Proclaiming Hillary received the most popular votes is HIGHLY overrated

[NYcarbineer]

You just made the argument that I made and you don't even know it.

B.S. You said they made mistakes, so in your world what mistakes did they make?

.

They made the mistake of limiting voting rights to a very small group.

We've corrected that. We can and should now correct the electoral college mistake. It makes no sense to award election victories to people who lose the vote.

They didn't make that mistake.. Again why do you take history out of context?

So in your world the U. S. would look exactly as it does now if they dropped the nuclear bomb that every one could vote?

Damn are you ignorant.. We would have looked like Europe with three or four countries


.

The founders did not make the mistake of not securing universal suffrage for all American citizens?

Again the United States would not be the United States today, why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

You are incoherent, that's what makes you hard to understand.

The Constitution has been amended over two dozen times. Are you certain all of that amending was wrong?

 

[NYcarbineer]

You just made the argument that I made and you don't even know it.

B.S. You said they made mistakes, so in your world what mistakes did they make?

.

They made the mistake of limiting voting rights to a very small group.

We've corrected that. We can and should now correct the electoral college mistake. It makes no sense to award election victories to people who lose the vote.

That has never happened. You're just too stupid to understand why we have the EC.

We have the EC because that was needed to get the Constitution ratified. That doesn't make it right.

So you do comprehend it but want to spin it..

You've lost the original point of this exchange. I contest the notion of some that we owe some sort of loyalty to the founder's original intentions and actions.

 

[Wyatt earp]

B.S. You said they made mistakes, so in your world what mistakes did they make?

.

They made the mistake of limiting voting rights to a very small group.

We've corrected that. We can and should now correct the electoral college mistake. It makes no sense to award election victories to people who lose the vote.

They didn't make that mistake.. Again why do you take history out of context?

So in your world the U. S. would look exactly as it does now if they dropped the nuclear bomb that every one could vote?

Damn are you ignorant.. We would have looked like Europe with three or four countries


.

The founders did not make the mistake of not securing universal suffrage for all American citizens?

Again the United States would not be the United States today, why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

You are incoherent, that's what makes you hard to understand.

The Constitution has been amended over two dozen times. Are you certain all of that amending was wrong?

When did I ever said it was wrong? The constitution allowed for amendments because they knew the world was going to change..

 

[Wyatt earp]

B.S. You said they made mistakes, so in your world what mistakes did they make?

.

They made the mistake of limiting voting rights to a very small group.

We've corrected that. We can and should now correct the electoral college mistake. It makes no sense to award election victories to people who lose the vote.

That has never happened. You're just too stupid to understand why we have the EC.

We have the EC because that was needed to get the Constitution ratified. That doesn't make it right.

So you do comprehend it but want to spin it..

You've lost the original point of this exchange. I contest the notion of some that we owe some sort of loyalty to the founder's original intentions and actions.

The founders original intentions were this


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.




Do you know what we the people mean??



.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Only one president in the history of America ever got more votes than hillary. Know who? Obama

The population has grown since Reagan's day but he got a higher percent. obama never had the majority of votes, he got more than McCain and Romney. You left that part out.

That's the part of all this that makes me really angry. We're down to about half of the people who can vote are actually voting. That's a damn tragedy. A lot of folks are dying every day to defend the rights of citizens in this country. A lot of folks died, killed by their fellow countrymen, to expand the right to vote to the entire population. Post 9/11, the President of the United States has unprecedented power and Congress has shown repeatedly they're not willing to check a President. The voting booth is the one real check on power and half the voters can't be bothered to go.

What the holy hell!

They weren't kidding when they said "Every nation gets the government it deserves." We are definitely getting that now.

I don't get it. When Obama was president we had a government we didn't deserve? And, presumably of course, if Hillary had won the case would be the same?

Yes. Nations always get the government they deserve. It's not a hard quote to figure out. Either the people in the nation outright support the government they have, or they are to apethetic or weak to change it. Either way, they get the government they deserve.

