Petraeus Says Florida Church Koran Burning Threatens Troops

[Capitalist]

If he was burning his personal collection of books he wouldn't be attempting to intimidate someone.

The failure is yours.

So tell us, manipoo...why IS he burning the korans?

I've never seen you go this far off the reservation Ravi, and that's saying something.

You call it an act of violence.

You call it an attempt to intimidate.

You call it a hate crime.

Yet you concede that it's legal.

The mere fact that you can't even see how contradictory your reasoning is, or how ridiculous your arguments have become, tells me that you desperately need to unplug and take some time off... for your own good.

True story

I said it may be a hate crime. If burning a cross on someone's lawn is a hate crime I'm not sure why this can't be considered one. If it is a hate crime then it is not legal. I'm not convinced either way.

Wouldn't that be destruction of private property (the grass)?

 

[manifold]

If he was burning his personal collection of books he wouldn't be attempting to intimidate someone.

The failure is yours.

So tell us, manipoo...why IS he burning the korans?

I've never seen you go this far off the reservation Ravi, and that's saying something.

You call it an act of violence.

You call it an attempt to intimidate.

You call it a hate crime.

Yet you concede that it's legal.

The mere fact that you can't even see how contradictory your reasoning is, or how ridiculous your arguments have become, tells me that you desperately need to unplug and take some time off... for your own good.

True story

I said it may be a hate crime. If burning a cross on someone's lawn is a hate crime I'm not sure why this can't be considered one. If it is a hate crime then it is not legal. I'm not convinced either way.

If you're not sure that this is protected speech then you DEFINITELY need to take some time off to clear your head.


PS: You do realize that for something to be a hate crime, the act itself has to be criminal... right?

 

[Capitalist]

So I gather all of you are against a law banning flag burning.

As long as it's your own flag.
Are you saying that this country is returning our private property rights?
I hadn't been informed of that change.

 

[saveliberty]

If he was burning his personal collection of books he wouldn't be attempting to intimidate someone.

The failure is yours.

So tell us, manipoo...why IS he burning the korans?

I've never seen you go this far off the reservation Ravi, and that's saying something.

You call it an act of violence.

You call it an attempt to intimidate.

You call it a hate crime.

Yet you concede that it's legal.

The mere fact that you can't even see how contradictory your reasoning is, or how ridiculous your arguments have become, tells me that you desperately need to unplug and take some time off... for your own good.

True story

I said it may be a hate crime. If burning a cross on someone's lawn is a hate crime I'm not sure why this can't be considered one. If it is a hate crime then it is not legal. I'm not convinced either way.

You can burn a US flag and a Bible. This is not a hate crime. Ironicly, I conclude the Pastor seems to be motivated by hate to do it. Strange situation. I like the idea of a media blackout on the event itself. That would be a sign of respect from the rest of us.

 

[Valerie]

I can understand the concerns about the troops, even though I disagree.

What I don't understand (or perhaps now fully understand), is the blatant double standard and hypocrisy being spewed by the left when it comes to tolerance and religious freedom.

Muslims believe that God spoke to Muhammad and the Koran is a holy book.

Pastor Jones believes that the devil spoke to Muhammad and fooled him into believing he was God, and the Koran is an evil book inspired by satan.

Now tell me why one of these beliefs is any more "believable" than the other and why one is worthy of tolerance and the other is not?

They are conflicting religious beliefs, both of which I think are bunk, but if one values freedom of religion and tolerance toward all faiths, why is there no tolerance for Jones to practice his faith as he sees fit?

Neither religion's necessarily more believable than the other, but ceremoniously burning the holy book of other religions is not a religious practice.

Mr Jones can believe what he wants to believe and he is free to express his anger toward Islam by burning their holy book, but it is not a Christian act, it is not an American act, it is a personal act of one American citizen who happens to be a Christian minister.




