President Barack Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize

[Modbert]

First of all, conflating Chinese communism to Soviet communism is not wise. There was more to those two wars than Soviet communism.

The fall of Soviet Union was more due to economic stress and had little to do with Viet Nam and Korea.

Now, with respect to Patton's idea to continue into the USSR, that would not have been bloodless in the least. The goal was to topple their communist regime. Granted, it did not happen immediately, but with just a couple of handfuls of deaths during the Cold War, Soviet Union fell.

I'm not saying those two things are the same thing. Mao and Stalin hated one another. Maoism and Stalinism are two different things. I never said they were one in the same.

The Fall of the USSR happened for reasons including economic stress. Trying to keep up defense spending with Reagan wasn't a smart move.

There was not a handful of deaths during the Cold War. The Korean War and Vietnam War can easily be considered a part of the Cold War. No war is bloodless.

 

[Si modo]

MacArthur and Patton ended up being right. It was our leaders here and Europe who basically shouldered this problem to future generations knowing they were doing so.

Patton was right about continuing the war into the USSR?

That's a GOOD point. Seems he too missed the quote of General John "BLACKJACK PERSHING"...who commented on this very same thing before the END of the first World War regarding Germany...

He was FOR continuing WWI, until the Germans signed their surrender IN BERLIN, for he knew that WE would have to confront them again, and we did just that.

Honestly, I am not convinced either way.

The Allies were war weary. So were all nations, including USSR. Maybe we could have dispatched that regime quickly, maybe not. Either way, it would not have been bloodless.

In exchange, we had the Cold War with USSR. Economic growth, for sure. A long period of cold conflict as well. And, massive proliferation of WMD.

Even in hindsight, it is a hard call for me as to what would have been better.

 

[Modbert]

I think the arms race coupled with their war in Afghanistan broke the Soviet economy and the country itself.

Which is why I said earlier we need to leave Afghanistan or otherwise we'd go the way of the Soviet Union. You are right though.

 

[Si modo]

First of all, conflating Chinese communism to Soviet communism is not wise. There was more to those two wars than Soviet communism.

The fall of Soviet Union was more due to economic stress and had little to do with Viet Nam and Korea.

Now, with respect to Patton's idea to continue into the USSR, that would not have been bloodless in the least. The goal was to topple their communist regime. Granted, it did not happen immediately, but with just a couple of handfuls of deaths during the Cold War, Soviet Union fell.

I'm not saying those two things are the same thing. Mao and Stalin hated one another. Maoism and Stalinism are two different things. I never said they were one in the same.

The Fall of the USSR happened for reasons including economic stress. Trying to keep up defense spending with Reagan wasn't a smart move.

There was not a handful of deaths during the Cold War. The Korean War and Vietnam War can easily be considered a part of the Cold War. No war is bloodless.

No, Viet Nam and Korea are wars in and of themselves. The Cold War gets its name because it is a cold war. (WTF?)

You claimed that the Viet Nam and Korean wars were proxy wars with USSR - not a single mention of Communist China. I found that quite odd and assumed you must be conflating the two and dumping them into the same basket. At least that's a relief that you have learned there is a difference.

 

[elvis]

That's a GOOD point. Seems he too missed the quote of General John "BLACKJACK PERSHING"...who commented on this very same thing before the END of the first World War regarding Germany...

He was FOR continuing WWI, until the Germans signed their surrender IN BERLIN, for he knew that WE would have to confront them again, and we did just that.

World War I was a bitter fight. Germany had ended the war with Russia (as soon as wilson declared war) . How long would it have taken to get to Beriin? How many casualties would we have suffered>

Don't know...but the point stands...even a certain German Corporal didn't belive it to be over either.

except hitler didn't want a war with Britain. He didn't want a war with France other than to avenge Versailles. He said in Mein Kampf that there would be a war with France just because the two countries didn't get along. He wanted to expand eastward. I've wondered recently why Britain would sacrifice its entire empire to keep Germany in line.

 

[Modbert]

except hitler didn't want a war with Britain. He didn't want a war with France other than to avenge Versailles. He said in Mein Kampf that there would be a war with France just because the two countries didn't get along. He wanted to expand eastward. I've wondered recently why Britain would sacrifice its entire empire to keep Germany in line.

