Personally Opposed to Homosexuality?... Judge OK's Expulsion from College...

[Valerie]

The conservative fag-bashers don't even realize the hypocrisy of their position on this.

On the one hand, they insist that regardless of natural attraction, homosexual lifestyle, intercourse, etc. is a behavioral choice, and is therefore not worthy of discrimination protection.

And then this case comes along and they refuse to apply the same reasoning, which dictates that regardless of this woman's religious motivation, the refusal to counsel queers is a behavioral choice.

In summary:

Homosexuality = Choice = Not worthy of discrimination protection
Refusal to counsel queers = Choice = Somehow worthy of discrimination protection

That folks, is a clear cut example of hypocrisy.

once again manifold proves he is an intellectual midget....i fully support gay rights/marriage etc...however, this case violates the 1st amendment...it just so happens to be about homosexual beliefs vis a vis religion....

nice try, but fail

Since you like the hypothetical...Pick any other issue a Christian might feel morally superior to their client over and ask the same questions. How can she become certified in a counseling program when she refuses to counsel her clientele?

 

[Valerie]

What she said.



"Tell him that the sexual orientation was discovered because it was in the patient's file...not that the school or anyone else asked people their orientation"

Obviously, someone had to ask about sexual orientation, or it wouldn't be on record.

Why would it be "in the file?"

Why would it be relevent for a Counselling Grad Student to know the sexual orientation of her subject?

Because the student brought it up.

Ravi said: Because the student brought it up.





Samson please take her off ignore, I've got work to do!

 

[Yurt]

you have to be able to counsel EVERYONE to graduate. what you do after is up to you.

what kind of person picks a program they know they can't complete? did she think she could pick and choose.

now, back to my hypothetical meat store... would you suggest that the owner of such a place has to keep on a muslim who refuses to do that part of their job that requires they handle pork products?

or if such a person works in a school lunch room, where they are employed by a governmental entity ... should he or she have the right to pick and choose because he or she is a muslim?

i'd suggest that the people who are all for this woman would be appalled at the muslim in my hypothetical.

problem with your hypo is....the muslim is protected and the employer must make reasonable accommodations for the the muslim

so in this case, according to current law, the school could have easily made reasonable accomodations....they should not be required to have her believe that homosexuality is moral....if she believes it is not moral according to her religious beliefs, she has a case against the school as the school could have easily accommodated her and not forced her to accept their beliefs

the christian and muslim would be equally protected from discrimination.

no one required her to believe anything... they required her to complete the program and COUNSEL homosexuals without imposing HER religious beliefs on them in accordance with treatment standards.

the law only requires 'reasonable accommodation' when accomodation is reasonable. the muslim and this girl are both out on their butts.

oh really?

Some [Minnesota] Muslim cashiers had declined to scan products such as bacon because doing so would conflict with their religious beliefs. They would ask other cashiers to ring up such purchases, or some customers scanned the items themselves.
Minneapolis-based Target Corp. (TGT) has offered the cashiers the option of wearing gloves, shifting to other positions or transferring to other stores.

"We are confident that this is a reasonable solution for our guests and team members," Target spokeswoman Paula Thornton-Greear said in a statement e-mailed to The Associated Press on Saturday.

The Colossus of Rhodey: Muslim cashiers refuse to touch pork

In a landmark settlement that could change the way Muslims are treated in the workplace, St. Cloud-based Gold'n Plump Inc. has agreed to allow Somali workers short prayer breaks and the right to refuse handling pork at its poultry processing facilities.
The federally mediated agreement is among the first in the nation that requires employers to accommodate the Islamic prayer schedule and the belief, held by many strict Muslims, that the Qur'an prohibits the touching and eating of pork products.

Feds rule Muslims can take prayer breaks, refuse to handle pork - Jihad Watch

Worker wins religious discrimination case

Albert Buonanno of Denver, fired from his job with AT&T for refusing to compromise his religiously-based belief that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong, has won his religious discrimination suit against the telecommunications giant.

Catholic Culture : News Features


and accordign to the plaintiff...the school does want to force her to change her beliefs:

Ward’s attorneys claim the university told her she would only be allowed to remain in the program if she went through a “remediation” program so that she could “see the error of her ways” and change her belief system about homosexuality.

 

[Yurt]

What she said.



