President-"Elect" Joe Biden!

candycorn

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Any taxpayers we need to pay more in taxes because the interest is so high we can’t chip away at the debt. A lose lose proposition.
But you're discounting the commissions are taxable on what Lucy is buying.
 

ThisIsMe

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
He can just divert money from Defense to pay for it.

Presidents can do that, right?
not if it doesnt have to do with national defense,,,
Crushing debt is a national security issue.... Much more so if a landscaper is crossing the border to cut grass.
If has nothing to do with national defense, you are stretching and the Supreme Court would vote against it. As Trump found out, just because you are President, it doesn’t mean you can do what you please. Thank goodness for the three branches.
Neither does the wall...
So two wrongs make a right?
Never.

But we'll wait for the next Republican to adhere to that principle. You good with that?
I’m not fine with that, being stupid is never a great idea to act stupid, in fact it is dangerous. Look at all the damn executive orders by the last several Presidents. Look at our debt issues. Watch Republicans become deficit hawks now. They should have been that way for decades and when events like 911 and the Covid-19 come around we have room to go into debt. Stupid, moronic, partisan politics is what is getting us into trouble and stupid, morons supporting such stupidity is just adding to the problems. We are digging our own grave. Time for this to stop and turn around. I really hate partisan Republicans and Democrats.
It would be great if we could change the rules so such shenanigans would not happen any more.
The rules are there, they aren’t enforced. This is allowing the rules to be stretched, just like you are wanting to do with the defense money. It should not be allowed nor should money allocated for other projects not have been allowed for the wall. Biden should not have EO’d the Dream Act, nor should SSI money be diverted to other funds. There are laws in place but we see no enforcement, we see justification.

We need Republicans and Democrats stand up for the three branches of government. That is why I hate both parties, they put politics over party.
When the Excecutive (the branch that is supposed to enforce the rules) is the one that breaks the rules....
what rule was broken???
Congress allocated money to programs listed on a bill it voted on.
Not to build a silly wall with that money.
but its POTUS job to determine national security issues,,,

sorry but you failed again,,,
And Biden can make that determination....massive debt is a national security issue.

Welcome back to square one. Hope you enjoyed your ride.
private debt isnt a governmental issue,,,
Usually the government backs guaranteed student loans:

It doesn’t mean the government pays them. It usually means, if you default the government goes after you to collect
Hence the national emergency....trillions in outstanding debt to collect potentially.

Hey, I think it's BS too...

BUT if we allow Presidents to deem what is and isn't an emergency and shift congressionally allocated monies around based on it....as the blob did....this is what we have to face.
private debt isnt a governmental issue,,,

why is that so hard to understand,,,
Its guaranteed by the government....not sure why you can't understand that. Thus it's a pending national emergency....Biden should act. Erase it all. put $1.7 T back into the economy where it can create jobs and wealth instead of just giving it to the banks. LOL

they didnt have authority to do it in the first place ,,,
and how does that put it back into the economy when its erased from the ledgers???
I'm your bank. I lend you $10. You have to pay me back. I say forget it. Instead of paying me back, you buy a pizza. The Government gives me the $10.00 instead. You have a pizza and I have $10.00.
That doesn't work though. If the government gives you $10, then that just adds another $10 to the debt, and creates a need to raise taxes more on the citizens to pay it back.

Remember, the government neither owns, nor creates money, nor has any wealth. Every dime the government spends comes from taxpayers, in the form of IOU's the government takes from the federal reserve, with interest attached.

So, if the government forgives 1.7 trillion in student debt, that means it takes taxpayer money and gives it to someone else.

What do I get out of this? Where is MY benefit for helping to pay off peoples student loans? In fact, if the government is going to hand out tens of thousands of dollars to people, I want my money too. Sure, I dont have student loans, but that doesn't matter. Why should someone else be entitled to free money and not me?
You're right. It adds to the debt. But, as my republican friends will tell you....that $10 spent on Pizza buys more equipment for the restaurant, increases their revenue, they buy more from the flour supplier, the pepperoni supplier, the box makers, etc.... Who buy more grain from the farmers, pulp from the wood mill to make boxes, etc...

At least that is the story we're told. Revenues increase!
Sure, all that can happen, but then they have to pay more in taxes because of the added debt. So, you get benefit on the front end, but then that benefit is negated on the back end.

Also, it doesn't answer the question of how that benefits me? Sure, the pizza place benefits, and the student who no longer has $80,000 of debt to pay surely benefits, but that doesn't benefit me.

Again, if the government is going to start giving people $80,000, i want my check too.
Yeah...paying it off on the other end is someone else's problem though. That is the system we've had in place since the 1980's...

