Planned Parenthood caught trafficking in human body parts

[koshergrl]

Till the fetus is living and breathing apart from the mother's body, it is still up to her what happens to her body. If she is willing to male the commitment of her body for carrying the fetus and to give birth, that is her choice. If not, that too is her choice. Fetus does not live without her cooperation.
Late term is not simple thing to consider but when the life of the woman or the imminent suffering and death of the fetus is involved, it should be a decision she and her doctor make. Government and outsiders should not be a part of the decision.
There is no shortage of infants and children that need good homes in the world. Telling a woman she has no choice and has to carry and give birth is not your right and should never be. We are not a population of the verge of extinction that woman should be forced to be baby making machines. We are horrified by puppy mills but that is what you would force a women to be?

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

whatever you do. don't call it a BABY. Don't you know women that goes around telling everyone. hey, we are going to have fetus. you people are sick in the head and they should use all the people who supports and works at PP as specimens for body parts. The brains won't be usable so they toss them in the garbage...... We'll refer to you as a fetus when we write about how heroic you were

That's a good idea. Allow them to do unlimited human experimentation...upon each other. They truly are mentally ill and should be locked away from humanity. They are a threat to it, as everybody is beginning to see. Too late, of course. The damage is done.

No one is talking about human experimentation or experimentation on living beings. Hyperbole much? Or just the usual dishonest rhetoric. If so, I suggest you organize protests against cadever organ and tissue donation.

Yes, they are. What do you suppose the dead babies are used for, ding dong? Oh and one of your baby killing buddies already commented that dead babies might result (someday) in life saving procedures and materials. That means experimentation. Unless you are suggesting there are a lot of valid uses for dead baby flesh right now....aside from research. Or will you stupidly pretend research and experimentation are not associated? The possible places for your dishonest justification for murder and abuse to go are endless.

 

[Coyote]

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

 

[Coyote]

Till the fetus is living and breathing apart from the mother's body, it is still up to her what happens to her body. If she is willing to male the commitment of her body for carrying the fetus and to give birth, that is her choice. If not, that too is her choice. Fetus does not live without her cooperation.
Late term is not simple thing to consider but when the life of the woman or the imminent suffering and death of the fetus is involved, it should be a decision she and her doctor make. Government and outsiders should not be a part of the decision.
There is no shortage of infants and children that need good homes in the world. Telling a woman she has no choice and has to carry and give birth is not your right and should never be. We are not a population of the verge of extinction that woman should be forced to be baby making machines. We are horrified by puppy mills but that is what you would force a women to be?

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

So terry chiavo wasn't viable to eat without a tube... Therefore husband had every right to remove it?

She was not alive, she was being artificially kept fed and breathing. She had irreversible brain damage. Why should she have had to be kept under those conditions? That is not living. Her brain was a shriveled mass of dead cells. She should not have been kept so long like that. She should have been freed long before.

Yes, she was alive. That's why they had to withhold food and water to kill her. Like I said...weak helpless people have shortened lifespans when a progressive notices them.

A brain dead cadaver can be kept alive artificially. If we "play God" by ending life, then we are surely "playing God" by prolonging it in this manner. It's isn't "life" as many of us would want it.

 

[Faun]

Till the fetus is living and breathing apart from the mother's body, it is still up to her what happens to her body. If she is willing to male the commitment of her body for carrying the fetus and to give birth, that is her choice. If not, that too is her choice. Fetus does not live without her cooperation.
Late term is not simple thing to consider but when the life of the woman or the imminent suffering and death of the fetus is involved, it should be a decision she and her doctor make. Government and outsiders should not be a part of the decision.
There is no shortage of infants and children that need good homes in the world. Telling a woman she has no choice and has to carry and give birth is not your right and should never be. We are not a population of the verge of extinction that woman should be forced to be baby making machines. We are horrified by puppy mills but that is what you would force a women to be?

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

So terry chiavo wasn't viable to eat without a tube... Therefore husband had every right to remove it?

