Pete Buttigieg’s Plan Would Decriminalize Possession of All Drugs

[EvilCat Breath]

Rehab only helps those who want to stop using.

I don't care if you confine a drug user for 5 years in a rehab
if they do not want to stop using drugs they won't

Addiction is not a disease, it's a choice

For most of the people its not a choice. People didn't say to themselves I want to be a drug and alcohol addict.

It most certainly is a choice.

People who are drug addicts and alcoholics didn't choose to stop
using drugs or drinking, otherwise they wouldn't be addicts

No once they get hooked they have a hard time stopping.

No, being 'hard' to quit is not a reason, it's an excuse

So you are all for taking half of the 80+billion and having more inpatient clinics. Good to know, you'd rather treat than imprison.

An involuntary inpatient clinic is a prison.

 

[pknopp]

While I support this idea I do not trust him to actually follow through.

 

[pknopp]

Only the looney liberals could think not having enough crack heads and meth heads wandering the streets is a problem. ... ..

They aren't put in prison for that anyway. There isn't enough room. What happens is they get fined. They can't pay the fines and then things like their drivers license get suspended. Now they can't legally drive to work or get insurance on their vehicle.

So they go on welfare which you pay for.

 

[keepitreal]

Well the US spends 80 billion + a year on prisons, so take 1/2 of that and make inpatient rehabs that treat drug addiction.

Rehab only helps those who want to stop using.

I don't care if you confine a drug user for 5 years in a rehab
if they do not want to stop using drugs they won't

Addiction is not a disease, it's a choice

For most of the people its not a choice. People didn't say to themselves I want to be a drug and alcohol addict.

It most certainly is a choice.

People who are drug addicts and alcoholics didn't choose to stop
using drugs or drinking, otherwise they wouldn't be addicts

No once they get hooked they have a hard time stopping.

No, being 'hard' to quit is not a reason, it's an excuse

So you are all for taking half of the 80+billion and having more inpatient clinics. Good to know, you'd rather treat than imprison.

Um, you are aware there is 'drug treatment' in prison, right

Again, if the desire to quit using isn't there....
doing whatever it takes to stay clean
instead of doing whatever it takes to get high,
IT DOESN'T MATTER

People in active addiction are the greatest manipulators
Addicts who really don't want to stop using,
use 'treatment' to get people to lay off and manipulate their enablers
by using 'treatment' psycho babble lingo, like relapse,
when they've never stopped using to begin with.

While I do not wish to nor is it my intention to
take away from any 'recovering' addict
who found success in a 'treatment' program
but the fact is, it's a revolving door, big money sham...

that replaces accountability for excuses
and substitutes the truth for appeasing fallacies
where 'recovery' is a conditional process and failure is normal
which makes a life of 'sobriety' an overwhelming burden

$40 billion dollars invested in drug rehabs
will do about as much good for drug users
as $700 billion dollars in bailouts did for homeowners

 

[Harry Dresden]

Well the US spends 80 billion + a year on prisons, so take 1/2 of that and make inpatient rehabs that treat drug addiction.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.

Legalizing it, just means they'll be shooting up, strung out, and pooping in your yard. Or even attacking people.

Secondly, I'm not sure what the Federal Government has to do with this. If Mayor Pete wants to setup a drug rehab program in his city, I'm all for it. Do whatever you want.

Why is the Federal Government being involved in this? The Federal Government should leave drug enforcement and such, to the states.

That said....

As it relates to drug rehab, I need more evidence. Specifically, I would like some state, or city, to fund and run their own drug rehab program, and lets actually see how it works.

My issue is, for many different addictions, the relapse rate is exceptionally high. My concern, is that you are going to spend millions on rehab for these people, and have a relapse rate of over 60%.... because we've seen relapse rates of over 60% in many of these situations.

And when you have a relapse, you end up with them in prison anyway.... except you have already spent millions giving them treatment.

The way you have success requires the willingness of the individual. Just look at the 12-step for alcoholics anonymous. What's the very first step? First step, before anything else, is admit you have a problem, and that you need help.

