Poll: Americans Want Obama to Negotiate

[P@triot]

Obama doesn't need to negotiate, he's the President. The Republicans need to stop acting like fools and start acting like the adults they supposedly are.

Sweetie, being president in the U.S. does not mean "dictator". He has no power. Obama has finally (and properly, mind you) been rendered the impotent little man that he actually is.

After violating the Constitution dozens of times by circumventing Congress, they finally put him in his place.

 

[P@triot]

October 3 2013~
Let the nay saying begin!

"A majority of Americans want President Obama to negotiate with Congress over the debt ceiling, and nearly two-thirds oppose raising the debt without significant spending reforms attached, according to a recent poll from Ending Spending and the American Action Forum.

House Speaker John Boehner (R., Ohio) said Wednesday following a meeting at the White House that the president had ”reiterated one more time tonight that he will not negotiate.” Obama and most Democrats favor a “clean” debt-ceiling hike without spending reforms attached. Meanwhile, House GOP leaders are said to be working on a larger budget deal to end the government and raise the debt ceiling with reforms."

Poll: Americans Want Obama to Negotiate | National Review Online

KEY FINDINGS
1. AN OPPORTUNITY: Obama is badly bruised. The President's numbers aren't strong, with an underwater approval rating (43% approve, 49% disapprove), and a generic congressional ballot that has Republicans ahead by 4 points (40% GOP, 36%DEM)

Just read the rest yourself:

http://www.endingspending.com/docs/debtceilingpoll.pdf

What percentage of Americans actually understand what the debt ceiling is?

The Poll says nothing about the ACA being tied to the debt. It seems to indicate Americans favor some more spending cuts.

What about raising taxes on those making over 1 Million, raising capital gains, raising the estate tax... Getting rid of loopholes.

Because we don't have enough taxes already?

The battle cry of the Dumbocrat - hate successful people, punish them for their success, and then spend some more!

 

[P@triot]

That would only count as "consent" if saying "no" was a viable option. WHich it wasn't.

Sure it was. Why would he ask if it wasn't an option?

he wouldn't have. It wasn't a question. Just like when he asked all the other slaves, "Hey, who feels like picking tobacco today?"

Um. Nope. They were picking tobacco whether they felt like it or not.

That's what slavery is. Certainly, you understand THAT concept, since squealing about "Freedom" is like your answer to everything.

"He wouldn't have"...

Joe continues to make up his own version of history. What's the over/under on how long it takes until he starts claiming he was there and witnessed the "rape"?

 

[P@triot]

[

The best indications are that his brother *may* have been the father and DNA exonerated Thomas Jefferson. And yes, she could have consented. She could have been crazy about his brother. But only a libtard would call consensual sex "rape" because - well - libtards desperately need a narrative that demonizes their opponents since libtards stand firmly on the wrong side of the facts and firmly against the Constitution.

Except DNA did nothing of the sort.

And, no, you can't "consent" when you are "property", something the founders were totally cool with.

Yes you can consent if you are asked anything. Repeating your stupidity over and over is only embarrassing yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

3 points....

One I think it's kind of cool that Jefferson is a maternal cousin of my great great great great grandfather....

Second Don't the books and stories tell us of evil hard mean slave owners and slaves who were as good as free the way they were treated.... Fact is many stayed with their former owners after they were emancipated.

Third. None of this has to do with shit going on today..........

Slavery was a profound violation of human rights and something we should be completely ashamed was part of our history.

And if you don't think it has a profound effect on race relations to this very day, I think you are in denial.

 

[JoeB131]

Sure it was. Why would he ask if it wasn't an option?

he wouldn't have. It wasn't a question. Just like when he asked all the other slaves, "Hey, who feels like picking tobacco today?"

Um. Nope. They were picking tobacco whether they felt like it or not.

That's what slavery is. Certainly, you understand THAT concept, since squealing about "Freedom" is like your answer to everything.

"He wouldn't have"...

Joe continues to make up his own version of history. What's the over/under on how long it takes until he starts claiming he was there and witnessed the "rape"?

Actually, there are contemporary accounts of his treatment of this woman. But you like to pretend those don't exist, either.

your boy Jefferson was a creep. Quit idolizing him. We are a great country despite the racist, wealthy assholes who founded it, not because of them.

 

[thanatos144]

But you can consent to sex... Game. Set. Match.

No, you can't truly "consent" when you are PROPERTY.

This is why Slavery was a bad thing.

Sure they can:

Slave Owner: "Slave, would you like to have sex?"