How does it benefit you? Instead of Lucy having to spend $180 a month on debt service, she's buying a stereo you're selling her or a home you're selling her or a car you've sold her. Or she's eating at your restaurant, getting her hair done at your salon or attending one of your concerts. Or she's able to volunteer in her community instead of working two jobs or spend more time creating art that you may like and purchase yourself.
Again, those things don't benefit me. They might benefit the company I work for, but at the end of the day, it mostly benefits the student.

I mean, if we are going to go by your example, then if the government hands me a check for $80,000, the i too can use that money to buy things and help stimulate the economy, or the government can pay off my home loan, and i can spend that money to buy pizzas and other stuff.

Again, if forgiveness of loans helps the economy, then why not just forgive all loans?
 

Papageorgio

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We aren’t dealing with pizza’s we are dealing with loans. So when you payoff a loan, it doesn’t generate revenue at all.
The money that was going to pay back the loan went to pizza instead. I thought that much was clear.
Then let’s give every American $80000 and we can then sell more pizza!
 

progressive hunter

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
He can just divert money from Defense to pay for it.

Presidents can do that, right?
not if it doesnt have to do with national defense,,,
Here’s the problem: the unwitting consequence of Trump’s four years of reckless, irresponsible, and lawless behavior is the creation of several precedents future presidents may very well cite to justify their similar actions.

That’s just some of the irreparable damage Trump has caused the nation.
clyton we both know precedent and case law doesnt apply in constitutional issues,,,
You can be guaranteed that a future Republican president will cite Trump’s reckless, irresponsible, and lawless acts to ‘justify’ doing the same.
and yet none of those can be proven,,,
 

ThisIsMe

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Papageorgio

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Any taxpayers we need to pay more in taxes because the interest is so high we can’t chip away at the debt. A lose lose proposition.
But you're discounting the commissions are taxable on what Lucy is buying.
Again, taxing every American 100% of their income will not touch the debt, just part of the interest.
 

candycorn

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
He can just divert money from Defense to pay for it.

Presidents can do that, right?
not if it doesnt have to do with national defense,,,
Crushing debt is a national security issue.... Much more so if a landscaper is crossing the border to cut grass.
If has nothing to do with national defense, you are stretching and the Supreme Court would vote against it. As Trump found out, just because you are President, it doesn’t mean you can do what you please. Thank goodness for the three branches.
Neither does the wall...
So two wrongs make a right?
Never.

But we'll wait for the next Republican to adhere to that principle. You good with that?
I’m not fine with that, being stupid is never a great idea to act stupid, in fact it is dangerous. Look at all the damn executive orders by the last several Presidents. Look at our debt issues. Watch Republicans become deficit hawks now. They should have been that way for decades and when events like 911 and the Covid-19 come around we have room to go into debt. Stupid, moronic, partisan politics is what is getting us into trouble and stupid, morons supporting such stupidity is just adding to the problems. We are digging our own grave. Time for this to stop and turn around. I really hate partisan Republicans and Democrats.
It would be great if we could change the rules so such shenanigans would not happen any more.
The rules are there, they aren’t enforced. This is allowing the rules to be stretched, just like you are wanting to do with the defense money. It should not be allowed nor should money allocated for other projects not have been allowed for the wall. Biden should not have EO’d the Dream Act, nor should SSI money be diverted to other funds. There are laws in place but we see no enforcement, we see justification.

We need Republicans and Democrats stand up for the three branches of government. That is why I hate both parties, they put politics over party.
When the Excecutive (the branch that is supposed to enforce the rules) is the one that breaks the rules....
what rule was broken???
Congress allocated money to programs listed on a bill it voted on.
Not to build a silly wall with that money.
but its POTUS job to determine national security issues,,,

sorry but you failed again,,,
And Biden can make that determination....massive debt is a national security issue.

Welcome back to square one. Hope you enjoyed your ride.
private debt isnt a governmental issue,,,
Usually the government backs guaranteed student loans:

It doesn’t mean the government pays them. It usually means, if you default the government goes after you to collect
Hence the national emergency....trillions in outstanding debt to collect potentially.

Hey, I think it's BS too...

BUT if we allow Presidents to deem what is and isn't an emergency and shift congressionally allocated monies around based on it....as the blob did....this is what we have to face.
private debt isnt a governmental issue,,,

why is that so hard to understand,,,
Its guaranteed by the government....not sure why you can't understand that. Thus it's a pending national emergency....Biden should act. Erase it all. put $1.7 T back into the economy where it can create jobs and wealth instead of just giving it to the banks. LOL

they didnt have authority to do it in the first place ,,,
and how does that put it back into the economy when its erased from the ledgers???
I'm your bank. I lend you $10. You have to pay me back. I say forget it. Instead of paying me back, you buy a pizza. The Government gives me the $10.00 instead. You have a pizza and I have $10.00.
That doesn't work though. If the government gives you $10, then that just adds another $10 to the debt, and creates a need to raise taxes more on the citizens to pay it back.

