Politics Divides, the Gospel Unites

[Old Rocks]

So much of my experience has been that the left is anti-religion. They want God out of schools, out of government, out of society. If we could bring America back to God, I have no doubt we could bring the Democrat Party back to real liberals and away from the socialists/marxists/communists/fascists/statists who have hijacked it.

I agree. Praise Allah!

 

[Old Rocks]

And why does any of the above items need to be taight in school? If nothing else to fight ignorance and bigotry.

And where did anyone say anything about teaching religion in school?

You should really learn how to read and then comprehend what you read. There have been instances of schools forcing cheerleaders to take down their signs because they included religious references, instances of schools banning the speeches of valedictorians because they included religious references, and a whole lot more.

There is a huge difference between allowing God to be in our schools and teaching God in our schools.

Wasn't aware that anyone had kicked God out of school. Maybe that's why he was so ignorant as to kill everything on earth but a couple of each type of animals over a little sinning.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

In a perfect world, Christianity (or even the more generic faith in God) would be uniting.

But, in our modern, imperfect world, too much of Christianity identifies themselves not so much as followers of the Lamb, but followers of the GOP agenda. Beginning in the 1970's with people like Jerry Falwelll and Pat Robertson, a deliberate movement was started to co-opt Christ into the Republican Party and adopt the party's platform as defacto evidence of true Christian "faith."

That this doctrine of devils has succeeded is admirably demonstrated by the OP's assertion that liberals (a political definition) can't possibly be Christian's. Very often, we even hear non-conforming (i.e. non-conservative) Christian's identified as enemies of Christ!

The Jesus Christ of the Evangelical movement is anything but uniting because the message supposedly coming from Him is intolerant, unforgiving, bigoted and selfish.

That's not the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

The world despised Jesus Christ and he warned his disciples they would be hated too. This is a completely normal analysis for a worldly person. The gospel of Jesus Christ is foolishness to them because they are perishing. ( the bible says ) Jesus Christ came to send a sword, not peace. He said so.

Within our very own families this sword would be felt. How many conservatives here can attest the fact that their faith has been tried severely by non christian family members who seem intent on mocking the very G-d you worship? For some of you - you must wonder if satan himself didn't hand pick some of your inlaws! Right? Oh yeah, I am speaking to a few folks here. lol......

The Lord warned us this would happen. He said a mans enemies would even be members of his own household. Remember that? So don't be surprised when the world hates you. Do not be surprised by your own family members, even your own children could hate you because of your faith in Jesus Christ. Some will turn you in for it and believe they are doing God a service by doing so. This was foretold also.

Still, the fact remains. Those that endure until the end the same shall be saved. I don't believe in the rapture and am not expecting an early departure for myself or anyone else. I won't be at any chicken wedding dinner in heaven throwing the left over bones down below upon the heads of the "left behind Hebrews" on earth and to think anyone else would believe we are going to have a wedding feast without the Jews makes me sick quite frankly. But enough on that subject........


Prior to China becoming a communist nation the christians were told by their chinese pastors that they would be raptured so there was no need to fear the communist takeover. They would be gone. Communism took over and they didn't disappear on a cloud. Instead they were taken to camps, prisons - tortured for Christ - enduring unspeakable horrors and many had great resentments in their hearts over having been lied to by their pastors. The same thing is happening today. Turn on your tv and listen to Joel Osteen speaking to his 15,000 member itching ears church. Is he preparing them for the greatest trial of their lives that is just at the door here for Americans? No. He is teaching you the lifestyles of the rich and the famous... to expect more, the best, you're the kings kids afterall...... yes, that message isn't going to help you out one bit when the nation has been hit by a russian nuclear strike on all four corners and you are under siege with no food to feed your little ones. In that day evangelists such as Osteen will be hiding in shame for having failed the body of Christ so miserably and for what? For sermons on filthy lucre? You must be kidding me. My bible says that to love this world is to be at enmity with God. What are christians doing lusting after Bentleys, mansions and a luxious lifestyle? I cannot find Paul mentioning any such thing, can you? - Jeremiah p.s. I spoke with a baptist on the phone a few weeks ago who said to me, I am not going to concern myself with what Obama is doing ( fema camps, martial law plans, holding citizens indefinitely without charges or a crime commited - etc ) because we are going to be raptured and will never live a single day under communism here. ( in so many words this was her thinking about the situation at hand ) I didn't argue with her over it because the bible says we should not be in silly disputes ( pre trib mid trib end trib no trib rapture ) over such things. It only reinforced my belief that the majority of the church is not ready for what is about to take place inside the United States of America. If they are not ready just imagine how unprepared the rest of you are. Oh yeah. Think about it for a minute.