WRONG! The media lies and manipulates the news, largely controlled by one political party. obama would never had been elected in the first place if they had not demonized Bush and then pinned all the economic problems on him and the Republicans, while not vetting obama at all. Then the second time they simply let him get away with all his lies. ALMOST forced Hillary on us but thank God enough people finally woke up to how corrupt they are.

There was an election, people voted, and we elected Obama, same as we elected Bush, same as we elected Clinton, same as we elected Bush Sr., same as we elected Reagan, etc.

If people neither wanted nor deserved Governments lead by these men, they'd have risen up and changed it. This time we elected Trump and we will get the government we deserve.

Nations ALWAYS have the governments they deserve.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

How can you call the truth over rated? She won the popular vote. You can call it anything you like except a lie.

At the moment she has less than .5% more of the pv, and they haven't all been counted. Since the election was not fought on the basis of securing the PV, as pointed out by OP, it is meaningless.

Here, have some Play Doh:

View attachment 98697

"Three million votes in the U.S. presidential election were cast by illegal aliens, according to Greg Phillips of the VoteFraud.org organization.

If true, this would mean that Donald Trump still won the contest despite widespread vote fraud and almost certainly won the popular vote.

“We have verified more than three million votes cast by non-citizens,” tweeted Phillips after reporting that the group had completed an analysis of a database of 180 million voter registrations."
Report: Three Million Votes in Presidential Election Cast by Illegal Aliens

Bullshit.

Yes, there was voter fraud illegal aliens were allowed to vote all over the country… Fact

Bullshit.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

You just made the argument that I made and you don't even know it.

B.S. You said they made mistakes, so in your world what mistakes did they make?

.

They made the mistake of limiting voting rights to a very small group.

We've corrected that. We can and should now correct the electoral college mistake. It makes no sense to award election victories to people who lose the vote.

They didn't make that mistake.. Again why do you take history out of context?

So in your world the U. S. would look exactly as it does now if they dropped the nuclear bomb that every one could vote?

Damn are you ignorant.. We would have looked like Europe with three or four countries


.

The founders did not make the mistake of not securing universal suffrage for all American citizens?

Again the United States would not be the United States today, why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Honest question: Would that be so bad?

The Founders entirely ducked the slavery question instead choosing unity and pushing off the problem over actually solving it. I give them a lot of credit for the amazing nation they forged, but it had some pretty damn serious flaws right there at the get go, one of which is the timebomb of slavery.

We are still dealing with some of those decisions made back in Philadelphia all those years ago. Yeah, things would look different, we might have had different problems, but we still as a nation have our heads so up our asses on issues of race and sexism that I think a version of the Constitution with universal sufferage out of the gate is worth considering.

 

[Iceweasel]

The population has grown since Reagan's day but he got a higher percent. obama never had the majority of votes, he got more than McCain and Romney. You left that part out.

That's the part of all this that makes me really angry. We're down to about half of the people who can vote are actually voting. That's a damn tragedy. A lot of folks are dying every day to defend the rights of citizens in this country. A lot of folks died, killed by their fellow countrymen, to expand the right to vote to the entire population. Post 9/11, the President of the United States has unprecedented power and Congress has shown repeatedly they're not willing to check a President. The voting booth is the one real check on power and half the voters can't be bothered to go.

What the holy hell!

They weren't kidding when they said "Every nation gets the government it deserves." We are definitely getting that now.

I don't get it. When Obama was president we had a government we didn't deserve? And, presumably of course, if Hillary had won the case would be the same?

Yes. Nations always get the government they deserve. It's not a hard quote to figure out. Either the people in the nation outright support the government they have, or they are to apethetic or weak to change it. Either way, they get the government they deserve.

WRONG! The media lies and manipulates the news, largely controlled by one political party. obama would never had been elected in the first place if they had not demonized Bush and then pinned all the economic problems on him and the Republicans, while not vetting obama at all. Then the second time they simply let him get away with all his lies. ALMOST forced Hillary on us but thank God enough people finally woke up to how corrupt they are.

There was an election, people voted, and we elected Obama, same as we elected Bush, same as we elected Clinton, same as we elected Bush Sr., same as we elected Reagan, etc.