Remember, the government neither owns, nor creates money, nor has any wealth. Every dime the government spends comes from taxpayers, in the form of IOU's the government takes from the federal reserve, with interest attached.

So, if the government forgives 1.7 trillion in student debt, that means it takes taxpayer money and gives it to someone else.

What do I get out of this? Where is MY benefit for helping to pay off peoples student loans? In fact, if the government is going to hand out tens of thousands of dollars to people, I want my money too. Sure, I dont have student loans, but that doesn't matter. Why should someone else be entitled to free money and not me?
You're right. It adds to the debt. But, as my republican friends will tell you....that $10 spent on Pizza buys more equipment for the restaurant, increases their revenue, they buy more from the flour supplier, the pepperoni supplier, the box makers, etc.... Who buy more grain from the farmers, pulp from the wood mill to make boxes, etc...

At least that is the story we're told. Revenues increase!
Sure, all that can happen, but then they have to pay more in taxes because of the added debt. So, you get benefit on the front end, but then that benefit is negated on the back end.

Also, it doesn't answer the question of how that benefits me? Sure, the pizza place benefits, and the student who no longer has $80,000 of debt to pay surely benefits, but that doesn't benefit me.

Again, if the government is going to start giving people $80,000, i want my check too.
Yeah...paying it off on the other end is someone else's problem though. That is the system we've had in place since the 1980's...

How does it benefit you? Instead of Lucy having to spend $180 a month on debt service, she's buying a stereo you're selling her or a home you're selling her or a car you've sold her. Or she's eating at your restaurant, getting her hair done at your salon or attending one of your concerts. Or she's able to volunteer in her community instead of working two jobs or spend more time creating art that you may like and purchase yourself.
Again, those things don't benefit me. They might benefit the company I work for, but at the end of the day, it mostly benefits the student.

I mean, if we are going to go by your example, then if the government hands me a check for $80,000, the i too can use that money to buy things and help stimulate the economy, or the government can pay off my home loan, and i can spend that money to buy pizzas and other stuff.

Again, if forgiveness of loans helps the economy, then why not just forgive all loans?
You make a good point. I would argue though that your loan to buy a new bass boat and the loan someone took out to go to college and become the next business owner, nurse, doctor, pharmacist, entrepreneur are different things. The benefit to the student has a bigger impact than the bass boat transaction.
 

candycorn

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We aren’t dealing with pizza’s we are dealing with loans. So when you payoff a loan, it doesn’t generate revenue at all.
The money that was going to pay back the loan went to pizza instead. I thought that much was clear.
Then let’s give every American $80000 and we can then sell more pizza!
Sure. Why not? INstead of $2.2T for loans that went to NBA franchises, direct payments to Americans was a better idea
 

ThisIsMe

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
He can just divert money from Defense to pay for it.

Presidents can do that, right?
not if it doesnt have to do with national defense,,,
Crushing debt is a national security issue.... Much more so if a landscaper is crossing the border to cut grass.
If has nothing to do with national defense, you are stretching and the Supreme Court would vote against it. As Trump found out, just because you are President, it doesn’t mean you can do what you please. Thank goodness for the three branches.
Neither does the wall...
So two wrongs make a right?
Never.

But we'll wait for the next Republican to adhere to that principle. You good with that?
I’m not fine with that, being stupid is never a great idea to act stupid, in fact it is dangerous. Look at all the damn executive orders by the last several Presidents. Look at our debt issues. Watch Republicans become deficit hawks now. They should have been that way for decades and when events like 911 and the Covid-19 come around we have room to go into debt. Stupid, moronic, partisan politics is what is getting us into trouble and stupid, morons supporting such stupidity is just adding to the problems. We are digging our own grave. Time for this to stop and turn around. I really hate partisan Republicans and Democrats.
It would be great if we could change the rules so such shenanigans would not happen any more.
The rules are there, they aren’t enforced. This is allowing the rules to be stretched, just like you are wanting to do with the defense money. It should not be allowed nor should money allocated for other projects not have been allowed for the wall. Biden should not have EO’d the Dream Act, nor should SSI money be diverted to other funds. There are laws in place but we see no enforcement, we see justification.