I don't think the act itself reaches the threshold of intimidation like the KKK burning crosses to intimidate blacks because blacks were actually physically harmed (lynched) in the context of those acts, it was a whole different historical context. Mr Jones may or may not threaten physical harm to Muslims that day, only then would it be the same kind of intimidation IMO. As of right now he's just expressing his opinion and demonstrating his disrespect. I do think burning their holy book is a violent act, however protected by his 1st amendment right to express himself in that manner.

My grandma's family had a cross burnt on their lawn...no one was physically harmed but it most certainly was an act of intimidation.

That's terrible! I'm sure it was very intimidating and I'm glad no one was harmed but the intimidation comes from the invasion of your grandma's personal property and the possibility of being harmed further, since other instances of cross burning did occur in relation to others being physically harmed.

So it is a different context, but let's say your grandma had a pile of Bibles burning on her lawn when she got home. She certainly could feel intimidated and offended by the violent affront to her religion, but there is no other context of physical intimidation to cause her to think she might be lynched next or something, but I would consider that to be a similar type of intimidation because it crosses the threshold onto your grandma's personal property and physical safety.


Unless people start randomly physically harming Muslims and leaving burning Koran's on their lawns, or threatening to do so, it's just not the same level as the act of burning your private copies of the Koran on your own property.

 

[Valerie]

Neither religion's necessarily more believable than the other, but ceremoniously burning the holy book of other religions is not a religious practice.

Says who?

Mr Jones can believe what he wants to believe and he is free to express his anger toward Islam by burning their holy book, but it is not a Christian act, it is not an American act, it is a personal act of one American citizen who happens to be a Christian minister.

As always you are welcome to your opinion and have every right to express it, same as Pastor Jones.

So it is actually your opinion that burning the Koran is a tenet of Christianity???

 

[Ravi]

So you are saying that if she merely observed Catholic bibles being burned on television she should not feel intimidated or that an attempt was made to intimidate her?

 

[syrenn]

Has it occurred to anyone how ridiculous it is the fuss being made already about the very idea of this idiot burning a damned book? It's paper and ink and not exactly the only copy. If Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion, then this is a great time for them to show it.

Bingo!

But they are not. They are saying we will KILL if you dare to burn our book.

Problem is, folks like you are putting your mores and morals on the Muslim world. You're also coming at it from the aspect that you have the moral high ground because your culture is better than theirs...

Moral high ground? You are joking right? I am not saying any damn thing about their culture. I am stating what they are saying. They will KILL if we dare to burn their book.

Now if this nut case preacher said he was going to go to mecca and make a bonfire of their book, i would have no problem with them having riots if the idiot demanded the had the right to do that in THEIR country.

Truthfully i don't give a shit about THEIR culture so long as they keep THEIR culture in THEIR countries.

In THIS country you are given the freedom to burn any thing you want to. If that drives them a bonkers then that is their problem peace loving religion that it is.

 

[Valerie]

So you are saying that if she merely observed Catholic bibles being burned on television she should not feel intimidated or that an attempt was made to intimidate her?

If there was a threat of physical harm to her or her loved ones or her personal property...Otherwise, I think it's just not the same. She can feel offended, disrespected, angry, even intimidated, but why intimidated, unless they are threatening to seek out all copies of the Bible and burn them all or something?

 

[Ravi]

So you are saying that if she merely observed Catholic bibles being burned on television she should not feel intimidated or that an attempt was made to intimidate her?

If there was a threat of physical harm to her or her loved ones or her personal property...Otherwise, I think it's just not the same. She can feel offended, disrespected, angry, even intimidated, but why intimidated, unless they are threatening to seek out all copies of the Bible and burn them all or something?

An attempt was made to get her and her family to leave the area because they were Catholic. So yes, IMO, if the local television or newspaper ran fucktards burning Catholic texts because they believed Catholics were evil I would conclude it is pretty much the same thing.

 

[Meister]

The top U.S. commander in Afghanistan said the planned burning of Qurans on Sept. 11 by a Florida church could put the lives of American troops in danger and damage the war effort.

