President Obama DERELICT at his number 1 responsibilty

[Iriemon]

Obama made a huge blunder in allowing the release of the top secret interrogation techniques against the advise of 4 former CIA directors. This has opened a huge can of worms that will come back and discredit him as a leader. He will appear very weak on national defense which will hurt him with democrats, independents and republicans alike who supported him and voted for him.

The number one concern of this nation right now is the economy, but the very close 2nd is our national security and on both accounts he is failing this nation and failing it miserably.

You post as if you are under the impression that you have more than the tiniest speck of knowledge about that which you are commenting upon.
You do not have any knowledge or idea of what you are talking about, and that is blatantly obvious because you supply no facts,
only baseless and ignorant opinion statements.

What terrorist was "tortured" or "waterboarded" PRIOR to 9/11?

If you or Obama want to stand on the "point" that enhanced interrogation procedures only creates more terrorists--then with your superior knowledge I want YOU to name one single terrorist that was "tortured" prior to 9/11.

Out of the 3 terrorists that were actually waterboarded--I also would like you to address how "they" were able to telephone their cohurts in terror & describe their torture at the hands of the U.S. military--that would have created more terrorists, as You claim.

The fallacy of your argument is the presumption that torture is the only thing that induces people to become terrorists, of course that is not true.

 

[Lycurgus]

For water boarding or not, it doesn't matter when judging Obama on being good for national security or not. He is damaging our national security. Between his arrogant persona and his feel good, everyone love me wish, he is disclosing too many things and I am not limiting my comments to just documentation.

Anyone who has really had to enter battle and plan battle understands that you do not expose yourself as much as Obama is.

It is too early to judge him as a wartime president, but, he is making some very naive mistakes, by dragging politics this far into national security.

Oh and just for the record, the US Constitution applies to American's. People who have been granted permission to live in this nation. Extending those privileges to others is terribly wrong.

 

[Iriemon]

For water boarding or not, it doesn't matter when judging Obama on being good for national security or not. He is damaging our national security. Between his arrogant persona and his feel good, everyone love me wish, he is disclosing too many things and I am not limiting my comments to just documentation.

Anyone who has really had to enter battle and plan battle understands that you do not expose yourself as much as Obama is.

It is too early to judge him as a wartime president, but, he is making some very naive mistakes, by dragging politics this far into national security.

Oh and just for the record, the US Constitution applies to American's. People who have been granted permission to live in this nation. Extending those privileges to others is terribly wrong.

I disagree. We are in a war of ideals and ideas. American ideals of due process, human rights, democracy, freedom, equality, rule of law -- things that made America what Reagan called the shining city on the hill -- I think will win over the ideals of Islamic fundamentalism.

When we torture, and lock people away indefinitely without hearings or proof, and do things we have called others evil for doing, we blur the line between the bad guys and good guys.

We win by standing by what America stands for.

 

[Zoom-boing]

For water boarding or not, it doesn't matter when judging Obama on being good for national security or not. He is damaging our national security. Between his arrogant persona and his feel good, everyone love me wish, he is disclosing too many things and I am not limiting my comments to just documentation.

Anyone who has really had to enter battle and plan battle understands that you do not expose yourself as much as Obama is.

It is too early to judge him as a wartime president, but, he is making some very naive mistakes, by dragging politics this far into national security.

Oh and just for the record, the US Constitution applies to American's. People who have been granted permission to live in this nation. Extending those privileges to others is terribly wrong.

I disagree. We are in a war of ideals and ideas. American ideals of due process, human rights, democracy, freedom, equality, rule of law -- things that made America what Reagan called the shining city on the hill -- I think will win over the ideals of Islamic fundamentalism.

When we torture, and lock people away indefinitely without hearings or proof, and do things we have called others evil for doing, we blur the line between the bad guys and good guys.

We win by standing by what America stands for.

Wrong. It is their religion. By releasing those memos and by stating we will no longer use harsh interrogation techniques we've tipped our hand to the enemy. They now know how far we won't go. The shining city on the hill should be tough as nails against terrorism -- err, man-made disasters. But since they can't even call a spade a spade . . .