"Tell him that the sexual orientation was discovered because it was in the patient's file...not that the school or anyone else asked people their orientation"

Obviously, someone had to ask about sexual orientation, or it wouldn't be on record.

Why would it be "in the file?"

Why would it be relevent for a Counselling Grad Student to know the sexual orientation of her subject?

Because the student brought it up.

link

 

[Yurt]

The conservative fag-bashers don't even realize the hypocrisy of their position on this.

On the one hand, they insist that regardless of natural attraction, homosexual lifestyle, intercourse, etc. is a behavioral choice, and is therefore not worthy of discrimination protection.

And then this case comes along and they refuse to apply the same reasoning, which dictates that regardless of this woman's religious motivation, the refusal to counsel queers is a behavioral choice.

In summary:

Homosexuality = Choice = Not worthy of discrimination protection
Refusal to counsel queers = Choice = Somehow worthy of discrimination protection

That folks, is a clear cut example of hypocrisy.

once again manifold proves he is an intellectual midget....i fully support gay rights/marriage etc...however, this case violates the 1st amendment...it just so happens to be about homosexual beliefs vis a vis religion....

nice try, but fail

Since you like the hypothetical...Pick any other issue a Christian might feel morally superior to their client over and ask the same questions. How can she become certified in a counseling program when she refuses to counsel her clientele?

so you support someone being forced to accept that homosexuality is moral?

open the yellow pages...there are counselors who specifically advertise they are christian counselors, this school violated the 1st amendment...and if the court used the "rational basis" test, it used the wrong test, because religious cases get strict scrutiny

 

[Samson]

The conservative fag-bashers don't even realize the hypocrisy of their position on this.

On the one hand, they insist that regardless of natural attraction, homosexual lifestyle, intercourse, etc. is a behavioral choice, and is therefore not worthy of discrimination protection.

And then this case comes along and they refuse to apply the same reasoning, which dictates that regardless of this woman's religious motivation, the refusal to counsel queers is a behavioral choice.

In summary:

Homosexuality = Choice = Not worthy of discrimination protection
Refusal to counsel queers = Choice = Somehow worthy of discrimination protection

That folks, is a clear cut example of hypocrisy.

once again manifold proves he is an intellectual midget....i fully support gay rights/marriage etc...however, this case violates the 1st amendment...it just so happens to be about homosexual beliefs vis a vis religion....

nice try, but fail

Since you like the hypothetical...Pick any other issue a Christian might feel morally superior to their client over and ask the same questions. How can she become certified in a counseling program when she refuses to counsel her clientele?

I agree.

BUT WTF sort of professional asks someone about their sexual preference before offering to do business with them: If this was an Engineering Grad student, would she be expelled for not wishing to work with Queer Clients? No, because in The College of Engineering, they never consider the sexual orientation of clients: It is completely immaterial.

However, for some reason, sexual orientation IS MATERIAL in the College of Counselling.

Why?

 

[topspin]

she can say it's not god's will till the cow's come home, how that makes it a right answer in anything other than a religion class is beyond me.

 

[Samson]

Obviously, someone had to ask about sexual orientation, or it wouldn't be on record.

Why would it be "in the file?"

Why would it be relevent for a Counselling Grad Student to know the sexual orientation of her subject?

Because the student brought it up.

Ravi said: Because the student brought it up.





Samson please take her off ignore, I've got work to do!

My SOP is to place all those who neg rep me on ignore.

At any rate, you don't know if she brought it up, and if she did, she should have been told that it wasn't necessary to know. Instead, she was given the information, "in the File." Why?

 

[Valerie]

once again manifold proves he is an intellectual midget....i fully support gay rights/marriage etc...however, this case violates the 1st amendment...it just so happens to be about homosexual beliefs vis a vis religion....

nice try, but fail

Since you like the hypothetical...Pick any other issue a Christian might feel morally superior to their client over and ask the same questions. How can she become certified in a counseling program when she refuses to counsel her clientele?

I agree.

BUT WTF sort of professional asks someone about their sexual preference before offering to do business with them: If this was an Engineering Grad student, would she be expelled for not wishing to work with Queer Clients? No, because in The College of Engineering, they never consider the sexual orientation of clients: It is completely immaterial.

However, for some reason, sexual orientation IS MATERIAL in the College of Counselling.