Churchill has something to do with that.

 

[Si modo]

If you look at it the way I stated earlier, we fought two wars with the USSR. Korean War and the Vietnam War.

PLUS, we gave help to Osama Bin Laden and those in Afghanistan when they were fighting the USSR.

We were better off in continuing war with the USSR at their weakest point instead of just fighting proxy wars over the course of forty years and diplomacy dick waving over the last ten.

First of all, conflating Chinese communism to Soviet communism is not wise. There was more to those two wars than Soviet communism.

The fall of Soviet Union was more due to economic stress and had little to do with Viet Nam and Korea.

Now, with respect to Patton's idea to continue into the USSR, that would not have been bloodless in the least. The goal was to topple their communist regime. Granted, it did not happen immediately, but with just a couple of handfuls of deaths during the Cold War, Soviet Union fell.

I think the arms race coupled with their war in Afghanistan broke the Soviet economy and the country itself.

Yes, Afghanistan too. Good point.

 

[Modbert]

No, Viet Nam and Korea are wars in and of themselves. The Cold War gets its name because it is a cold war. (WTF?)

You claimed that the Viet Nam and Korean wars were proxy wars with USSR - not a single mention of Communist China. I found that quite odd and assumed you must be conflating the two and dumping them into the same basket. At least that's a relief that you have learned there is a difference.

I may of forgotten to mention Communist China but they were a part of it as well. I didn't learn in this thread there was a difference, I knew.

However, the Korean and Vietnam Wars were Proxy Wars. They would of never had gone as long as they did without the interference of outside forces.

 

[elvis]

except hitler didn't want a war with Britain. He didn't want a war with France other than to avenge Versailles. He said in Mein Kampf that there would be a war with France just because the two countries didn't get along. He wanted to expand eastward. I've wondered recently why Britain would sacrifice its entire empire to keep Germany in line.

Churchill has something to do with that.

Yeah I know. Like bombing the French fleet and Berlin to provoke Hitler into attacking her, thus obviously gaining political support to stay in the war. but why?

 

[The T]

World War I was a bitter fight. Germany had ended the war with Russia (as soon as wilson declared war) . How long would it have taken to get to Beriin? How many casualties would we have suffered>

Don't know...but the point stands...even a certain German Corporal didn't belive it to be over either.

except hitler didn't want a war with Britain. He didn't want a war with France other than to avenge Versailles. He said in Mein Kampf that there would be a war with France just because the two countries didn't get along. He wanted to expand eastward. I've wondered recently why Britain would sacrifice its entire empire to keep Germany in line.

Because they didn't want nor need a tyrant controlling Europe, including the land of the CZARS Nor the legacy of their aristocricy? Or the fact that Russia had VAST resources?

In any case. KUDOS to you for getting the Reference.

 

[elvis]

Don't know...but the point stands...even a certain German Corporal didn't belive it to be over either.

except hitler didn't want a war with Britain. He didn't want a war with France other than to avenge Versailles. He said in Mein Kampf that there would be a war with France just because the two countries didn't get along. He wanted to expand eastward. I've wondered recently why Britain would sacrifice its entire empire to keep Germany in line.

Because they didn't want nor need a tyrant controlling Europe, including the land of the CZARS Nor the legacy of their aristocricy? Or the fact that Russia had VAST resources?

In any case. KUDOS to you for getting the Reference.

but war was declared when Hitler entered Poland, not Russia.

 

[Si modo]

No, Viet Nam and Korea are wars in and of themselves. The Cold War gets its name because it is a cold war. (WTF?)

You claimed that the Viet Nam and Korean wars were proxy wars with USSR - not a single mention of Communist China. I found that quite odd and assumed you must be conflating the two and dumping them into the same basket. At least that's a relief that you have learned there is a difference.

I may of forgotten to mention Communist China but they were a part of it as well. I didn't learn in this thread there was a difference, I knew. ...

Stop being so defensive. As I never said you learned from this thread, your defensiveness is bizarre.

How one can forget to mention Communist China when trying to claim that Viet Nam and Korea are proxy wars is also bizarre, but okie doke.