"Our religion is a religion of fear and terror to the enemies of God: the Jews, Christians and pagans. With God's willing, we are terrorists to the bone."

It also predicts that the United States "will fall, politically, militarily and economically."

"Your end is very near and your fall will be just as the fall of the towers on the blessed 9/11 day," the court filing said.

"We ask from God to accept our contributions to the great attack, the great attack on America, and to place our nineteen martyred brethren among the highest peak in paradise," the response said, in reference to the al Qaeda militants who hijacked the airplanes that crashed into the World Trade Center's twin towers in New York, the Pentagon in Washington, and a field in Pennsylvania.

Nearly 3,000 people were killed in the attacks.

Gitmo prisoners defend 'blessed' 9/11 attack - CNN.com

 

[Iriemon]

For water boarding or not, it doesn't matter when judging Obama on being good for national security or not. He is damaging our national security. Between his arrogant persona and his feel good, everyone love me wish, he is disclosing too many things and I am not limiting my comments to just documentation.

Anyone who has really had to enter battle and plan battle understands that you do not expose yourself as much as Obama is.

It is too early to judge him as a wartime president, but, he is making some very naive mistakes, by dragging politics this far into national security.

Oh and just for the record, the US Constitution applies to American's. People who have been granted permission to live in this nation. Extending those privileges to others is terribly wrong.

I disagree. We are in a war of ideals and ideas. American ideals of due process, human rights, democracy, freedom, equality, rule of law -- things that made America what Reagan called the shining city on the hill -- I think will win over the ideals of Islamic fundamentalism.

When we torture, and lock people away indefinitely without hearings or proof, and do things we have called others evil for doing, we blur the line between the bad guys and good guys.

We win by standing by what America stands for.

Wrong. It is there religion. By releasing those memos and by stating we will no longer use harsh interrogation techniques we've tipped our hand to the enemy. They now know how far we won't go. The shining city on the hill should be tough as nails against terrorism -- err, man-made disasters. But since they can't even call a spade a spade . . .

"Our religion is a religion of fear and terror to the enemies of God: the Jews, Christians and pagans. With God's willing, we are terrorists to the bone."

It also predicts that the United States "will fall, politically, militarily and economically."

"Your end is very near and your fall will be just as the fall of the towers on the blessed 9/11 day," the court filing said.

"We ask from God to accept our contributions to the great attack, the great attack on America, and to place our nineteen martyred brethren among the highest peak in paradise," the response said, in reference to the al Qaeda militants who hijacked the airplanes that crashed into the World Trade Center's twin towers in New York, the Pentagon in Washington, and a field in Pennsylvania.

Nearly 3,000 people were killed in the attacks.

Gitmo prisoners defend 'blessed' 9/11 attack - CNN.com

You are applying a logical fallacy of taking the words and acts of one (or a few) and applying them to a large group. If Islam was solely the reason, we'd have 1 billion Muslims launching themselves in suicide attacks instead of a tiny minority.

We cxan't change the minds of the hardened few that have already made the committment. But we can influence those who are target recruits for radical Islam. The radicals need these recruits to survive and continue their battle.

Torturing and denying due process to prisoners, attacking nations on pretext -- has been far more harmful that helpful to the US effort to reduce terrorism. One need only look at the number of terrorist acts and the spread of radical Islamic influences like AQ and the Taliban over the past several years.

We win the war of ideas by standing by what America stands for. Not acting like terrorists ourselves.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I disagree. We are in a war of ideals and ideas. American ideals of due process, human rights, democracy, freedom, equality, rule of law -- things that made America what Reagan called the shining city on the hill -- I think will win over the ideals of Islamic fundamentalism.

When we torture, and lock people away indefinitely without hearings or proof, and do things we have called others evil for doing, we blur the line between the bad guys and good guys.

We win by standing by what America stands for.

