prepardness

[paravani]

Straining to remember my anthropology classes, I'd say maybe on the order of 30 to 50 as a natural community or "tribe". But certainly you don't coalesce into a city of 20,000 or more. That's done over time as a coalition of already-existing tribes. But the formation of that tribe is, I agree, what we should expect would naturally occur. I don't necessarily agree with more potential for bloodshed; I don't see how that follows. If tribe A has abundant food but lacks water and tribe B has the opposite, it would be to their mutual benefit to cooperate, not to compete.

The problems occur when you have a group that has nothing to offer, yet needs much.

For instance, the aforementioned group of drug addicts who are shaking with need for a fix, who have already robbed all the pharmacies they can find, and now want to invade every home so they can search through the medicine cabinets. They have banded together because they have better success in their raids than working alone...

Now what?

I also don't see any basis for racial competition in this scenario; given that survival is a common need, race would take a back seat. I suspect racism can only take hold in an atmosphere of abundance-- when that common need is less urgent.

My hubby and I have moved to a rural area with abundant water and trees, and about 30-50 households. We live relatively close to a major metro area, but our area is accessible only by way of a bridge that spans a deep chasm.

We do not plan to discriminate against anyone based on race, creed, color, or religion. If they live here, they are probably prepared for all manner of different scenarios -- it's just that sort of neighborhood. The power goes out often for long periods of time, and we don't let it upset us much.

That bridge is mighty comforting, I must say.

-- Paravani
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[Pogo]

Straining to remember my anthropology classes, I'd say maybe on the order of 30 to 50 as a natural community or "tribe". But certainly you don't coalesce into a city of 20,000 or more. That's done over time as a coalition of already-existing tribes. But the formation of that tribe is, I agree, what we should expect would naturally occur. I don't necessarily agree with more potential for bloodshed; I don't see how that follows. If tribe A has abundant food but lacks water and tribe B has the opposite, it would be to their mutual benefit to cooperate, not to compete.

The problems occur when you have a group that has nothing to offer, yet needs much.

For instance, the aforementioned group of drug addicts who are shaking with need for a fix, who have already robbed all the pharmacies they can find, and now want to invade every home so they can search through the medicine cabinets. They have banded together because they have better success in their raids than working alone...

Now what?

"Now what" indeed. But while the idea of a pack of drug addicts roaming the landscape may make for a really bad novel or a really everyday Hollywood script, what are the chances that any of us would ever live to see something like this happen?

(and I submit, in this case a pack of drug addicts, being by definition a self-centred bunch, would be unlikely to cooperate internally anyway; far more likely they would implode)

These scenaria are all relative in the scope of probability; my original suggestion was (and is) that some posters have plunked their probability base far, far out in the fringe. I just wonder what bridge one takes to reach such a place.

And how much the toll is.

 

[Mushroom]

This is something I have been encouraging people to do for ages. However, I am going to put my own little spin on things.

Before, during and after a disaster your main goal is survival. And depending on the disaster, this can take different forms.

Idealy, if you know a disaster is coming, your best bet is to get out of the area. If you know a hurricane is on the way, or a fire is going towards you, do not sit and wait for it to hit, leave!

I also went through Katrina (and Ivan, and Hugo, and Floyd, etc, etc), and days before these storms hit you saw a lot of people leaving the area. So as part of any survival plan, I can't stress enough evacuation. Have some basic supplies, vehicle(s), and a location to go to (friend, family, even a WalMart parking lot in another county).

Then there are some supplies everybody should have:

A hard copy of all prescriptions.
Food to last a minimum of 1 week.
Water to last at least 3 days, and containers to hold an additional 3 days.
Shelter (RV, tent, sleeping bags, etc).
Sanitation (baby wipes, bucket toilet, shovel).
First aid kit.

Those are some absolute minimums. If you have young children, better have enough diapers-formula as well for at least 5 days. And you can take this well beyond if you want.

My wife and I have an RV. It has at all times a full propane tank and a half tank of gasoline. If we know something is going to happen, we fill the tank. We can quickly fill the water tank (40 gallons), and can live out of it for weeks. That is also where our emergency supplies are all stored.

I also encourage everybody to keep a minimal kit in each vehicle. At least 3 days of food and water, as well as comfortable clothes and boots. Because if something happens ad you are at work and the roads are impassable, you are not going to want to walk home in your dress shoes since you have no supplies with you.

I can go on for this topic for ages, and have in other forums. One individual last year even insisted that he did not need anything like that, because he lived in New Jersey, and no disasters ever happened there.

Ooops.

 

[paravani]

This is something I have been encouraging people to do for ages. However, I am going to put my own little spin on things.

Before, during and after a disaster your main goal is survival. And depending on the disaster, this can take different forms.