If people neither wanted nor deserved Governments lead by these men, they'd have risen up and changed it. This time we elected Trump and we will get the government we deserve.

Nations ALWAYS have the governments they deserve.

Wrong. Still. Repeating it doesn't turn it into truth.

 

[Iceweasel]

I think a version of the Constitution with universal sufferage out of the gate is worth considering.

It's been solved. Long ago. Take an aspirin and lay down for a bit.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

That's the part of all this that makes me really angry. We're down to about half of the people who can vote are actually voting. That's a damn tragedy. A lot of folks are dying every day to defend the rights of citizens in this country. A lot of folks died, killed by their fellow countrymen, to expand the right to vote to the entire population. Post 9/11, the President of the United States has unprecedented power and Congress has shown repeatedly they're not willing to check a President. The voting booth is the one real check on power and half the voters can't be bothered to go.

What the holy hell!

They weren't kidding when they said "Every nation gets the government it deserves." We are definitely getting that now.

I don't get it. When Obama was president we had a government we didn't deserve? And, presumably of course, if Hillary had won the case would be the same?

Yes. Nations always get the government they deserve. It's not a hard quote to figure out. Either the people in the nation outright support the government they have, or they are to apethetic or weak to change it. Either way, they get the government they deserve.

WRONG! The media lies and manipulates the news, largely controlled by one political party. obama would never had been elected in the first place if they had not demonized Bush and then pinned all the economic problems on him and the Republicans, while not vetting obama at all. Then the second time they simply let him get away with all his lies. ALMOST forced Hillary on us but thank God enough people finally woke up to how corrupt they are.

There was an election, people voted, and we elected Obama, same as we elected Bush, same as we elected Clinton, same as we elected Bush Sr., same as we elected Reagan, etc.

If people neither wanted nor deserved Governments lead by these men, they'd have risen up and changed it. This time we elected Trump and we will get the government we deserve.

Nations ALWAYS have the governments they deserve.

Wrong. Still. Repeating it doesn't turn it into truth.

Denying it doesn't undo it. Nations always have the government they deserve.

I think where you're failing to get this is that this isn't about the individual people. I didn't deserve to have to deal with the idiotic Bobby Jindal when I was in Louisiana all those years, yet there he was. But the State of Louisiana absolutely deserved him. They voted him in twice, failed to organize a recall, and allowed him to blow up his State's budget. The people of the State absolutely deserved, even if I personally didn't.

If the nation doesn't want a government, they can get rid of it. That doesn't mean violence, but it also isn't limited to the voting box. Even here, enough folks get fed up with the government we have outlets to tear it down and start over.

The trick is this, the people as a whole give a government the permission to act either through their apathy or through their actions in support. So yes, we have the government we deserve. Some folks here will see that in a positive way, and some in a negative, but we absolutely have the government we deserve. No one can force a government on a population against their will if enough people care enough to change it.

 

[Wyatt earp]

B.S. You said they made mistakes, so in your world what mistakes did they make?

.

They made the mistake of limiting voting rights to a very small group.

We've corrected that. We can and should now correct the electoral college mistake. It makes no sense to award election victories to people who lose the vote.

They didn't make that mistake.. Again why do you take history out of context?

So in your world the U. S. would look exactly as it does now if they dropped the nuclear bomb that every one could vote?

Damn are you ignorant.. We would have looked like Europe with three or four countries


.

The founders did not make the mistake of not securing universal suffrage for all American citizens?

Again the United States would not be the United States today, why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Honest question: Would that be so bad?

The Founders entirely ducked the slavery question instead choosing unity and pushing off the problem over actually solving it. I give them a lot of credit for the amazing nation they forged, but it had some pretty damn serious flaws right there at the get go, one of which is the timebomb of slavery.

We are still dealing with some of those decisions made back in Philadelphia all those years ago. Yeah, things would look different, we might have had different problems, but we still as a nation have our heads so up our asses on issues of race and sexism that I think a version of the Constitution with universal sufferage out of the gate is worth considering.

You people blow my mind away of your ignorance of history..