She was not alive, she was being artificially kept fed and breathing. She had irreversible brain damage. Why should she have had to be kept under those conditions? That is not living. Her brain was a shriveled mass of dead cells. She should not have been kept so long like that. She should have been freed long before.

No she was not artificially kept breathing, or artificially feeding, didn't think there was such a thing. She had a feeding tube, so if you are on a feeding tube, your family can decide for you to stop that treatment? What if it's a breast feeding baby? That's a mothers body it's living off of. That's where it gets it's nourishment and immunity. Does the mom then not have the choice to stop giving breast milk to the child? Why not? Explain to me where the difference is, sell me on it

If one is diagnosed to be in a permanent vegetative state, yes. As far as your breast-feeding example -- no, no one can force a woman to breast feed.

 

[Stephanie]

SNIP:

Here’s hoping the CMP videos initiate a paradigm shift in the nation’s thinking. We’ve got nothing to lose but our self-imposed cultural degradation
The Banality of Evil
By Arnold Ahlert -- Bio and Archives August 3, 2015


“Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil.” The book recounted the trial of Nazi Adolph Eichmann, who was chief of operations for the Gestapo-run Department for Jewish Affairs, and responsible for the deportation of three million Jews to extermination camps. Arendt hypothesized that people who carry out such barbarous crimes may not be inherently evil, but instead fairly ordinary individuals who simply accept the premises under which they operate.

For the last two weeks, our nation has been rocked by a series of videos produced by the Center for Medical Progress (CMP) revealing that Planned Parenthood (PP) has been involved in the harvesting and selling of fetal organs. CMP has released four of what they say is a series of 12 undercover videos, and each one has been more disturbing than its predecessor. In a bombshell claim, CMP founder David Daleiden revealed to CNN that one of those videos depicts a meeting with top leaders from organ recipient company StemExpress, admitting “they sometimes get fully intact fetuses shipped to their laboratory from the abortion clinics they work with, and that could be prima facie evidence of born-alive infants. And so that’s why they’re trying to suppress that videotape and they’re very scared of it.”

Indeed, StemExpress sued to keep the video from going public, and they secured a temporary stay from Judge William Orrick, a California federal judge who raised $230,000 for Barack Obama. And, by the way, PP President Cecile Richards has visited the White House 39 times since 2009 — just to be clear how much Obama supports the abortion industry.

None of what the public has seen so far could be described as banal. Yet for the pro-abortionists and their supporters in government and the media, who ultimately convinced the Supreme Court to decide the entire nation must accept the premise of abortion on demand is an integral part of the auspices under which the nation must now operate, the act that has precipitated every bit of this descent into organ-harvesting darkness has become the essence of banality.

ALL of it here:
The Banality of Evil

 

[Stephanie]

 

[koshergrl]

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

Actually, we aren't silent on it. You just don't engage in that conversation because your primary focus is to justify the butchery of much older babies, so you only see us here.

 

[Coyote]

You do realize that abortions after 20 weeks are extremely uncommon and account for only 1.5 %?

They are also strictly regulated after 24 weeks.

These aren't late term abortions being talked about here.

 

[Coyote]

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

Actually, we aren't silent on it. You just don't engage in that conversation because your primary focus is to justify the butchery of much older babies, so you only see us here.

Strange....I can find zillions of threads here on abortion but in vitro? No....

Same when it I look info...no mass protests, no demands being made....no labeling of "baby killer" and "slut" to the women who produced them.

But I understand your need to move the goalposts. Suddenly - you draw a distinction between the ages of a fetus. Why? Are some more worthy of protection than others?

 

[koshergrl]

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

Actually, we aren't silent on it. You just don't engage in that conversation because your primary focus is to justify the butchery of much older babies, so you only see us here.

Strange....I can find zillions of threads here on abortion but in vitro? No....

Same when it I look info...no mass protests, no demands being made....no labeling of "baby killer" and "slut" to the women who produced them.