Why? Because until the individual admits their drunkenness is a problem.... and that they need help.... AA knows that nothing they do can help that person. Nothing. Until the individual himself, or herself, admits that their drinking is a problem, and that they need help to get out of it.... nothing else matters. AA knows this. They know this from decades of experience. For almost 100 years now, they know that without that first step, nothing will help these people.

And I would submit to you, that it is exactly because of that, that forced rehab doesn't work. That's why you have a 60% relapse rate. And I actually believe that number is low. That is only the number that they know relapse, and only the ones they know relapsed in the time frame of the data. The guy whose back on drugs the day after the data is collected, didn't relapse, and neither did the guy who hasn't been caught.

Simply put, these people pushed into rehab, some don't believe they have a problem, and some don't think they need help. They are just taking rehab to avoid being in prison, at a huge cost to tax payers.

I think most of these people, if they believed they had a problem and needed help, they would have been in rehab, before they were ever in the court system.

That isn't to say we shouldn't investigate your idea, I'm all for it. But before we screw over the entire nation by making a bad national policy, I want to see at least one state running this program for 5 to 10 years.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.
come on Andy...there are drug addicted people all over the streets?....a little exaggerated dont you think?...

 

[Meister]

Well the US spends 80 billion + a year on prisons, so take 1/2 of that and make inpatient rehabs that treat drug addiction.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.

Legalizing it, just means they'll be shooting up, strung out, and pooping in your yard. Or even attacking people.

Secondly, I'm not sure what the Federal Government has to do with this. If Mayor Pete wants to setup a drug rehab program in his city, I'm all for it. Do whatever you want.

Why is the Federal Government being involved in this? The Federal Government should leave drug enforcement and such, to the states.

That said....

As it relates to drug rehab, I need more evidence. Specifically, I would like some state, or city, to fund and run their own drug rehab program, and lets actually see how it works.

My issue is, for many different addictions, the relapse rate is exceptionally high. My concern, is that you are going to spend millions on rehab for these people, and have a relapse rate of over 60%.... because we've seen relapse rates of over 60% in many of these situations.

And when you have a relapse, you end up with them in prison anyway.... except you have already spent millions giving them treatment.

The way you have success requires the willingness of the individual. Just look at the 12-step for alcoholics anonymous. What's the very first step? First step, before anything else, is admit you have a problem, and that you need help.

Why? Because until the individual admits their drunkenness is a problem.... and that they need help.... AA knows that nothing they do can help that person. Nothing. Until the individual himself, or herself, admits that their drinking is a problem, and that they need help to get out of it.... nothing else matters. AA knows this. They know this from decades of experience. For almost 100 years now, they know that without that first step, nothing will help these people.

And I would submit to you, that it is exactly because of that, that forced rehab doesn't work. That's why you have a 60% relapse rate. And I actually believe that number is low. That is only the number that they know relapse, and only the ones they know relapsed in the time frame of the data. The guy whose back on drugs the day after the data is collected, didn't relapse, and neither did the guy who hasn't been caught.

Simply put, these people pushed into rehab, some don't believe they have a problem, and some don't think they need help. They are just taking rehab to avoid being in prison, at a huge cost to tax payers.

I think most of these people, if they believed they had a problem and needed help, they would have been in rehab, before they were ever in the court system.

That isn't to say we shouldn't investigate your idea, I'm all for it. But before we screw over the entire nation by making a bad national policy, I want to see at least one state running this program for 5 to 10 years.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.
come on Andy...there are drug addicted people all over the streets?....a little exaggerated dont you think?...

Hitting the streets again, Harry? lol

 

[Harry Dresden]

Either you have no drugs or you don't have drugs. This cherry picking is absurd. Having stated that the citzen should be given free will. However, once they impose on others and become a burden to society they should be executed. If drugs are illegal this goes for dealers and distributors as well. They should be executed, swiftly.

are you related to Tipsy?....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Well the US spends 80 billion + a year on prisons, so take 1/2 of that and make inpatient rehabs that treat drug addiction.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.