So in your world waaay back in 1776 right off the bat blacks were free, women could vote gays could marry... So how big would this pretend country of yours be a half an acre with 6 people living on it?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I think a version of the Constitution with universal sufferage out of the gate is worth considering.

It's been solved. Long ago. Take an aspirin and lay down for a bit.

Sufferage? Sure mostly. We still have the issue that polling places aren't evenly distributed and that there's a wide variety of boundaries to voting that folks put into place to make it hard for their opponents to vote. There's no good reason folks had to stand in line for hours to vote against Hillary in Michigan, nor is there any good reason folks had to stand in line for hours to vote for her in other places. Those are legal voters, they should be able to vote with minimal difficulty.

Racism and sexism? No, no we haven't put that behind us. We're still dealing with that. I think we'll eventually move past it, but we aren't there yet. Maybe if we'd gone with Universal sufferage out of the gate we'd be finally past it.

 

[Iceweasel]

I don't get it. When Obama was president we had a government we didn't deserve? And, presumably of course, if Hillary had won the case would be the same?

Yes. Nations always get the government they deserve. It's not a hard quote to figure out. Either the people in the nation outright support the government they have, or they are to apethetic or weak to change it. Either way, they get the government they deserve.

WRONG! The media lies and manipulates the news, largely controlled by one political party. obama would never had been elected in the first place if they had not demonized Bush and then pinned all the economic problems on him and the Republicans, while not vetting obama at all. Then the second time they simply let him get away with all his lies. ALMOST forced Hillary on us but thank God enough people finally woke up to how corrupt they are.

There was an election, people voted, and we elected Obama, same as we elected Bush, same as we elected Clinton, same as we elected Bush Sr., same as we elected Reagan, etc.

If people neither wanted nor deserved Governments lead by these men, they'd have risen up and changed it. This time we elected Trump and we will get the government we deserve.

Nations ALWAYS have the governments they deserve.

Wrong. Still. Repeating it doesn't turn it into truth.

Denying it doesn't undo it. Nations always have the government they deserve.

I think where you're failing to get this is that this isn't about the individual people. I didn't deserve to have to deal with the idiotic Bobby Jindal when I was in Louisiana all those years, yet there he was. But the State of Louisiana absolutely deserved him. They voted him in twice, failed to organize a recall, and allowed him to blow up his State's budget. The people of the State absolutely deserved, even if I personally didn't.

If the nation doesn't want a government, they can get rid of it. That doesn't mean violence, but it also isn't limited to the voting box. Even here, enough folks get fed up with the government we have outlets to tear it down and start over.

The trick is this, the people as a whole give a government the permission to act either through their apathy or through their actions in support. So yes, we have the government we deserve. Some folks here will see that in a positive way, and some in a negative, but we absolutely have the government we deserve. No one can force a government on a population against their will if enough people care enough to change it.

So no amount of corruption matters? No, I can't agree. The media is so corrupt they lie about how good or bad the economy is, depending on who's in office.

 

[Iceweasel]

I think a version of the Constitution with universal sufferage out of the gate is worth considering.

It's been solved. Long ago. Take an aspirin and lay down for a bit.

Sufferage? Sure mostly. We still have the issue that polling places aren't evenly distributed and that there's a wide variety of boundaries to voting that folks put into place to make it hard for their opponents to vote. There's no good reason folks had to stand in line for hours to vote against Hillary in Michigan, nor is there any good reason folks had to stand in line for hours to vote for her in other places. Those are legal voters, they should be able to vote with minimal difficulty.

Racism and sexism? No, no we haven't put that behind us. We're still dealing with that. I think we'll eventually move past it, but we aren't there yet. Maybe if we'd gone with Universal sufferage out of the gate we'd be finally past it.

So, on the one hand we have the government we deserve, then on the other hand the people are treated unfairly? Doesn't add up. If people deserve it there's no room for complaint, correct?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

They made the mistake of limiting voting rights to a very small group.

We've corrected that. We can and should now correct the electoral college mistake. It makes no sense to award election victories to people who lose the vote.

They didn't make that mistake.. Again why do you take history out of context?

So in your world the U. S. would look exactly as it does now if they dropped the nuclear bomb that every one could vote?