We need Republicans and Democrats stand up for the three branches of government. That is why I hate both parties, they put politics over party.
When the Excecutive (the branch that is supposed to enforce the rules) is the one that breaks the rules....
what rule was broken???
Congress allocated money to programs listed on a bill it voted on.
Not to build a silly wall with that money.
but its POTUS job to determine national security issues,,,

sorry but you failed again,,,
And Biden can make that determination....massive debt is a national security issue.

Welcome back to square one. Hope you enjoyed your ride.
private debt isnt a governmental issue,,,
Usually the government backs guaranteed student loans:

It doesn’t mean the government pays them. It usually means, if you default the government goes after you to collect
Hence the national emergency....trillions in outstanding debt to collect potentially.

Hey, I think it's BS too...

BUT if we allow Presidents to deem what is and isn't an emergency and shift congressionally allocated monies around based on it....as the blob did....this is what we have to face.
private debt isnt a governmental issue,,,

why is that so hard to understand,,,
Its guaranteed by the government....not sure why you can't understand that. Thus it's a pending national emergency....Biden should act. Erase it all. put $1.7 T back into the economy where it can create jobs and wealth instead of just giving it to the banks. LOL

they didnt have authority to do it in the first place ,,,
and how does that put it back into the economy when its erased from the ledgers???
I'm your bank. I lend you $10. You have to pay me back. I say forget it. Instead of paying me back, you buy a pizza. The Government gives me the $10.00 instead. You have a pizza and I have $10.00.
That doesn't work though. If the government gives you $10, then that just adds another $10 to the debt, and creates a need to raise taxes more on the citizens to pay it back.

Remember, the government neither owns, nor creates money, nor has any wealth. Every dime the government spends comes from taxpayers, in the form of IOU's the government takes from the federal reserve, with interest attached.

So, if the government forgives 1.7 trillion in student debt, that means it takes taxpayer money and gives it to someone else.

What do I get out of this? Where is MY benefit for helping to pay off peoples student loans? In fact, if the government is going to hand out tens of thousands of dollars to people, I want my money too. Sure, I dont have student loans, but that doesn't matter. Why should someone else be entitled to free money and not me?
You're right. It adds to the debt. But, as my republican friends will tell you....that $10 spent on Pizza buys more equipment for the restaurant, increases their revenue, they buy more from the flour supplier, the pepperoni supplier, the box makers, etc.... Who buy more grain from the farmers, pulp from the wood mill to make boxes, etc...

At least that is the story we're told. Revenues increase!
Sure, all that can happen, but then they have to pay more in taxes because of the added debt. So, you get benefit on the front end, but then that benefit is negated on the back end.

Also, it doesn't answer the question of how that benefits me? Sure, the pizza place benefits, and the student who no longer has $80,000 of debt to pay surely benefits, but that doesn't benefit me.

Again, if the government is going to start giving people $80,000, i want my check too.
Yeah...paying it off on the other end is someone else's problem though. That is the system we've had in place since the 1980's...

How does it benefit you? Instead of Lucy having to spend $180 a month on debt service, she's buying a stereo you're selling her or a home you're selling her or a car you've sold her. Or she's eating at your restaurant, getting her hair done at your salon or attending one of your concerts. Or she's able to volunteer in her community instead of working two jobs or spend more time creating art that you may like and purchase yourself.
Again, those things don't benefit me. They might benefit the company I work for, but at the end of the day, it mostly benefits the student.

I mean, if we are going to go by your example, then if the government hands me a check for $80,000, the i too can use that money to buy things and help stimulate the economy, or the government can pay off my home loan, and i can spend that money to buy pizzas and other stuff.

Again, if forgiveness of loans helps the economy, then why not just forgive all loans?
You make a good point. I would argue though that your loan to buy a new bass boat and the loan someone took out to go to college and become the next business owner, nurse, doctor, pharmacist, entrepreneur are different things. The benefit to the student has a bigger impact than the bass boat transaction.
How so? Its not about what the money is used for. It doesn't matter if one person uses the money for a boat and the other uses it for college.

Let's say, for example, in your boat scenario, if that guy started working right out of high school, and over the course of 20 years, managed to work his way up to a job that pays him 70K ler year, or, you have the young guy who just graduated college with $50,000 of student loan debt. Now, its said, on average, that college graduates will generally make more money over the course of a lifetime, and depending on your major, you could make more money right off the bat.

So, let's say college guy graduates with a degree that lands him in a job that pays him 70K to start. Now you are going to give that guy who's going to make more money a free college education to boot, but the guy that had to claw his way to good money still has to pay for the boat.

I'd argue, in that situation, the loan forgiveness would actually help the boat guy more, as the college guy will likely have higher average wage over the course of his life.