Legalizing it, just means they'll be shooting up, strung out, and pooping in your yard. Or even attacking people.

Secondly, I'm not sure what the Federal Government has to do with this. If Mayor Pete wants to setup a drug rehab program in his city, I'm all for it. Do whatever you want.

Why is the Federal Government being involved in this? The Federal Government should leave drug enforcement and such, to the states.

That said....

As it relates to drug rehab, I need more evidence. Specifically, I would like some state, or city, to fund and run their own drug rehab program, and lets actually see how it works.

My issue is, for many different addictions, the relapse rate is exceptionally high. My concern, is that you are going to spend millions on rehab for these people, and have a relapse rate of over 60%.... because we've seen relapse rates of over 60% in many of these situations.

And when you have a relapse, you end up with them in prison anyway.... except you have already spent millions giving them treatment.

The way you have success requires the willingness of the individual. Just look at the 12-step for alcoholics anonymous. What's the very first step? First step, before anything else, is admit you have a problem, and that you need help.

Why? Because until the individual admits their drunkenness is a problem.... and that they need help.... AA knows that nothing they do can help that person. Nothing. Until the individual himself, or herself, admits that their drinking is a problem, and that they need help to get out of it.... nothing else matters. AA knows this. They know this from decades of experience. For almost 100 years now, they know that without that first step, nothing will help these people.

And I would submit to you, that it is exactly because of that, that forced rehab doesn't work. That's why you have a 60% relapse rate. And I actually believe that number is low. That is only the number that they know relapse, and only the ones they know relapsed in the time frame of the data. The guy whose back on drugs the day after the data is collected, didn't relapse, and neither did the guy who hasn't been caught.

Simply put, these people pushed into rehab, some don't believe they have a problem, and some don't think they need help. They are just taking rehab to avoid being in prison, at a huge cost to tax payers.

I think most of these people, if they believed they had a problem and needed help, they would have been in rehab, before they were ever in the court system.

That isn't to say we shouldn't investigate your idea, I'm all for it. But before we screw over the entire nation by making a bad national policy, I want to see at least one state running this program for 5 to 10 years.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.
come on Andy...there are drug addicted people all over the streets?....a little exaggerated dont you think?...

Hitting the streets again, Harry? lol

not any more.....to many drug addicted people around.....lol....

 

[Andylusion]

Well the US spends 80 billion + a year on prisons, so take 1/2 of that and make inpatient rehabs that treat drug addiction.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.

Legalizing it, just means they'll be shooting up, strung out, and pooping in your yard. Or even attacking people.

Secondly, I'm not sure what the Federal Government has to do with this. If Mayor Pete wants to setup a drug rehab program in his city, I'm all for it. Do whatever you want.

Why is the Federal Government being involved in this? The Federal Government should leave drug enforcement and such, to the states.

That said....

As it relates to drug rehab, I need more evidence. Specifically, I would like some state, or city, to fund and run their own drug rehab program, and lets actually see how it works.

My issue is, for many different addictions, the relapse rate is exceptionally high. My concern, is that you are going to spend millions on rehab for these people, and have a relapse rate of over 60%.... because we've seen relapse rates of over 60% in many of these situations.

And when you have a relapse, you end up with them in prison anyway.... except you have already spent millions giving them treatment.

The way you have success requires the willingness of the individual. Just look at the 12-step for alcoholics anonymous. What's the very first step? First step, before anything else, is admit you have a problem, and that you need help.

Why? Because until the individual admits their drunkenness is a problem.... and that they need help.... AA knows that nothing they do can help that person. Nothing. Until the individual himself, or herself, admits that their drinking is a problem, and that they need help to get out of it.... nothing else matters. AA knows this. They know this from decades of experience. For almost 100 years now, they know that without that first step, nothing will help these people.

And I would submit to you, that it is exactly because of that, that forced rehab doesn't work. That's why you have a 60% relapse rate. And I actually believe that number is low. That is only the number that they know relapse, and only the ones they know relapsed in the time frame of the data. The guy whose back on drugs the day after the data is collected, didn't relapse, and neither did the guy who hasn't been caught.