Wrong. It is there religion. By releasing those memos and by stating we will no longer use harsh interrogation techniques we've tipped our hand to the enemy. They now know how far we won't go. The shining city on the hill should be tough as nails against terrorism -- err, man-made disasters. But since they can't even call a spade a spade . . .

"Our religion is a religion of fear and terror to the enemies of God: the Jews, Christians and pagans. With God's willing, we are terrorists to the bone."

It also predicts that the United States "will fall, politically, militarily and economically."

"Your end is very near and your fall will be just as the fall of the towers on the blessed 9/11 day," the court filing said.

"We ask from God to accept our contributions to the great attack, the great attack on America, and to place our nineteen martyred brethren among the highest peak in paradise," the response said, in reference to the al Qaeda militants who hijacked the airplanes that crashed into the World Trade Center's twin towers in New York, the Pentagon in Washington, and a field in Pennsylvania.

Nearly 3,000 people were killed in the attacks.

Gitmo prisoners defend 'blessed' 9/11 attack - CNN.com

You are applying a logical fallacy of taking the words and acts of one (or a few) and applying them to a large group. If Islam was solely the reason, we'd have 1 billion Muslims launching themselves in suicide attacks instead of a tiny minority.

We cxan't change the minds of the hardened few that have already made the committment. But we can influence those who are target recruits for radical Islam. The radicals need these recruits to survive and continue their battle.

Torturing and denying due process to prisoners, attacking nations on pretext -- has been far more harmful that helpful to the US effort to reduce terrorism. One need only look at the number of terrorist acts and the spread of radical Islamic influences like AQ and the Taliban over the past several years.

We win the war of ideas by standing by what America stands for. Not acting like terrorists ourselves.

That's just it, it isn't a war of ideas. It is their belief, their religion and they will stop at nothing to get us. They are willing to die in order to kill us and the 'few' who have publicly stated this represent many.

Use different methods to try and deter future recruits? Absolutely. But standing firm and drawing the line stating that we will do whatever it takes to stop them and to gain the information needed in order to stop them should be part of the plan as well.

 

[Maple]

We are at war with Terrorists who have an ideology, not just an ideology. Ideology's don't by themselves run airplanes into buildings, just as a hand gun does not pick it self up and shoot someone. It takes people to do those things. 9-11 was not brought on by any torture of anyone. We were totally blinded to what was being plotted against our country because during the time that they were plotting this attack the CIA's hands were tied again. That's why we did not know and were not able to prevent them.

It is clear that we have gone back to a pre 9-11 mindset. The closing of GITMO. Eric Holder is traveling the world trying to get other countries to take these prisoners, no one, wants them. One small country, I forget the name, laughably told him that they would NEVER take these prisoners and if they are so safe now why don't we release them in our own country. 60% of the ones that have been released have joined the jihadist movement again, 2 are responsible for the killing of 50t civilians after they were released. These are NOT nice people. You are NOT going to convince them to be nice, I don't care how hard you try.

President Obama sold us down the river on this. You liberals have extremely short memories, you think that you can change the ideology of others, when there is no possiblity of doing that. You forget that these jihadists are out to murder anyone they consider an infidel, that's the rest of us.

Time will tell on this release, but I can assure you that it did not make this country safer when you have 4 former CIA directors including his current one advising against the release of these documents. To me it's an act so reprehensible that I consider it close to traitorous, and it was done by our own President.

 

[Iriemon]

Wrong. It is there religion. By releasing those memos and by stating we will no longer use harsh interrogation techniques we've tipped our hand to the enemy. They now know how far we won't go. The shining city on the hill should be tough as nails against terrorism -- err, man-made disasters. But since they can't even call a spade a spade . . .



Gitmo prisoners defend 'blessed' 9/11 attack - CNN.com

You are applying a logical fallacy of taking the words and acts of one (or a few) and applying them to a large group. If Islam was solely the reason, we'd have 1 billion Muslims launching themselves in suicide attacks instead of a tiny minority.

We cxan't change the minds of the hardened few that have already made the committment. But we can influence those who are target recruits for radical Islam. The radicals need these recruits to survive and continue their battle.

