Poll: High-Speed Rail for $53b

[CrusaderFrank]

First, it will cost a multiple of the estimated $53B

Second, it is guaranteed to lose money; it will be like the Bionic Amtark. "we can make it more expensive, more costly and we will"

Third, do you see how serious Barack Milli Vanilli Obama is about cutting spending? Do you see it?

 

[westwall]

I like the idea but unfortunately our Government cannot afford it. Spending more money we don't have will not help our Economy in the end. Now if this was a private venture,it would be good news all around. Maybe the President can hit is good buddies up over at Google & GE for the cash? He has a very cozy relationship with these Corporations so maybe he can convince them to pony up the $53 Billion. They certainly have the cash. This is just the wrong time to propose this kind of Government spending extravagance. He really should look to the Private Sector on this one.

Can we afford not to come up with alternatives to oil intensive modes of transportation?

Just how little energy do you think these things use? They consume MASS quantities of power. To go coast to coast you'd have to build at least 50 new power plants to power these things.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm hoping it gets some of those big rigs off the roads

Most long-haul truck freight goes on the rail now, as it is cheaper. The only time it doesnt is when time matters, and, because of the interface on both ends, HSR won't change that to any significant degree.

 

[Faccops]

Well, I assume that he can't spend the $53B (for starters, as is being silently understood) without congressional approval. Thankfully, the new Congress seems to have a fiscal mandate (I hope).

They're struggling with trying to balance the budget, and Obama makes statements like this $53B brand new project to throw in there?

 

[westwall]

Can we afford not to come up with alternatives to oil intensive modes of transportation?

Isn't the private sector already doing/developing that via electric cars that continue to get more popular?

As somebody said: the U.S. just has too many square miles for high speed trains to be our solution.

You have a defeatist attitude.

How is common semse being defeatist? You need a dose of reality.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I'm hoping it gets some of those big rigs off the roads

Most long-haul truck freight goes on the rail now, as it is cheaper. The only time it doesnt is when time matters, and, because of the interface on both ends, HSR wont change that to any significant degree.

Oh, I can see it now... a flatcar laden with cargo containers stacked to the hilt going 120 mph.

Oh what fun!

 

[westwall]

Thanks to conservatives, the US is falling behind more forward thinking countries. Germany is advanced in solar energy. China is working hard to try to eclipse (no pun intended) all other countries in the development of solar power technology. All of Europe is developing an integrated wind power grid. Brazil already has an advanced system of ethanol powered cars and trucks which keeps it from being dependent on ME oil. Of course, none of these ideas would have gotten very far without the partnership of the respective gov'ts in all these countries.

Unfortunately, the modern day conservative mentality is to try to stand in the way of American success if Obama can take any credit for it at all. Some conservatives are like children in that sense. Given the choice between American success under a Democrat administration or American failure as our country loses ground to China, India and others in the new global competition, they choose failure in the hope that will allow them to regain power. Those are signs of shortsighted selfishness and emotional immaturity.

Conservatives have nothing against investing in R&D for alternative solutions....but they are against negative forcing...

Obama shut down the oil wells in the Gulf....offshore California is off limits....Alaska is off limits....nuclear power has been curtailed....we have the biggest coal and natural gas supplies in the world but regulations get in the way.....and on and on...tell me again it's the conservatives trying to keep us dependent on ME oil...

It is wrong in a free society to like force electric cars upon a free people from the top down....as BO is attempting to do...

It is wrong in a free society to cause electricity costs to skyrocket from the top down....as BO is attempting to do...

Let the markets work freely...it's the best way to solve the problems...

Conservatives lost this "force on a free society" argument..a long time ago, when their presidents forced agendas down the throats of the American citizens.

Please show us any political party that hasn't done that, C'mon Sallow you're smarter than that.

 

[kwc57]

With a plane you only need to protect the entry points to the plane. How do you protect a thousand miles of track? Knocking off a train will kill more passengers than a plane

Well, if you run them down the median of the interstate system, it becomes a little obvious when Mohammed and Hakim are trying to strap a bomb to a pylon. Terrorist use things that strike fear into peoples hearts. Many people fear flying and falling 30,000 feet out of the sky. How many people do you know who fear riding on a train? While they COULD kill more people on a train, the psychological impact just ins't the same and that is part of what they are looking for. We already have passenger trains and busses. How many terrorist attackes against them have you heard of? The only difference between a passenger train and HSR is speed.

You've never heard of a car bomb either?

Why yes, yes I have. My office is 6 blocks away from the Murrah Federal Building that asshole Timothy McVeigh blew up using a Ryder truck. I was sitting in my office that morning. I remember it well. We had fortunately put our son in a daycare about a mile north of the Murrah Building. Had we known they had a daycare 6 blocks from my office and 3 blocks from my wife, we probably would have put him there since it was within easy walking distance.