Damn are you ignorant.. We would have looked like Europe with three or four countries


.

The founders did not make the mistake of not securing universal suffrage for all American citizens?

Again the United States would not be the United States today, why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Honest question: Would that be so bad?

The Founders entirely ducked the slavery question instead choosing unity and pushing off the problem over actually solving it. I give them a lot of credit for the amazing nation they forged, but it had some pretty damn serious flaws right there at the get go, one of which is the timebomb of slavery.

We are still dealing with some of those decisions made back in Philadelphia all those years ago. Yeah, things would look different, we might have had different problems, but we still as a nation have our heads so up our asses on issues of race and sexism that I think a version of the Constitution with universal sufferage out of the gate is worth considering.

You people blow my mind away of your ignorance of history..

So in your world waaay back in 1776 right off the bat blacks were free, women could vote gays could marry... So how big would this pretend country of yours be a half an acre with 6 people living on it?

What's your argument it wouldn't be successful?

The nation back at the founding was small enough that under universal sufferage the populace would have made education an absolute priority, especially if everyone was voting. We've seen in other parts of histoy that when education is open to more people and more readily available, those societies make huge strides in science and civics. The Nation would have had a larger poll of people to pull from for the military if protection was needed. I'm not seeing the downside here.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I think a version of the Constitution with universal sufferage out of the gate is worth considering.

It's been solved. Long ago. Take an aspirin and lay down for a bit.

Sufferage? Sure mostly. We still have the issue that polling places aren't evenly distributed and that there's a wide variety of boundaries to voting that folks put into place to make it hard for their opponents to vote. There's no good reason folks had to stand in line for hours to vote against Hillary in Michigan, nor is there any good reason folks had to stand in line for hours to vote for her in other places. Those are legal voters, they should be able to vote with minimal difficulty.

Racism and sexism? No, no we haven't put that behind us. We're still dealing with that. I think we'll eventually move past it, but we aren't there yet. Maybe if we'd gone with Universal sufferage out of the gate we'd be finally past it.

So, on the one hand we have the government we deserve, then on the other hand the people are treated unfairly? Doesn't add up. If people deserve it there's no room for complaint, correct?

The complaint is part of how you change things if you don't have the government you think you deserve. Whether things change or not relates to whether the nation has the government it deserves.

You, as a person, can also complain about how you are treated. Again, this isn't about the individual. You may not deserve the government you have, but the nation absolutely does. If it didn't, then the people as a whole would change it. IF you have evil government it is because the nation has chosen that and the nation absolutely deserves it and all the consequences.

For example: Jewish people didn't deserve how they were treated under the Nazi's. Neither did gay people, gypsies, etc. But the German nation absolutely deserved the Nazi's and all the consequences of it.

Yes. Nations always get the government they deserve. It's not a hard quote to figure out. Either the people in the nation outright support the government they have, or they are to apethetic or weak to change it. Either way, they get the government they deserve.

WRONG! The media lies and manipulates the news, largely controlled by one political party. obama would never had been elected in the first place if they had not demonized Bush and then pinned all the economic problems on him and the Republicans, while not vetting obama at all. Then the second time they simply let him get away with all his lies. ALMOST forced Hillary on us but thank God enough people finally woke up to how corrupt they are.

There was an election, people voted, and we elected Obama, same as we elected Bush, same as we elected Clinton, same as we elected Bush Sr., same as we elected Reagan, etc.

If people neither wanted nor deserved Governments lead by these men, they'd have risen up and changed it. This time we elected Trump and we will get the government we deserve.

Nations ALWAYS have the governments they deserve.

Wrong. Still. Repeating it doesn't turn it into truth.

Denying it doesn't undo it. Nations always have the government they deserve.

I think where you're failing to get this is that this isn't about the individual people. I didn't deserve to have to deal with the idiotic Bobby Jindal when I was in Louisiana all those years, yet there he was. But the State of Louisiana absolutely deserved him. They voted him in twice, failed to organize a recall, and allowed him to blow up his State's budget. The people of the State absolutely deserved, even if I personally didn't.