- Jeremiah

 

[P@triot]

And why does any of the above items need to be taight in school? If nothing else to fight ignorance and bigotry.

And where did anyone say anything about teaching religion in school?

You should really learn how to read and then comprehend what you read. There have been instances of schools forcing cheerleaders to take down their signs because they included religious references, instances of schools banning the speeches of valedictorians because they included religious references, and a whole lot more.

There is a huge difference between allowing God to be in our schools and teaching God in our schools.

Wasn't aware that anyone had kicked God out of school. Maybe that's why he was so ignorant as to kill everything on earth but a couple of each type of animals over a little sinning.

You could fill a Congressional library and endless warehouses with the things you are "aren't aware" of... so you're confession here comes as a surprise to no one.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

lol... your reply reminds me of my sons response to his teacher in the 3rd grade. He was a brilliant little fellow - studied chess seriously at the age of 8 - became state champion at age 10... his teacher was always pushing him. He was exasperated at my sons response of I don't know! So he said to him, What do you know? What do you know? My son being just as exasperated as his teacher was, replied - I know that what you don't know would fill a warehouse.

I couldn't believe he said that to him and wasn't happy to hear of it but years later he told me the liberal teachers are not that bright, mom. They don't know how to "THINK". He discovered it while trying to teach one of his teachers how to play chess. He said they were hopeless because they had no imagination and didn't know how to think.. He told me I don't know what happened to their imaginations but they fear thinking on their own. What an astute observation. I think he was only 15 when he told me he perceived that to be the main problem of liberals. They are not FREE THINKERS. - Jeremiah

 

[Uncensored2008]

Both anecdotal and irrelevant.

And your ‘experience’ is severely limited.

The vast majority of liberals are Christian; that majority grows even larger when you include all persons of all faiths.

Consequently, your notion that ‘the left’ is ‘anti-religion’ is ignorant idiocy.

Your lack of integrity does not alter reality.

{ Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.} Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

What you incorrectly perceive as ‘anti-religion’ on the part of liberals is in fact their correct and accurate understanding of the Framers intent with regard to separation of church and state, where the Establishment Clause clearly prohibits conjoining religious dogma and secular law.

You're not a liberal, you are a leftist.

You of the left have extreme hostility toward Christians. The main goal is the destruction of the culture so that you may move forward with the establishment of the totalitarian state. Those who view God as the ultimate authority, will by necessity not hold the state and it's rulers as the ultimate authority. This is intolerable to you of the left, who demand unquestioning obedience to the rulers of the state.

No one is seeking to ‘get god out of schools,’ or any other venue, for that matter. Rather, various jurisdictions are obeying the Constitution and its case law with regard to freedom from state sponsored religion, where government may neither sanction nor compel adherence to a given faith.

Bullshit.

You of the left violate the 1st amendment repeatedly by infringing the free exercise therein.

Or violate the good conscience of any person, to believe or not to believe, free from religious extremism, as might be authorized by the state.

Is that why leftists sue to ban Christmas trees and even the word "Christmas?"

 

[Uncensored2008]

You said:

"So much of my experience has been that the left is anti-religion."

If one is "anti-religion," how can one possibly be a Christian?

The left is generally anti-Christian - that is a fact. (Though Islam is embraced by the American left.)

And your question is as stupid as "If the GOP is anti-gay marriage, how can any Republicans possibly be homosexuals?"

 

[Uncensored2008]

Our founders NEVER intended the "seperation of church and state" - and that is simply an undeniable fact.

It is? Prove it.

Thomas Jefferson wrote of a wall of separation between church and state in his letter to the Danbury Baptists. IF this meant what you Obamunists claim, how is it that Jefferson, as President, approved federal funds to Christian Universities and to pay for a staff Chaplin?

 

[Foxfyre]

You guys just don't get it; it's not about getting God out of schools, it's about not forcing our view of God on anyone. When you talk about wanting God back in the schools, you are talking about your view of God. How about this? If you want God back in the schools so much, how about we bring Allah into our schools? They can teach the Koran and our kids can pray five times per day to Allah. Does that sound like what you want in our schools?