All that being said, I refuse to live in fear and change my way of life. When we do that, they have won.....their objective has been met. I won't trade my freedom for security. I don't believe that busses or trains are as high value targets as airplanes are. There just isn't the same fear factor involved and that ultimately is their goal. Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Faccops]

Well, if you run them down the median of the interstate system, it becomes a little obvious when Mohammed and Hakim are trying to strap a bomb to a pylon.

If these trains are connecting cities that are hundreds of miles apart, a terrorist could go way out in the country where the traffic is lighter, and wait until there's no cars in sight, run to the median, booby-trap it, and get out of there.

 

[westwall]

Of the proposed lines. I just don't see the level of ridership to justify the costs

Tampa- Orlando

Not a major business link. Traffic sucks but what do you do when you get to either Tampa or Orlando? Neither has a significant mass transit system to get you around town. Would be nice for people in Tampa to get to Disney and back, but why spend the money to support Disney/Universal?

San Diego- San Fransisco

This is California and there is not a cultural attraction to Rail travel. Cars are king and most will still prefer either driving or flying from LA to San Fran. Six hour drive/ One hour flight is a 2 1/2 hr train going to draw much from either?

It's not even the cultural aspect of it, it is the convenience factor. If you drive from San Diego to San Francisco you have a vehicle. The drive up 101 is beautiful and there are lots of places to stop and eat and be a tourista. If you must do business you fly and save hours, just as you say the ability to schedule a flight near the end of the day makes any business travel far easier.

It's not culture or anti progressive to think HSR is a problem, it is common sense.

 

[AllieBaba]

I'm all for cross country mass transit. But electric? REALLY? Why even bother? It will never run anywhere near efficiently at all, and will at times crash altogether.

 

[signelect]

When I lived in Mystic, CT they change the rail from gas to electric from some where near New York City to Boston. This was so people could get from Boston to NYC about 30 minutes faster. We will spend billions so a small but vocal few can get there faster, to do what? It ruined the view on the coast with all the electrical power poles for nothing. This is just anyother congress ploy to get some relatives and friend on the gov't payroll. I vote NO

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm hoping it gets some of those big rigs off the roads

Most long-haul truck freight goes on the rail now, as it is cheaper. The only time it doesnt is when time matters, and, because of the interface on both ends, HSR wont change that to any significant degree.

Oh, I can see it now... a flatcar laden with cargo containers stacked to the hilt going 120 mph.
Oh what fun!

Never mind the massive amout of energy - from coal fired plants - necessary to move it that fast.

Locomotives average around 468 miles per gallon per ton across all terrain types. The only thing more efficient is bulk water transportation.

 

[Political Junky]

I'm all for cross country mass transit. But electric? REALLY? Why even bother? It will never run anywhere near efficiently at all, and will at times crash altogether.

Have you heard of those crashes in Europe, China or Japan?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

AMTRAK loses money because Congress forces them to keep unprofitable lines through their districts.

I still don't see how high speed rail other than the Boston- DC corridor can turn a profit.

The infrastructure needed between point A and point B would never be warranted when you can just fly from point A to point B

They do well in Europe. The problem is speed.

There are only two HSR systems worldwide that don't require extensive government subsidies to remain in operation.

Tokyo-Osaka
Paris-Lyon

Two very busy lines... but not profitable...they only break even...

“High-speed rail is good for society and it’s good for the environment, but it’s not a profitable business,” said Mr. Barrón of the International Union of Railways. He reckons that only two routes in the world — between Tokyo and Osaka, and between Paris and Lyon, France — have broken even.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/30/b...l=1&adxnnlx=1297285439-0nEwN/6P0PVM4WaPc16bgg

 

[M14 Shooter]

Tokyo-Osaka
Paris-Lyon
Two very busy lines... but not profitable...they only break even...

Which explains why we dont have it - the market doesn't want it.

 

[Zander]

Yeah, let’s definitely spend those billions we don’t have to make choo choo trains!! Because if one thing is holding back our economy it’s not having enough choo choo trains. Then, after we use our advanced technology to build a better choo choo train, let’s focus our science on inventing a better horseshoe!! We need Horsey power too!! It's super green!!!!

 

[The T]

All one needs do is look at AMTRAK and it's constant losses.

Better left to private enterprise if the need truly exists.

 

[kwc57]

Well, if you run them down the median of the interstate system, it becomes a little obvious when Mohammed and Hakim are trying to strap a bomb to a pylon.

If these trains are connecting cities that are hundreds of miles apart, a terrorist could go way out in the country where the traffic is lighter, and wait until there's no cars in sight, run to the median, booby-trap it, and get out of there.

Very true. Remind me again how many times this has happened to a passenger train in the US. Why would a HSR train be more enticing to a terrorist that a regular passenger train. When we start NOT doing things because we worry about the possibility of how a terrorist COULD attack it, they have won.

 

[Zander]

Angry Egyptian Camel man wants more camel power. Surely Obama can find a way to build more choo choo trains AND supply more camels?