Slave: "Yes"

Boom! Consent...! (you continue to take stupidity to previously unforeseen levels)

as much as it pains me to say so I agree with Joe on thisI don't see how a slave can give consent that is like in the modern day you say not a child cangive consent have sex with an adultneither really has the power to say no even if she loved Jefferson and consent all the way does not make it any less creepy.

 

[Seawytch]

[

What you have not proven is that Sally Hemmings was ever raped. Unless you think that each and every act of sex was a rape you have nothing to say. To all knowable evidence it was a relationship that lasted for many years. She had multiple children. It was, to all evidence, a consensual and loving relationship.

Sally Hemmings was PROPERTY.

I want to repeat that because you are kind of dense. SALLY HEMMINGS was PROPERTY.

By definition, every act of sex she had with Jefferson WAS rape because the issue of "consent" was besides the point.

Incidently, most historical movies portray Sally as black, but she was 3/4's white and resembled Jefferson's dead wife (because she was Martha Jefferson's half sister.)

If she consented (to of course what never occurred as I have proven already), it cannot be rape. Period. End of story.

A slave did not have the luxury of consent. There was no such thing. Sally Hemmings was a slave and had no right to consent or not.

For all we know, she and the lascivious Mr. Jefferson could very well have had an actual "relationship" but that was seldom the case. More often than not, it was the slave owner taking advantage of his property.

 

[Seawytch]

So? How many Republicans voted for it?

Here Are Three Debt-Ceiling Lies You’ll Hear From the GOP This Week

2. Obama is a big hypocrite because he voted against a debt-limit increase while Bush was president.

Yes, he did cast such a vote, but no, he’s not a hypocrite, not even a small one. The reason is simple. Democrats made no threats when they cast their votes. They knew they were going to lose and had no real intention of winning.

It was March 16, 2006, when Obama cast the fateful vote. But the Democrats’ votes, Obama’s included, were purely symbolic. The Republicans controlled the Senate at the time, 55-45. The increase in the debt limit, the fourth in George W. Bush’s tenure, passed, 52-48, with three Republicans voting with all the Democrats.

But the Democrats knew they were going to lose. They were in the minority; duh. They did not choose to filibuster, which they could have done and which would have meant the Republicans needed 60 votes. If they’d done so, that would have been hardball, and in that case, Obama would have been a participant in a real threat against American creditworthiness. Even then it wouldn’t have been the same as what the GOP is doing now, unless those 45 Democrats had demanded, oh, that Bush rescind his tax cuts or his Medicare Part D bill or some other signal legislative achievement.

But the Democrats did no such thing. They cast symbolic votes to force Republicans to vote to increase the debt limit. So Obama’s 2006 vote means nothing and bears no resemblance to what’s going on today.​

Then why do it [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? Because they are partisan hack HYPOCRITES!!!!!

Uh oh...puppy is using large fonts again. Viagra not working anymore?

I imagine they were doing it as a symbolic gesture...much like the GOP holding 44 votes to defund a law.

 

[P@triot]

Sally Hemmings was PROPERTY.

I want to repeat that because you are kind of dense. SALLY HEMMINGS was PROPERTY.

By definition, every act of sex she had with Jefferson WAS rape because the issue of "consent" was besides the point.

Incidently, most historical movies portray Sally as black, but she was 3/4's white and resembled Jefferson's dead wife (because she was Martha Jefferson's half sister.)

If she consented (to of course what never occurred as I have proven already), it cannot be rape. Period. End of story.

A slave did not have the luxury of consent. There was no such thing. Sally Hemmings was a slave and had no right to consent or not.

For all we know, she and the lascivious Mr. Jefferson could very well have had an actual "relationship" but that was seldom the case. More often than not, it was the slave owner taking advantage of his property.

For once you are correct on all accounts Seawytch. They could have and that was seldom the case.

The fact is, DNA exonerated Jefferson and Joe is lying through is teeth calling him a "rapist" when he was never even charged with that crime, much less convicted of it.

Joe has to try to demonize the founders because they created the Constitution which Joe hates.

 

[P@triot]

Here Are Three Debt-Ceiling Lies You’ll Hear From the GOP This Week

2. Obama is a big hypocrite because he voted against a debt-limit increase while Bush was president.

Yes, he did cast such a vote, but no, he’s not a hypocrite, not even a small one. The reason is simple. Democrats made no threats when they cast their votes. They knew they were going to lose and had no real intention of winning.

It was March 16, 2006, when Obama cast the fateful vote. But the Democrats’ votes, Obama’s included, were purely symbolic. The Republicans controlled the Senate at the time, 55-45. The increase in the debt limit, the fourth in George W. Bush’s tenure, passed, 52-48, with three Republicans voting with all the Democrats.

