Zone1 Pope Leo Says Not to Pray to Mary

[Ropey]

The Catholic world is on fire after Pope Leo XIV issued one of the most explosive statements in modern Vatican history — rejecting the long-held idea that Mary can act as a “co-redeemer” or spiritual mediator. In simple terms: stop praying to Mary for salvation and go directly to Jesus.

So, when a Catholic prays to Mary to intercede for them....

...just who is listening to those prayers?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

While Mary is honored as the mother of Jesus and a faithful servant (Luke 1:38, 46-55), the Scriptures do not describe her as omnipresent or capable of hearing prayers from heaven.



So, who is listening to your prayers to Mary, asking her to intercede for you, pray tell?

Pun intended.

And my real question:

BQ: Do those prayers of intercession even reach Jesus/G-d?

 

[SaxonJackson]

According to the Bible, there is ONE mediator between God and man:

1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”

We pray to Christ plus nobody.

 

[Ropey]

According to the Bible, there is ONE mediator between God and man:

1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”

According to the NT Christian Bible.

This is what I had thought. Praying to Mary for her intercession seems to be more of a female Catholic practice and not of the early church. As far as I can tell, the early church fathers prayed only to Jesus for intercession.

Nobody is listening when one prays to Mary. A Christian can pray to Jesus to give Mary words of praise, but it has to go through Jesus.

Am I correct?

 

[August West]

I went to Catholic school in the 60s and I don`t recall any talk from priests or nuns about praying to Mary.

 

[ding]

So, when a Catholic prays to Mary to intercede for them....

...just who is listening to those prayers?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

While Mary is honored as the mother of Jesus and a faithful servant (Luke 1:38, 46-55), the Scriptures do not describe her as omnipresent or capable of hearing prayers from heaven.



So, who is listening to your prayers to Mary, asking her to intercede for you, pray tell?

Pun intended.

And my real question:

BQ: Do those prayers of intercession even reach Jesus/G-d?

I believe they do. Of course I always thought prayer was for our benefit. So whether they do or not, don't we still benefit?

 

[Ropey]

I believe they do.

Then this is one of the differences with Judaism and Christianity.

Judaism believes that we are stored away for the Apocalypse and not capable of hearing prayers.

Of course I always thought prayer was for our benefit.

So not omnipresent?

imo

It is for our rememberance and as a blessing of memory to an omnipresent G-d.

So whether they do or not, don't we still benefit?

As blessings of rememberances and possible forgiveness since G-did not say, "Forgiveness is mine". We can pray for others and that will effect the judgement, imo.

As a Jew, I believe that after we die, there is no chance to forgive, until at the table of judgement... when we face the adversary & our accusers. We are simply not capable in that state... until the return.

 

[ding]

Then this is one of the differences with Judaism and Christianity.

Judaism believes that we are stored away for the Apocalypse and not capable of hearing prayers.



So not omnipresent?

imo

It is for our rememberance and as a blessing of memory to an omnipresent G-d.



As blessings of rememberances and possible forgiveness since G-did not say, "Forgiveness is mine". We can pray for others and that will effect the judgement, imo.

As a Jew, I believe that after we die, there is no chance to forgive, until at the table of judgement when we face the adversary & our accusers. We are simply not capable in that state... until the return.

There are many differences just as there are many similarities. For instance we believe in praying for the dead, we believe that God is the source of existence, we believe that God created the universe from nothing, etc.

To me the whole omnipresent argument is meaningless because I believe heaven is being eternally united with God and hell is being eternally separated from God.

I believe that no one knows their fate or the fate of others.

 

[Ropey]

There are many differences just as there are many similarities. For instance we believe in praying for the dead, we believe that God is the source of existence, we believe that God created the universe from nothing, etc.

I believe that no one knows their fate or the fate of others.

I can't see an argument on my side for those beliefs.

To me the whole omnipresent argument is meaningless because I believe heaven is being eternally united with God and hell is being eternally separated from God.

Yeah, the omnipresence argument can feel abstract or beside the point when the real stakes are closeness vs. distance from the Source of all life.

The further one is from the source, the more 'hell' one's soul feels. The closer one is to the source of life, the more comfort one feels. It is a good thing that we are stored away in a fallen state and not allowed to taste of the tree of life until the cleansing.

The goal of mitzvot and teshuva is precisely to draw nearer to that union here and now, so it just continues (and still perfects) what we've already tasted or lost.

 

[1srelluc]

Makes sense, no middle woman needed.

 

[Ropey]

Makes sense, no middle woman needed.

Don't you be calling Mary an intercessionary bag-lady now.