I didn't think so.

You do realize that any child can pray in school on their own, right? If parents choose to raise their children with religious indoctrination, that is fine and can all happen outside of school. Those children can then pray in school on their own if that is what they want to do. I just don't want the schools pushing Allah and Islam down my kid's throat on a daily basis.

Well let's review.

How many on the left want abortion as a legal right to be considered only in private? Who object to objections to abortion being promoted in the classroom?

(Let's see what Jesus said about abortion. Oh, that's right. He never once mentioned it.)

How many on the left want gay marriage as a good thing to be considered only in private? Who would object to traditional marriage being promoted as the norm in the classroom?

(Let's see what Jesus said about gay marriage. Oh, that's right. He never once mentioned it.)

How many on the left want sexuality and the use of condoms to be considered only in private? Who object to abstinance before marriage being promoted as the most effectve prevention for unwanted pregnancy and STDs?

(Let's see what Jesus said about abstinance and birth control. Oh, that's right. He never once mentioned it.)

How many on the left want the virtues of government benevolence in the New Deal to be considered only in private? Who object to promotion of the idea that government charity creates corruption and/or unhealthy dependency among the beneficiaries of the charity?

(Let's see what Jesus said about government provided benefits. Oh, that's right. He never once mentioned it.)

When you look at it from the perspective of secular humanistic concepts being the only acceptable topics to consider in public education, and don't care that making a child's God illegal to discuss or consider in that same environment is damaging to that child, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the problem.

Jesus has enough problems working His wonders in this world without people like you putting out words and ideas that weren't even spoken by Him. Yet people like you use it as some sort of "litmus test" to show who is a "real" Christian.

Freedom of Religion is more than just freedom on your own religion.

And why does any of the above items need to be taight in school? If nothing else to fight ignorance and bigotry.

You should consider joining the Westboro Church. You'd fit right in.

Hey you hear that whistling sound?

That's the point of my post, that DaGoose completely missed, flying right over his head.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Most prolifers do consider the unborn baby to be a human life. And they take seriously a decision to end that life for no better reason than it is inconvenient for the mother or the mother doesn't want it. That is not the same thing as saying that there is never a valid reason to end a pregnancy or that all abortion for any reason should be banned.

Anyone who has had basic biology must consider the unborn baby a human life. Scientific fact is that the unborn baby a human life.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You said:

"So much of my experience has been that the left is anti-religion."

If one is "anti-religion," how can one possibly be a Christian?

The left is generally anti-Christian - that is a fact. (Though Islam is embraced by the American left.)

And your question is as stupid as "If the GOP is anti-gay marriage, how can any Republicans possibly be homosexuals?"

Yes, but the god of Islam is not the G-d of the Torah and of the Bible. The god of Islam is a moon god and the worshipers of that religion are infidels. I just needed to make that distinction in your statement here. Thanks. - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Most prolifers do consider the unborn baby to be a human life. And they take seriously a decision to end that life for no better reason than it is inconvenient for the mother or the mother doesn't want it. That is not the same thing as saying that there is never a valid reason to end a pregnancy or that all abortion for any reason should be banned.

Anyone who has had basic biology must consider the unborn baby a human life. Scientific fact is that the unborn baby a human life.

Of course it is a human life. Science has proven that point already. But liberals ignore science when it points to them being wrong. On the other hand if it is science that will support you evolved from a sucker fish they will approve it even though the bible clearly states that God created man and woman from his rib. They will also tell you that the sucker fish has more rights than you do.... but that is another can of worms... So find an issue with God on one side and you'll find the liberal on the other. Therein the reason they are known as anti God. - J.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yes, but the god of Islam is not the G-d of the Torah and of the Bible. The god of Islam is a moon god and the worshipers of that religion are infidels. I just needed to make that distinction in your statement here. Thanks. - Jeremiah

Regardless. The same leftists who sue to silence religious expression of little girls at football games saying a Christian prayer; sue to ensure that Muslim children are provided prayer rugs in Detroit public schools.

The left is at war against Christians, but actively promotes Islam.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Our founders NEVER intended the "seperation of church and state" - and that is simply an undeniable fact.

It is? Prove it.

