Police: Juveniles laughed after setting 15-year-old on fire

[AllieBaba]

However all the literature on the subject says that kids don't go berserck for no reason, ever. They're perception may be skewed, but it's skewed for a reason.

Not true, I've read several books about the psyche of serial killers and violent criminals with how some of them are born that way. Personally, it's not farfetched to believe that there is some sort of gene or something in the brain from a very young age that is mutated or twisted.

Example: Young children have a tendency (boys at the very least) to want to kill small animals to a various degree. You know, the whole ants and magnify glass. What happens with serial killers is that they don't stop like most young boys do. They continue and the fulfillment from killing small animals doesn't satisfy them eventually. So they dream about killing someone and eventually that dream becomes a reality.

Now plenty of violent criminals have great parents and some have crap parents. There's not one significant event that makes them do the things they do. So what does it?

Really? What books, what authors?

 

[AllieBaba]

I wonder how many of the perpetrators have fathers in the home?

Indeed - one of the most destructive forces in American society is the absent father...

Or a present, terrifying one.

When a Child Kills: Abused Children Who Kill Their Parents
by Paul Mones

"In an impressive, well-documented study of juvenile crime and parental sadism, L.A. attorney Mones, writing with sensitivity, eloquently defends brutalized teenage parricides. He argues that such youngsters, having blocked off feelings in order to survive years of parental sexual or other physical and mental abuse, and without protection from the community or the justice system, reach a breaking point that triggers their killing of one or both parents--son-father patricide being the most common. Mones further charges that society does not extend to these teenagers the compassion and aid accorded to battered wives who return violence with violence. He advocates the establishment of more shelters for abused youths and enactment of laws similar to those in Sweden against physical punishment of children."
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/When-Child-Kills-Children-Parents/dp/067167420X]Amazon.com: When a Child Kills: Abused Children Who Kill Their Parents (9780671674205): Paul A. Mones: Books[/ame]

Wonderful book. I highly recommend it.

 

[Sinatra]

Chris Rock's brilliant views regarding the rampant *******/Niggaz of our society - be they White, Black, Hispanic, or other.

America has way too many *******...

Warning - adult content - (I don't care for all the profanity, but at least in this context he is making a very salient point...)


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui6-Wc0PDc4]YouTube - Chris Rock - Black People Vs Niggaz[/ame]

 

[AllieBaba]

Totally unrelated to the thread...but I watched "Everybody Hates Chris" last night for the first time and I absolutely LOVED it.

 

[Sinatra]

Totally unrelated to the thread...but I watched "Everybody Hates Chris" last night for the first time and I absolutely LOVED it.

Actually, this material is related - particularly when taken in context with Rock's musings regarding the importance of family, the demise of role models, etc.

He has a potty mouth, but his comedy touches on some very critical components of our society - and he gives no harbor to any one racial group...

 

[AllieBaba]

I love Chris Rock, always have. He went a little bersercker there for a couple of years, but got over it and he's just a cool individual now and always has something worthwhile to say.

Eddie Murphy turned out pretty good, too, all things considered. He just turned down a role to play Richard Pryor. I haven't read up on it yet, but I'll bet money it's because he doesn't want to be involved in portraying the depravity of Pryor's early life.

 

[Modbert]

Really? What books, what authors?

I don't own the books but what I just stated is a common theory when it comes to serial killers and violent criminals. I know that for a fact since I learned it in law class last year.

 

[Modbert]

You know, between Allie and Sinatra, this thread pretty much went off the tracks and into a ditch.

 

[auditor0007]

It's not just the video games...it's the lack of supervision, the lack of structure which would provide them with other things to do and develop character, virtue and morality.

Maybe, Babble, but IMO some parents can twist themselves into knots and their kids will still be fucked in the head.

There will always be psychos out there, but I think Allie is correct. So many kids these days have no moral direction. Kids don't go to church anymore because their parents don't go. And this is not a pro-Christian/Religion comment; I'm just saying that religious institutions generally teach a moral code of conduct that most tend to follow.

On top of this, kids no longer face any real consequences for their actions. When they are young, we no longer spank them. The schools can't spank them. The consequences they face for bad behavior are not consequences at all. And then when things get worse, we ask ourselves why?