.... However, the Korean and Vietnam Wars were Proxy Wars. They would of never had gone as long as they did without the interference of outside forces.

Proxy wars against the USSR, according to you, right?

Only a few handfuls of Americans died during the Cold War, so indeed it is considered a bloodless war.

 

[Modbert]

Yeah I know. Like bombing the French fleet and Berlin to provoke Hitler into attacking her, thus obviously gaining political support to stay in the war. but why?

His good relationship with FDR perhaps played a bit in it. As for the other reasoning, I'm unsure.

 

[elvis]

Yeah I know. Like bombing the French fleet and Berlin to provoke Hitler into attacking her, thus obviously gaining political support to stay in the war. but why?

His good relationship with FDR perhaps played a bit in it. As for the other reasoning, I'm unsure.

well yeah. there were deals cut long before pearl harbor where the US would get bases IN Europe in return for supplying Britain. What does that tell you?

 

[Modbert]

How one can forget to mention Communist China when trying to claim that Viet Nam and Korea are proxy wars is also bizarre, but okie doke.

Proxy wars against the USSR, according to you, right?

Only a few handfuls of Americans died during the Cold War, so indeed it is considered a bloodless war.

Because we were talking about the USSR, not China at the time. Or at least I was with Patton.

The Proxy Wars was against the USSR but China as well. China and Russia would of never had teamed up but that was the fear of the U.S. for a long time.

Plus, if you want to talk about cause and effect, the Proxy war against the USSR gave CIA training, funds, and weapons to Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban. So the victims of 9/11 and the Afghanistan War can be considered victims of the Cold War as well.

 

[Modbert]

well yeah. there were deals cut long before pearl harbor where the US would get bases IN Europe in return for supplying Britain. What does that tell you?

That tells me that one way or another, we were going into WWII. Which is why the theory that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor but did nothing about it always arises.

 

[Immanuel]

Women have no rights. Go figure. It's the kind of society the people want. It would have happened whether we toppled saddam or the iraqi people overthrew him.

Under Saddam, the state was secular...seems like women were better off....

Well democracy is the worst form of government until something better comes along.

Psst! The quote from Churchill is if I remember correctly:

Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others.

But I won't tell if you won't

 

[Immanuel]

Really? Did the women get to vote?

If they did, all hell is about to break loose in Afghanistan!

Immie

PS: I think I am about to get in BIG trouble!

 

[Modbert]

If they did, all hell is about to break loose in Afghanistan!

Immie

PS: I think I am about to get in BIG trouble!

Watch as a hailstorm of insults barrage you for using logic.

 

[Immanuel]

Exactly. Obama has effectively been put in a "Straightjacket"...for now he MUST live up to the expectations of the AWARD...

BS!

He's already won the award. He's a lame duck. Now he can do whatever the F! he wants and screw the NPP committee.

Immie

Disagree. Sure he has the AWARD, and has accpted it. But what you seem to have missed is Obama's very own Comments...

OBAMA: I am both surprised and deeply humbled by the decision of the Nobel committee

OBAMA: -- recognition of my own accomplishments, but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations. To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many of the transformative figures who have been honored by this prize.

***And the ASS KICKER***

OBAMA: Throughout history, the Nobel Peace Prize has not just been used to honor specific achievement, it's also been used as a means to give momentum to a set of causes, and that is why I will accept this award as a call to action, a call for all nations to confront the common challenges of the twenty-first century. These challenges can't be met by any one leader or any one nation. That's why my administration's worked to establish a new era of engagement in which all nations must take responsibility for the world we seek.

_________________
To the FIRST emboldened?

According to NOBEL's WILL?

When Alfred Nobel died on December 10, 1896, it was discovered that he had left a will, dated November 27, 1895, according to which most of his vast wealth was to be used for five prizes, including one for peace. The prize for peace was to be awarded to the person who "shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding of peace congresses."

Had OBAMA done such a thing only 12 DAYS into office from his Immacculation?

I hardly THINK SO.

Seems that OBAMA's acceptance of this AWARD, and that of Mr. NOBEL are at odds...eh?

Again? OBAMA has been placed in a StraightJacket. Even by his own admission.

He is a politician and you believe him?

I must say T, I thought you knew better than that.

Immie