But I understand your need to move the goalposts. Suddenly - you draw a distinction between the ages of a fetus. Why? Are some more worthy of protection than others?

Nope. It's just that the baby murderers don't go around screeching how great it is like they do about PP butcher shops. If you did, you'd find the same people there.

 

[aris2chat]

Till the fetus is living and breathing apart from the mother's body, it is still up to her what happens to her body. If she is willing to male the commitment of her body for carrying the fetus and to give birth, that is her choice. If not, that too is her choice. Fetus does not live without her cooperation.
Late term is not simple thing to consider but when the life of the woman or the imminent suffering and death of the fetus is involved, it should be a decision she and her doctor make. Government and outsiders should not be a part of the decision.
There is no shortage of infants and children that need good homes in the world. Telling a woman she has no choice and has to carry and give birth is not your right and should never be. We are not a population of the verge of extinction that woman should be forced to be baby making machines. We are horrified by puppy mills but that is what you would force a women to be?

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

So terry chiavo wasn't viable to eat without a tube... Therefore husband had every right to remove it?

She was not alive, she was being artificially kept fed and breathing. She had irreversible brain damage. Why should she have had to be kept under those conditions? That is not living. Her brain was a shriveled mass of dead cells. She should not have been kept so long like that. She should have been freed long before.

No she was not artificially kept breathing, or artificially feeding, didn't think there was such a thing. She had a feeding tube, so if you are on a feeding tube, your family can decide for you to stop that treatment? What if it's a breast feeding baby? That's a mothers body it's living off of. That's where it gets it's nourishment and immunity. Does the mom then not have the choice to stop giving breast milk to the child? Why not? Explain to me where the difference is, sell me on it

Tube is artificial feed. Shiavo could not swallow, she frequently had to have her lungs cleared and her trac was there to help assist her breath. Chest tube was to drain fluids and clear her lungs every few days. This was ongoing and artificial or she would not have been able to breath.
Much of the body function, that work when we sleep and are involuntary come from the brain stem and not the brain itself, a remnant of our dinosaur brain.
Her brain was a shriveled mass of dead cells. She really was not alive.

 

[koshergrl]

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

So terry chiavo wasn't viable to eat without a tube... Therefore husband had every right to remove it?

She was not alive, she was being artificially kept fed and breathing. She had irreversible brain damage. Why should she have had to be kept under those conditions? That is not living. Her brain was a shriveled mass of dead cells. She should not have been kept so long like that. She should have been freed long before.

No she was not artificially kept breathing, or artificially feeding, didn't think there was such a thing. She had a feeding tube, so if you are on a feeding tube, your family can decide for you to stop that treatment? What if it's a breast feeding baby? That's a mothers body it's living off of. That's where it gets it's nourishment and immunity. Does the mom then not have the choice to stop giving breast milk to the child? Why not? Explain to me where the difference is, sell me on it

Tube is artificial feed. Shiavo could not swallow, she frequently had to have her lungs cleared and her trac was there to help assist her breath. Chest tube was to drain fluids and clear her lungs every few days. This was ongoing and artificial or she would not have been able to breath.
Much of the body function, that work when we sleep and are involuntary come from the brain stem and not the brain itself, a remnant of our dinosaur brain.
Her brain was a shriveled mass of dead cells. She really was not alive.

"she really was not alive" = "she was alive, but vulnerable". Therefore unable to protest at being dispatched.

 

[aris2chat]

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

Actually, we aren't silent on it. You just don't engage in that conversation because your primary focus is to justify the butchery of much older babies, so you only see us here.

Strange....I can find zillions of threads here on abortion but in vitro? No....

Same when it I look info...no mass protests, no demands being made....no labeling of "baby killer" and "slut" to the women who produced them.

But I understand your need to move the goalposts. Suddenly - you draw a distinction between the ages of a fetus. Why? Are some more worthy of protection than others?

Nope. It's just that the baby murderers don't go around screeching how great it is like they do about PP butcher shops. If you did, you'd find the same people there.

