Progressive Propaganda: The 2nd Amendment Edition

[Skull Pilot]

So is it guns and gun laws that cause murder or cities?

I have been saying all along that our small number of ultra violent inner cities skew the murder rate for the entire country are you finally seeing that this is true?

And huge cities like NYC and London with strict gun laws have lower homicide rates than gun crazy cities like Jacksonville.

So is it gun laws or cities that cause murder?

CA has strict gun laws but not the lowest murder rate
Could it be the ultra violent inner city violence that stems from generational poverty, segregation, unemployment, under employment, drugs and gangs that drive the murder rate in these ultra violent inner city neighborhoods to a level that these very few areas skew the murder rate for the entire country?

The answer is YES

We have mass killings not in inner cities. Law enforcement killed not in big cities.

Mass killings account for less than 1% of the murder rate of the country you could wave your magic wand and stop all mass shootings tomorrow and the murder rate of the country would hardly budge

And they are frequent here and rare in countries with strong gun control.

I wouldn't call something that accounts for less than 1% frequent

I would call something that accounts for 70% frequent

 

[Brain357]

CA has many huge cities.

Irrelevant to the murder rate of the entire state

You just talked about ultra violent cities. You can’t keep your own arguments straight.

You just can't keep up

I never said gun laws lower murder rates because they don't. You are trying to make my argument fit into your simplistic equation of MORE GUN LAWS = LOWER MURDER RATES.

But since my argument actually takes into account social, economic, historical, political and cultural variables you will never be able to plug my argument into your simple equation

Your arguments are nonsense. Let’s compare NYC to Jacksonville.

70% of all murders in this country take place in very concentrated very well defines areas of just 2% of all the counties in the country.

SOme of these areas reside in states with very strict gun laws some reside in states with looser gun laws

The point that you are missing is that it's not the gun laws of the state that matter so your equation

MORE GUN LAWS = LOWER MURDER RATES doesn't hold up

Yes where most the people live. Go figure.

 

[Brain357]

And huge cities like NYC and London with strict gun laws have lower homicide rates than gun crazy cities like Jacksonville.

So is it gun laws or cities that cause murder?

CA has strict gun laws but not the lowest murder rate
Could it be the ultra violent inner city violence that stems from generational poverty, segregation, unemployment, under employment, drugs and gangs that drive the murder rate in these ultra violent inner city neighborhoods to a level that these very few areas skew the murder rate for the entire country?

The answer is YES

We have mass killings not in inner cities. Law enforcement killed not in big cities.

Mass killings account for less than 1% of the murder rate of the country you could wave your magic wand and stop all mass shootings tomorrow and the murder rate of the country would hardly budge

And they are frequent here and rare in countries with strong gun control.

I wouldn't call something that accounts for less than 1% frequent

I would call something that accounts for 70% frequent

We had 3 in 2 days not long ago.

 

[Brain357]

And huge cities like NYC and London with strict gun laws have lower homicide rates than gun crazy cities like Jacksonville.

So is it gun laws or cities that cause murder?

CA has strict gun laws but not the lowest murder rate
Could it be the ultra violent inner city violence that stems from generational poverty, segregation, unemployment, under employment, drugs and gangs that drive the murder rate in these ultra violent inner city neighborhoods to a level that these very few areas skew the murder rate for the entire country?

The answer is YES

We have mass killings not in inner cities. Law enforcement killed not in big cities.

Mass killings account for less than 1% of the murder rate of the country you could wave your magic wand and stop all mass shootings tomorrow and the murder rate of the country would hardly budge

And they are frequent here and rare in countries with strong gun control.

I wouldn't call something that accounts for less than 1% frequent

I would call something that accounts for 70% frequent

Compare how often we have them to the UK.

 

[Polishprince]

Mexico has corrupt law enforcement. They just disarmed a whole police force.

The United States has corrupt law enforcement as well.

Liberal city after liberal city has police officers shooting innocent people

Because they are also often shot, these things are rare in countries with strong gun control.

So what are you saying, disarm the police as well?

The police are armed in Germany, they just have strong gun laws so police are not killing people or being killed regularly.

So?

American police are reportedly racist, they shoot young black children for the hell of it.

Why would disarming the public change that?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

NH has a low ownership rate. And low homicide.

Nice correlation, but you are forgetting another HUGE factor.

Yes no large cities.

So is it guns and gun laws that cause murder or cities?

I have been saying all along that our small number of ultra violent inner cities skew the murder rate for the entire country are you finally seeing that this is true?

And huge cities like NYC and London with strict gun laws have lower homicide rates than gun crazy cities like Jacksonville.

So is it gun laws or cities that cause murder?