Idealy, if you know a disaster is coming, your best bet is to get out of the area. If you know a hurricane is on the way, or a fire is going towards you, do not sit and wait for it to hit, leave!

I absolutely agree!

We live in the Pacific Northwest, which is way overdue for our once-every-238-years mega-quake.

It is a geological characteristic of this region that we have practically no earthquakes at all for years and years on end -- about 238 years, on average -- and then, all at once, the Juan de Fuca plate subducts under the North American continental plate, and we have a large-to-huge earthquake that shakes the entire coastline and cities far inland from northern California to southern British Columbia.

How big this earthquake will be depends largely on the amount of time since the last one -- and in this case, the last one was 313 years ago come January 26th, which is the longest stretch between these mega-thrust quakes since before the invention of the wheel 10,000 years ago.

So we've stored up about 40 feet of unreleased subduction stress, which means that when the quake occurs, the first thing that will happen is the coastline will leap about 40 feet westward, and then drop six-to-ten feet. So although we advise anyone on the beach at the time to run to high ground to escape the tsunami -- well, the "high ground" that used to be their town may then be below sea level, and they may find that they have to run further and faster than planned.

But that's the plan, anyway.

In the meantime, places like Seattle, which is not on the coast, will only leap 15 feet westward, according to seismologists. Now, whether the buildings will also leap 15 feet west when the ground on which they rest does is anybody's guess, but I'd say.... mmm, that's probably wishful thinking.

Certainly the inland Puget Sound will not move to the west. It will behave much as if it has just experienced an enormous landslide on its eastern shores, which will generate an inland mega-tsunami. (Look up the term on You Tube to find great videos.)

You know, I have another thread here that describes much of what will happen after that... you can find it by checking my statistics, if you're really curious.

Suffice to say that those of us who live here don't know when it's coming... just that odds are, it's coming soon.

We have a seismic event that occurs every 14 months around here called the Episodic Tremor and Slip event. During the ETS, the subduction zone experiences small tremors that seem to indicate some movement; then all is quiet for another 14 months.

Our last ETS event began on August 31st and continued for 40 days. It was tied with the previous year's event for the longest; but it was by far the strongest, with over 600 hours of tremors recorded during the 1000 hours that the event lasted.

This is of concern because it is thought that major earthquakes begin as tremors that trigger larger movements.

Our next ETS event isn't due until next Halloween. However, we have recently experienced some "unscheduled" tremors -- which is somewhat unsettling.

Seismologists have also been measuring the area of the subduction zone, since the strength of any earthquake is directly proportional to the area and magnitude of movement. The movement is expected to be, as I noted earlier, about 40 feet westward; the area where the two plates are in contact has been measured to be about 600 miles long, and about 50 miles wide.

This is larger than the area of any seismic movement previously recorded -- so seismologists are understandably excited by the prospect of being able to record and study it with instrumentation, while simultaneously being terrified to be present on location when it happens.

*******************************************

So, yes, I advise anyone who isn't ready for a wild ride to evacuate now, before the earthquake destroys roads, bridges, plumbing, electricity, and other vital infrastructure. Don't get caught here unprepared; and if you must live here, be very aware of the risks, and plan accordingly.

Unfortunately, too many are still ignorant of the risks or believe that the long-overdue mega-quake will not happen in their lifetimes. These people will be in serious trouble when the earthquake strikes.

My wife and I have an RV. It has at all times a full propane tank and a half tank of gasoline. If we know something is going to happen, we fill the tank. We can quickly fill the water tank (40 gallons), and can live out of it for weeks. That is also where our emergency supplies are all stored.

I also encourage everybody to keep a minimal kit in each vehicle. At least 3 days of food and water, as well as comfortable clothes and boots. Because if something happens ad you are at work and the roads are impassable, you are not going to want to walk home in your dress shoes since you have no supplies with you.

This sounds like excellent planning. I wish everyone were as well-prepared.

I would, however, fill the water tank now and keep water treatment tablets on hand.

I can go on for this topic for ages, and have in other forums. One individual last year even insisted that he did not need anything like that, because he lived in New Jersey, and no disasters ever happened there.

Ooops.

Yup, Jersey is safe.

-- Paravani

 

[Mushroom]

We live in the Pacific Northwest, which is way overdue for our once-every-238-years mega-quake.

And there are other things that can and have happened in that region as well.

Those of us old enough to remember Mt. St. Helens remember the problems when that went up. And if you think you are safe, remember that the Yellowstone Caldera is way overdue for an eruption. And based upon past eruptions, expect pretty much everything West of the Mississippi to be damaged to one degree or another.

Now odds are things like this will not happen in the near future, but considering that the human race was almost wiped out in the Lake Toba supervolcano event (74 kya). Now if you are close enough to an event of that magnitude nothing will really help you, but preparing can mean the difference between life and death to those further away.