Torturing and denying due process to prisoners, attacking nations on pretext -- has been far more harmful that helpful to the US effort to reduce terrorism. One need only look at the number of terrorist acts and the spread of radical Islamic influences like AQ and the Taliban over the past several years.

We win the war of ideas by standing by what America stands for. Not acting like terrorists ourselves.

That's just it, it isn't a war of ideas. It is their belief, their religion and they will stop at nothing to get us. They are willing to die in order to kill us and the 'few' who have publicly stated this represent many.

Use different methods to try and deter future recruits? Absolutely. But standing firm and drawing the line stating that we will do whatever it takes to stop them and to gain the information needed in order to stop them should be part of the plan as well.

It absolutely is a war of ideals. It is the choice between principles that America is supposed to represent -- freedom, democracy, rule of law, etc, and the principles of radical anti-American Islam. We can kill "them" by the scores of thousands but if they have a willing pool of new recruits its not going to matter. On the other hand, if the vast majority reject the hard line radicalism of AQ, AQ ultimately cannot thrive without recruits and support.

Of course we have to do what we can to stop them. But that doesn't mean compromising our principles and acting evil because they are evil. One of the best things we can do to stop them is to decrease anti-Americanism in the region by demonstrating by act as well as word that the principles we stand for are principles that matter and that we stand by.

 

[Iriemon]

We are at war with Terrorists who have an ideology, not just an ideology. Ideology's don't by themselves run airplanes into buildings, just as a hand gun does not pick it self up and shoot someone. It takes people to do those things. 9-11 was not brought on by any torture of anyone. We were totally blinded to what was being plotted against our country because during the time that they were plotting this attack the CIA's hands were tied again. That's why we did not know and were not able to prevent them.

That is not quite true -- obviously the CIA had intellegence because it warned that AQ was planning to hijack plans and bomb buildings in NY just a month before 9-11.

But I agree that intellegence is an area that needed to be improved. That doesn't require adoption of gestapo type tactics, however.

It is clear that we have gone back to a pre 9-11 mindset. The closing of GITMO. Eric Holder is traveling the world trying to get other countries to take these prisoners, no one, wants them. One small country, I forget the name, laughably told him that they would NEVER take these prisoners and if they are so safe now why don't we release them in our own country. 60% of the ones that have been released have joined the jihadist movement again, 2 are responsible for the killing of 50t civilians after they were released. These are NOT nice people. You are NOT going to convince them to be nice, I don't care how hard you try.

I have never supported freeing them. Try them, convict them, and then hang them for all I care. That's the American way. Not locking folks away forever without hearings or trials to prove their guilt.

President Obama sold us down the river on this. You liberals have extremely short memories, you think that you can change the ideology of others, when there is no possiblity of doing that. You forget that these jihadists are out to murder anyone they consider an infidel, that's the rest of us.

Time will tell on this release, but I can assure you that it did not make this country safer when you have 4 former CIA directors including his current one advising against the release of these documents. To me it's an act so reprehensible that I consider it close to traitorous, and it was done by our own President.

Obama has restored our committment to American principles. You are right, it may create a little more risk -- freedom isn't free. But I applaud him and he is moving America in the right direction by standing by our principles. There is a reason AQ leaders and concerned about Obama's popularity. It cuts to the heart of their lifeblood - anti-American hatred.

 

[WillowTree]

Wrong. It is there religion. By releasing those memos and by stating we will no longer use harsh interrogation techniques we've tipped our hand to the enemy. They now know how far we won't go. The shining city on the hill should be tough as nails against terrorism -- err, man-made disasters. But since they can't even call a spade a spade . . .



Gitmo prisoners defend 'blessed' 9/11 attack - CNN.com

You are applying a logical fallacy of taking the words and acts of one (or a few) and applying them to a large group. If Islam was solely the reason, we'd have 1 billion Muslims launching themselves in suicide attacks instead of a tiny minority.