CA has strict gun laws but not the lowest murder rate
Could it be the ultra violent inner city violence that stems from generational poverty, segregation, unemployment, under employment, drugs and gangs that drive the murder rate in these ultra violent inner city neighborhoods to a level that these very few areas skew the murder rate for the entire country?

The answer is YES

No. The real colaration comes from the lack of decent jobs versus the cost of living. California is second to only NYC in the cost of living expenses. But it's the whole state versus one city. People aren't making enough to live on on the average. The decline of the Metro Cities starts with Industry leaving the Cities leaving a huge void. California is different. They have the jobs but the cost of living is so high that the companies cannot afford to pay the workers enough for the workers to live on. While the rest of the nation may require a 10 to a 15 dollar min wage, California requires at least a 25 buck an hour min wage. Just how many jobs paying 10 bucks an hour does one person need to work to make ends meet in California. So Crime pays better. In NYC, they are attracting high paying jobs like Amazon which starts people out at least 40K a year. The average worker salary at the new facility will be 60K. Amazon isn't importing many workers. The workers are already there. When Industry returns, the crime rate gets squeezed out if it pays a livable wage. CA has the industry but doesn't pay a livable wage hence the high crime rate. Guns, either more or less, have nothing to do with it and neither does the gun regs. Now, try it in CA without the gun regs and watch the body count go insane.

 

[Brain357]

Mexico has corrupt law enforcement. They just disarmed a whole police force.

The United States has corrupt law enforcement as well.

Liberal city after liberal city has police officers shooting innocent people

Because they are also often shot, these things are rare in countries with strong gun control.

So what are you saying, disarm the police as well?

The police are armed in Germany, they just have strong gun laws so police are not killing people or being killed regularly.

So?

American police are reportedly racist, they shoot young black children for the hell of it.

Why would disarming the public change that?

Our police shoot people because they encounter armed criminals at an alarming rate and are themselves often shot and killed.

 

[2aguy]

So is it gun laws or cities that cause murder?

CA has strict gun laws but not the lowest murder rate
Could it be the ultra violent inner city violence that stems from generational poverty, segregation, unemployment, under employment, drugs and gangs that drive the murder rate in these ultra violent inner city neighborhoods to a level that these very few areas skew the murder rate for the entire country?

The answer is YES

We have mass killings not in inner cities. Law enforcement killed not in big cities.

Mass killings account for less than 1% of the murder rate of the country you could wave your magic wand and stop all mass shootings tomorrow and the murder rate of the country would hardly budge

And they are frequent here and rare in countries with strong gun control.

I wouldn't call something that accounts for less than 1% frequent

I would call something that accounts for 70% frequent

Compare how often we have them to the UK.

The U.K. averaged one mass public shooting every ten years before they banned guns, and they had one each 10 years so far after they banned guns....gun control didn't change their mass public shooting events...in fact, they almost had 4 in the last few years that were stopped by dumb luck, and not one of their gun control laws stopped them....4...in the last few years vs. 1 every 10 years before they banned guns.... their gun control is not working....

 

[2aguy]

Mexico has corrupt law enforcement. They just disarmed a whole police force.

The United States has corrupt law enforcement as well.

Liberal city after liberal city has police officers shooting innocent people

Because they are also often shot, these things are rare in countries with strong gun control.

So what are you saying, disarm the police as well?

The police are armed in Germany, they just have strong gun laws so police are not killing people or being killed regularly.

So?

American police are reportedly racist, they shoot young black children for the hell of it.

Why would disarming the public change that?

Britain is beginning the "police are racist" process today.......look at their news sources and the reports of racist police are increasing.....they want more crime too....

 

[Skull Pilot]

Irrelevant to the murder rate of the entire state

You just talked about ultra violent cities. You can’t keep your own arguments straight.

You just can't keep up

I never said gun laws lower murder rates because they don't. You are trying to make my argument fit into your simplistic equation of MORE GUN LAWS = LOWER MURDER RATES.

But since my argument actually takes into account social, economic, historical, political and cultural variables you will never be able to plug my argument into your simple equation

Your arguments are nonsense. Let’s compare NYC to Jacksonville.

70% of all murders in this country take place in very concentrated very well defines areas of just 2% of all the counties in the country.

SOme of these areas reside in states with very strict gun laws some reside in states with looser gun laws

The point that you are missing is that it's not the gun laws of the state that matter so your equation

MORE GUN LAWS = LOWER MURDER RATES doesn't hold up

Yes where most the people live. Go figure.

What part of very small very distinct areas do you not understand?

Why is it that one area of 10 square blocks has a murder rate of 5 or 6 times the national average and another area just a couple miles away has a murder rate of near zero?