Thomas Jefferson wrote of a wall of separation between church and state in his letter to the Danbury Baptists. IF this meant what you Obamunists claim, how is it that Jefferson, as President, approved federal funds to Christian Universities and to pay for a staff Chaplin?

Did you know that all the finest universities in the USA were originally built with chapels? Do you know what they said about those on campus chapels? They said, That is where the wise among us go. Yes, in the early history of America there wasn't a scholar to be found who didn't know the bible from cover to cover. It was considered unthinkable that one would not know the bible. How far we have fallen, America. ......and the people responsible have the nerve to call themselves "progressives"... progress towards ignorance is complete. They are there now. They can stop. - Jeremiah

 

[Crackerjaxon]

So much of my experience has been that the left is anti-religion. They want God out of schools, out of government, out of society. If we could bring America back to God, I have no doubt we could bring the Democrat Party back to real liberals and away from the socialists/marxists/communists/fascists/statists who have hijacked it.

Well having spent a huge chunk of my adult life in a Christian denomination that has become increasingly liberal over the decades and currently is among the MOST liberal denominations in America--it permeates their sermons, their Sunday School materials, their larger missions, conventions, and outreach--you can't make a blanket statement that the Left, or even most of the Left, is anti-religion.

The most we can conclude based on empirical evidence is that most of those who want God out of schools, out of government, out of society are those who lean left. I say most because I know a few hard core conservatives who are just as anti-religion, but those are fairly rare.

You guys just don't get it; it's not about getting God out of schools, it's about not forcing our view of God on anyone. When you talk about wanting God back in the schools, you are talking about your view of God. How about this? If you want God back in the schools so much, how about we bring Allah into our schools? They can teach the Koran and our kids can pray five times per day to Allah. Does that sound like what you want in our schools?

I didn't think so.

You do realize that any child can pray in school on their own, right? If parents choose to raise their children with religious indoctrination, that is fine and can all happen outside of school. Those children can then pray in school on their own if that is what they want to do. I just don't want the schools pushing Allah and Islam down my kid's throat on a daily basis.

What a stupid argument. You seem to believe that religious tolerance is against the law.

I won't even bother with your silly use of the word indoctrination.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Yes, but the god of Islam is not the G-d of the Torah and of the Bible. The god of Islam is a moon god and the worshipers of that religion are infidels. I just needed to make that distinction in your statement here. Thanks. - Jeremiah

Regardless. The same leftists who sue to silence religious expression of little girls at football games saying a Christian prayer; sue to ensure that Muslim children are provided prayer rugs in Detroit public schools.

The left is at war against Christians, but actively promotes Islam.

Don't forget Judaism. There is a line being crossed on that front also. Muslims are getting away with going into synagogues and opening fire on innocent civilians and then plea insanity when they are put on trial for it. It is happening all over the world! Their mosques are filled to the brim on Friday praying for the death of Israel and the great satan, America - that allah their moon god would grant them favor for their lunar cycle ( lunatic mode - jihad ) that month to kill as many as they can - then when one of them gets caught at it? All of a sudden it is an abberation of islam! We have no idea where this teaching comes from! Our prophet teaches there is no compulsion in religion! yadayada... but here we are again, bold as day - Muslim opens fire on Easter congregation and murders his own father for attending a church service. So while I appreciate people such as Bik who claim this is an abberation of Islam we have something called conflicting evidence telling us something else. I think Americans are about to reconcile themselves to the fact that Islam is the 800 lb gorilla in the room they are going to have to deal with. Now or later. Later is not a good idea by all historical accounts given concerning Islam - Jihad - world domination goal. - Jeremiah

 

[Uncensored2008]

Did you know that all the finest universities in the USA were originally built with chapels?

Far more than that. Harvard was constructed to educate men in the ways of Jesus Christ so that they might join the Congregationalist clergy.

Do you know what they said about those on campus chapels? They said, That is where the wise among us go. Yes, in the early history of America there wasn't a scholar to be found who didn't know the bible from cover to cover. It was considered unthinkable that one would not know the bible. How far we have fallen, America. ......and the people responsible have the nerve to call themselves "progressives"... progress towards ignorance is complete. They are there now. They can stop. - Jeremiah

What's sad is that the leftists in this forum don't even know their own holy book. Few of them are familiar with the Communist Manifesto or with Capital (Vol. 1)

They are but mindless drones, spewing mantras fed them at the hate sites.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Don't forget Judaism. There is a line being crossed on that front also.