Not to mention, its simply not the responsibility of the citizen to provide free stuff to anyone. If person A takes out a loan to buy a boat, and person B takes out a loan to further his future, both should be responsible for the debt they incur.
 

candycorn

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
He can just divert money from Defense to pay for it.

Presidents can do that, right?
not if it doesnt have to do with national defense,,,
Crushing debt is a national security issue.... Much more so if a landscaper is crossing the border to cut grass.
If has nothing to do with national defense, you are stretching and the Supreme Court would vote against it. As Trump found out, just because you are President, it doesn’t mean you can do what you please. Thank goodness for the three branches.
Neither does the wall...
So two wrongs make a right?
Never.

But we'll wait for the next Republican to adhere to that principle. You good with that?
I’m not fine with that, being stupid is never a great idea to act stupid, in fact it is dangerous. Look at all the damn executive orders by the last several Presidents. Look at our debt issues. Watch Republicans become deficit hawks now. They should have been that way for decades and when events like 911 and the Covid-19 come around we have room to go into debt. Stupid, moronic, partisan politics is what is getting us into trouble and stupid, morons supporting such stupidity is just adding to the problems. We are digging our own grave. Time for this to stop and turn around. I really hate partisan Republicans and Democrats.
It would be great if we could change the rules so such shenanigans would not happen any more.
The rules are there, they aren’t enforced. This is allowing the rules to be stretched, just like you are wanting to do with the defense money. It should not be allowed nor should money allocated for other projects not have been allowed for the wall. Biden should not have EO’d the Dream Act, nor should SSI money be diverted to other funds. There are laws in place but we see no enforcement, we see justification.

We need Republicans and Democrats stand up for the three branches of government. That is why I hate both parties, they put politics over party.
When the Excecutive (the branch that is supposed to enforce the rules) is the one that breaks the rules....
what rule was broken???
Congress allocated money to programs listed on a bill it voted on.
Not to build a silly wall with that money.
but its POTUS job to determine national security issues,,,

sorry but you failed again,,,
And Biden can make that determination....massive debt is a national security issue.

Welcome back to square one. Hope you enjoyed your ride.
private debt isnt a governmental issue,,,
Usually the government backs guaranteed student loans:

It doesn’t mean the government pays them. It usually means, if you default the government goes after you to collect
Hence the national emergency....trillions in outstanding debt to collect potentially.

Hey, I think it's BS too...

BUT if we allow Presidents to deem what is and isn't an emergency and shift congressionally allocated monies around based on it....as the blob did....this is what we have to face.
private debt isnt a governmental issue,,,

why is that so hard to understand,,,
Its guaranteed by the government....not sure why you can't understand that. Thus it's a pending national emergency....Biden should act. Erase it all. put $1.7 T back into the economy where it can create jobs and wealth instead of just giving it to the banks. LOL

they didnt have authority to do it in the first place ,,,
and how does that put it back into the economy when its erased from the ledgers???
I'm your bank. I lend you $10. You have to pay me back. I say forget it. Instead of paying me back, you buy a pizza. The Government gives me the $10.00 instead. You have a pizza and I have $10.00.
That doesn't work though. If the government gives you $10, then that just adds another $10 to the debt, and creates a need to raise taxes more on the citizens to pay it back.

Remember, the government neither owns, nor creates money, nor has any wealth. Every dime the government spends comes from taxpayers, in the form of IOU's the government takes from the federal reserve, with interest attached.

So, if the government forgives 1.7 trillion in student debt, that means it takes taxpayer money and gives it to someone else.

What do I get out of this? Where is MY benefit for helping to pay off peoples student loans? In fact, if the government is going to hand out tens of thousands of dollars to people, I want my money too. Sure, I dont have student loans, but that doesn't matter. Why should someone else be entitled to free money and not me?
You're right. It adds to the debt. But, as my republican friends will tell you....that $10 spent on Pizza buys more equipment for the restaurant, increases their revenue, they buy more from the flour supplier, the pepperoni supplier, the box makers, etc.... Who buy more grain from the farmers, pulp from the wood mill to make boxes, etc...

At least that is the story we're told. Revenues increase!
Sure, all that can happen, but then they have to pay more in taxes because of the added debt. So, you get benefit on the front end, but then that benefit is negated on the back end.

Also, it doesn't answer the question of how that benefits me? Sure, the pizza place benefits, and the student who no longer has $80,000 of debt to pay surely benefits, but that doesn't benefit me.

Again, if the government is going to start giving people $80,000, i want my check too.
Yeah...paying it off on the other end is someone else's problem though. That is the system we've had in place since the 1980's...