Plus being prepared just makes good sense. Several times I have relied upon my "survival cache" for when money was tight. My wife and I just dipped into that, and replaced it later on when we could. I know from first-hand experience we can live off of the supplies in our house for over a month.

Also, try to stock up on "dual purpose supplies". For example, in my cars I usually have cases of something like Ensure. These function both as a source of water, as well as food. Another good one is sanitary napkins. Other then their obvious use, they also are sterile and make excellent bandages when secured with medical tape or ace wraps.

 

[paravani]

We live in the Pacific Northwest, which is way overdue for our once-every-238-years mega-quake.

And there are other things that can and have happened in that region as well.

Those of us old enough to remember Mt. St. Helens remember the problems when that went up. And if you think you are safe, remember that the Yellowstone Caldera is way overdue for an eruption. And based upon past eruptions, expect pretty much everything West of the Mississippi to be damaged to one degree or another.

Now odds are things like this will not happen in the near future, but considering that the human race was almost wiped out in the Lake Toba supervolcano event (74 kya). Now if you are close enough to an event of that magnitude nothing will really help you, but preparing can mean the difference between life and death to those further away.

The reason the Toba super-volcano nearly wiped out the human race 70,000 years ago was that there was so much smoke and ash in the air that the planet experienced a decade of winter, followed by about a thousand years of colder-than-normal temperatures. Only people living near the equator survived; and geneticists say they have evidence that we were down to fewer than 1,000 breeding pairs.

The Yellowstone super-volcano is several times larger than Toba. If it were to erupt in modern times, the only long-term survivors would be those who lived in underground ecosystems complete with power generation and food plantations.

I plan for the most likely disasters that are survivable. The Cascadia Subduction Zone mega-quake is not only extremely likely to occur in my lifetime, but is also survivable with appropriate planning and preparation. An EMP event, whether caused by a large solar flare or by human actions, is also survivable, and is becoming more likely every day.

(I won't go into the technical reasons why an EMP is more likely every day because that would completely derail the thread. If you're interested, PM me, and I'll start another thread somewhere on it.)

IMHO, a super-volcano eruption, major meteor strike, and all-out nuclear war are not survivable events for me and my family no matter how likely they may or may not be. So I'm not going to waste my time, energy, or money trying to plan how to survive them or even worrying about them. As far as non-survivable events are concerned, my basic attitude can be summed up in two words, one of which isn't postable:

Sh*t happens.

Oh, and regarding ordinary volcanoes?

You're going to love this:

The lovely rural cabin where my hubby and I now live... with its unlimited fresh water in a year-round creek fed by pure snow-melt... in a small neighborhood that's near a major metro area, but completely isolated from it by very-defensible a bridge over a deep chasm...

Yeah, that cabin? That perfectly ideal location for surviving the aftermath of a major earthquake?

That cabin is built over an ancient lahar (volcanic mud flow) created by a volcano whose most recent lahar occurred approximately 300 years ago, around the same time as the last mega-quake.

That's right: our cabin is on ground zero for an active volcano's next eruption.

Plus being prepared just makes good sense. Several times I have relied upon my "survival cache" for when money was tight. My wife and I just dipped into that, and replaced it later on when we could. I know from first-hand experience we can live off of the supplies in our house for over a month.

Also, try to stock up on "dual purpose supplies". For example, in my cars I usually have cases of something like Ensure. These function both as a source of water, as well as food. Another good one is sanitary napkins. Other then their obvious use, they also are sterile and make excellent bandages when secured with medical tape or ace wraps.

I learned about the dual uses of sanitary napkins in the CERT training class.

We dip into our supplies, too, usually when it's time to go shopping but too late in the day to make the trip into town. We call it "rotating" our stock, and we always replace it with more than we took out.

After all, that's what it's for! It's food; you're supposed to eat it; and everyone who preps says it's a good idea to store things you actually eat regularly, because even long-term storage foods need to rotated eventually.

Thanks for a great post!

-- Paravani

 

[Againsheila]

We live in the Pacific Northwest, which is way overdue for our once-every-238-years mega-quake.

And there are other things that can and have happened in that region as well.

Those of us old enough to remember Mt. St. Helens remember the problems when that went up. And if you think you are safe, remember that the Yellowstone Caldera is way overdue for an eruption. And based upon past eruptions, expect pretty much everything West of the Mississippi to be damaged to one degree or another.

Now odds are things like this will not happen in the near future, but considering that the human race was almost wiped out in the Lake Toba supervolcano event (74 kya). Now if you are close enough to an event of that magnitude nothing will really help you, but preparing can mean the difference between life and death to those further away.