It was actors intentionally trying to catch the off comment and entrap those of the PP into this farce. In any field you will find those who might be perceived as heartless or jaded. It is a defense mechanism, much like what happens in war. You learn about saving people that can be saved and making comfortable those who can't. It is not heartless, but it is practical, using resources where they will do the most good. The PP help those who want children and those who don't want at this time. There will be life and death. The tissue is either for research or for incineration as medical waste. Do you expect people to stand around and cry for each piece that is put in the fire? Why do you expect them to be all blurry eyed when talking of expenses or tissue to be used for research? Should each piece have a name given by the mother? It was not a living breathing independent thing yet. It was not given birth. It is a mass of cells developing over time. It has not life on it's own. It is a leech draining the woman slowly. It is in the first trimester when most miscarriages that place, the body is in conflict with the pregnancy. Many factors are in place to keep the body from rejecting the egg. It is an alien thing in the body.

Until it is sufficiently developed to live outside the woman's body it is not really alive or a baby. Since the first live birth, women have had to deal with loss. A loss before birth when hormones change a loss is much easier to deal with. After birth hormones effect the brain to motivate the mother to care for the infant.

No choice when it comes to consider being a mother is easy. Only the woman can decide what is best for her and her body. Either way she has to live with her choice. It is her life and the choice should not be made for her by strangers who do not know her or care about her life. Few of the pro-life poster seem to give the woman much consideration at all, only to the potential life her body is developing. They are enslaving the woman for nine months or more to serve not herself but an alien being growing insider her. They want her to give birth but not about what she goes through during the pregnancy. They care about a life that can be adopted but not about all the lives out there that are going un-adopted. They want to force a woman who is not ready to be a mother to give birth but they say nothing of all the half million miscarriages or so each year. They say nothing about how difficult it really is to adopt a child. They cannot promise all the women their children will go to a good loving home.

You control your body, but you should not control the body or other women out there. You make choices for your body, allow women to do the same.

 

[aris2chat]

Ya, you are right - when I read it through again, it doesn't make sense.
Third trimester abortions are severely restricted and I support those restrictions - once a fetus is viable then it's not just her decision except if the pregnancy endangers her health or life or severe fetal defects that were undetectable earlier. I think at that point the fetus has rights that can't be denied. I have said that on multiple occassions - maybe not in this thread though.

Till the fetus is living and breathing apart from the mother's body, it is still up to her what happens to her body. If she is willing to male the commitment of her body for carrying the fetus and to give birth, that is her choice. If not, that too is her choice. Fetus does not live without her cooperation.
Late term is not simple thing to consider but when the life of the woman or the imminent suffering and death of the fetus is involved, it should be a decision she and her doctor make. Government and outsiders should not be a part of the decision.
There is no shortage of infants and children that need good homes in the world. Telling a woman she has no choice and has to carry and give birth is not your right and should never be. We are not a population of the verge of extinction that woman should be forced to be baby making machines. We are horrified by puppy mills but that is what you would force a women to be?

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

whatever you do. don't call it a BABY. Don't you know women that goes around telling everyone. hey, we are going to have fetus. you people are sick in the head and they should use all the people who supports and works at PP as specimens for body parts. The brains won't be usable so they toss them in the garbage...... We'll refer to you as a fetus when we write about how heroic you were

That's a good idea. Allow them to do unlimited human experimentation...upon each other. They truly are mentally ill and should be locked away from humanity. They are a threat to it, as everybody is beginning to see. Too late, of course. The damage is done.