Simply put, these people pushed into rehab, some don't believe they have a problem, and some don't think they need help. They are just taking rehab to avoid being in prison, at a huge cost to tax payers.

I think most of these people, if they believed they had a problem and needed help, they would have been in rehab, before they were ever in the court system.

That isn't to say we shouldn't investigate your idea, I'm all for it. But before we screw over the entire nation by making a bad national policy, I want to see at least one state running this program for 5 to 10 years.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.
come on Andy...there are drug addicted people all over the streets?....a little exaggerated dont you think?...

Does not appear to be an exaggeration. Now I will obviously grant you that I don't live in California. Which is exactly why every single time I meet someone, or talk to someone, who does live, or has lived in California.... what is it like? And thus far, in the past 2 years, every single person I've talked to, says the videos and news stories out of California are all entirely accurate.

They say that dirty needles are all over the place. That people are often strung out right on the sidewalk. That they have to put rocks and logs and other obstacles in parking lots to prevent them from putting up tents, and shooting up right in their parking lot, and then the police won't remove them.

Neighbors Not Complaining About Large Logs Placed On Oakland Street To Deter Homeless

Those needles littering the streets? The city gave them out

So, I'll grant you that I am not physically there to see it all first hand.... but given I've talked to dozens of people who either live there now, or used to live there but left, and they all collaborate what the news papers are saying....

No, I don't honestly think it's an exaggeration.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Well the US spends 80 billion + a year on prisons, so take 1/2 of that and make inpatient rehabs that treat drug addiction.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.

Legalizing it, just means they'll be shooting up, strung out, and pooping in your yard. Or even attacking people.

Secondly, I'm not sure what the Federal Government has to do with this. If Mayor Pete wants to setup a drug rehab program in his city, I'm all for it. Do whatever you want.

Why is the Federal Government being involved in this? The Federal Government should leave drug enforcement and such, to the states.

That said....

As it relates to drug rehab, I need more evidence. Specifically, I would like some state, or city, to fund and run their own drug rehab program, and lets actually see how it works.

My issue is, for many different addictions, the relapse rate is exceptionally high. My concern, is that you are going to spend millions on rehab for these people, and have a relapse rate of over 60%.... because we've seen relapse rates of over 60% in many of these situations.

And when you have a relapse, you end up with them in prison anyway.... except you have already spent millions giving them treatment.

The way you have success requires the willingness of the individual. Just look at the 12-step for alcoholics anonymous. What's the very first step? First step, before anything else, is admit you have a problem, and that you need help.

Why? Because until the individual admits their drunkenness is a problem.... and that they need help.... AA knows that nothing they do can help that person. Nothing. Until the individual himself, or herself, admits that their drinking is a problem, and that they need help to get out of it.... nothing else matters. AA knows this. They know this from decades of experience. For almost 100 years now, they know that without that first step, nothing will help these people.

And I would submit to you, that it is exactly because of that, that forced rehab doesn't work. That's why you have a 60% relapse rate. And I actually believe that number is low. That is only the number that they know relapse, and only the ones they know relapsed in the time frame of the data. The guy whose back on drugs the day after the data is collected, didn't relapse, and neither did the guy who hasn't been caught.

Simply put, these people pushed into rehab, some don't believe they have a problem, and some don't think they need help. They are just taking rehab to avoid being in prison, at a huge cost to tax payers.

I think most of these people, if they believed they had a problem and needed help, they would have been in rehab, before they were ever in the court system.

That isn't to say we shouldn't investigate your idea, I'm all for it. But before we screw over the entire nation by making a bad national policy, I want to see at least one state running this program for 5 to 10 years.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.
come on Andy...there are drug addicted people all over the streets?....a little exaggerated dont you think?...

