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Meister: "Are you saying that obama never wanted a socialist UHC?"
As long as he's been in public office, the answer is obviously no. Not when he was chairman of the Illinois Senate's Health and Human Services Committee, not when he was on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions in the U.S. Senate, and not as President of the United States. He's never demonstrated any interest in "socialist" health policy, despite having ample opportunity to pursue it if he so desired.
He's shown himself time and again to be interested in relying primarily on markets and incentives to expand coverage and address deficiencies in our system, like the slightly center-left politician he is. What he believed in the '80s before he enter politics I don't know, nor do I particularly care.
Meister: "Are you saying that obama never wanted a socialist UHC?"
As long as he's been in public office, the answer is obviously no. Not when he was chairman of the Illinois Senate's Health and Human Services Committee, not when he was on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions in the U.S. Senate, and not as President of the United States. He's never demonstrated any interest in "socialist" health policy, despite having ample opportunity to pursue it if he so desired.
He's shown himself time and again to be interested in relying primarily on markets and incentives to expand coverage and address deficiencies in our system, like the slightly center-left politician he is. What he believed in the '80s before he enter politics I don't know, nor do I particularly care.
Quit your spinning, Greenbeard, you are so disengenuous that you can't even respond to his own words. You won't answer my simple question honestly because you know I'm right.
Those youtubes are not from the 80's...sorry to break your bubble....but don't try and lie about it either. sheesh...
Those Youtubes were from a 2003 speech.
ObamaCare is every Socialists wet dream
Meister: "Are you saying that obama never wanted a socialist UHC?"
As long as he's been in public office, the answer is obviously no. Not when he was chairman of the Illinois Senate's Health and Human Services Committee, not when he was on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions in the U.S. Senate, and not as President of the United States. He's never demonstrated any interest in "socialist" health policy, despite having ample opportunity to pursue it if he so desired.
He's shown himself time and again to be interested in relying primarily on markets and incentives to expand coverage and address deficiencies in our system, like the slightly center-left politician he is. What he believed in the '80s before he enter politics I don't know, nor do I particularly care.
"He's shown himself time and again to be interested in relying primarily on markets"
Not just a lie, but the polar opposite of the truth
"He's shown himself time and again to be interested in relying primarily on markets"
Not just a lie, but the polar opposite of the truth
The best way to enable individuals and families to buy, own, and keep health insurance from job to jobwithout losing the tax advantages of the employment-based coverageis to transform the balkanized and dysfunctional state health insurance market into a single health insurance market. This new market would function well for all sorts of individuals and small businesses, not just workers employed by large companies.
A sound legal framework is necessary to secure fully functioning and efficient markets. Current law governing health insurance in many states does not work well to control costs or to expand personal access to coverage. Accordingly, state officials who are serious about creating new, consumer-based systems need to create a new legal framework for health insurance.
The best option is a health insurance market exchange. A properly designed health insurance exchange would function as a single market for all kinds of health insurance plans, including traditional insurance plans, health maintenance organizations, health savings accounts, and other new coverage options that might emerge in response to consumer demand. In principle, it would function like a stock exchange, which is a single market for all varieties of stocks and reduces the costs of buying, selling, and trading stocks. For the same reasons, other types of market transactions are also centralized, such as farmers markets, single locations where shoppers can purchase a variety of fresh fruits and vegetables, and Carmax, where consumers can choose from among all kinds of makes and models of automobiles.
Those youtubes are not from the 80's...sorry to break your bubble....but don't try and lie about it either. sheesh...
As long as he's been in public office, the answer is obviously no. Not when he was chairman of the Illinois Senate's Health and Human Services Committee, not when he was on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions in the U.S. Senate, and not as President of the United States. He's never demonstrated any interest in "socialist" health policy, despite having ample opportunity to pursue it if he so desired.
He's shown himself time and again to be interested in relying primarily on markets and incentives to expand coverage and address deficiencies in our system, like the slightly center-left politician he is. What he believed in the '80s before he enter politics I don't know, nor do I particularly care.
Quit your spinning, Greenbeard, you are so disengenuous that you can't even respond to his own words. You won't answer my simple question honestly because you know I'm right.
Those youtubes are not from the 80's...sorry to break your bubble....but don't try and lie about it either. sheesh...
Those Youtubes were from a 2003 speech.
Daivd Plouffe sends him here with talking points, it's not Greeny's fault he looks like a liar and an ignoramus
"He's shown himself time and again to be interested in relying primarily on markets"
Not just a lie, but the polar opposite of the truth
Obama's preferred vehicle for expanding coverage is the health insurance exchange, a market-based solution. You might recognize it from The Heritage Foundation's concept papers:
The best way to enable individuals and families to buy, own, and keep health insurance from job to jobwithout losing the tax advantages of the employment-based coverageis to transform the balkanized and dysfunctional state health insurance market into a single health insurance market. This new market would function well for all sorts of individuals and small businesses, not just workers employed by large companies.
A sound legal framework is necessary to secure fully functioning and efficient markets. Current law governing health insurance in many states does not work well to control costs or to expand personal access to coverage. Accordingly, state officials who are serious about creating new, consumer-based systems need to create a new legal framework for health insurance.