Would you prevent a woman from getting pregnant just to produce an organ(s) for a living child that would otherwise die? Why should you care if waste tissue is used for research. Both are used to save lives.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

 

[koshergrl]

Till the fetus is living and breathing apart from the mother's body, it is still up to her what happens to her body. If she is willing to male the commitment of her body for carrying the fetus and to give birth, that is her choice. If not, that too is her choice. Fetus does not live without her cooperation.
Late term is not simple thing to consider but when the life of the woman or the imminent suffering and death of the fetus is involved, it should be a decision she and her doctor make. Government and outsiders should not be a part of the decision.
There is no shortage of infants and children that need good homes in the world. Telling a woman she has no choice and has to carry and give birth is not your right and should never be. We are not a population of the verge of extinction that woman should be forced to be baby making machines. We are horrified by puppy mills but that is what you would force a women to be?

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

whatever you do. don't call it a BABY. Don't you know women that goes around telling everyone. hey, we are going to have fetus. you people are sick in the head and they should use all the people who supports and works at PP as specimens for body parts. The brains won't be usable so they toss them in the garbage...... We'll refer to you as a fetus when we write about how heroic you were

That's a good idea. Allow them to do unlimited human experimentation...upon each other. They truly are mentally ill and should be locked away from humanity. They are a threat to it, as everybody is beginning to see. Too late, of course. The damage is done.

Would you prevent a woman from getting pregnant just to produce an organ(s) for a living child that would otherwise die? Why should you care if waste tissue is used for research. Both are used to save lives.

No.one is used to prevent life. One is used to destroy it.

 

[PK1]

off

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

Actually, we aren't silent on it. You just don't engage in that conversation because your primary focus is to justify the butchery of much older babies, so you only see us here.

Strange....I can find zillions of threads here on abortion but in vitro? No....

Same when it I look info...no mass protests, no demands being made....no labeling of "baby killer" and "slut" to the women who produced them.

But I understand your need to move the goalposts. Suddenly - you draw a distinction between the ages of a fetus. Why? Are some more worthy of protection than others?

Nope. It's just that the baby murderers don't go around screeching how great it is like they do about PP butcher shops. If you did, you'd find the same people there.

It was actors intentionally trying to catch the off comment and entrap those of the PP into this farce. In any field you will find those who might be perceived as heartless or jaded. It is a defense mechanism, much like what happens in war. You learn about saving people that can be saved and making comfortable those who can't. It is not heartless, but it is practical, using resources where they will do the most good. The PP help those who want children and those who don't want at this time. There will be life and death. The tissue is either for research or for incineration as medical waste. Do you expect people to stand around and cry for each piece that is put in the fire? Why do you expect them to be all blurry eyed when talking of expenses or tissue to be used for research? Should each piece have a name given by the mother? It was not a living breathing independent thing yet. It was not given birth. It is a mass of cells developing over time. It has not life on it's own. It is a leech draining the woman slowly. It is in the first trimester when most miscarriages that place, the body is in conflict with the pregnancy. Many factors are in place to keep the body from rejecting the egg. It is an alien thing in the body.

Until it is sufficiently developed to live outside the woman's body it is not really alive or a baby. Since the first live birth, women have had to deal with loss. A loss before birth when hormones change a loss is much easier to deal with. After birth hormones effect the brain to motivate the mother to care for the infant.

No choice when it comes to consider being a mother is easy. Only the woman can decide what is best for her and her body. Either way she has to live with her choice. It is her life and the choice should not be made for her by strangers who do not know her or care about her life. Few of the pro-life poster seem to give the woman much consideration at all, only to the potential life her body is developing. They are enslaving the woman for nine months or more to serve not herself but an alien being growing insider her. They want her to give birth but not about what she goes through during the pregnancy. They care about a life that can be adopted but not about all the lives out there that are going un-adopted. They want to force a woman who is not ready to be a mother to give birth but they say nothing of all the half million miscarriages or so each year. They say nothing about how difficult it really is to adopt a child. They cannot promise all the women their children will go to a good loving home.

You control your body, but you should not control the body or other women out there. You make choices for your body, allow women to do the same.

---
Wow!
A very comprehensive RATIONAL post.