Does not appear to be an exaggeration. Now I will obviously grant you that I don't live in California. Which is exactly why every single time I meet someone, or talk to someone, who does live, or has lived in California.... what is it like? And thus far, in the past 2 years, every single person I've talked to, says the videos and news stories out of California are all entirely accurate.

They say that dirty needles are all over the place. That people are often strung out right on the sidewalk. That they have to put rocks and logs and other obstacles in parking lots to prevent them from putting up tents, and shooting up right in their parking lot, and then the police won't remove them.

View attachment 296970

Neighbors Not Complaining About Large Logs Placed On Oakland Street To Deter Homeless

Those needles littering the streets? The city gave them out

So, I'll grant you that I am not physically there to see it all first hand.... but given I've talked to dozens of people who either live there now, or used to live there but left, and they all collaborate what the news papers are saying....

No, I don't honestly think it's an exaggeration.

Andy you said there are drug addicts everywhere.....all i see is some logs.....

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Legalising drugs has worked really well in Portugal. Google it.

 

[Andylusion]

Well the US spends 80 billion + a year on prisons, so take 1/2 of that and make inpatient rehabs that treat drug addiction.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.

Legalizing it, just means they'll be shooting up, strung out, and pooping in your yard. Or even attacking people.

Secondly, I'm not sure what the Federal Government has to do with this. If Mayor Pete wants to setup a drug rehab program in his city, I'm all for it. Do whatever you want.

Why is the Federal Government being involved in this? The Federal Government should leave drug enforcement and such, to the states.

That said....

As it relates to drug rehab, I need more evidence. Specifically, I would like some state, or city, to fund and run their own drug rehab program, and lets actually see how it works.

My issue is, for many different addictions, the relapse rate is exceptionally high. My concern, is that you are going to spend millions on rehab for these people, and have a relapse rate of over 60%.... because we've seen relapse rates of over 60% in many of these situations.

And when you have a relapse, you end up with them in prison anyway.... except you have already spent millions giving them treatment.

The way you have success requires the willingness of the individual. Just look at the 12-step for alcoholics anonymous. What's the very first step? First step, before anything else, is admit you have a problem, and that you need help.

Why? Because until the individual admits their drunkenness is a problem.... and that they need help.... AA knows that nothing they do can help that person. Nothing. Until the individual himself, or herself, admits that their drinking is a problem, and that they need help to get out of it.... nothing else matters. AA knows this. They know this from decades of experience. For almost 100 years now, they know that without that first step, nothing will help these people.

And I would submit to you, that it is exactly because of that, that forced rehab doesn't work. That's why you have a 60% relapse rate. And I actually believe that number is low. That is only the number that they know relapse, and only the ones they know relapsed in the time frame of the data. The guy whose back on drugs the day after the data is collected, didn't relapse, and neither did the guy who hasn't been caught.

Simply put, these people pushed into rehab, some don't believe they have a problem, and some don't think they need help. They are just taking rehab to avoid being in prison, at a huge cost to tax payers.

I think most of these people, if they believed they had a problem and needed help, they would have been in rehab, before they were ever in the court system.

That isn't to say we shouldn't investigate your idea, I'm all for it. But before we screw over the entire nation by making a bad national policy, I want to see at least one state running this program for 5 to 10 years.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.
come on Andy...there are drug addicted people all over the streets?....a little exaggerated dont you think?...

Does not appear to be an exaggeration. Now I will obviously grant you that I don't live in California. Which is exactly why every single time I meet someone, or talk to someone, who does live, or has lived in California.... what is it like? And thus far, in the past 2 years, every single person I've talked to, says the videos and news stories out of California are all entirely accurate.

They say that dirty needles are all over the place. That people are often strung out right on the sidewalk. That they have to put rocks and logs and other obstacles in parking lots to prevent them from putting up tents, and shooting up right in their parking lot, and then the police won't remove them.

View attachment 296970

Neighbors Not Complaining About Large Logs Placed On Oakland Street To Deter Homeless

Those needles littering the streets? The city gave them out

So, I'll grant you that I am not physically there to see it all first hand.... but given I've talked to dozens of people who either live there now, or used to live there but left, and they all collaborate what the news papers are saying....