The reason the Toba super-volcano nearly wiped out the human race 70,000 years ago was that there was so much smoke and ash in the air that the planet experienced a decade of winter, followed by about a thousand years of colder-than-normal temperatures. Only people living near the equator survived; and geneticists say they have evidence that we were down to fewer than 1,000 breeding pairs.

The Yellowstone super-volcano is several times larger than Toba. If it were to erupt in modern times, the only long-term survivors would be those who lived in underground ecosystems complete with power generation and food plantations.

I plan for the most likely disasters that are survivable. The Cascadia Subduction Zone mega-quake is not only extremely likely to occur in my lifetime, but is also survivable with appropriate planning and preparation. An EMP event, whether caused by a large solar flare or by human actions, is also survivable, and is becoming more likely every day.

(I won't go into the technical reasons why an EMP is more likely every day because that would completely derail the thread. If you're interested, PM me, and I'll start another thread somewhere on it.)

IMHO, a super-volcano eruption, major meteor strike, and all-out nuclear war are not survivable events for me and my family no matter how likely they may or may not be. So I'm not going to waste my time, energy, or money trying to plan how to survive them or even worrying about them. As far as non-survivable events are concerned, my basic attitude can be summed up in two words, one of which isn't postable:

Sh*t happens.

Oh, and regarding ordinary volcanoes?

You're going to love this:

The lovely rural cabin where my hubby and I now live... with its unlimited fresh water in a year-round creek fed by pure snow-melt... in a small neighborhood that's near a major metro area, but completely isolated from it by very-defensible a bridge over a deep chasm...

Yeah, that cabin? That perfectly ideal location for surviving the aftermath of a major earthquake?

That cabin is built over an ancient lahar (volcanic mud flow) created by a volcano whose most recent lahar occurred approximately 300 years ago, around the same time as the last mega-quake.

That's right: our cabin is on ground zero for an active volcano's next eruption.

Plus being prepared just makes good sense. Several times I have relied upon my "survival cache" for when money was tight. My wife and I just dipped into that, and replaced it later on when we could. I know from first-hand experience we can live off of the supplies in our house for over a month.

Also, try to stock up on "dual purpose supplies". For example, in my cars I usually have cases of something like Ensure. These function both as a source of water, as well as food. Another good one is sanitary napkins. Other then their obvious use, they also are sterile and make excellent bandages when secured with medical tape or ace wraps.

I learned about the dual uses of sanitary napkins in the CERT training class.

We dip into our supplies, too, usually when it's time to go shopping but too late in the day to make the trip into town. We call it "rotating" our stock, and we always replace it with more than we took out.

After all, that's what it's for! It's food; you're supposed to eat it; and everyone who preps says it's a good idea to store things you actually eat regularly, because even long-term storage foods need to rotated eventually.

Thanks for a great post!

-- Paravani

Years and years ago I read that Sweden had enough bomb shelters for their entire population. Everyone had a place to go in case of emergency. At that time, we were told, in case of nuclear war to go to the Shelton Prison. Yeah, great place to be in a nuclear war and only and hour and a half to get there (well, days really if you count everyone else going there and blocking the roads). I really do think our government should be spending more of our tax dollars on emergency preparation for our entire population, not just for our leaders. In fact I would say in case of a nuclear war they shouldn't be allowed into the bomb shelters. I just don't believe the people who started it are the ones who should survive it.

 

[PaulS1950]

I used to teach survival classes. I would get local first aid, nutitionists and emergency responders to come to give out cetian information and do a lot of the instruction myself as lead in or in summing up presentations. You would be amazed at the number of different ways that percentages view the topic of being prepared.
Here is a short list of questions to ask yourself:
1. What if I lost my job tomorrow and could not find work?
2. If my home was unusable when I woke up at 3AM?
3. If a strike or other event caused trucking to be interupted for a couple of weeks would I be able to feed myself?
4. If my spouse (or signifigant other) got very ill or died could I find the relevant information to manage?
5. if a riot, like those in other areas erupted would I be safe?
6. If my spouse, or SO, had a heart attack do I have the ability to keep them alive for the 20 minutes or hour it would for emergency personnel to respond?

This is a "short list" of things that you need to be prepared for every day. there are about 10% that think "being prepared" means having a gun while another 10% think that having food for a year stored along with some water and secure locks will keep them safe. The other 80% fall somewhere in the middle. You need something to barter with, food and water, shelter, and a small group that will support each other in any one of the situations that arrise. Fammily living close is part of it but you need to get to know your neighbors and become close enough that there is a bond of friendship or "tribe" to make sure that you will be able to make it through any emergency.
Each person's needs are individual and there are many things to consider as necessary. Cronic diseases like asthma and diabetes require medications that may not be available so you need the cooperation of your doctor to be prepared for that. Extra glasses for those who need them can be a life-saving addition to your gear. The means to defend one's self and family plays a role - although a lesser one than some might believe. Skills that are hobbies can be very useful in emergency situations.
You have to be able to have recreation as well as safety to live through any emergency so board games and cards can be used to relieve stress and build relationships during extended emergencies.
Too often people forget that it is more than just survival during an emergency - you have to be able to live through it and go on living after it is over.

