PoliticalChic's Review of "Waiting for Superman"

[NYcarbineer]

Um, no.

Class Size Around the World - NYTimes.com

I said in "metropolitan" areas. Perhaps I should have been more specific, i.e., inner city public schools.

Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg to give $100m to Newark's crumbling schools | Richard Adams | World news | guardian.co.uk

You think they omitted the metropolitan areas in Japan and Korea?

Do you think Japanese and Korean cultures are close enough in similarity to American culture that you can make meaningful and valid apples to apples comparisons?

 

[NYcarbineer]

"Hey, I remember that movie. I had Raisinets."

 

[Samson]

This is the real sources of the outsourcing problem. You can't find enough educated americans to fill the jobs.

maybe that's because 70% of americans don't believe in evolution?


no...seriously.. it's because corporations want their workers to work for substandard wages and they get tax breaks for moving things offshore.

it isn't rocket science.


now back to the review... interesting reading, CG.

So, The US's poor ranking is a vast corporate conspiracy to under-educate americans so they won't be able to sew socks, answer my AMEX complaints, and take orders for rubber-vomit and other novelties?

Damn, and I wanted to take orders for Adult Novelties when I'm 70 years old and need to supplement my SSI.

 

[NYcarbineer]

How appropriate that, with an avatar such as hers, that PoliticalChic, would see this film??

You do know the hot avatar rule don't you?

 

[NYcarbineer]

"Hey, I remember that movie. I had Raisinets."

Dang, nobody here O L D enough to appreciate a killer Barney Miller reference.

 

[Trajan]

I said in "metropolitan" areas. Perhaps I should have been more specific, i.e., inner city public schools.

Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg to give $100m to Newark's crumbling schools | Richard Adams | World news | guardian.co.uk

You think they omitted the metropolitan areas in Japan and Korea?

Do you think Japanese and Korean cultures are close enough in similarity to American culture that you can make meaningful and valid apples to apples comparisons?

its a classroom....either the environment is conducive to learning or its not.

 

[Trajan]

Loss of classroom control is almost always the result of too many students per teacher. It's a common problem, especially in larger metropolitican schools.

Um, no.

Class Size Around the World - NYTimes.com

Note that some of the countries with some of the world’s highest achieving student bodies — like Korea and Japan — have the biggest class sizes.

I said in "metropolitan" areas. Perhaps I should have been more specific, i.e., inner city public schools.

Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg to give $100m to Newark's crumbling schools | Richard Adams | World news | guardian.co.uk

how does this apply to waiting for superman?

 

[Trajan]

"Hey, I remember that movie. I had Raisinets."

Dang, nobody here O L D enough to appreciate a killer Barney Miller reference.

I didn't see it till now wojo.

 

[midcan5]

Friday we are having dinner with five teachers, I will ask them what they think of this film or idea.

Our son taught math in HS in a middle to upper middle class public school. He loved his bright students, his stupid students, which were the majority, caused a career change into respect and lots more money. It is America folks, not unions, not teachers, not all America but American culture. My wife has taught math for over twenty years. The rich do not go to these schools, ever wonder why? Has nothing to do with teachers, has lots to do with teacher pay and other perks money brings. Check out cost in private schools. And if unions disappeared this would be the same, probably worse in the poor areas.

"Here's what you see in Waiting for Superman, the new documentary that celebrates the charter school movement while blaming teachers unions for much of what ails American education: working- and middle-class parents desperate to get their charming, healthy, well-behaved children into successful public charter schools.

Here's what you don't see: the four out of five charters that are no better, on average, than traditional neighborhood public schools (and are sometimes much worse); charter school teachers, like those at the Green Dot schools in Los Angeles, who are unionized and like it that way; and noncharter neighborhood public schools, like PS 83 in East Harlem and the George Hall Elementary School in Mobile, Alabama, that are nationally recognized for successfully educating poor children.

You also don't learn that in the Finnish education system, much cited in the film as the best in the world, teachers are—gasp!—unionized and granted tenure, and families benefit from a cradle-to-grave social welfare system that includes universal daycare, preschool and healthcare, all of which are proven to help children achieve better results at school." Grading 'Waiting for Superman' | The Nation

 

[Trajan]

Friday we are having dinner with five teachers, I will ask them what they think of this film or idea.