Kids are the meanest people on Earth. They are vindictive and they make fun of others whenever given the chance. They can be extremely hurtful, both physically, but more important, mentally. Without any real moral guidelines and real consequences, they continue with this behavior and it escalates.

 

[Modbert]

There will always be psychos out there, but I think Allie is correct. So many kids these days have no moral direction. Kids don't go to church anymore because their parents don't go. And this is not a pro-Christian/Religion comment; I'm just saying that religious institutions generally teach a moral code of conduct that most tend to follow.

On top of this, kids no longer face any real consequences for their actions. When they are young, we no longer spank them. The schools can't spank them. The consequences they face for bad behavior are not consequences at all. And then when things get worse, we ask ourselves why?

Kids are the meanest people on Earth. They are vindictive and they make fun of others whenever given the chance. They can be extremely hurtful, both physically, but more important, mentally. Without any real moral guidelines and real consequences, they continue with this behavior and it escalates.

Religion has nothing to do with this. Are you people that wanting to blame the non-religious? People who are religious are serial killers all the time, they're called visionaries because they think God gave them a mission to kill a certain group of people. Again, religion has been the #1 cause of death in warfare in all of history.

As for your comments about spanking, really? You're going to blame a lack of spanking for this? I suppose if you beat your kids, they will be in line. Until one day they snap and kill you in your sleep.

Parents can discipline properly without spanking. It's due to society's child worshipping where everyone's kid is an angel and without fault. The sort of society where nobody's wrong and everyone is right.

This is due to crappy parenting, not religion or lack of spanking. Kids were mean back then and they're mean today. Nothing ever really changes with kids. It's the fact that society has changed is what the difference is. When you have a fear based, greedy, "survival of the fittest" society where the strong must crush the weak, what do you expect?

 

[Sinatra]

I love Chris Rock, always have. He went a little bersercker there for a couple of years, but got over it and he's just a cool individual now and always has something worthwhile to say.

Eddie Murphy turned out pretty good, too, all things considered. He just turned down a role to play Richard Pryor. I haven't read up on it yet, but I'll bet money it's because he doesn't want to be involved in portraying the depravity of Pryor's early life.

I would have thought Murphy would be all over that Pryor role.

I actually find Rock's comedy more applicable to society than Pryor, though Pryor certainly explored the depths of some serious personal pain that was fascinating to watch...

 

[Emma]

It was a hate crime committed by hispanics against a white kid.

Did I miss something?

I dont remember reading anything about the race of either victim or perps in the story.

See this article, Teen Charged With Attempted Murder In Burn Attack - cbs4.com
White kid is the victim, ring leader of the crime is named "Mendez".
I'm stirring the pot, also from the article is this,

According to BSO, all five of the suspects have had run-ins with the law before.

Previous criminal records that they were probably just slapped on the wrist for.

All five have been charged as juveniles.

That's bullshit.

BTW, my daughter's last name is hispanic, but she's only 1/4 Mexican. So is she White or Hispanic?

 

[JW Frogen]

All teenagers of every race, creed and colour are insolent punks who need a can of Frogen ass whoop opened on them.

 

[JW Frogen]

It is for their own good.

 

[Sidestreamer]

What kind of monsters are people raising these days?

Police: Juveniles laughed after setting 15-year-old on fire - CNN.com

The youths all attend school together, police said, and Brewer apparently owed one of the suspects $40 for a video game and had not paid it. So the suspect allegedly stole the victim's father's bicycle, Feeley said. Brewer reported the bicycle stolen Sunday, and the suspect was arrested that day, taken to a detention center and released to his parents early Monday, police said.

From what the suspects and witnesses have told police, the suspect yelled, "He's a snitch, he's a snitch" and "pour it on him." Another juvenile threw what police believe was rubbing alcohol on Brewer from a plastic jug and used a lighter to set him on fire, he said.

Malissa Durkee, the teen's sister, told WPLG on Monday night that her brother was in critical condition. Lamberti said Brewer is expected to be hospitalized for five months.

Over $40 this happened. Let me repeat that, this started over $40. I would shake my head, but I'm just too disgusted.

That's Florida for you. Getting lit up for $40 is nothing. This is how they react to an xbox!