We cxan't change the minds of the hardened few that have already made the committment. But we can influence those who are target recruits for radical Islam. The radicals need these recruits to survive and continue their battle.

Torturing and denying due process to prisoners, attacking nations on pretext -- has been far more harmful that helpful to the US effort to reduce terrorism. One need only look at the number of terrorist acts and the spread of radical Islamic influences like AQ and the Taliban over the past several years.

We win the war of ideas by standing by what America stands for. Not acting like terrorists ourselves.

That's just it, it isn't a war of ideas. It is their belief, their religion and they will stop at nothing to get us. They are willing to die in order to kill us and the 'few' who have publicly stated this represent many.

Use different methods to try and deter future recruits? Absolutely. But standing firm and drawing the line stating that we will do whatever it takes to stop them and to gain the information needed in order to stop them should be part of the plan as well.

Yes Zommie it is.. it's their ideal to kill us all and it's our ideal to stop them.. if we have to half drown them then that's what we have to do.. It's survival of the fittest and democwats aren't fit, they are all mouth! they'd talk yer azz to death and tell you it wasn't torture!

 

[Maple]

Have you ever told someone a secret only to find out that the person you told it to, broadcast it everywhere? Did you trust that person again with any information? That's what's happened here. Not only did he tie the hands of our own CIA he effectively tied the hands of all the operatives from all over the world by doing this. No country is going to release information to us that they know of because they are afraid that Obama will release this information and by doing so expose their operations.They have terrorist problems too in case you liberals did not notice.

He did this only to appease the extreme left wing kooks in his party, but what he does not seem to be aware of is that they represent less than 5% of the vote. He has angered millions of his own voters by doing this. This will continue to be headline news as those extreme lefties are not going to let a good investigation go untouched, they want their mugs on TV.

I am all for transperancy, but not in regard to national security. I thought the transperancy Obama was talking about was to allow us to read the stimulus bill before he signed it. He didn't give the congress and the senate time to read the bill, let alone the American public before it was passed.

YOU DO NOT USE THE GUISE OF TRANSPERANCY TO DENEGRATE OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.
Our allies are probably getting a good laugh at all of this calling Obama the BIG MOUTH.

 

[WillowTree]

Have you ever told someone a secret only to find out that the person you told it to, broadcast it everywhere? Did you trust that person again with any information? That's what's happened here. Not only did he tie the hands of our own CIA he effectively tied the hands of all the operatives from all over the world by doing this. No country is going to release information to us that they know of because they are afraid that Obama will release this information and by doing so expose their operations.They have terrorist problems too in case you liberals did not notice.

He did this only to appease the extreme left wing kooks in his party, but what he does not seem to be aware of is that they represent less than 5% of the vote. He has angered millions of his own voters by doing this. This will continue to be headline news as those extreme lefties are not going to let a good investigation go untouched, they want their mugs on TV.

I am all for transperancy, but not in regard to national security. I thought the transperancy Obama was talking about was to allow us to read the stimulus bill before he signed it. He didn't give the congress and the senate time to read the bill, let alone the American public before it was passed.

YOU DO NOT USE THE GUISE OF TRANSPERANCY TO DENEGRATE OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.
Our allies are probably getting a good laugh at all of this calling Obama the BIG MOUTH.

 

[Iriemon]

Have you ever told someone a secret only to find out that the person you told it to, broadcast it everywhere? Did you trust that person again with any information? That's what's happened here. Not only did he tie the hands of our own CIA he effectively tied the hands of all the operatives from all over the world by doing this. No country is going to release information to us that they know of because they are afraid that Obama will release this information and by doing so expose their operations.They have terrorist problems too in case you liberals did not notice.

He did this only to appease the extreme left wing kooks in his party, but what he does not seem to be aware of is that they represent less than 5% of the vote. He has angered millions of his own voters by doing this. This will continue to be headline news as those extreme lefties are not going to let a good investigation go untouched, they want their mugs on TV.

I am all for transperancy, but not in regard to national security. I thought the transperancy Obama was talking about was to allow us to read the stimulus bill before he signed it. He didn't give the congress and the senate time to read the bill, let alone the American public before it was passed.