If the nation doesn't want a government, they can get rid of it. That doesn't mean violence, but it also isn't limited to the voting box. Even here, enough folks get fed up with the government we have outlets to tear it down and start over.

The trick is this, the people as a whole give a government the permission to act either through their apathy or through their actions in support. So yes, we have the government we deserve. Some folks here will see that in a positive way, and some in a negative, but we absolutely have the government we deserve. No one can force a government on a population against their will if enough people care enough to change it.

So no amount of corruption matters? No, I can't agree. The media is so corrupt they lie about how good or bad the economy is, depending on who's in office.

Corruption makes no difference. We tolearte the corruption and if it is part of the government we deserve it through our tolerance of it.

 

[Wyatt earp]

They didn't make that mistake.. Again why do you take history out of context?

So in your world the U. S. would look exactly as it does now if they dropped the nuclear bomb that every one could vote?

Damn are you ignorant.. We would have looked like Europe with three or four countries


.

The founders did not make the mistake of not securing universal suffrage for all American citizens?

Again the United States would not be the United States today, why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Honest question: Would that be so bad?

The Founders entirely ducked the slavery question instead choosing unity and pushing off the problem over actually solving it. I give them a lot of credit for the amazing nation they forged, but it had some pretty damn serious flaws right there at the get go, one of which is the timebomb of slavery.

We are still dealing with some of those decisions made back in Philadelphia all those years ago. Yeah, things would look different, we might have had different problems, but we still as a nation have our heads so up our asses on issues of race and sexism that I think a version of the Constitution with universal sufferage out of the gate is worth considering.

You people blow my mind away of your ignorance of history..

So in your world waaay back in 1776 right off the bat blacks were free, women could vote gays could marry... So how big would this pretend country of yours be a half an acre with 6 people living on it?

What's your argument it wouldn't be successful?

The nation back at the founding was small enough that under universal sufferage the populace would have made education an absolute priority, especially if everyone was voting. We've seen in other parts of histoy that when education is open to more people and more readily available, those societies make huge strides in science and civics. The Nation would have had a larger poll of people to pull from for the military if protection was needed. I'm not seeing the downside here.

We wouldn't have had a nation.. What's so hard for you to comprehend? go to a museum, read a book..

 

[NYcarbineer]

They made the mistake of limiting voting rights to a very small group.

We've corrected that. We can and should now correct the electoral college mistake. It makes no sense to award election victories to people who lose the vote.

They didn't make that mistake.. Again why do you take history out of context?

So in your world the U. S. would look exactly as it does now if they dropped the nuclear bomb that every one could vote?

Damn are you ignorant.. We would have looked like Europe with three or four countries


.

The founders did not make the mistake of not securing universal suffrage for all American citizens?

Again the United States would not be the United States today, why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Honest question: Would that be so bad?

The Founders entirely ducked the slavery question instead choosing unity and pushing off the problem over actually solving it. I give them a lot of credit for the amazing nation they forged, but it had some pretty damn serious flaws right there at the get go, one of which is the timebomb of slavery.

We are still dealing with some of those decisions made back in Philadelphia all those years ago. Yeah, things would look different, we might have had different problems, but we still as a nation have our heads so up our asses on issues of race and sexism that I think a version of the Constitution with universal sufferage out of the gate is worth considering.

You people blow my mind away of your ignorance of history..

So in your world waaay back in 1776 right off the bat blacks were free, women could vote gays could marry... So how big would this pretend country of yours be a half an acre with 6 people living on it?

So the electoral college is like slavery, but you think we need to keep the electoral college out of respect to the founders?

What?

 

[Wyatt earp]

They didn't make that mistake.. Again why do you take history out of context?

So in your world the U. S. would look exactly as it does now if they dropped the nuclear bomb that every one could vote?

Damn are you ignorant.. We would have looked like Europe with three or four countries


.

The founders did not make the mistake of not securing universal suffrage for all American citizens?

Again the United States would not be the United States today, why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Honest question: Would that be so bad?