It has nothing to do with population as the murder rate accounts for population since it is expressed in murders per 100000

You don't seem to understand that I am not talking about the number of murders but the murder RATES

 

[Skull Pilot]

Nice correlation, but you are forgetting another HUGE factor.

Yes no large cities.

So is it guns and gun laws that cause murder or cities?

I have been saying all along that our small number of ultra violent inner cities skew the murder rate for the entire country are you finally seeing that this is true?

And huge cities like NYC and London with strict gun laws have lower homicide rates than gun crazy cities like Jacksonville.

So is it gun laws or cities that cause murder?

CA has strict gun laws but not the lowest murder rate
Could it be the ultra violent inner city violence that stems from generational poverty, segregation, unemployment, under employment, drugs and gangs that drive the murder rate in these ultra violent inner city neighborhoods to a level that these very few areas skew the murder rate for the entire country?

The answer is YES

No. The real colaration comes from the lack of decent jobs versus the cost of living. California is second to only NYC in the cost of living expenses. But it's the whole state versus one city. People aren't making enough to live on on the average. The decline of the Metro Cities starts with Industry leaving the Cities leaving a huge void. California is different. They have the jobs but the cost of living is so high that the companies cannot afford to pay the workers enough for the workers to live on. While the rest of the nation may require a 10 to a 15 dollar min wage, California requires at least a 25 buck an hour min wage. Just how many jobs paying 10 bucks an hour does one person need to work to make ends meet in California. So Crime pays better. In NYC, they are attracting high paying jobs like Amazon which starts people out at least 40K a year. The average worker salary at the new facility will be 60K. Amazon isn't importing many workers. The workers are already there. When Industry returns, the crime rate gets squeezed out if it pays a livable wage. CA has the industry but doesn't pay a livable wage hence the high crime rate. Guns, either more or less, have nothing to do with it and neither does the gun regs. Now, try it in CA without the gun regs and watch the body count go insane.

Hence the term under employment.

And you have no data to prove your claim that reducing gun restrictions in CA would increase the murder rate.

The equation

MORE GUN LAWS = LOWER MURDER RATES is patently false

 

[Lesh]

Why does a city like Chicago with the most strict gun laws in the nation have the highest murder rate by guns?

A. It doesn't

B. it is surrounded by places with pretty LAX gun laws

 

[Lesh]

The equation

MORE GUN LAWS = LOWER MURDER RATES is patently false

That's what the stats say generally.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The equation

MORE GUN LAWS = LOWER MURDER RATES is patently false

That's what the stats say generally.

No they don't

If they did then NH would have a higher murder rate than CA

 

[BS Filter]

Why does a city like Chicago with the most strict gun laws in the nation have the highest murder rate by guns?

A. It doesn't

B. it is surrounded by places with pretty LAX gun laws

So the outlying areas are responsible for the gun violence in Chicago. That's hilarious.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Yes no large cities.

So is it guns and gun laws that cause murder or cities?

I have been saying all along that our small number of ultra violent inner cities skew the murder rate for the entire country are you finally seeing that this is true?

And huge cities like NYC and London with strict gun laws have lower homicide rates than gun crazy cities like Jacksonville.

So is it gun laws or cities that cause murder?

CA has strict gun laws but not the lowest murder rate
Could it be the ultra violent inner city violence that stems from generational poverty, segregation, unemployment, under employment, drugs and gangs that drive the murder rate in these ultra violent inner city neighborhoods to a level that these very few areas skew the murder rate for the entire country?

The answer is YES

No. The real colaration comes from the lack of decent jobs versus the cost of living. California is second to only NYC in the cost of living expenses. But it's the whole state versus one city. People aren't making enough to live on on the average. The decline of the Metro Cities starts with Industry leaving the Cities leaving a huge void. California is different. They have the jobs but the cost of living is so high that the companies cannot afford to pay the workers enough for the workers to live on. While the rest of the nation may require a 10 to a 15 dollar min wage, California requires at least a 25 buck an hour min wage. Just how many jobs paying 10 bucks an hour does one person need to work to make ends meet in California. So Crime pays better. In NYC, they are attracting high paying jobs like Amazon which starts people out at least 40K a year. The average worker salary at the new facility will be 60K. Amazon isn't importing many workers. The workers are already there. When Industry returns, the crime rate gets squeezed out if it pays a livable wage. CA has the industry but doesn't pay a livable wage hence the high crime rate. Guns, either more or less, have nothing to do with it and neither does the gun regs. Now, try it in CA without the gun regs and watch the body count go insane.

Hence the term under employment.