YOU DO NOT USE THE GUISE OF TRANSPERANCY TO DENEGRATE OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.
Our allies are probably getting a good laugh at all of this calling Obama the BIG MOUTH.

He only tied the hands of those who want to torture folks. Which would only be a problem for those who believe America should embrace torture as a tactic.

 

[Maple]

Bob Beckel just looked that a major idiot on FOX news, he is backing off this hoping that we can move on. Yeah sure. Telling the nation that Obama caved to the ALCU, the most liberal organization in the entire world. what a whimp of a president. He stated, " That these documents were going to be released anyways so the President thought he would just jump the gun and get it over with. Cheney wants the rest released and the administration is going to take 3 weeks to decide. Guess what you libs, this ain't going away, this has angered millions and it will be the topic of discussion for the next 3 1/2 years. THIS WILL DERAIL HIS AGENDA.

Obama just killed any chance for a second term because Americans value the safety of their nation and their children, I don't care what party affiliation you belong to.

 

[Iriemon]

Bob Beckel just looked that a major idiot on FOX news, he is backing off this hoping that we can move on. Yeah sure. Telling the nation that Obama caved to the ALCU, the most liberal organization in the entire world. what a whimp of a president. He stated, " That these documents were going to be released anyways so the President thought he would just jump the gun and get it over with. Cheney wants the rest released and the administration is going to take 3 weeks to decide. Guess what you libs, this ain't going away, this has angered millions and it will be the topic of discussion for the next 3 1/2 years. THIS WILL DERAIL HIS AGENDA.

Obama just killed any chance for a second term because Americans value the safety of their nation and their children, I don't care what party affiliation you belong to.

You could be right, a majority of Americans might very well be willing for our Govt to engage in torture these days. I haven't seen polls on it.

 

[txlonghorn]

So let me see if I understand the logic being thrown around here...

Some of you say that it's useless to interrogate anyone because it doesn't work ( which has already been proven that it does ) and makes us look like a mean and ugly nation...that we should be nice and kind and gentle in hopes that our new found moral standards will somehow keep those who have demonstrated hatred for us for decades to not kill us anymore. How am I doing so far?

We should back the leader of the free world who now has positioned us as an even larger target with no ability to fight back. No ability to thwart attacks. No sense of national pride. No moral obligation to it's own people. The only obligation we hold fast to as of now is to the world. US citizens be damned. Because we have been such a horrible nation for so long, we must now lay down our weapons and accept the beating we deserve and take it with dignity. And, from this, we shall rise up years later, a more understanding and less evil nation with only good will for all and from all.

So, here's the logic I see here...( I use the term VERY lightly ) while we're at it, let's take all the guns from the police. No more tazers, no more night sticks, no more pepper spray, no more riot gear...and for GOD'S SAKE!!! NO MORE LOCK UP...Let's open all the jails that house the killers, rapists, robbers and psychos and let's just be nice to them and hope that they will be nice back and stop killing and raping and robbing and taking our children. Sounds like a wonderful utopia to me.

 

[Iriemon]

So let me see if I understand the logic being thrown around here...

Some of you say that it's useless to interrogate anyone because it doesn't work ( which has already been proven that it does ) and makes us look like a mean and ugly nation...

I haven't seen one person say that. Cite to who said that?

that we should be nice and kind and gentle in hopes that our new found moral standards will somehow keep those who have demonstrated hatred for us for decades to not kill us anymore. How am I doing so far?

American principles against torture are not new. The eighth amendment was passed in the 18th century.

We should back the leader of the free world who now has positioned us as an even larger target with no ability to fight back. No ability to thwart attacks. No sense of national pride. No moral obligation to it's own people. The only obligation we hold fast to as of now is to the world. US citizens be damned. Because we have been such a horrible nation for so long, we must now lay down our weapons and accept the beating we deserve and take it with dignity. And, from this, we shall rise up years later, a more understanding and less evil nation with only good will for all and from all.