Gen. David Petraeus said the Taliban would exploit the demonstration for propaganda purposes, drumming up anger toward the U.S. and making it harder for allied troops to carry out their mission of protecting Afghan civilians.

"It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort," Gen. Petraeus said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. "It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community."

Hundreds of Afghans attended a demonstration in Kabul on Monday to protest the plans of Florida pastor Terry Jones, who has said he will burn the Quran on Sept. 11.

Afghan protesters chanted "death to America" and speakers called on the U.S. to withdraw its military convoy. Some of the protesters threw rocks at a passing military convoy, although officials told the rock-throwers to stop.

Military officials fear the protests are likely to spread beyond Kabul to other Afghan cities. In interviews with various media outlets, Mr. Jones has denied his protest will put troops in danger. Mr. Jones has been denied a permit for the demonstration but has said he plans to go forward with the his protest anyway.

Mr. Jones leads a tiny church of just 50 people, but his threat to burn the Muslim holy book has been condemned around the world and has garnered him international attention.

Gen. Petraeus declined to elaborate on precisely what kinds of threats or violence could occur in the wake of such a demonstration. But westerners in Afghanistan have been warned away from restaurants and other public places as tensions arise over the matter.

...

Petraeus Condemns U.S. Church's Plan to Burn Qurans - WSJ.com

Who are you going to believe, General Petraeus or this dumbass pastor?

Even though this burning is legal.....the pastor has to be one whacked person even to think about doing this. I do hope he see's the light from his own Bible to do the right thing, if not...I question if he really ever had a spiritual guidance from the Book.

 

[Valerie]

So you are saying that if she merely observed Catholic bibles being burned on television she should not feel intimidated or that an attempt was made to intimidate her?

If there was a threat of physical harm to her or her loved ones or her personal property...Otherwise, I think it's just not the same. She can feel offended, disrespected, angry, even intimidated, but why intimidated, unless they are threatening to seek out all copies of the Bible and burn them all or something?

An attempt was made to get her and her family to leave the area because they were Catholic. So yes, IMO, if the local television or newspaper ran fucktards burning Catholic texts because they believed Catholics were evil I would conclude it is pretty much the same thing.

I guess a case could be made if Muslims were feeling threatened in a similar manner, being intimidated out of neighborhoods and such...I haven't heard about anything like that going on, but maybe it is happening.


FTR - Many Americans felt intimidated by images of planes crashing into buildings along with ongoing images of Muslims dancing in the streets screaming Jihad and death to America



Anyway, I hate what this guy is doing and I hate that he is getting all this attention and legitimizing the deranged perception that Christians are at war with Islam. Does this make me a hateful person?





BTW - Have you seen all the big signs they have over in Indonesia? Do they have a Kinkos over there or something? Who is supplying all this propaganda, I wonder?

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/09/09/indonesia.quran.letter/t1larg.jpg

 

[Ravi]

If there was a threat of physical harm to her or her loved ones or her personal property...Otherwise, I think it's just not the same. She can feel offended, disrespected, angry, even intimidated, but why intimidated, unless they are threatening to seek out all copies of the Bible and burn them all or something?

An attempt was made to get her and her family to leave the area because they were Catholic. So yes, IMO, if the local television or newspaper ran fucktards burning Catholic texts because they believed Catholics were evil I would conclude it is pretty much the same thing.

I guess a case could be made if Muslims were feeling threatened in a similar manner, being intimidated out of neighborhoods and such...I haven't heard about anything like that going on, but maybe it is happening.


FTR - Many Americans felt intimidated by images of planes crashing into buildings along with ongoing images of Muslims dancing in the streets screaming Jihad and death to America



Anyway, I hate what this guy is doing and I hate that he is getting all this attention and legitimizing the deranged perception that Christians are at war with Islam. Does this make me a hateful person?





BTW - Have you seen all the big signs they have over in Indonesia? Do they have a Kinkos over there or something? Who is supplying all this propaganda, I wonder?