 

[paravani]

I really do think our government should be spending more of our tax dollars on emergency preparation for our entire population, not just for our leaders. In fact I would say in case of a nuclear war they shouldn't be allowed into the bomb shelters. I just don't believe the people who started it are the ones who should survive it.

I just had to make sure no one missed that gem of wisdom!

Hey, if you're enjoying this thread and you'd like a place to post others like it, let Cereal_Killer know. I've proposed a new "Disaster Preparation and Survival" forum in the "We Need a New Forum" thread. Click on the link and add your two cents!

-- Paravani

 

[Mushroom]

Too often people forget that it is more than just survival during an emergency - you have to be able to live through it and go on living after it is over.

That is the type of thinking I am always telling people that they need.

Back in 1999, I was one of the local "computer experts", and I constantly had people come up and ask me if I thought they needed a "Y2K Kit". And many were rather surprised when I told them "Yes, you definately need one". Then when asked if I thought we would loose electricity and all the other doomsday predictions, I said "Of course not, but we live in LA, and you need an earthquake kit, which is the same thing." Needless to say, most just laughed and forgot all about it.

In my life I have been through more disasters then I want to think about. 3 major Earthquakes (1971 San Fernando, 1994 Northridge, 1999 Hector Mine), more Hurricanes then I want to remember (including Katrina and Ivan), evacuations for fires and flooding, and 4 days of 10 degree weather without electricity or water.

And in each one of those since I became an adult I relied upon my disaster kit. In 1994 after the shaking stopped, my late fiancee and I were loading up the truck to leave (we lived 3 miles from the epicenter) when the guy that lived next to us asked if we had any water. He had 3 young children (2 in diapers), and no water to make formula with. So I gave him 6 gallons, which was enough to last him the first few days.

If somebody is really serious, such a kit is not hard to make. I worked at a Surplus Store in 1994, and advised a lot of people who decided to prepare them "after the fact". But these are my main pieces of advice:

Keep your main kit in a backpack. This way in case you have to leave on foot, you can bring the essential things with you.

Keep it in your car. I had people who looked dumbfounded when I suggested this, even when I told them that if something happened and they were at work they would still have it with them. Some insisted that their house was a better place, and that walking to their car if it was needed would be to inconvient.

I also encourage people to have flashlights, a radio, and 2 to 3 sets of batteries for each (and a solar battery charger). Forget the hand-crank radios, I have never found one yet that was worth a damn (same with the shake flashlights).

Before I got my RV, I kept all my supplies in 3 seperate kits. One was always in my vehicle, and had enough to get me through at least 3 days. Then there were 2 progressively larger ones in the house, that in total would keep me for a total of almost a month, including a tent and large tarp (in case I had to evacuate such as my house was destroyed), a bucket with a toilet seat and lots of bags to line it with, a folding military shovel, crowbar, gloves, and other things I might use to help extracate others. The larger items were kept shoved into 2 military duffelbags.

I also encourage enough canteens or collapsable water containers so that everybody has at least 1 gallon of water. These take up little room when stored, and will be impossible to find when you really need one.

The thing people need to remember that survival comes in 3 stages. First, is immediately surviving the disaster.

Second, it is getting to someplace safe.

Third, getting by until you can start to put your life back together.

To many people seem to think they can rely on the Government to get them through, bad move. Local governments are often incompetant when it comes to a disaster (look at New Orleans), and it takes on average 2-4 days for the Federal Government to respond. So for that initial time, you are going to be largely on your own.

And do not rely on forraging. First off, it is very hard to "live off the land" unless you are a real expert. Remember, hunter-gatherers usually spent 60-80% of their waking hours gathering food, and they were real experts. Plus, you are not going to be the only one with that idea. And what is to say the disaster is going to happen at a good time for such activities, or that plants and animals survived it as well?

But if you are going to forrage, the best thing you can do is make "eternal soup". Get the largest pot you can (or a small metal garbage can if there are enough in your group), keep it barely at the boiling point, and add in anything of nutrition as needed. Squirrels, domestic animals, roots, veggies, anything you can. Because it is constantly at boiling temperature, it should stay safe to eat. And even things generally considered inedible (rodents, insects, tree bark, pine needles) will add at least some neutrient value, and stretch food supplies longer among more people.

 

[Againsheila]

Too often people forget that it is more than just survival during an emergency - you have to be able to live through it and go on living after it is over.

That is the type of thinking I am always telling people that they need.