So, here's the logic I see here...( I use the term VERY lightly ) while we're at it, let's take all the guns from the police. No more tazers, no more night sticks, no more pepper spray, no more riot gear...and for GOD'S SAKE!!! NO MORE LOCK UP...Let's open all the jails that house the killers, rapists, robbers and psychos and let's just be nice to them and hope that they will be nice back and stop killing and raping and robbing and taking our children. Sounds like a wonderful utopia to me.

I haven't seen anyone suggest the extreme changes you refer to.

 

[oreo]

Interviewed a retired CIA director, forgot his name, but he is flaming mad about Obama releasing the TOP SECRET documents on interogation techniques and stated that we are much less safe because of him doing that.

He stated that it is akin to asking our soldiers to fight a war in a certain country and then when the next administration comes in to prosecute the soldiers for following orders. He was firm and resolved about the fact that Obama has now tied the CIA's hands and that they will no longer do the things that need to be done to keep this country safe. He was resolute when he stated that this will cause more terrorism not less and that Americans are much less safe.

He was disgusted that the Commander in Chief, POLITICIZED NATIONAL SECURITY AND THAT HE HAS NOW PUT AMERICANS AT RISK.

What an absolute idiot this President is turning out to be, in less than 100 days he has outspent president Bush's 8 years and undone many of the things that kept this country safe from another attack. I do not feel safer and this is not going to dissapear, Obama will rue the day that he felt it necessary to go against the experts in this field and ignore his own director of the CIA.

US Army Counter Insurgency Field Manual:

Abuse of detained persons is immoral, illegal, and unprofessional.

Those who engage in cruel or inhuman treatment of prisoners betray the standards of the profession of arms and U.S. laws. They are subject to punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The Geneva Conventions, as well as the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, agree on unacceptable interrogating techniques.

Torture and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment is never a morally permissible option, even if lives depend on gaining information.

No exceptional circumstances permit the use of torture and other cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. Only personnel trained and certified to interrogate can conduct interrogations. They use legal, approved methods of convincing enemy prisoners of war and detainees to give their cooperation. Interrogation sources are detainees, including enemy prisoners of war


7-44. To the extent that the work of interrogators is indispensable to fulfilling the state's obligation to secure its citizens' lives and liberties, conducting interrogations is a moral obligation. The methods used, however, must reflect the Nation's commitment to human dignity and international humanitarian law. A commander's need for information remains valid and can be met while observing relevant regulations and ethical standards. Acting morally does not necessarily mean that leaders give up obtaining critical information. Acting morally does mean that leaders must relinquish certain methods of obtaining information, even if that decision requires Soldiers and Marines to take greater risk.


Lose Moral Legitimacy, Lose the War


During the Algerian war of independence between 1954 and 1962, French leaders decided to permit torture against suspected insurgents. Though they were aware that it was against the law and morality of war, they argued that-

This was a new form of war and these rules did not apply.
The threat the enemy represented, communism, was a great evil that justified extraordinary means.
The application of torture against insurgents was measured and nongratuitous.

This official condoning of torture on the part of French Army leadership had several negative consequences. It empowered the moral legitimacy of the opposition, undermined the French moral legitimacy, and caused internal fragmentation among serving officers that led to an unsuccessful coup attempt in 1962. In the end, failure to comply with moral and legal restrictions against torture severely undermined French efforts and contributed to their loss despite several significant military victories. Illegal and immoral activities made the counterinsurgents extremely vulnerable to enemy propaganda inside Algeria among the Muslim population, as well as in the United Nations and the French media. These actions also degraded the ethical climate throughout the French Army. France eventually recognized Algerian independence in July 1963.


US Army Counter Insurgency Manual, Chapter 7, Sections 7-42 to 7-44

So now we're going to give top interrogation officers of the CIA & all other intelligence agencies the "field manual" that are given to U.S. soldiers just "out of boot camp" suggestions on how to interogate top level operatives of Al Queda. YEP--you bet. "The army field manual." In case you didn't know CIA interrogation officials--are not in the field--in uniform--directly fighting with the enemy. They are experts at what they do--"interrogation".