And you have no data to prove your claim that reducing gun restrictions in CA would increase the murder rate.

The equation

MORE GUN LAWS = LOWER MURDER RATES is patently false

Not just a few days ago, a shooting happened where the only weapon the shooter could easily obtain was a handgun. He killed 12 people and himself with just one handgun. With his skill sets, what could he have done with a full blown AR-15 and 3 30 round mags in the same time. I don't think he could have broken the record set in Vegas but he could have come mighty close.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The equation

MORE GUN LAWS = LOWER MURDER RATES is patently false

That's what the stats say generally.

No they don't

If they did then NH would have a higher murder rate than CA

You left out the other factor. There are no real Metro Cities in NH. The largest city is barely a city at just over 160K. It's entire population for the state doesn't even make up a burrow in either NYC or LA. It's entire State Population is 1.2 mil. It's made up of quite a lot of small and medium towns and small cities. And a lot of Rural where there are very few people. And almost everyone there has JOBS that make enough to meet or exceed the cost of living.

 

[MisterBeale]

Why are folks talking about guns?

That isn't what the OP is about?

Isn't there enough threads on guns in the forum? The first reply to the OP was just a deflection. Are you all that dumb?

Countries with strong gun control don’t have a school shooting problem.

Neither does this one.

You only believe it does because the press tells you we do.

I haven’t heard of any school shootings in countries with strong gun control. They happen here regularly, Our kids are learning active shooter training in schools.

Of course you haven't heard of the violence in their schools, why would they have a need to manufacture such violence? They have already disarmed their population. That is sort of silly.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So is it guns and gun laws that cause murder or cities?

I have been saying all along that our small number of ultra violent inner cities skew the murder rate for the entire country are you finally seeing that this is true?

And huge cities like NYC and London with strict gun laws have lower homicide rates than gun crazy cities like Jacksonville.

So is it gun laws or cities that cause murder?

CA has strict gun laws but not the lowest murder rate
Could it be the ultra violent inner city violence that stems from generational poverty, segregation, unemployment, under employment, drugs and gangs that drive the murder rate in these ultra violent inner city neighborhoods to a level that these very few areas skew the murder rate for the entire country?

The answer is YES

No. The real colaration comes from the lack of decent jobs versus the cost of living. California is second to only NYC in the cost of living expenses. But it's the whole state versus one city. People aren't making enough to live on on the average. The decline of the Metro Cities starts with Industry leaving the Cities leaving a huge void. California is different. They have the jobs but the cost of living is so high that the companies cannot afford to pay the workers enough for the workers to live on. While the rest of the nation may require a 10 to a 15 dollar min wage, California requires at least a 25 buck an hour min wage. Just how many jobs paying 10 bucks an hour does one person need to work to make ends meet in California. So Crime pays better. In NYC, they are attracting high paying jobs like Amazon which starts people out at least 40K a year. The average worker salary at the new facility will be 60K. Amazon isn't importing many workers. The workers are already there. When Industry returns, the crime rate gets squeezed out if it pays a livable wage. CA has the industry but doesn't pay a livable wage hence the high crime rate. Guns, either more or less, have nothing to do with it and neither does the gun regs. Now, try it in CA without the gun regs and watch the body count go insane.

Hence the term under employment.

And you have no data to prove your claim that reducing gun restrictions in CA would increase the murder rate.

The equation

MORE GUN LAWS = LOWER MURDER RATES is patently false

Not just a few days ago, a shooting happened where the only weapon the shooter could easily obtain was a handgun. He killed 12 people and himself with just one handgun. With his skill sets, what could he have done with a full blown AR-15 and 3 30 round mags in the same time. I don't think he could have broken the record set in Vegas but he could have come mighty close.

More speculation therefore meaningless

 

[Skull Pilot]

The equation

MORE GUN LAWS = LOWER MURDER RATES is patently false

That's what the stats say generally.

No they don't

If they did then NH would have a higher murder rate than CA

You left out the other factor. There are no real Metro Cities in NH. The largest city is barely a city at just over 160K. It's entire population for the state doesn't even make up a burrow in either NYC or LA. It's entire State Population is 1.2 mil. It's made up of quite a lot of small and medium towns and small cities. And a lot of Rural where there are very few people. And almost everyone there has JOBS that make enough to meet or exceed the cost of living.

So now are you saying cities cause high murder rates or is it gun laws?

Murder RATES expressed in MURDERS PER 100000 so it doesn't matter where people in a state live.

I've been saying all along that it is a small number of very concentrated areas that are usually inner city neighborhoods with a litany of social ills going back decades and the violence these societal ills breed in these very well defined areas that skew the murder rate for the entire country.