The Founders entirely ducked the slavery question instead choosing unity and pushing off the problem over actually solving it. I give them a lot of credit for the amazing nation they forged, but it had some pretty damn serious flaws right there at the get go, one of which is the timebomb of slavery.

We are still dealing with some of those decisions made back in Philadelphia all those years ago. Yeah, things would look different, we might have had different problems, but we still as a nation have our heads so up our asses on issues of race and sexism that I think a version of the Constitution with universal sufferage out of the gate is worth considering.

You people blow my mind away of your ignorance of history..

So in your world waaay back in 1776 right off the bat blacks were free, women could vote gays could marry... So how big would this pretend country of yours be a half an acre with 6 people living on it?

What's your argument it wouldn't be successful?

The nation back at the founding was small enough that under universal sufferage the populace would have made education an absolute priority, especially if everyone was voting. We've seen in other parts of histoy that when education is open to more people and more readily available, those societies make huge strides in science and civics. The Nation would have had a larger poll of people to pull from for the military if protection was needed. I'm not seeing the downside here.

Plus you do know we had a civil war over it right?




Slavery Comes To The New World

African slavery began in North America in 1619 at Jamestown, Virginia. The first American-built slave ship, Desire, launched from Massachusetts in 1636, beginning the slave trade between Britain’s American colonies and Africa. From the beginning, some white colonists were uncomfortable with the notion of slavery. At the time of the American Revolution against the English Crown, Delaware (1776) and Virginia (1778) prohibited importation of African slaves; Vermont became the first of the 13 colonies to abolish slavery (1777); Rhode Island prohibited taking slaves from the colony (1778); and Pennsylvania began gradual emancipation in 1780.

The Maryland Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery and the Relief of Free Negroes and Others Unlawfully Held in Bondage was founded in 1789, the same year the former colonies replaced their Articles of Confederation with the new Constitution, “in order to form a more perfect union.”

When the U.S. Constitution was written, it made no specific mention of slavery, but it provided for the return of fugitives (which encompassed criminals, indentured servants and slaves). It allowed each slave within a state to be counted as three-fifths of a person for the purpose of determining population and representation in the House of Representatives (Article I, Section 3, says representation and direct taxation will be determined based on the number of “free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three-fifths of all other persons.”)

The Constitution prohibited importation of slaves, to begin in 1808, but again managed to do so without using the words “slave” or “slavery.” Slave trading became a capital offense in 1819. There existed a general feeling that slavery would gradually pass away. Improvements in technology—the cotton gin and sewing machine—increased the demand for slave labor, however, in order to produce more cotton in Southern states. By the 1830s, many Southerners had shifted from, “Slavery is a necessary evil,” to “Slavery is a positive good.” The institution existed because it was “God’s will,” a Christian duty to lift the African out of barbarism while still exerting control over his “animal passions.”

 

[Wyatt earp]

They didn't make that mistake.. Again why do you take history out of context?

So in your world the U. S. would look exactly as it does now if they dropped the nuclear bomb that every one could vote?

Damn are you ignorant.. We would have looked like Europe with three or four countries


.

The founders did not make the mistake of not securing universal suffrage for all American citizens?

Again the United States would not be the United States today, why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Honest question: Would that be so bad?

The Founders entirely ducked the slavery question instead choosing unity and pushing off the problem over actually solving it. I give them a lot of credit for the amazing nation they forged, but it had some pretty damn serious flaws right there at the get go, one of which is the timebomb of slavery.

We are still dealing with some of those decisions made back in Philadelphia all those years ago. Yeah, things would look different, we might have had different problems, but we still as a nation have our heads so up our asses on issues of race and sexism that I think a version of the Constitution with universal sufferage out of the gate is worth considering.

You people blow my mind away of your ignorance of history..

So in your world waaay back in 1776 right off the bat blacks were free, women could vote gays could marry... So how big would this pretend country of yours be a half an acre with 6 people living on it?

So the electoral college is like slavery, but you think we need to keep the electoral college out of respect to the founders?

What?

You still trying to spin it so the only votes that count are the poor in the city's and elites? OK tell us how it's like slavery?

Surely not like how the democrats keep the black vote by promising free stuff and promoting racism and segregation..