Back in 1999, I was one of the local "computer experts", and I constantly had people come up and ask me if I thought they needed a "Y2K Kit". And many were rather surprised when I told them "Yes, you definately need one". Then when asked if I thought we would loose electricity and all the other doomsday predictions, I said "Of course not, but we live in LA, and you need an earthquake kit, which is the same thing." Needless to say, most just laughed and forgot all about it.

In my life I have been through more disasters then I want to think about. 3 major Earthquakes (1971 San Fernando, 1994 Northridge, 1999 Hector Mine), more Hurricanes then I want to remember (including Katrina and Ivan), evacuations for fires and flooding, and 4 days of 10 degree weather without electricity or water.

And in each one of those since I became an adult I relied upon my disaster kit. In 1994 after the shaking stopped, my late fiancee and I were loading up the truck to leave (we lived 3 miles from the epicenter) when the guy that lived next to us asked if we had any water. He had 3 young children (2 in diapers), and no water to make formula with. So I gave him 6 gallons, which was enough to last him the first few days.

If somebody is really serious, such a kit is not hard to make. I worked at a Surplus Store in 1994, and advised a lot of people who decided to prepare them "after the fact". But these are my main pieces of advice:

Keep your main kit in a backpack. This way in case you have to leave on foot, you can bring the essential things with you.

Keep it in your car. I had people who looked dumbfounded when I suggested this, even when I told them that if something happened and they were at work they would still have it with them. Some insisted that their house was a better place, and that walking to their car if it was needed would be to inconvient.

I also encourage people to have flashlights, a radio, and 2 to 3 sets of batteries for each (and a solar battery charger). Forget the hand-crank radios, I have never found one yet that was worth a damn (same with the shake flashlights).

Before I got my RV, I kept all my supplies in 3 seperate kits. One was always in my vehicle, and had enough to get me through at least 3 days. Then there were 2 progressively larger ones in the house, that in total would keep me for a total of almost a month, including a tent and large tarp (in case I had to evacuate such as my house was destroyed), a bucket with a toilet seat and lots of bags to line it with, a folding military shovel, crowbar, gloves, and other things I might use to help extracate others. The larger items were kept shoved into 2 military duffelbags.

I also encourage enough canteens or collapsable water containers so that everybody has at least 1 gallon of water. These take up little room when stored, and will be impossible to find when you really need one.

The thing people need to remember that survival comes in 3 stages. First, is immediately surviving the disaster.

Second, it is getting to someplace safe.

Third, getting by until you can start to put your life back together.

To many people seem to think they can rely on the Government to get them through, bad move. Local governments are often incompetant when it comes to a disaster (look at New Orleans), and it takes on average 2-4 days for the Federal Government to respond. So for that initial time, you are going to be largely on your own.

And do not rely on forraging. First off, it is very hard to "live off the land" unless you are a real expert. Remember, hunter-gatherers usually spent 60-80% of their waking hours gathering food, and they were real experts. Plus, you are not going to be the only one with that idea. And what is to say the disaster is going to happen at a good time for such activities, or that plants and animals survived it as well?

But if you are going to forrage, the best thing you can do is make "eternal soup". Get the largest pot you can (or a small metal garbage can if there are enough in your group), keep it barely at the boiling point, and add in anything of nutrition as needed. Squirrels, domestic animals, roots, veggies, anything you can. Because it is constantly at boiling temperature, it should stay safe to eat. And even things generally considered inedible (rodents, insects, tree bark, pine needles) will add at least some neutrient value, and stretch food supplies longer among more people.

that "eternal soup?" We call it garbage soup (because you put in stuff you would have otherwise tossed in the trash) We put in all our left overs and sometimes leave it cooking for days and just keep adding to it. Not with foraging stuff, but with leftover vegetables and things like that. I usually put left over vegetables in a container in the freezer, then when I have enough to make soup, I just start dumping them in the pot, add some diced tomatoes and tomato sauce and just let it cook. We had that a lot when I was a kid too. One of my Japanese students that was visiting asked me what it was and when I told her "garbage soup", she looked it up and the look on her face was priceless. She said it was her favorite dish.

I'm gonna have to get a different radio, I have one of those hand crank ones but it also has solar and battery power. Need to add a few other things to my bug out bag too, and you're right, I'm gonna put it in my car, although I already have some survival food and water and blankets in there.

 

[PaulS1950]

How many people have "earthquake proofed" their homes?
Tying your walls and foudation together with anchor bolts.
Bolting tall furniture and bookcases to the studs in the wall.
Fastening heavy objects to the table thatthey sit on.
Using "snap-locks on cupboard doors and keeping heavy and breakable things on the lowest shelves.

What else have you done or what do you intend to do?