Good point.

Correction, the left is at war against the Judeo-Christian culture of the nation.

Muslims are getting away with going into synagogues and opening fire on innocent civilians and then plea insanity when they are put on trial for it. It is happening all over the world! Their mosques are filled to the brim on Friday praying for the death of Israel and the great satan, America - that allah their moon god would grant them favor for their lunar cycle ( lunatic mode - jihad ) that month to kill as many as they can - then when one of them gets caught at it? All of a sudden it is an abberation of islam! We have no idea where this teaching comes from! Our prophet teaches there is no compulsion in religion! yadayada... but here we are again, bold as day - Muslim opens fire on Easter congregation and murders his own father for attending a church service. So while I appreciate people such as Bik who claim this is an abberation of Islam we have something called conflicting evidence telling us something else. I think Americans are about to reconcile themselves to the fact that Islam is the 800 lb gorilla in the room they are going to have to deal with. Now or later. Later is not a good idea by all historical accounts given concerning Islam - Jihad - world domination goal. - Jeremiah

Since the goal of the left is the dissolution of American culture, Islam makes a good ally. The left is confident that they can betray Islam once the nation is subverted.

 

[Foxfyre]

Did you know that all the finest universities in the USA were originally built with chapels?

Far more than that. Harvard was constructed to educate men in the ways of Jesus Christ so that they might join the Congregationalist clergy.

That was something I left out of my earlier post on what Christianity has done for the world and continues to do. And why people of the Christian faith, in spite of their different interpretations and different preferences in how to worship, ultimately have been the most unifying force in this nation.

The earliest hospitals and almost all of the earliest universities in the nation were built because the Chrsitians saw to it that they were built:

106 of the first 108 colleges were started on the Christian faith. By the close of 1860 there were 246 colleges in America. Seventeen of these were state institutions; almost every other one was founded by Christian denominations or by individuals who avowed a religious purpose.

Harvard College, 1636 - An Original Rule of Harvard College: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternal life, (John 17:3), and therefore to lay Christ in the bottom, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning."

William and Mary, 1691 - The College of William and Mary was started mainly due to the efforts of Rev. James Blair in order, according to its charter of 1691, "that the Church of Virginia may be furnished with a seminary of ministers of the gospel, and that the youth may be piously educated in good letters and manners, and that the Christian religion may be propagated among the Western Indians to the glory of Almighty God."

Yale University, 1701 - Yale University was started by Congregational ministers in 1701,"for the liberal and religious education of suitable youth…to propagate in this wilderness, the blessed reformed Protestant religion…"

Princeton, 1746 - Associated with the Great Awakening, Princeton was founded by the Presbyterians in 1746. Rev. Jonathan Dickinson became its first president, declaring, "cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ."

University of Pennsylvania, 1751 - Ben Franklin had much to do with the beginning of the University of Pennsylvania. It was not started by a denomination, but its laws reflect its Christian character. Consider the first two Laws, relating to Moral Conduct (from 1801): "1. None of the students or scholars, belonging to this seminary, shall make use of any indecent or immoral language: whether it consist in immodest expressions; in cursing and swearing; or in exclamations which introduce the name of God, without reverence, and without necessity. "2. None of them shall, without a good and sufficient reason, be absent from school, or late in his attendance; more particularly at the time of prayers, and of the reading of the Holy Scriptures."

Some other colleges started before America's Independence include: Columbia founded in 1754 (called King's College up until 1784), Dartmouth ,1770; Brown started by the Baptists in 1764; Rutgers, 1766, by the Dutch Reformed Church; Washington and Lee, 1749; and Hampton-Sydney, 1776, by the Presbyterians.
History of America's Education #3 Universities, Textbooks and Our Founders

And in spite of all that eeeeeeevul, coercive, heavy handed Christianity that permeated almost all of American society in its formative years, what few little theocracies that had existed all dissolved within a few years of the ratification of the Constitution and no new theocracies have developed.

I think a very strong argument can be made that this nation is the greatest nation the world has ever known because it was grounded in the principle of individual liberty, unalienable rights, and self governance, all of which were produced and underwritten out of the Christian faith of the Founders and those who worked so hard to carry out the legacy they gave us.