THE XBOX MURDERS 6 in Fla. were slain over game

THE XBOX MURDERS 6 in Fla. were slain over game

BY ROSE DAVIS in Deltona, Fla., and DAVE GOLDINER in New York DAILY NEWS WRITERS With Melissa Grace

Monday, August 9th 2004, 6:52AM

A STOLEN Xbox video-game system triggered a brutal Florida massacre that killed six people, including an upper Manhattan man who was "in the wrong place at the wrong time," cops and friends said yesterday.

Police say hulking ex-con Troy Victorino sicced three bat-wielding pals in Ninja-style black outfits on the houseful of friends whom he blamed for stealing the game console and his clothes.

One of the innocent victims was ex-New Yorker Roberto (Tito) Gonzalez, 28, who was staying at the house only because he had to drive to a house-painting job with a friend the next morning.

"How can all that happen for an Xbox?" asked Eva Echavarria of Deltona, Fla., whose boyfriend grew up with Gonzalez. "He didn't even have anything to do with it," she added. "He was just there in the wrong place at the wrong time."

The bloodthirsty killers bashed the bodies of the victims beyond recognition - and even killed a small brown dachshund named George.

Volusia County Sheriff Ben Johnson said he has seen bloody murders, but couldn't imagine a more trivial motive.

"It just never surprises me, some of the ridiculous things that happen," Johnson said yesterday. "This is the worst that I've ever [seen] in my career."

If someone steals a Playstation 3 from the wrong kid in Tampa, he'll pull a 9/11-style kamikaze on the Bank of America building... oh wait. Nevermind.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/06/rec.athome.facts/index.html

 

[chanel]

It's not just the video games...it's the lack of supervision, the lack of structure which would provide them with other things to do and develop character, virtue and morality.

Maybe, Babble, but IMO some parents can twist themselves into knots and their kids will still be fucked in the head.

There will always be psychos out there, but I think Allie is correct. So many kids these days have no moral direction. Kids don't go to church anymore because their parents don't go. And this is not a pro-Christian/Religion comment; I'm just saying that religious institutions generally teach a moral code of conduct that most tend to follow.

On top of this, kids no longer face any real consequences for their actions. When they are young, we no longer spank them. The schools can't spank them. The consequences they face for bad behavior are not consequences at all. And then when things get worse, we ask ourselves why?

Kids are the meanest people on Earth. They are vindictive and they make fun of others whenever given the chance. They can be extremely hurtful, both physically, but more important, mentally. Without any real moral guidelines and real consequences, they continue with this behavior and it escalates.

As a high school teacher, I have witnessed the escalation of violence in my own school. And the biggest troublemakers get "behavior contracts" which essentially reward them for not hurting anybody. And if they do, they can get private tutoring at home and are almost guaranteed a diploma.

There were always fights at school. Now it's six on one, and often with any weapon they can find. A bottle, a chair, a pen, etc...

I blame the breakdown of the family first and foremost. Then of course the schools that are left to clean up the mess, just exacerbate the problem.

 

[betchamad]

Obviously,the school lack of christian eduction is the major cause.Satan always taking souls from the church,because those souls are weak,enticed by evil.You need to make the mind of teenager wearing the armor of Christ.

 

[ncarolinadixie]

"Previous criminal records that they were probably just slapped on the wrist for."