 

[Pogo]

How many people have "earthquake proofed" their homes?
Tying your walls and foudation together with anchor bolts.
Bolting tall furniture and bookcases to the studs in the wall.
Fastening heavy objects to the table thatthey sit on.
Using "snap-locks on cupboard doors and keeping heavy and breakable things on the lowest shelves.

What else have you done or what do you intend to do?

Since I'm sitting in the oldest mountains in the Americas, formed before the continent itself, I think I'm good here.

 

[Againsheila]

How many people have "earthquake proofed" their homes?
Tying your walls and foudation together with anchor bolts.
Bolting tall furniture and bookcases to the studs in the wall.
Fastening heavy objects to the table thatthey sit on.
Using "snap-locks on cupboard doors and keeping heavy and breakable things on the lowest shelves.

What else have you done or what do you intend to do?

I never thought of the idea of snap locks on the cupboard doors, thanks for the idea.

 

[Mushroom]

Since I'm sitting in the oldest mountains in the Americas, formed before the continent itself, I think I'm good here.

If you ever read about the New Madrid Fault zone, you might not feel so safe.

The last major earthquake in this fault zone (1812) cracked sidewalks in Washington DC, and brought down chimneys in Maine.

Even a later and milder earthquake from the same fault zone caused extensive damage as far away as New Orleans and Philadelphia.

 

[allyn211]

Are any of you ready for a natural disaster? If something happened that cut you off from power and water, the roads, whatever, how long could you survive on your own? I recommend everyone have at least 3 months worth of supplies, though I think a years worth of supplies should actually be standard. I've heard a lot of people making fun of "preppers" lately. I've even heard them complaining that they themselves can't afford to "prepare". Well guess what? It doesn't take that much. Buy some extra food every time you go to the store and it will add up. If you can't afford a water barrel, get a big plastic garbage can. Tap water keeps for 6 months and regular over the counter bleach will kill just about anything in there, that's what they use on our city water.

I don't think everyone needs to rush out and get themselves some AK 47s to protect themselves, because if ALL of us prepared for a natural disaster, then the risk of hordes of the hungry taking your supplies dwindles.

I remember being taught in school to prepare for earthquakes, for the possibility of Mt Rainier erupting. Nowadays, people who prepare are ridiculed, why is that?

I keep thinking of the victims of Sandy and how just days later they were begging for food and water from our government. If they had prepared, if their neighbors had prepared, that wouldn't be a problem, EVER! I'm not saying some of them wouldn't have lost their supplies, but if EVERYONE prepared, they could have gone to their friends and neighbors for help instead of depending on a government that seems to care very little for it's citizens.

I've spent some money on long lasting food, I've set aside a bug out bag though it needs a few more things. I'm preparing and have been for over 30 years. It's a constant thing. You rotate your food so it lasts longer. You replace your old aspirin and some of your old medical supplies which also should be set aside. Get a water filter so that if you have to depend on rivers, or lakes or even gutters, you can drink the water. I still remember some guy after Katrina drinking the filthy water from the streets without filtering it. Save up some money and buy a filter.

Does anybody here agree with me, or do you all think I'm psycho? Or is it both?

I definitely agree with you. I try to keep a full pantry and other supplies on hand, and I have a bag packed with necessities that I can "grab and go" if necessary.

 

[squeeze berry]

IMO it's important to do a " risk assessment" for where you live.

We have lived in the same area since 1997 and the worst problems we have encountered are losing power for up to 5 days at a time and being snowed in for 2 weeks.

If one happens , but not the other it will not be too bad. If both happen it will be an issue.

The worst was several years ago when we were snowed in for 2 weeks, but still had power. So for that reason I like to have a minimum of 3 weeks of supplies on hand.

1. food
2. water
3. pet supplies
4. firewood and portable propane bottles for heat.
5. water purification tabs
6. batteries, candles, oil lamps


When we get wind of an approaching storm we do whatever we can to prepare

1. check our supplies
2. go to store for any needed supplies immediately before the rush
3. take showers, run vacuum cleaner and fill flush buckets for the toilets, charge cell phones
4. fill up cars
5. hunker down with a bottle of brandy

Our power goes out quite often b/c our area has trees that fall and down power lines and we get snowed in for a day or two a couple times a year on average so we are used to this by now and so is everyone else in our general area so they are likely prepped too.

95% of the time our power is restored within 12 hours.
95% of the time the snow plows come within 32 hours

The winter we had 3 feet of snow in 24 hours I can remember sitting in the hot tub ( in the master bath) looking out the window watching it snow with a cocktail.

In case of a real emergency we feel somewhat prepared. Panic should subside and order restored within 2 weeks anyway.


The Mayan calendar was a fraud and I don't believe in zombies. If someone wants my stuff they will need to do it wading through snow.

advantage me.