Our son taught math in HS in a middle to upper middle class public school. He loved his bright students, his stupid students, which were the majority, caused a career change into respect and lots more money. It is America folks, not unions, not teachers, not all America but American culture. My wife has taught math for over twenty years. The rich do not go to these schools, ever wonder why? Has nothing to do with teachers, has lots to do with teacher pay and other perks money brings. Check out cost in private schools. And if unions disappeared this would be the same, probably worse in the poor areas.

"Here's what you see in Waiting for Superman, the new documentary that celebrates the charter school movement while blaming teachers unions for much of what ails American education: working- and middle-class parents desperate to get their charming, healthy, well-behaved children into successful public charter schools.

Here's what you don't see: the four out of five charters that are no better, on average, than traditional neighborhood public schools (and are sometimes much worse); charter school teachers, like those at the Green Dot schools in Los Angeles, who are unionized and like it that way; and noncharter neighborhood public schools, like PS 83 in East Harlem and the George Hall Elementary School in Mobile, Alabama, that are nationally recognized for successfully educating poor children." Grading 'Waiting for Superman' | The Nation

to bad they ( the nation and it sounds like those teachers) didn't see the movie , or if they did and thats all they got out of it, I wouldn't want my kids in their classroom.

 

[Samson]

Friday we are having dinner with five teachers, I will ask them what they think of this film or idea.

Our son taught math in HS in a middle to upper middle class public school. He loved his bright students, his stupid students, which were the majority, caused a career change into respect and lots more money. It is America folks, not unions, not teachers, not all America but American culture. My wife has taught math for over twenty years. The rich do not go to these schools, ever wonder why? Has nothing to do with teachers, has lots to do with teacher pay and other perks money brings. Check out cost in private schools. And if unions disappeared this would be the same, probably worse in the poor areas.

"Here's what you see in Waiting for Superman, the new documentary that celebrates the charter school movement while blaming teachers unions for much of what ails American education: working- and middle-class parents desperate to get their charming, healthy, well-behaved children into successful public charter schools.

Here's what you don't see: the four out of five charters that are no better, on average, than traditional neighborhood public schools (and are sometimes much worse); charter school teachers, like those at the Green Dot schools in Los Angeles, who are unionized and like it that way; and noncharter neighborhood public schools, like PS 83 in East Harlem and the George Hall Elementary School in Mobile, Alabama, that are nationally recognized for successfully educating poor children.

You also don't learn that in the Finnish education system, much cited in the film as the best in the world, teachers are—gasp!—unionized and granted tenure, and families benefit from a cradle-to-grave social welfare system that includes universal daycare, preschool and healthcare, all of which are proven to help children achieve better results at school." Grading 'Waiting for Superman' | The Nation

I have had two experiences with charter schools, at what I imagine are opposite ends of the spectrum, in two different states. But this really is no surprise: There is NO "AMERICAN EDUCATION SYSTEM."

Therefore, it is absurd to compare a "Finnish Education System" to an "United States Educational System."

Most Americans who have never moved, believe that their local schools reflect the nation.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[NYcarbineer]

"Hey, I remember that movie. I had Raisinets."

Dang, nobody here O L D enough to appreciate a killer Barney Miller reference.

I didn't see it till now wojo.

For 2000 dollars,

Name that movie!

 

[NYcarbineer]

You think they omitted the metropolitan areas in Japan and Korea?

Do you think Japanese and Korean cultures are close enough in similarity to American culture that you can make meaningful and valid apples to apples comparisons?

its a classroom....either the environment is conducive to learning or its not.

The manageability of a classroom can certainly be profoundly affected by the nature of the cultural upbringing of the children, as it relates to such things as discipline, attitude, desire to learn, etc., etc.

I'm suggesting that 35 Japanese kids might be as easily taught in a class as 25 American kids, just because of cultural differences.

 

[Samson]

I said in "metropolitan" areas. Perhaps I should have been more specific, i.e., inner city public schools.

Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg to give $100m to Newark's crumbling schools | Richard Adams | World news | guardian.co.uk

You think they omitted the metropolitan areas in Japan and Korea?

Do you think Japanese and Korean cultures are close enough in similarity to American culture that you can make meaningful and valid apples to apples comparisons?

No, not at all (BTW let's add Israeli culture and German culture least we be labled "racists").

My point was, that culture, not merely class size, makes a different learning environment.

 

[Trajan]

Do you think Japanese and Korean cultures are close enough in similarity to American culture that you can make meaningful and valid apples to apples comparisons?

its a classroom....either the environment is conducive to learning or its not.

The manageability of a classroom can certainly be profoundly affected by the nature of the cultural upbringing of the children, as it relates to such things as discipline, attitude, desire to learn, etc., etc.

I'm suggesting that 35 Japanese kids might be as easily taught in a class as 25 American kids, just because of cultural differences.

so, why hasn't this paradigm ever been as obvious?

 

[NYcarbineer]

You think they omitted the metropolitan areas in Japan and Korea?

Do you think Japanese and Korean cultures are close enough in similarity to American culture that you can make meaningful and valid apples to apples comparisons?

No, not at all (BTW let's add Israeli culture and German culture least we be labled "racists").

My point was, that culture, not merely class size, makes a different learning environment.

No, actually you just posted a list of class sizes in various countries with the implication being that Americans were off course to argue for smaller classes because countries like Japan and Korea have big classes.

 

[Samson]

Do you think Japanese and Korean cultures are close enough in similarity to American culture that you can make meaningful and valid apples to apples comparisons?

No, not at all (BTW let's add Israeli culture and German culture least we be labled "racists").

My point was, that culture, not merely class size, makes a different learning environment.

No, actually you just posted a list of class sizes in various countries with the implication being that Americans were off course to argue for smaller classes because countries like Japan and Korea have big classes.

Didn't I just explain my post without "implication?"

The statement was made that, "Loss of classroom control is almost always the result of too many students per teacher. It's a common problem, especially in larger metropolitican [sic] schools."

This is clearly untrue in Japan, Korea, and Israel, all of which have large urban populations.

Do you have data to justify a contradictory POV?

 

[Samson]

its a classroom....either the environment is conducive to learning or its not.

The manageability of a classroom can certainly be profoundly affected by the nature of the cultural upbringing of the children, as it relates to such things as discipline, attitude, desire to learn, etc., etc.

I'm suggesting that 35 Japanese kids might be as easily taught in a class as 25 American kids, just because of cultural differences.

so, why hasn't this paradigm ever been as obvious?

"As obvious" as.........what?

The fact is that homogeneous cultures are much easier to manage (govern), in both a microcosim (classroom) and macrocosm (nation), than heterogeneous cultures: E.g. What language shall we speak in school? Do the Koreans, or Finns struggle to teach Vietnamese, Mexican, and Somalis in their own languages?

No.

 

[MaggieMae]

Um, no.

Class Size Around the World - NYTimes.com

I said in "metropolitan" areas. Perhaps I should have been more specific, i.e., inner city public schools.

Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg to give $100m to Newark's crumbling schools | Richard Adams | World news | guardian.co.uk

You think they omitted the metropolitan areas in Japan and Korea?

Why are you persisting with this argument? Japan and Korea are much more disciplined people in general. It therefore follows their instructors and students (and class rooms) will also be much more disciplined than can commonly be found today in typical unruly classrooms in the United States. This is a fucking nobrainer, and it does make me wonder if you are really a "teacher" at all, as you claim to be.

 

[MaggieMae]

Um, no.

Class Size Around the World - NYTimes.com

I said in "metropolitan" areas. Perhaps I should have been more specific, i.e., inner city public schools.

Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg to give $100m to Newark's crumbling schools | Richard Adams | World news | guardian.co.uk

how does this apply to waiting for superman?

Not having seen the movie yet, I don't know if there's any reference to student:teacher ratio or not. But suffice it to say, I've seen it a LOT, where classrooms are filled to overflowing with 30 or more students and one teacher trying to teach, say, math to a bunch of adolescents more interested in goofing off with each other. I'd like to see anyone here try to do it and control the class at the same time.