While there were many great points made on this thread this one kind of stuck out for me. IMHO this is one of the biggest reasons so many young kids are repeat offenders with their offenses escalating until something like this happens. We've become so scared of "damaging a childs psyche" that real punishment has been thrown out the window. Kids these days ARE simply given a smack on the wrist for wrongs done leaving them with the feelings "if I can do this with no repercussions then I should be able to do this" and on and on and on until something horrific like this case happens. I'm not saying beat your kids or that kids should automatically be locked up for an extended period of time at the time of their first major offense or crime. I am a proponent of spanking and feel that a simple spanking, NOT beating, does NOT damage a child for life. But find out what the fk caused the initial foray into reprehensible behavior, force the child to take responsibility for what THEY did, and act accordingly. All to often you hear how a child doing something such as this had a bad childhood, or they're misunderstood, or they're a product of their environment, effectively giving that child an "out" for what they did. They walk away from it feeling completely justified because, after all, it wasn't their fault. THEY are the victim! The actual victims in these crimes lose out. Then the child committing the crime loses out because they are left feeling they can do anything and get away with it because they are really the victim in the whole thing, not the person they victimized. Millions of kids grew up in households where they were spanked, NOT beaten, for wrong doings and grew up to be responsible, law abiding, caring adults. I remember getting to the point in my youth that I would actually BEG for a spanking over the punishment I knew was coming because the spanking was over and done with in a matter of minutes. It was a hell of a lot more preferrable to being put on "restriction" which meant I lost all freedoms for up to a month depending on what I did. Sure there were a few youthful, stupid, indiscretions committed while "growing up" but none involved a victim in the terms of physical assault or inflicting physical pain or such as that. MILLIONS of kids grew up the same way and have not gone on to commit unspeakable crimes against other people as adults. There is no personal responsibility anymore when it comes to the youth in this country. Plenty of excuses made, but no forcing of accepting the responsibility for their actions. You can blame it on TV, you can blame it on video games, you can blame it on bad parenting, etc etc etc but IMHO it is the lack of demanding they take responsibility for what they did letting them know the first time that it won't be tolerated and they will be punished accordingly. Kids are not stupid. If they know they're not going to get away with something more times than not they won't do it again or do something equally as dumb. But when they walk away from their crimes being told that it's not their fault, they are the victim, they're not responsible for their actions of course they're going to move on to bigger and worse offenses. Why not? Nothing they do, in their minds, is their fault anymore.

Yes, there are those that grow up in the most wonderful of households in the best of ways that go on to commit horrible crimes. It happens. But that, IMO, is not the majority. Though there should have been signs, very visible signs, that alerted those close to them that some wire somewhere wasn't firing as it should and they were gotten the help they needed before the problem escalated. I am constantly floored by the parents that claim they never saw anything unusual in their kids actions to alert them that something could happen. It reeks to me of simply NOT paying a hell of a lot of attention to your kids for whatever reason.

This child will bear the scars of this day for the rest of his life. Sadly, the perpetrators will also bear scars for their acts. Will they be forced to take responsibility for what they did? That is yet to be seen. But I'd be willing to bet you start hearing the usual platitudes of, "he's such a good kid", "he always does well in school", "we raised him right", blah blah blah once again giving the kid the "out" they need to NOT accept full responsibility for their actions. And if they walk away from this with a mere slap on the wrist you can just about be guaranteed you will hear of a far worse offense being committed by one or more of them.

We've got to stop molly coddling kids. We've got to stop pampering them. We've got to make kids understand as they're growing and learning about life that they have to be responsible for their actions, good or bad. We've got to stop victimizing the ones doing the victimizing. When more of our youth realize that behaviors such as this will not only NOT be tolerated but they WILL be punished for their actions, IMO, you'll see a lot less crime committed by the youth in this country. TV, video games, rap music, country music, movies, etc are NOT the problem.........allowing our youth to think it's all OK to emulate what they see or hear and not have to be responsible for what they do IS!

 

[Ravi]

OK, maybe it was a love crime.
Mendez is still a hispanic name, and the photograph of the victim makes it pretty obvious he was white.

Did you bother to read my OP? It was over $40 that the victim did not pay back for a video game. They stole the father's bike, the cops were called, one of the attackers was arrested, and then they set the kid on fire. This is not a hate crime, it's a disgusting crime over $40.

Yes, I read the OP, and had it been a black victim and white criminals, Al (Tawana Brawley) Sharpton and Jesse (I want to cut his nuts off) Jackson would be on all the MSM news channels claiming it was a hate crime and being given free air time to do it. In this case, it was a white victim, so they don't care. Sometimes you have to point out the hypocrisy.

Why would you malign latinos in this way because Jesse Jackson is an asshole? That's seriously hateful.

 

[Smartt33]

I blame the damn video games and movies that are desensitizing people. If I played Grand Theft Auto for 9 years straight I would be f*cked up too.

Yes, by all means, blame video games. Don't blame the parents who didn't properly raise their children or the system in which their behavior was obviously allowed to occur.

Yes, by all means, get a scapegoat. I played Grand Theft Auto since #3 came out however long ago it was. Am I out there setting kids on fire? I think not.

Peddle that bullshit elsewhere. These kids are monsters plain and simple.

Why not try placing the blame on the kids who did it? It was clearly planned, and carried out without any thought or remorse. Point the fingers in the right direction.

The parents may not have raised them well, but they are not to blame for this incident. Oh, why is this in the religion and ethics category?