But the Democrats knew they were going to lose. They were in the minority; duh. They did not choose to filibuster, which they could have done and which would have meant the Republicans needed 60 votes. If they’d done so, that would have been hardball, and in that case, Obama would have been a participant in a real threat against American creditworthiness. Even then it wouldn’t have been the same as what the GOP is doing now, unless those 45 Democrats had demanded, oh, that Bush rescind his tax cuts or his Medicare Part D bill or some other signal legislative achievement.

But the Democrats did no such thing. They cast symbolic votes to force Republicans to vote to increase the debt limit. So Obama’s 2006 vote means nothing and bears no resemblance to what’s going on today.​

Then why do it [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? Because they are partisan hack HYPOCRITES!!!!!

Uh oh...puppy is using large fonts again. Viagra not working anymore?

I imagine they were doing it as a symbolic gesture...much like the GOP holding 44 votes to defund a law.

You seem awfully interested in my dick. Are you sure you're not straight sweetie?

So to be clear, you're admitting that Obama - a graduate of an Ivy League school and holding a position of representing the people - acted like a high school boy at a party who was desperate for attention and intentionally voted wrong? Wow. You just proved that the Republicans really are the only adults in the room.

 

[P@triot]

No, you can't truly "consent" when you are PROPERTY.

This is why Slavery was a bad thing.

Sure they can:

Slave Owner: "Slave, would you like to have sex?"

Slave: "Yes"

Boom! Consent...! (you continue to take stupidity to previously unforeseen levels)

as much as it pains me to say so I agree with Joe on thisI don't see how a slave can give consent that is like in the modern day you say not a child cangive consent have sex with an adultneither really has the power to say no even if she loved Jefferson and consent all the way does not make it any less creepy.

The issue is not how "creepy" a relationship was - the issue is consent. Furthermore, there was no relationship between her and Thomas Jefferson - DNA proved that.

 

[zeke]

If she consented (to of course what never occurred as I have proven already), it cannot be rape. Period. End of story.

A slave did not have the luxury of consent. There was no such thing. Sally Hemmings was a slave and had no right to consent or not.

For all we know, she and the lascivious Mr. Jefferson could very well have had an actual "relationship" but that was seldom the case. More often than not, it was the slave owner taking advantage of his property.

For once you are correct on all accounts Seawytch. They could have and that was seldom the case.

The fact is, DNA exonerated Jefferson and Joe is lying through is teeth calling him a "rapist" when he was never even charged with that crime, much less convicted of it.

Joe has to try to demonize the founders because they created the Constitution which Joe hates.

Dog?? Are you talking about "the" Thomas Jefferson? The one that lived during slave times? That one?

And you think? that white men were charged with rape for raping a slave? Maybe even convicted?

Your stupidity knows no bounds dog. None. MAtter of fact, your stupidity is astounding.
That's the only reason I read your drivel. To see if you out do yourself. You did this time.

Slave holders charged with rape?? Amazing. No wonder the Teabaggers have risen to the lofty heights they have. THey have people like you supporting them.

 

[Seawytch]

Then why do it [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? Because they are partisan hack HYPOCRITES!!!!!

Uh oh...puppy is using large fonts again. Viagra not working anymore?

I imagine they were doing it as a symbolic gesture...much like the GOP holding 44 votes to defund a law.

You seem awfully interested in my dick. Are you sure you're not straight sweetie?

So to be clear, you're admitting that Obama - a graduate of an Ivy League school and holding a position of representing the people - acted like a high school boy at a party who was desperate for attention and intentionally voted wrong? Wow. You just proved that the Republicans really are the only adults in the room.

Just showing concern for a fellow American puppy. Just wanted you to know there is medicine for your little problem.

The Democrats had a strictly symbolic vote. They KNEW it wasn't going to go anywhere, much like the GOP and their repeated votes on repealing the ACA. Are you calling them high school children desperate for attention?

 

[JoeB131]

[quo

For once you are correct on all accounts Seawytch. They could have and that was seldom the case.

The fact is, DNA exonerated Jefferson and Joe is lying through is teeth calling him a "rapist" when he was never even charged with that crime, much less convicted of it.

Isn't that like saying "Hitler was never convicted of a war crime"? because he died before the war ended?

DNA proved that Jefferson fathered Sally's children.