How does it benefit you? Instead of Lucy having to spend $180 a month on debt service, she's buying a stereo you're selling her or a home you're selling her or a car you've sold her. Or she's eating at your restaurant, getting her hair done at your salon or attending one of your concerts. Or she's able to volunteer in her community instead of working two jobs or spend more time creating art that you may like and purchase yourself.
Again, those things don't benefit me. They might benefit the company I work for, but at the end of the day, it mostly benefits the student.

I mean, if we are going to go by your example, then if the government hands me a check for $80,000, the i too can use that money to buy things and help stimulate the economy, or the government can pay off my home loan, and i can spend that money to buy pizzas and other stuff.

Again, if forgiveness of loans helps the economy, then why not just forgive all loans?
You make a good point. I would argue though that your loan to buy a new bass boat and the loan someone took out to go to college and become the next business owner, nurse, doctor, pharmacist, entrepreneur are different things. The benefit to the student has a bigger impact than the bass boat transaction.
How so? Its not about what the money is used for. It doesn't matter if one person uses the money for a boat and the other uses it for college.

Let's say, for example, in your boat scenario, if that guy started working right out of high school, and over the course of 20 years, managed to work his way up to a job that pays him 70K ler year, or, you have the young guy who just graduated college with $50,000 of student loan debt. Now, its said, on average, that college graduates will generally make more money over the course of a lifetime, and depending on your major, you could make more money right off the bat.

So, let's say college guy graduates with a degree that lands him in a job that pays him 70K to start. Now you are going to give that guy who's going to make more money a free college education to boot, but the guy that had to claw his way to good money still has to pay for the boat.

I'd argue, in that situation, the loan forgiveness would actually help the boat guy more, as the college guy will likely have higher average wage over the course of his life.

Not to mention, its simply not the responsibility of the citizen to provide free stuff to anyone. If person A takes out a loan to buy a boat, and person B takes out a loan to further his future, both should be responsible for the debt they incur.
Before the housing crisis, I'd agree with you (probably).

But we're heading for another bubble.

.
 

Faun

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
Did you complain even once during the last fiscal year when Impeached Trump gave us our first $4 trillion deficit?
Congress and Trump added to the debt. It takes two.
Tell that to the poster I responded to as he's blaming Biden for generating debt he hasn't generated.
Biden and Congress will add trillions more, I know that will happen.
Biden and Congress are inheriting a deficit, so of course the debt will climb.
 

progressive hunter

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
He can just divert money from Defense to pay for it.

Presidents can do that, right?
not if it doesnt have to do with national defense,,,
Crushing debt is a national security issue.... Much more so if a landscaper is crossing the border to cut grass.
If has nothing to do with national defense, you are stretching and the Supreme Court would vote against it. As Trump found out, just because you are President, it doesn’t mean you can do what you please. Thank goodness for the three branches.
Neither does the wall...
So two wrongs make a right?
Never.

But we'll wait for the next Republican to adhere to that principle. You good with that?
I’m not fine with that, being stupid is never a great idea to act stupid, in fact it is dangerous. Look at all the damn executive orders by the last several Presidents. Look at our debt issues. Watch Republicans become deficit hawks now. They should have been that way for decades and when events like 911 and the Covid-19 come around we have room to go into debt. Stupid, moronic, partisan politics is what is getting us into trouble and stupid, morons supporting such stupidity is just adding to the problems. We are digging our own grave. Time for this to stop and turn around. I really hate partisan Republicans and Democrats.
It would be great if we could change the rules so such shenanigans would not happen any more.
The rules are there, they aren’t enforced. This is allowing the rules to be stretched, just like you are wanting to do with the defense money. It should not be allowed nor should money allocated for other projects not have been allowed for the wall. Biden should not have EO’d the Dream Act, nor should SSI money be diverted to other funds. There are laws in place but we see no enforcement, we see justification.

We need Republicans and Democrats stand up for the three branches of government. That is why I hate both parties, they put politics over party.
When the Excecutive (the branch that is supposed to enforce the rules) is the one that breaks the rules....
what rule was broken???
Congress allocated money to programs listed on a bill it voted on.
Not to build a silly wall with that money.
but its POTUS job to determine national security issues,,,

sorry but you failed again,,,
And Biden can make that determination....massive debt is a national security issue.

Welcome back to square one. Hope you enjoyed your ride.
private debt isnt a governmental issue,,,
Usually the government backs guaranteed student loans:

It doesn’t mean the government pays them. It usually means, if you default the government goes after you to collect
Hence the national emergency....trillions in outstanding debt to collect potentially.