Why?

I guess since the very nature of counseling is personal and not material.

 

[Valerie]

once again manifold proves he is an intellectual midget....i fully support gay rights/marriage etc...however, this case violates the 1st amendment...it just so happens to be about homosexual beliefs vis a vis religion....

nice try, but fail

Since you like the hypothetical...Pick any other issue a Christian might feel morally superior to their client over and ask the same questions. How can she become certified in a counseling program when she refuses to counsel her clientele?

so you support someone being forced to accept that homosexuality is moral?

open the yellow pages...there are counselors who specifically advertise they are christian counselors, this school violated the 1st amendment...and if the court used the "rational basis" test, it used the wrong test, because religious cases get strict scrutiny

Nope and I don't think that graduate school counseling program was requiring her to accept it as moral either.

 

[Valerie]

problem with your hypo is....the muslim is protected and the employer must make reasonable accommodations for the the muslim

so in this case, according to current law, the school could have easily made reasonable accomodations....they should not be required to have her believe that homosexuality is moral....if she believes it is not moral according to her religious beliefs, she has a case against the school as the school could have easily accommodated her and not forced her to accept their beliefs

the christian and muslim would be equally protected from discrimination.

no one required her to believe anything... they required her to complete the program and COUNSEL homosexuals without imposing HER religious beliefs on them in accordance with treatment standards.

the law only requires 'reasonable accommodation' when accomodation is reasonable. the muslim and this girl are both out on their butts.

oh really?



The Colossus of Rhodey: Muslim cashiers refuse to touch pork

In a landmark settlement that could change the way Muslims are treated in the workplace, St. Cloud-based Gold'n Plump Inc. has agreed to allow Somali workers short prayer breaks and the right to refuse handling pork at its poultry processing facilities.
The federally mediated agreement is among the first in the nation that requires employers to accommodate the Islamic prayer schedule and the belief, held by many strict Muslims, that the Qur'an prohibits the touching and eating of pork products.

Feds rule Muslims can take prayer breaks, refuse to handle pork - Jihad Watch

Worker wins religious discrimination case

Albert Buonanno of Denver, fired from his job with AT&T for refusing to compromise his religiously-based belief that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong, has won his religious discrimination suit against the telecommunications giant.

Catholic Culture : News Features


and accordign to the plaintiff...the school does want to force her to change her beliefs:

Ward’s attorneys claim the university told her she would only be allowed to remain in the program if she went through a “remediation” program so that she could “see the error of her ways” and change her belief system about homosexuality.

This is not an employment discrimination case and that terminology about changing beliefs comes from the author of that article, not necessarily the actual school policy and their requirements for graduating with a counseling degree.

 

[Samson]

Since you like the hypothetical...Pick any other issue a Christian might feel morally superior to their client over and ask the same questions. How can she become certified in a counseling program when she refuses to counsel her clientele?

I agree.

BUT WTF sort of professional asks someone about their sexual preference before offering to do business with them: If this was an Engineering Grad student, would she be expelled for not wishing to work with Queer Clients? No, because in The College of Engineering, they never consider the sexual orientation of clients: It is completely immaterial.

However, for some reason, sexual orientation IS MATERIAL in the College of Counselling.

Why?

I guess since the very nature of counseling is personal and not material.

Ok, I'll agree there.

But, why are issues that would lead a queer to seek counselling different than those that would lead anyone else to seek counselling?

Are you saying queers are different from everyone else?

 

[rdean]

Newt Gingrich's lesbian sister said he is opposed to her getting married. She said he's married lot's of women, but she only wants to marry "one".

 

[Yurt]

Newt Gingrich's lesbian sister said he is opposed to her getting married. She said he's married lot's of women, but she only wants to marry "one".

wow...thats really relevant to the discussion

btw, what is the price of tea in china?

 

[Samson]

Newt Gingrich's lesbian sister said he is opposed to her getting married. She said he's married lot's of women, but she only wants to marry "one".

Its always nice to see your contribution, rdean.

Here, have a cold beer, go sit out on the deck, and we'll join you in a few minutes.

 

[Yurt]

the christian and muslim would be equally protected from discrimination.

no one required her to believe anything... they required her to complete the program and COUNSEL homosexuals without imposing HER religious beliefs on them in accordance with treatment standards.

the law only requires 'reasonable accommodation' when accomodation is reasonable. the muslim and this girl are both out on their butts.

oh really?