 

[aris2chat]

Till the fetus is living and breathing apart from the mother's body, it is still up to her what happens to her body. If she is willing to male the commitment of her body for carrying the fetus and to give birth, that is her choice. If not, that too is her choice. Fetus does not live without her cooperation.
Late term is not simple thing to consider but when the life of the woman or the imminent suffering and death of the fetus is involved, it should be a decision she and her doctor make. Government and outsiders should not be a part of the decision.
There is no shortage of infants and children that need good homes in the world. Telling a woman she has no choice and has to carry and give birth is not your right and should never be. We are not a population of the verge of extinction that woman should be forced to be baby making machines. We are horrified by puppy mills but that is what you would force a women to be?

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

whatever you do. don't call it a BABY. Don't you know women that goes around telling everyone. hey, we are going to have fetus. you people are sick in the head and they should use all the people who supports and works at PP as specimens for body parts. The brains won't be usable so they toss them in the garbage...... We'll refer to you as a fetus when we write about how heroic you were

That's a good idea. Allow them to do unlimited human experimentation...upon each other. They truly are mentally ill and should be locked away from humanity. They are a threat to it, as everybody is beginning to see. Too late, of course. The damage is done.

No one is talking about human experimentation or experimentation on living beings. Hyperbole much? Or just the usual dishonest rhetoric. If so, I suggest you organize protests against cadever organ and tissue donation.

Sorry but I have already made arrangement for what is viable to be donated to science. I would be glad for students and scientists to learn from me. It could save others from suffering or even death. Otherwise I would just be so much worm food. Why anyone would want their bodies filled with plastic and put in a metal box for a century or more is to me unfathomable. I don't want people standing over a rock and crying over me. What a tragic waste.

I think organ donation should be automatic unless there is a specific reason against it. It should not be a choice to mark a box for donation but should be a choice to mark a box against it, and should be required to have a medical statement notarized for a reason against to be on file.

I stopped going to funerals long ago. Seen far too may buried. Seen too many die because of hate and prejudice. Seen too many that could not be saved. If that makes me a heartless *****, so be it. Even those in the medical profession eventually stop crying over every death of their patients. There are too many still alive that need them more than the dead. Death is inevitable for all of us.

 

[Coyote]

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

whatever you do. don't call it a BABY. Don't you know women that goes around telling everyone. hey, we are going to have fetus. you people are sick in the head and they should use all the people who supports and works at PP as specimens for body parts. The brains won't be usable so they toss them in the garbage...... We'll refer to you as a fetus when we write about how heroic you were

That's a good idea. Allow them to do unlimited human experimentation...upon each other. They truly are mentally ill and should be locked away from humanity. They are a threat to it, as everybody is beginning to see. Too late, of course. The damage is done.

No one is talking about human experimentation or experimentation on living beings. Hyperbole much? Or just the usual dishonest rhetoric. If so, I suggest you organize protests against cadever organ and tissue donation.

Sorry but I have already made arrangement for what is viable to be donated to science. I would be glad for students and scientists to learn from me. It could save others from suffering or even death. Otherwise I would just be so much worm food. Why anyone would want their bodies filled with plastic and put in a metal box for a century or more is to me unfathomable. I don't want people standing over a rock and crying over me. What a tragic waste.

I think organ donation should be automatic unless there is a specific reason against it. It should not be a choice to mark a box for donation but should be a choice to mark a box against it, and should be required to have a medical statement notarized for a reason against to be on file.

I stopped going to funerals long ago. Seen far too may buried. Seen too many die because of hate and prejudice. Seen too many that could not be saved. If that makes me a heartless *****, so be it. Even those in the medical profession eventually stop crying over every death of their patients. There are too many still alive that need them more than the dead. Death is inevitable for all of us.

I have checked off for organ donation, and I may also donate my body for medical or cadever research if I'm not cremated. Why would I care what happens to me after I'm gone? I won't. As they say - ashes to ashes, dust to dust. I'd rather fertilize an oak tree and donate organs. At least something alive will come of it.

 

[aris2chat]

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

Around 2 million of those potential embryos are destroyed each year in the US.