The best option is a health insurance market exchange. A properly designed health insurance exchange would function as a single market for all kinds of health insurance plans, including traditional insurance plans, health maintenance organizations, health savings accounts, and other new coverage options that might emerge in response to consumer demand. In principle, it would function like a stock exchange, which is a single market for all varieties of stocks and reduces the costs of buying, selling, and trading stocks. For the same reasons, other types of market transactions are also centralized, such as farmers markets, single locations where shoppers can purchase a variety of fresh fruits and vegetables, and Carmax, where consumers can choose from among all kinds of makes and models of automobiles.
Oh wait, I forgot that Heritage is an anti-market, socialist think tank.
Those youtubes are not from the 80's...sorry to break your bubble....but don't try and lie about it either. sheesh...
The "smoking gun" video is from 2003, when Obama was busy not pursuing "socialist" health policy as chair of the Illinois Senate's health committee. But again, don't worry about trusting your lying eyes. Go with your gut.
We know what Obama campaigned on in 2008 because (if we can't quite remember) his '08 campaign issues page can still be viewed via the Wayback Machine.
Looks like he was proposing:
- A health insurance exchange concept based on guaranteed issue and community rating rules, minimum coverage requirements for plans, and income-based subsidies for low-to-middle income people
- Medicaid and CHIP expansions, as well as extension of dependent coverage to allow 20-somethings to remain on their parents' plans
- Movement toward more disease management, care coordination, health information technology, and transparency on quality and costs
- Patient safety initiatives, value-based purchasing, medical loss ratio requirements for insurance markets, and support for comparative effectiveness research
In other words, something very, very similar to what became law two years later.
It just goes to show how sneaky he is.
By stating his plans openly he made sure that nobody took any notice of them.
So, really, in a way, he has imposed his plans by stealth.
The Google sleuths are only interested in coming up with theories based on something they've supposedly discovered that has never been made public.
Why don't you two get a room and collaberate together. Please go back to the youtube's I provided for your viewing pleasure. Obama's words from Obama's mouth. The only thing stealth is your comprehension.
ObamaCare is every Socialists wet dream
No, remember that didn't get a seat at the table. Single payer. Just let us buy into the same plan our grandparents have. Medicare. That would be affordable and allowing young people to buy in would actually lower costs. Right now its all old people. Its gotta be expensive to cover all old people. So let us who want to pay $150 a month and have that coverage. Government run. Cut the for profit Blue Cross or HAP out of the equasion. They have to make a 15% profit margain the government does not.
I know, too much for you to grasp. Socialism it is. Thats a dirty word, right? But capitalism is a good word, right? Even if its croney.
So I see this has deteriorated into the usual name-calling etc... but honestly, I haven't seen any actual hard evidence of Obama doing anything to push us toward socialism.
I would say ObamaCare is the only thing that comes even close but that's just a really bad POS legislation and still leaves everything in control of the private sector.
Nothing else comes to mind.
Any political system that doesn't have total private ownership and control must be socialism.Socialism is government control of the economy, no matter what form it takes. Capitalism is private control.
It's as simple as that.
Of course, socialists want a very narrow definition of the term so they can blame all their failures on capitalism and also so the can slip legislation past the voters that wouldn't get approved if they truly understood what it was.
So I see this has deteriorated into the usual name-calling etc... but honestly, I haven't seen any actual hard evidence of Obama doing anything to push us toward socialism.
I would say ObamaCare is the only thing that comes even close but that's just a really bad POS legislation and still leaves everything in control of the private sector.
Nothing else comes to mind.
Some of you need to go back and look up "socialism", "social democracy", "progressivism", "capitalism", "liberalism", and "conservatism."
There is a lot of wrong usage in this thread of those terms.
We are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts and our own definitions.
Obama's preferred vehicle for expanding coverage is the health insurance exchange, a market-based solution. You might recognize it from The Heritage Foundation's concept papers:
Obama's preferred vehicle for expanding coverage is the health insurance exchange, a market-based solution. You might recognize it from The Heritage Foundation's concept papers:
Obama's "health insurance exchanges" bare no resemblance to what the Heritage Foundation proposes.
As someone who'd like a little more Bernie Sanders and a little less Tim Geithner...if President Obama is a socialist...he's a sodding bad one.
Willard, Reversible Mittens, Romney just called Obama a crony capitalist the other day...so which is it?
Marx was infinitely more Christian than any CON$ervative.Which is irrefutable proof that Obama is planning to turn the US into a socialist paradise.
These are all fabrications that have been put out there in order to discourage people from meeting what I consider to be a core ethical and moral obligation: that is, that we look out for one another; that is, I am my brothers keeper, I am my sisters keeper. And in the wealthiest nation in the world right now we are neglecting to live up to that call.
- President Barack Hussein Obama, August 2009
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
Preamble
Welfare/Warfare State Constitution
Karl Marx
Founding Father
.
Acts 4:32 Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common.
4:34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold.
4:35 They laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.
(New Revised Standard version)