DNA Test Finds Evidence Of Jefferson Child by Slave - New York Times

Robert Gillespie, a lawyer in Richmond who is the head of the Monticello Association, which includes the descendants of Jefferson's two daughters, said, ''We've always agreed with mainstream historians that Jefferson wouldn't have fathered Sally Hemings's children.'' But, Mr. Gillespie said, the DNA results are ''changing my attitude.''

Mr. Gillespie said he had always believed that ''Jefferson would have shown the second set of children love and affection just as he did the first set. Apparently he was a product of the 18th century, and had a double standard.''

Dr. Ellis, author of ''American Sphinx: The Character of Thomas Jefferson,'' (Knopf, 1997), and other Jefferson scholars like Dumas Malone have long said that Jefferson did not have a relationship with Hemings. Dr. Ellis once dismissed the possibility as ''a tin can tied to Jefferson's reputation.''

Now, he said, the DNA tests have changed his mind. ''This evidence is new evidence and it seems to me to be clinching,'' he said. Dr. Ellis said circumstantial evidence, including a quotation attributed to another of Hemings's sons, James Madison, also pointed to a liaison. ''It includes the timing of her pregnancies, the physical resemblance of her children to Jefferson, and Madison saying late in life that his mother told him.''

Joe has to try to demonize the founders because they created the Constitution which Joe hates.

No, I just don't worship it. I find it fatally flawed document that has resulted in at least ONE civil war so far.

Unlike Reagan saving us from Communism and FDR saving us from Fascism and Lincoln ending slavery, the founding fathers saved us from being "Canadians".

Just can't get impressed by that.

 

[Seawytch]

Sure they can:

Slave Owner: "Slave, would you like to have sex?"

Slave: "Yes"

Boom! Consent...! (you continue to take stupidity to previously unforeseen levels)

as much as it pains me to say so I agree with Joe on thisI don't see how a slave can give consent that is like in the modern day you say not a child cangive consent have sex with an adultneither really has the power to say no even if she loved Jefferson and consent all the way does not make it any less creepy.

The issue is not how "creepy" a relationship was - the issue is consent. Furthermore, there was no relationship between her and Thomas Jefferson - DNA proved that.

No little puppy, the DNA did not prove Jefferson did not father children on Hemmings. It left questions, but there is still a "Jefferson in the woodpile".

Jeffersons Blood

 

[thanatos144]

Thomas Jefferson was a brilliant brilliant man yeah that does not excuse to do abuse of power over his slaves you can romanticize it all you want is just wrong to treat somebody as property. He knew this and having sex with said person with no power it's just as wrong

 

[P@triot]

Uh oh...puppy is using large fonts again. Viagra not working anymore?

I imagine they were doing it as a symbolic gesture...much like the GOP holding 44 votes to defund a law.

You seem awfully interested in my dick. Are you sure you're not straight sweetie?

So to be clear, you're admitting that Obama - a graduate of an Ivy League school and holding a position of representing the people - acted like a high school boy at a party who was desperate for attention and intentionally voted wrong? Wow. You just proved that the Republicans really are the only adults in the room.

Just showing concern for a fellow American puppy. Just wanted you to know there is medicine for your little problem.

The Democrats had a strictly symbolic vote. They KNEW it wasn't going to go anywhere, much like the GOP and their repeated votes on repealing the ACA. Are you calling them high school children desperate for attention?

No - the GOP really does want to repeal the AHCA. You're claiming the Dumbocrats never wanted to prevent the debt ceiling from being raised (which is true of course because you ignorant socialists live for government spending) - so you're admitting they took their critical job of voting for the constituents across the nation and used it like a frat house prank.

Once again proving that Republicans are the only adults in the room.

 

[P@triot]

Thomas Jefferson was a brilliant brilliant man yeah that does not excuse to do abuse of power over his slaves you can romanticize it all you want is just wrong to treat somebody as property. He knew this and having sex with said person with no power it's just as wrong

Except he didn't have sex with her and DNA proved that.

 

[JoeB131]

I think this discussion of Jefferson would be better had in the History section, but one point I want to address.

Poodles' go to excuse was that Jefferson's brother fathered Sally's kids, which would explain why they all have the same Y Chromosone. So it was somehow better that he pimped out his slaves to his brother? Really?

(Keep in mind, I won't let my brother borrow my power tools, but never mind.)

Here's the thing, though, all the historical accounts indicate that because she was the half-sister to Jefferson's late wife, she bore an uncanny resemblence to her. While it would be nice to think of Sally as a poor woman of color, she was in fact 3/4s white.

So once you established that a Jefferson was having not-really-consensual-because-you-are-property sex with her, the most likely guy is the one who is likely to have a fetish that she looks like his dead wife.