No, I don't honestly think it's an exaggeration.

Andy you said there are drug addicts everywhere.....all i see is some logs.....

Well yes, they had to remove them.... that's why the logs are there. Ironically, in some locations the authorities are removing the logs, and then the druggies return.

By the way... I know you are not a toddler that only looks at the pictures.... I posted links. One of which is specific to needles all over California. Don't regress to toddlerism where you look at one picture, and then ignore all other evidence given.

 

[keepitreal]

That's pretty funny. How do you get addicted and overdose on a prescription where only enough is given you at a time to meet absolute minimal requirements for a few days to give you mild relief to where you'd have to take half the weeks supply just to cop a decent buzz?

Wow...and there you have it.

Will the wizard be getting back to you
about the brain you so desperately need anytime soon?

**** off jackass. You obviously haven't any real answer to the direct questions asked you, so you've already lost.

*****, please

You should have been swallowed

Your rant revealed such an extreme depth of ignorance
it made even the regular village idiots here seem less idiotic

haven't any real answer to the direct questions asked you

If I wanted to kill myself
I could climb your ego and jump to your IQ


In the US alone, more than 15 million people abuse prescription drugs, more than the combined number who reported abusing cocaine, hallucinogens, inhalants and heroin.

Prescription drug abuse causes the largest percentage of deaths from drug overdosing. Of the 22,400 drug overdose deaths in the US in 2005, opioid painkillers were the most commonly found drug, accounting for 38.2% of these deaths.

Depressants, opioids and antidepressants are responsible for more overdose deaths (45%) than cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine and amphetamines (39%) combined.

Of the 1.4 million drug-related emergency room admissions in 2005, 598,542 were associated with abuse of pharmaceuticals alone or with other drugs.

Foundation for a Drug Free World

 

[Persistence Of Memory]

My biggest question is if Pete were to be elected, how would this country address his husband....The First Husband....The First Man??

 

[williepete]

My biggest question is if Pete were to be elected, how would this country address his husband....The First Husband....The First Man??

Well, I'm sure it would raise our standing with Muslim nations bigly.

 

[Persistence Of Memory]

My biggest question is if Pete were to be elected, how would this country address his husband....The First Husband....The First Man??

Well, I'm sure it would raise our standing with Muslim nations bigly.

I'm sure they would look lovely at the inaugural balls dancing happily.

 

[toobfreak]

That's pretty funny. How do you get addicted and overdose on a prescription where only enough is given you at a time to meet absolute minimal requirements for a few days to give you mild relief to where you'd have to take half the weeks supply just to cop a decent buzz?

Wow...and there you have it.

Will the wizard be getting back to you
about the brain you so desperately need anytime soon?

**** off jackass. You obviously haven't any real answer to the direct questions asked you, so you've already lost.

*****, please

You should have been swallowed

Your rant revealed such an extreme depth of ignorance
it made even the regular village idiots here seem less idiotic

haven't any real answer to the direct questions asked you

If I wanted to kill myself
I could climb your ego and jump to your IQ


In the US alone, more than 15 million people abuse prescription drugs, more than the combined number who reported abusing cocaine, hallucinogens, inhalants and heroin.

Prescription drug abuse causes the largest percentage of deaths from drug overdosing. Of the 22,400 drug overdose deaths in the US in 2005, opioid painkillers were the most commonly found drug, accounting for 38.2% of these deaths.

Depressants, opioids and antidepressants are responsible for more overdose deaths (45%) than cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine and amphetamines (39%) combined.

Of the 1.4 million drug-related emergency room admissions in 2005, 598,542 were associated with abuse of pharmaceuticals alone or with other drugs.

Foundation for a Drug Free World

Spare us your schoolyard rants Bonebrain. You'll obviously believe anything if you think scripts are pouring out of pharmacies instead of illegal drugs snuck in across the border and haven't a hair's worth of actual, direct, personal experience to speak from on any of this, thinking yourself an expert because you read some idiot liberal propaganda website on your 2X3 Blackberry. Any doctor handing out drugs in such quantities as you imagine in your fogged up brain is committing a felony now. Kind of like your daddy did when he let his condom tear.

