

1. That SOME cases of orientation CAN be changed and some cannot (whether this is homosexual, hetereosexual, bisexual, transgender etc.)

2. That SOME people CAN change their religious beliefs but some CANNOT help what they believe or what affiliation they relate to. Like Atheists and Theists cannot always help what they believe and "change to be the other way."

Many of my prolife friends cannot help their beliefs about abortion being murder. To others this appears as a "choice" but it isn't for them.

3. And that my statements I made were NOT "meaningless" but add critical depth and context to what ProgressivePatriot was saying.

So my last argument is that if what I'm saying is meaningless, so must PP statement be meaningless since that was half of what I said.

Go for it ProgressivePatriot!

Explain how this has no meaning or adds no content to what you were arguing yourself.

 

[cnm]

I was saying that in SOME cases A and B are right; but in OTHERS the opposite happens (where homosexual orientation HAS been changed by choice and where religious beliefs COULD NOT BE helped or changed).

How do you know orientation has changed, not merely behaviour?

 

[emilynghiem]

I was saying that in SOME cases A and B are right; but in OTHERS the opposite happens (where homosexual orientation HAS been changed by choice and where religious beliefs COULD NOT BE helped or changed).

How do you know orientation has changed, not merely behaviour?

Dear cnm The people who go through the change will tell you the difference.

The process is as deeply gutwrenching as the difference between "saying you are quitting drinking" and REALLY beating the whole addiction, where you KNOW you are free and won't ever go back to where you were in the past. You are not the same person.

If you read the stories of people who have really changed, there is no mistaking the difference.

 

[cnm]

Dear cnm The people who go through the change will tell you the difference.

But exactly the same people told you the complete opposite at one time. Why should they be believed now but not then?

 

[yiostheoy]

I don't know of any LGBT's that have changed.

I know of plenty of people who have changed religions though.

I am guessing the underlying fallacy here is the bad analogy fallacy.

List of fallacies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Pop23]

I don't know of any LGBT's that have changed.

I know of plenty of people who have changed religions though.

I am guessing the underlying fallacy here is the bad analogy fallacy.

List of fallacies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here’s one

Mother of slain woman: 'She was trying to get away from it all'

Changing apparently caused her death. Wife killed her when she divorced her for a man.

 

[Picaro]

Few of those who claim to be 'homosexual' are exclusively so, less than 10% are, so their own data is a big lie. They're just deviant fetishists, is all, and they aren't 'born that way'; zero evidence for that claim.

Just because the media never reports anything contrary to the Party Line doesn't mean you get the facts or any real science on the issue from MSM. There is nothing debatable about the science, since it doesn't exist except in propaganda releases, which is why none of those claiming studies show it is hardwired ever make any of the studies available on this board, just silly blurbs from alleged ' reviewers'. One read through of these 'studies' shows they are garbage, with little in the way of valid methodological evidence collecting, and they always end with all kinds of handwaves and disclaimers which in fact invalidate their own 'studies'.

download the book My Genes Made Me Do It!

myths and misconceptions about homosexuality