The Colossus of Rhodey: Muslim cashiers refuse to touch pork


Feds rule Muslims can take prayer breaks, refuse to handle pork - Jihad Watch

Worker wins religious discrimination case

Albert Buonanno of Denver, fired from his job with AT&T for refusing to compromise his religiously-based belief that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong, has won his religious discrimination suit against the telecommunications giant.

Catholic Culture : News Features


and accordign to the plaintiff...the school does want to force her to change her beliefs:

Ward’s attorneys claim the university told her she would only be allowed to remain in the program if she went through a “remediation” program so that she could “see the error of her ways” and change her belief system about homosexuality.

This is not an employment discrimination case and that terminology about changing beliefs comes from the author of that article, not necessarily the actual school policy and their requirements for graduating with a counseling degree.

?

not a discrimination case ....um....he won the "not" discrimination case

and i specifically said it was what the lawyer claimed....good lord, you really don't have good reading comprehension....know wonder you thought i was talking about stealing in that post when the reality is i never once mentioned stealing....

love ya, but please pay more attention to what i write

 

[Valerie]

I agree.

BUT WTF sort of professional asks someone about their sexual preference before offering to do business with them: If this was an Engineering Grad student, would she be expelled for not wishing to work with Queer Clients? No, because in The College of Engineering, they never consider the sexual orientation of clients: It is completely immaterial.

However, for some reason, sexual orientation IS MATERIAL in the College of Counselling.

Why?

I guess since the very nature of counseling is personal and not material.

Ok, I'll agree there.

But, why are issues that would lead a queer to seek counselling different than those that would lead anyone else to seek counselling?

Are you saying queers are different from everyone else?

Oh stop!

Actually, SHE is the one saying that, which is why she does not meet the program requirements.

According to the story, it didn't say that sexuality was the reason for the counseling, only that she saw in the file that the person was gay and so she refused to counsel them.

 

[Valerie]

oh really?



The Colossus of Rhodey: Muslim cashiers refuse to touch pork


Feds rule Muslims can take prayer breaks, refuse to handle pork - Jihad Watch




Catholic Culture : News Features


and accordign to the plaintiff...the school does want to force her to change her beliefs:

Ward’s attorneys claim the university told her she would only be allowed to remain in the program if she went through a “remediation” program so that she could “see the error of her ways” and change her belief system about homosexuality.

This is not an employment discrimination case and that terminology about changing beliefs comes from the author of that article, not necessarily the actual school policy and their requirements for graduating with a counseling degree.

?

not a discrimination case ....um....he won the "not" discrimination case

and i specifically said it was what the lawyer claimed....good lord, you really don't have good reading comprehension....know wonder you thought i was talking about stealing in that post when the reality is i never once mentioned stealing....

love ya, but please pay more attention to what i write

EMPLOYMENT discrimination...as is the case of the AT&T worker you cited which I was responding to.

 

[Yurt]

Since you like the hypothetical...Pick any other issue a Christian might feel morally superior to their client over and ask the same questions. How can she become certified in a counseling program when she refuses to counsel her clientele?

so you support someone being forced to accept that homosexuality is moral?

open the yellow pages...there are counselors who specifically advertise they are christian counselors, this school violated the 1st amendment...and if the court used the "rational basis" test, it used the wrong test, because religious cases get strict scrutiny

Nope and I don't think that graduate school counseling program was requiring her to accept it as moral either.

you can think all you want....it was alleged in the lawsuit...and i don't recall the school denying it

 

[Samson]

I guess since the very nature of counseling is personal and not material.

Ok, I'll agree there.

But, why are issues that would lead a queer to seek counselling different than those that would lead anyone else to seek counselling?

Are you saying queers are different from everyone else?

Oh stop!

Actually, SHE is the one saying that, which is why she does not meet the program requirements.

According to the story, it didn't say that sexuality was the reason for the counseling, only that she saw in the file that the person was gay and so she refused to counsel them.

It must be in the file for a reason, right? Why?

If I was teaching people to counsel, I think excluding anything that may prejudice the counsellor would be prudent: Sexual Preference should be as irrelevent as Religion.......right?