 

[Desperado]

My biggest question is if Pete were to be elected, how would this country address his husband....The First Husband....The First Man??

So would that make Pete the first women president since he is fulfilling that role

 

[Harry Dresden]

Well the US spends 80 billion + a year on prisons, so take 1/2 of that and make inpatient rehabs that treat drug addiction.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.

Legalizing it, just means they'll be shooting up, strung out, and pooping in your yard. Or even attacking people.

Secondly, I'm not sure what the Federal Government has to do with this. If Mayor Pete wants to setup a drug rehab program in his city, I'm all for it. Do whatever you want.

Why is the Federal Government being involved in this? The Federal Government should leave drug enforcement and such, to the states.

That said....

As it relates to drug rehab, I need more evidence. Specifically, I would like some state, or city, to fund and run their own drug rehab program, and lets actually see how it works.

My issue is, for many different addictions, the relapse rate is exceptionally high. My concern, is that you are going to spend millions on rehab for these people, and have a relapse rate of over 60%.... because we've seen relapse rates of over 60% in many of these situations.

And when you have a relapse, you end up with them in prison anyway.... except you have already spent millions giving them treatment.

The way you have success requires the willingness of the individual. Just look at the 12-step for alcoholics anonymous. What's the very first step? First step, before anything else, is admit you have a problem, and that you need help.

Why? Because until the individual admits their drunkenness is a problem.... and that they need help.... AA knows that nothing they do can help that person. Nothing. Until the individual himself, or herself, admits that their drinking is a problem, and that they need help to get out of it.... nothing else matters. AA knows this. They know this from decades of experience. For almost 100 years now, they know that without that first step, nothing will help these people.

And I would submit to you, that it is exactly because of that, that forced rehab doesn't work. That's why you have a 60% relapse rate. And I actually believe that number is low. That is only the number that they know relapse, and only the ones they know relapsed in the time frame of the data. The guy whose back on drugs the day after the data is collected, didn't relapse, and neither did the guy who hasn't been caught.

Simply put, these people pushed into rehab, some don't believe they have a problem, and some don't think they need help. They are just taking rehab to avoid being in prison, at a huge cost to tax payers.

I think most of these people, if they believed they had a problem and needed help, they would have been in rehab, before they were ever in the court system.

That isn't to say we shouldn't investigate your idea, I'm all for it. But before we screw over the entire nation by making a bad national policy, I want to see at least one state running this program for 5 to 10 years.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.
come on Andy...there are drug addicted people all over the streets?....a little exaggerated dont you think?...

Does not appear to be an exaggeration. Now I will obviously grant you that I don't live in California. Which is exactly why every single time I meet someone, or talk to someone, who does live, or has lived in California.... what is it like? And thus far, in the past 2 years, every single person I've talked to, says the videos and news stories out of California are all entirely accurate.

They say that dirty needles are all over the place. That people are often strung out right on the sidewalk. That they have to put rocks and logs and other obstacles in parking lots to prevent them from putting up tents, and shooting up right in their parking lot, and then the police won't remove them.

View attachment 296970

Neighbors Not Complaining About Large Logs Placed On Oakland Street To Deter Homeless

Those needles littering the streets? The city gave them out

So, I'll grant you that I am not physically there to see it all first hand.... but given I've talked to dozens of people who either live there now, or used to live there but left, and they all collaborate what the news papers are saying....

No, I don't honestly think it's an exaggeration.

Andy you said there are drug addicts everywhere.....all i see is some logs.....

Well yes, they had to remove them.... that's why the logs are there. Ironically, in some locations the authorities are removing the logs, and then the druggies return.

By the way... I know you are not a toddler that only looks at the pictures.... I posted links. One of which is specific to needles all over California. Don't regress to toddlerism where you look at one picture, and then ignore all other evidence given.

unlike you Andy i actually lived there for 50 years and have never seen what you described....drug addicts everywhere....only a toddler would say something so stupid...