 

[Meriweather]

So, when a Catholic prays to Mary to intercede for them....

So, once again a Pope had to clarify to some Catholics that Mary is not a "co-redemptrix". Since I was a kid (decades ago) some argued Mary should be elevated to this level, and it has been nixed ever since. Apparently some tried to get Pope Leo to do this--and like Pope Benedict, Pope Francis--and even the Second Vatican Council--rejected the argument.

As ever, Catholics do ask Mary (not to mention all the angels and saints) to pray to God along with us and for us. This happens at every Mass, and Mass is said daily--often more than once, depending on the parish.

In other words, not a thing has changed, and as ever, those who keep harassing the Vatican and Popes to elevate Mary to something she has never been, have again made the news--to no avail. No change.

 

[1srelluc]

Don't you be calling Mary an intercessionary bag-lady now.

Well I guess "Hail Mary full of grace" got the 82nd across the Waal river.

 

[Ropey]

Well I guess "Hail Mary full of grace" got the 82nd across the Waal river.

Blood & Guts did that ... the cost of freedom.

The battle is real, on many fronts and principalities.

 

[JGalt]

According to the NT Christian Bible.

This is what I had thought. Praying to Mary for her intercession seems to be more of a female Catholic practice and not of the early church. As far as I can tell, the early church fathers prayed only to Jesus for intercession.

Nobody is listening when one prays to Mary. A Christian can pray to Jesus to give Mary words of praise, but it has to go through Jesus.

Am I correct?

Only Catholics believe in prayers to Mary. That was defined by Pope Pius XII on 1 November 1950 in his apostolic constitution. Biblical Christians believe that the "dead in Christ" will not enter heaven until the Second Coming, but will remain in the grave until then, their souls in a conscious, blissful communion with the Lord.

 

[Ropey]

Only Catholics believe in prayers to Mary. That was defined by Pope Pius XII on 1 November 1950 in his apostolic constitution. Biblical Christians believe that the "dead in Christ" will not enter heaven until the Second Coming, but will remain in the grave until then, their souls in a conscious, blissful communion with the Lord.

Coptic Christians are Egyptian in background and they speak a dialect of Egyptian.

Mary is a central tenant to their faith and she's a saint for intercesion and prayed to as well.

This may be where it stems from since Catholocism was yet to be around when the Copts were working their belief system out.

 

[JGalt]

Coptic Christians are Egyptian in background and they speak a dialect of Egyptian.

Mary is a central tenant to their faith and she's a saint for intercesion and prayed to as well.

This may be where it stems from since Catholocism was yet to be around when the Copts were working their belief system out.

Protestantism was created because the Catholic church wasn't adhering to the tenants of Biblical Christianity. I'm surprised it still exists, because the only true Christian belief system is all there in black and white, in the New Testament.

 

[Invisibleflash]

So, when a Catholic prays to Mary to intercede for them....

...just who is listening to those prayers?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

While Mary is honored as the mother of Jesus and a faithful servant (Luke 1:38, 46-55), the Scriptures do not describe her as omnipresent or capable of hearing prayers from heaven.



So, who is listening to your prayers to Mary, asking her to intercede for you, pray tell?

Pun intended.

And my real question:

BQ: Do those prayers of intercession even reach Jesus/G-d?

Yes, that's right. It is all manmade gobbledygook, so do as you like. It does not matter one bit.

 

[luiza]

So, when a Catholic prays to Mary to intercede for them....

...just who is listening to those prayers?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

While Mary is honored as the mother of Jesus and a faithful servant (Luke 1:38, 46-55), the Scriptures do not describe her as omnipresent or capable of hearing prayers from heaven.



So, who is listening to your prayers to Mary, asking her to intercede for you, pray tell?

Pun intended.

And my real question:

BQ: Do those prayers of intercession even reach Jesus/G-d?

She was the one that had an affair with a stranger and produced an illegitimate as she was already married to a simpleton named Joseph .

Not a great start for that Jesus character .
No wonder he disappeared aged 12 and became an Essene monk .

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So, when a Catholic prays to Mary to intercede for them....

...just who is listening to those prayers?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

While Mary is honored as the mother of Jesus and a faithful servant (Luke 1:38, 46-55), the Scriptures do not describe her as omnipresent or capable of hearing prayers from heaven.



So, who is listening to your prayers to Mary, asking her to intercede for you, pray tell?

Pun intended.

And my real question:

BQ: Do those prayers of intercession even reach Jesus/G-d?

I turned away from this Church 5 decades ago, it’s not for me

 

[Ropey]

View attachment 1223928

You expressed your ignorance before saying anything, so there is that.