Hey, I think it's BS too...

BUT if we allow Presidents to deem what is and isn't an emergency and shift congressionally allocated monies around based on it....as the blob did....this is what we have to face.
private debt isnt a governmental issue,,,

why is that so hard to understand,,,
Its guaranteed by the government....not sure why you can't understand that. Thus it's a pending national emergency....Biden should act. Erase it all. put $1.7 T back into the economy where it can create jobs and wealth instead of just giving it to the banks. LOL

they didnt have authority to do it in the first place ,,,
and how does that put it back into the economy when its erased from the ledgers???
I'm your bank. I lend you $10. You have to pay me back. I say forget it. Instead of paying me back, you buy a pizza. The Government gives me the $10.00 instead. You have a pizza and I have $10.00.
That doesn't work though. If the government gives you $10, then that just adds another $10 to the debt, and creates a need to raise taxes more on the citizens to pay it back.

Remember, the government neither owns, nor creates money, nor has any wealth. Every dime the government spends comes from taxpayers, in the form of IOU's the government takes from the federal reserve, with interest attached.

So, if the government forgives 1.7 trillion in student debt, that means it takes taxpayer money and gives it to someone else.

What do I get out of this? Where is MY benefit for helping to pay off peoples student loans? In fact, if the government is going to hand out tens of thousands of dollars to people, I want my money too. Sure, I dont have student loans, but that doesn't matter. Why should someone else be entitled to free money and not me?
You're right. It adds to the debt. But, as my republican friends will tell you....that $10 spent on Pizza buys more equipment for the restaurant, increases their revenue, they buy more from the flour supplier, the pepperoni supplier, the box makers, etc.... Who buy more grain from the farmers, pulp from the wood mill to make boxes, etc...

At least that is the story we're told. Revenues increase!
Sure, all that can happen, but then they have to pay more in taxes because of the added debt. So, you get benefit on the front end, but then that benefit is negated on the back end.

Also, it doesn't answer the question of how that benefits me? Sure, the pizza place benefits, and the student who no longer has $80,000 of debt to pay surely benefits, but that doesn't benefit me.

Again, if the government is going to start giving people $80,000, i want my check too.
Yeah...paying it off on the other end is someone else's problem though. That is the system we've had in place since the 1980's...

How does it benefit you? Instead of Lucy having to spend $180 a month on debt service, she's buying a stereo you're selling her or a home you're selling her or a car you've sold her. Or she's eating at your restaurant, getting her hair done at your salon or attending one of your concerts. Or she's able to volunteer in her community instead of working two jobs or spend more time creating art that you may like and purchase yourself.
Again, those things don't benefit me. They might benefit the company I work for, but at the end of the day, it mostly benefits the student.

I mean, if we are going to go by your example, then if the government hands me a check for $80,000, the i too can use that money to buy things and help stimulate the economy, or the government can pay off my home loan, and i can spend that money to buy pizzas and other stuff.

Again, if forgiveness of loans helps the economy, then why not just forgive all loans?
You make a good point. I would argue though that your loan to buy a new bass boat and the loan someone took out to go to college and become the next business owner, nurse, doctor, pharmacist, entrepreneur are different things. The benefit to the student has a bigger impact than the bass boat transaction.
How so? Its not about what the money is used for. It doesn't matter if one person uses the money for a boat and the other uses it for college.

Let's say, for example, in your boat scenario, if that guy started working right out of high school, and over the course of 20 years, managed to work his way up to a job that pays him 70K ler year, or, you have the young guy who just graduated college with $50,000 of student loan debt. Now, its said, on average, that college graduates will generally make more money over the course of a lifetime, and depending on your major, you could make more money right off the bat.

So, let's say college guy graduates with a degree that lands him in a job that pays him 70K to start. Now you are going to give that guy who's going to make more money a free college education to boot, but the guy that had to claw his way to good money still has to pay for the boat.

I'd argue, in that situation, the loan forgiveness would actually help the boat guy more, as the college guy will likely have higher average wage over the course of his life.

Not to mention, its simply not the responsibility of the citizen to provide free stuff to anyone. If person A takes out a loan to buy a boat, and person B takes out a loan to further his future, both should be responsible for the debt they incur.
Before the housing crisis, I'd agree with you (probably).

But we're heading for another bubble.