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/09/09/indonesia.quran.letter/t1larg.jpg

True enough. And many people feel intimidated by black people committing violence or walking around with big hair...but that doesn't mean burning crosses on TV is a proper reaction.

 

[Bootneck]

Well one thing is for sure. Thanks to this pastor, the shit is already hitting the fan here!! Thanks to him, we're all going to have to work harder at even greater risk. The biggest tragedy, however, is a lot of the good that is now being undone. Talk about how to throw away the opportunity to win hearts and minds. I hope he is proud of himself. I hope he is also proud of what he is doing to the image of the USA throughout the world. Make your voices heard people...loud and clear!

 

[Colin]

Well one thing is for sure. Thanks to this pastor, the shit is already hitting the fan here!! Thanks to him, we're all going to have to work harder at even greater risk. The biggest tragedy, however, is a lot of the good that is now being undone. Talk about how to throw away the opportunity to win hearts and minds. I hope he is proud of himself. I hope he is also proud of what he is doing to the image of the USA throughout the world. Make your voices heard people...loud and clear!

Stop complaining! Think of the overtime!!

 

[syrenn]

Well one thing is for sure. Thanks to this pastor, the shit is already hitting the fan here!! Thanks to him, we're all going to have to work harder at even greater risk. The biggest tragedy, however, is a lot of the good that is now being undone. Talk about how to throw away the opportunity to win hearts and minds. I hope he is proud of himself. I hope he is also proud of what he is doing to the image of the USA throughout the world. Make your voices heard people...loud and clear!

I don't believe that their is any winning their hearts and minds. It is amazing however that they are having tantrums already about something that has not even occurred.

 

[manifold]

Neither religion's necessarily more believable than the other, but ceremoniously burning the holy book of other religions is not a religious practice.

Says who?

Mr Jones can believe what he wants to believe and he is free to express his anger toward Islam by burning their holy book, but it is not a Christian act, it is not an American act, it is a personal act of one American citizen who happens to be a Christian minister.

As always you are welcome to your opinion and have every right to express it, same as Pastor Jones.

So it is actually your opinion that burning the Koran is a tenet of Christianity???

Not any denomination of Christianity I would consider following.

But of course you already know that's not the point and this is your way of tacitly acknowledging that I'm right, and for that I thank you.

 

[random3434]

Well one thing is for sure. Thanks to this pastor, the shit is already hitting the fan here!! Thanks to him, we're all going to have to work harder at even greater risk. The biggest tragedy, however, is a lot of the good that is now being undone. Talk about how to throw away the opportunity to win hearts and minds. I hope he is proud of himself. I hope he is also proud of what he is doing to the image of the USA throughout the world. Make your voices heard people...loud and clear!

Hmmmm, spoken from someone that is THERE, and not some Chickenhawk or hypocrite who doesn't see the long term consequences of the harm this will do the soldiers...........

 

[WillowTree]

Well one thing is for sure. Thanks to this pastor, the shit is already hitting the fan here!! Thanks to him, we're all going to have to work harder at even greater risk. The biggest tragedy, however, is a lot of the good that is now being undone. Talk about how to throw away the opportunity to win hearts and minds. I hope he is proud of himself. I hope he is also proud of what he is doing to the image of the USA throughout the world. Make your voices heard people...loud and clear!

So you blame the pastor? And, not the ones throwing the shit at the fan blades? Guess we can flush free speech (however vile) down the toilet. And whatever made you think you could win the hearts and minds of these folk? Didn't they murder a Danish man for a cartoon? Does that sound reasonable to you?

 

[Ravi]

Well one thing is for sure. Thanks to this pastor, the shit is already hitting the fan here!! Thanks to him, we're all going to have to work harder at even greater risk. The biggest tragedy, however, is a lot of the good that is now being undone. Talk about how to throw away the opportunity to win hearts and minds. I hope he is proud of himself. I hope he is also proud of what he is doing to the image of the USA throughout the world. Make your voices heard people...loud and clear!

Thanks for letting us know. Be safe.