Then the audacity to compare the French & their torture to waterboarding.

You liberals still do not seem to understand--this is no enemy like we have ever gone to war with before. They blow up their own kids----"what enemy in history has ever done that?

So again--with your "superior" knowledge--let us know what terrorist was EVER tortured prior to 9/11--by the CIA or any other American intelligence agency?

 

[oreo]

So let me see if I understand the logic being thrown around here...

Some of you say that it's useless to interrogate anyone because it doesn't work ( which has already been proven that it does ) and makes us look like a mean and ugly nation...

I haven't seen one person say that. Cite to who said that?

that we should be nice and kind and gentle in hopes that our new found moral standards will somehow keep those who have demonstrated hatred for us for decades to not kill us anymore. How am I doing so far?

American principles against torture are not new. The eighth amendment was passed in the 18th century.

We should back the leader of the free world who now has positioned us as an even larger target with no ability to fight back. No ability to thwart attacks. No sense of national pride. No moral obligation to it's own people. The only obligation we hold fast to as of now is to the world. US citizens be damned. Because we have been such a horrible nation for so long, we must now lay down our weapons and accept the beating we deserve and take it with dignity. And, from this, we shall rise up years later, a more understanding and less evil nation with only good will for all and from all.

So, here's the logic I see here...( I use the term VERY lightly ) while we're at it, let's take all the guns from the police. No more tazers, no more night sticks, no more pepper spray, no more riot gear...and for GOD'S SAKE!!! NO MORE LOCK UP...Let's open all the jails that house the killers, rapists, robbers and psychos and let's just be nice to them and hope that they will be nice back and stop killing and raping and robbing and taking our children. Sounds like a wonderful utopia to me.

I haven't seen anyone suggest the extreme changes you refer to.

That's a crock--for years liberals have stated that the "enhanced interrogations technics", do not work.

Liberals have claimed: "They'll just tell you anything they think you want to hear."

YOU WERE WRONG. And you're wrong about waterboarding. Here we have a technic that WORKS--it has been proven to work. It takes a couple of seconds--with no "physical" arm to that terrorist you're trying to protect.

Do you know how the "enhanced interrogations came into play in the first place"? They used it on our TOUGHEST U.S. special forces--that are trained to resist interrogations. They then adopted those procedures--because they work, & they work quickly, with no physical harm.

 

[txlonghorn]

So let me see if I understand the logic being thrown around here...

Some of you say that it's useless to interrogate anyone because it doesn't work ( which has already been proven that it does ) and makes us look like a mean and ugly nation...

I haven't seen one person say that. Cite to who said that?

THIS IS STATED VERY CLEARLY IN THE FIRST FEW REPLIES ON THIS THREAD.

that we should be nice and kind and gentle in hopes that our new found moral standards will somehow keep those who have demonstrated hatred for us for decades to not kill us anymore. How am I doing so far?

American principles against torture are not new. The eighth amendment was passed in the 18th century.

We should back the leader of the free world who now has positioned us as an even larger target with no ability to fight back. No ability to thwart attacks. No sense of national pride. No moral obligation to it's own people. The only obligation we hold fast to as of now is to the world. US citizens be damned. Because we have been such a horrible nation for so long, we must now lay down our weapons and accept the beating we deserve and take it with dignity. And, from this, we shall rise up years later, a more understanding and less evil nation with only good will for all and from all.

So, here's the logic I see here...( I use the term VERY lightly ) while we're at it, let's take all the guns from the police. No more tazers, no more night sticks, no more pepper spray, no more riot gear...and for GOD'S SAKE!!! NO MORE LOCK UP...Let's open all the jails that house the killers, rapists, robbers and psychos and let's just be nice to them and hope that they will be nice back and stop killing and raping and robbing and taking our children. Sounds like a wonderful utopia to me.

I haven't seen anyone suggest the extreme changes you refer to.

Which extreme changes are you referring to? Disarming the police or disarming the country?