 

[Againsheila]

IMO it's important to do a " risk assessment" for where you live.

We have lived in the same area since 1997 and the worst problems we have encountered are losing power for up to 5 days at a time and being snowed in for 2 weeks.

If one happens , but not the other it will not be too bad. If both happen it will be an issue.

The worst was several years ago when we were snowed in for 2 weeks, but still had power. So for that reason I like to have a minimum of 3 weeks of supplies on hand.

1. food
2. water
3. pet supplies
4. firewood and portable propane bottles for heat.
5. water purification tabs
6. batteries, candles, oil lamps


When we get wind of an approaching storm we do whatever we can to prepare

1. check our supplies
2. go to store for any needed supplies immediately before the rush
3. take showers, run vacuum cleaner and fill flush buckets for the toilets, charge cell phones
4. fill up cars
5. hunker down with a bottle of brandy

Our power goes out quite often b/c our area has trees that fall and down power lines and we get snowed in for a day or two a couple times a year on average so we are used to this by now and so is everyone else in our general area so they are likely prepped too.

95% of the time our power is restored within 12 hours.
95% of the time the snow plows come within 32 hours

The winter we had 3 feet of snow in 24 hours I can remember sitting in the hot tub ( in the master bath) looking out the window watching it snow with a cocktail.

In case of a real emergency we feel somewhat prepared. Panic should subside and order restored within 2 weeks anyway.


The Mayan calendar was a fraud and I don't believe in zombies. If someone wants my stuff they will need to do it wading through snow.

advantage me.

I don't believe in zombies either, but let's face it, if you are prepared for the zombie apocalypse, you are prepared for anything.

 

[Foxfyre]

There is a difference between planning for a snowstorm and planning for a major disaster I think. When we lived up on the mountain, three-foot snows were not all that uncommon, and we knew it could be a few days before we would be able to get out. So when we got the forecast, everybody stocked up on the essentials--some ready to eat stuff if we lost power; some extra drinking water--the pump didn't work when the power went out--and all the essentials--bread, peanut butter, popcorn etc. But we realistically didn't need to plan ahead for more than a few days.

When you are talking possibly weeks of having to rely on yourself alone, however, that is a much different scenario. Here in Albuquerque, sitting on an ancient major fault that could generate an 8.5 or higher earthquake at any time, the devastation would likely be complete. Those who survived it would most likely have to leave the area and most likely would need assistance to do that. If there was enough left of our house to retrive some stored water and food that would be a good thing. But you wonder if you would even have that. On the other hand, this area is simply not prone to the floods, violent storms, etc. that occur in other parts of the country.

Most of us simply cannot plan for every contingency and take a calculated risk on where the point of diminishing returns is. Do we enjoy life as it comes to us? Or put all our resources into planning for something that is not likely to happen but could? I guess I am one who is willing to take her chances beyond a three or four week time frame.

 

[Swagger]

What's the bigger picture for preppers, though?

In my opinion it extends far beyong the consequences of a conventional disaster. In my opinion, their almost hive mindset (which isn't a bad thing) is geared towards preparing for an 'event' after which a return to 'normal' isn't possible, or is going to take such a time to achieve that the traditional status quo between government/authority has been altered or irrevocably erroded. And the mindset seems to be that they'll exploit that vacuum for their own ends. Whether they want to increase their own lot in life, or simply want to remould society. Although either alternative isn't mutually exclusive. But this remoulding often presents an image - normally undisputed by those presenting it - that this new society would, by-and-large, be free from excessive authority. Almost analogues with libertarian ideals.

The above may explain why these people, who are prepared to imagine the worst, are maligned and marginalised by the mainstream. They've dared to imagine what they'd have to do in order to survive, as opposed to what they expect the government to do in the event of some event or disaster that turned the world - locally or nationally - on its head. I belive that they're marginalised because they show signs of being capable of breaking their bonds with the grid. Becoming largely less relient on the grid and energy infrastructure in their day-to-day lives. This mindset is spreading, I some people stand to lose a lot of money, power and influence if more and more people eschew the image of a bandana-wearing, paranoid hick who uses the alleged end of the world as an excuse to stockpile weapons, in favour of the increasingly middle-class element who are genuinely concerned with what'll happen in the future after witnessing and experiencing a worldwide economic crash that they though beyond possible on the scale we've all seen.

Furthermore, what are your personal perceptions of preppers once you've seen past the media stereotype?

Personally speaking, I see a group of incredibly resourceful individuals who have dared to imagine the worst, and see no reason why they shouldn't prepare themselves for it. I think that this is a good mentality to foster, as it often manifests itself elsewhere, too. I don't know about you, but going into business with someone who's willing to acknowledge that the worse is indeed possible, and have provisioned for it, seems a lot safer than someone who hasn't or won't.