.
theres always another bubble around the corner,, the only logical way to deal with them is to let them happen and learn from them,,,
 

progressive hunter

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
Did you complain even once during the last fiscal year when Impeached Trump gave us our first $4 trillion deficit?
Congress and Trump added to the debt. It takes two.
Tell that to the poster I responded to as he's blaming Biden for generating debt he hasn't generated.
Biden and Congress will add trillions more, I know that will happen.
Biden and Congress are inheriting a deficit, so of course the debt will climb.
you inherit debt not deficits,,,
 

Faun

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
Did you complain even once during the last fiscal year when Impeached Trump gave us our first $4 trillion deficit?
Congress and Trump added to the debt. It takes two.
Tell that to the poster I responded to as he's blaming Biden for generating debt he hasn't generated.
Biden and Congress will add trillions more, I know that will happen.
Biden and Congress are inheriting a deficit, so of course the debt will climb.
you inherit debt not deficits,,,
FY2021 began almost 2 months ago and is already more than $300 billion in deficit. So yes, you can inherit a deficit.
 

progressive hunter

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
Did you complain even once during the last fiscal year when Impeached Trump gave us our first $4 trillion deficit?
Congress and Trump added to the debt. It takes two.
Tell that to the poster I responded to as he's blaming Biden for generating debt he hasn't generated.
Biden and Congress will add trillions more, I know that will happen.
Biden and Congress are inheriting a deficit, so of course the debt will climb.
you inherit debt not deficits,,,
FY2021 began almost 2 months ago and is already more than $300 billion in deficit. So yes, you can inherit a deficit.
it already happened,,, so it cant be inherited,,,

no if joe does end up winning he can continue the trend,,,
 

Dana7360

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
He can just divert money from Defense to pay for it.

Presidents can do that, right?

Yup.

All he has to do is say it's a national emergency.

trump and his followers set the precedence.

They are too stupid to realize that what they allow one president to do, they allow all future presidents to do.
 

Faun

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
Did you complain even once during the last fiscal year when Impeached Trump gave us our first $4 trillion deficit?
Congress and Trump added to the debt. It takes two.
Tell that to the poster I responded to as he's blaming Biden for generating debt he hasn't generated.
Biden and Congress will add trillions more, I know that will happen.
Biden and Congress are inheriting a deficit, so of course the debt will climb.
you inherit debt not deficits,,,
FY2021 began almost 2 months ago and is already more than $300 billion in deficit. So yes, you can inherit a deficit.
it already happened,,, so it cant be inherited,,,

no if joe does end up winning he can continue the trend,,,
Of course it's inherited. FY2021 budget is already over $300 billion in deficit. That budget continues until the end of September and it's already in deficit. Biden needs to find a surplus of more than $300 billion just to eliminate the deficit he's inheriting.
 

progressive hunter

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President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
Did you complain even once during the last fiscal year when Impeached Trump gave us our first $4 trillion deficit?
Congress and Trump added to the debt. It takes two.
Tell that to the poster I responded to as he's blaming Biden for generating debt he hasn't generated.
Biden and Congress will add trillions more, I know that will happen.
Biden and Congress are inheriting a deficit, so of course the debt will climb.
you inherit debt not deficits,,,
FY2021 began almost 2 months ago and is already more than $300 billion in deficit. So yes, you can inherit a deficit.
it already happened,,, so it cant be inherited,,,

no if joe does end up winning he can continue the trend,,,
Of course it's inherited. FY2021 budget is already over $300 billion in deficit. That budget continues until the end of September and it's already in deficit. Biden needs to find a surplus of more than $300 billion just to eliminate the deficit he's inheriting.
but it was under trump not biden,, only a dishonest person would put it on bidens head,,,
 

Papageorgio

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We aren’t dealing with pizza’s we are dealing with loans. So when you payoff a loan, it doesn’t generate revenue at all.
The money that was going to pay back the loan went to pizza instead. I thought that much was clear.
Then let’s give every American $80000 and we can then sell more pizza!
Sure. Why not? INstead of $2.2T for loans that went to NBA franchises, direct payments to Americans was a better idea
problem solved, you get that passed and I’ll back it.
President-"Elect" Joe Biden will not take office until January 20th, of next year but people are already upset at what he's doing and WHY he is not waiting until once he’s sworn in to even discuss it!
. One possible agenda item for Biden’s first day involves the student loan debt crisis. With student loan debt currently standing at over $1.7 trillion nationally, lets hope that our country is not bankrupt in the first 100 days of his presidency!
Did you complain even once during the last fiscal year when Impeached Trump gave us our first $4 trillion deficit?
Congress and Trump added to the debt. It takes two.
Tell that to the poster I responded to as he's blaming Biden for generating debt he hasn't generated.
Biden and Congress will add trillions more, I know that will happen.
Biden and Congress are inheriting a deficit, so of course the debt will climb.
It doesn’t matter, the debt will climb, it has under every President all the way back to Coolidge.
 

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