 

[Andylusion]

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.

Legalizing it, just means they'll be shooting up, strung out, and pooping in your yard. Or even attacking people.

Secondly, I'm not sure what the Federal Government has to do with this. If Mayor Pete wants to setup a drug rehab program in his city, I'm all for it. Do whatever you want.

Why is the Federal Government being involved in this? The Federal Government should leave drug enforcement and such, to the states.

That said....

As it relates to drug rehab, I need more evidence. Specifically, I would like some state, or city, to fund and run their own drug rehab program, and lets actually see how it works.

My issue is, for many different addictions, the relapse rate is exceptionally high. My concern, is that you are going to spend millions on rehab for these people, and have a relapse rate of over 60%.... because we've seen relapse rates of over 60% in many of these situations.

And when you have a relapse, you end up with them in prison anyway.... except you have already spent millions giving them treatment.

The way you have success requires the willingness of the individual. Just look at the 12-step for alcoholics anonymous. What's the very first step? First step, before anything else, is admit you have a problem, and that you need help.

Why? Because until the individual admits their drunkenness is a problem.... and that they need help.... AA knows that nothing they do can help that person. Nothing. Until the individual himself, or herself, admits that their drinking is a problem, and that they need help to get out of it.... nothing else matters. AA knows this. They know this from decades of experience. For almost 100 years now, they know that without that first step, nothing will help these people.

And I would submit to you, that it is exactly because of that, that forced rehab doesn't work. That's why you have a 60% relapse rate. And I actually believe that number is low. That is only the number that they know relapse, and only the ones they know relapsed in the time frame of the data. The guy whose back on drugs the day after the data is collected, didn't relapse, and neither did the guy who hasn't been caught.

Simply put, these people pushed into rehab, some don't believe they have a problem, and some don't think they need help. They are just taking rehab to avoid being in prison, at a huge cost to tax payers.

I think most of these people, if they believed they had a problem and needed help, they would have been in rehab, before they were ever in the court system.

That isn't to say we shouldn't investigate your idea, I'm all for it. But before we screw over the entire nation by making a bad national policy, I want to see at least one state running this program for 5 to 10 years.

First of all, if you legalize it, then few are even going to get rehab. We know this because look at California. They don't hardly enforce drug laws, there are drug addicted people all over the streets.
come on Andy...there are drug addicted people all over the streets?....a little exaggerated dont you think?...

Does not appear to be an exaggeration. Now I will obviously grant you that I don't live in California. Which is exactly why every single time I meet someone, or talk to someone, who does live, or has lived in California.... what is it like? And thus far, in the past 2 years, every single person I've talked to, says the videos and news stories out of California are all entirely accurate.

They say that dirty needles are all over the place. That people are often strung out right on the sidewalk. That they have to put rocks and logs and other obstacles in parking lots to prevent them from putting up tents, and shooting up right in their parking lot, and then the police won't remove them.

View attachment 296970

Neighbors Not Complaining About Large Logs Placed On Oakland Street To Deter Homeless

Those needles littering the streets? The city gave them out

So, I'll grant you that I am not physically there to see it all first hand.... but given I've talked to dozens of people who either live there now, or used to live there but left, and they all collaborate what the news papers are saying....

No, I don't honestly think it's an exaggeration.

Andy you said there are drug addicts everywhere.....all i see is some logs.....

Well yes, they had to remove them.... that's why the logs are there. Ironically, in some locations the authorities are removing the logs, and then the druggies return.

By the way... I know you are not a toddler that only looks at the pictures.... I posted links. One of which is specific to needles all over California. Don't regress to toddlerism where you look at one picture, and then ignore all other evidence given.

unlike you Andy i actually lived there for 50 years and have never seen what you described....drug addicts everywhere....only a toddler would say something so stupid...

Right... so everyone everywhere is lying... except you.

Thanks, but I'll trust a plethora of sources over random internet guy.