Personal Experiences with the Divine

[sealybobo]

you can deny the existence of God till the cows come home. It doesn't change the reality of my experiences or the experiences of countless others.

I know by the power of the Holy Spirit that our Heavenly Father is real and Jesus Christ lives. The same way I know you are real.

I'm not alone or special in knowing. The Lord reveals Himself to those that seek Him. He always has. And always will.

Yup. And anyone who wants can join your church, the Muslim church, Mormons, Scientology, Budda, Hindu, Jew, etc.

And we are cool with you all having your many different beliefs. Just don't try and impose them on the rest of us.

 

[Iceweasel]

Agnostic atheism? LOL.

number 21 on that link answers this comment.

A link answers it? Well, if it's on the internets it must be true. Meanwhile we'll just ignore the fact that it's a contradiction. Like you.

 

[Iceweasel]

And we are cool with you all having your many different beliefs. Just don't try and impose them on the rest of us.

Too bad atheists don't follow their own advice. But it's good that you actually support Constitutional rights.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Most atheists admit that the most logical position to have is agnostic atheism because you would have to be a god yourself to know for sure AND agnostic is giving theists too much credit.

I'm an agnostic atheist when it comes to generic god but an atheist when it comes to Jesus, Mo or Joe's god(s). Don't buy a word of it.

You said you aren't religious but you still believe in god?

Agnostic atheism? LOL.

number 21 on that link answers this comment.

lol.......

 

[sealybobo]

And we are cool with you all having your many different beliefs. Just don't try and impose them on the rest of us.

Too bad atheists don't follow their own advice. But it's good that you actually support Constitutional rights.

When has anyone ever approached you on the street and said "Did you know there is no god?" Answer, NEVER probably.

And notice if an atheist does approach you in real life that it is you who gets offended or argumentative or defensive about it. It's certainly not us. We don't have an imaginary friend that we care so much about so of course we don't get mad. It is your side that says things like, "why do we reject god?". No one is rejecting god. There is no god, in our opinion.

Also notice it is the GOP that plays the religion card. They labeled the Dems the "godless" party in order to con over middle class and poor voters. We just want the right to have an abortion if we want one. YOU however don't just mind your own business on this one either. You want to impose your religious values on us. Stop that. If you don't want to have an abortion because you are religious, don't. But keep in mind most people who abort believe in god. Hypocrites.

 

[sealybobo]

You guys also try to scare us like your preacher or parents did with hell. Only we aren't stupid adults or impressionable/gullible kids.

 

[sealybobo]

Most atheists admit that the most logical position to have is agnostic atheism because you would have to be a god yourself to know for sure AND agnostic is giving theists too much credit.

I'm an agnostic atheist when it comes to generic god but an atheist when it comes to Jesus, Mo or Joe's god(s). Don't buy a word of it.

You said you aren't religious but you still believe in god?

Agnostic atheism? LOL.

number 21 on that link answers this comment.

lol.......

Argument from incredulity / Lack of imagination and Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. Ignores and does not eliminate the fact that something can seem incredible or unlikely and still be true, or appear to be obvious or likely and yet still be false.

The world is the way it is. Reality does not bend to our personal whim and facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Our personal belief in something does not automatically make it real or true and, conversely, our lack of understanding of a topic does not make it false.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

See also: Critical thinking (a must watch), Richard Feynman on Doubt and Uncertainty (a must watch).

“It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” – Carl Sagan

“God is an ever-receding pocket of ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller as time goes on.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

[sealybobo]

Thinking of the 'Nearly Died Last Night' thread, if people have personal experiences with the divine I'd like to read them.

When I was little, I was scared of the dark, as most of us are. Growing up being told anything I asked God for might be granted, I asked Him once to take away this fear of mine. And He did. By itself, not that big a deal, most of us mature past such fears, but mine vanished as soon as I asked God to take it away. Stands out in my recollection.

Monday night late I was driving and listening to Christian radio and the guy said something very interesting. I wish I could remember the bible verses he was quoting but basically he said that Jesus said not to be fooled by people like that Long Island Medium. He said there will be no contact between the dead and living.

But what was more interesting is that he was dogging Chistians who claim to see the image of the Mother Mary in their toast. Or says they see a demon, angel or ghost. He says that NONE OF THAT is true. No one other than Jesus will come back from the grave.

So a true Christian should not believe they saw a ghost, angel or possession. He said people who claim that stuff have stopped reading the bible and are making stuff up and to stop it.

So a true christian would say BULLSHIT to anyone who claims to have had a personal experience with the divine.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Thinking of the 'Nearly Died Last Night' thread, if people have personal experiences with the divine I'd like to read them.

When I was little, I was scared of the dark, as most of us are. Growing up being told anything I asked God for might be granted, I asked Him once to take away this fear of mine. And He did. By itself, not that big a deal, most of us mature past such fears, but mine vanished as soon as I asked God to take it away. Stands out in my recollection.

Monday night late I was driving and listening to Christian radio and the guy said something very interesting. I wish I could remember the bible verses he was quoting but basically he said that Jesus said not to be fooled by people like that Long Island Medium. He said there will be no contact between the dead and living.

But what was more interesting is that he was dogging Chistians who claim to see the image of the Mother Mary in their toast. Or says they see a demon, angel or ghost. He says that NONE OF THAT is true. No one other than Jesus will come back from the grave.

So a true Christian should not believe they saw a ghost, angel or possession. He said people who claim that stuff have stopped reading the bible and are making stuff up and to stop it.

So a true christian would say BULLSHIT to anyone who claims to have had a personal experience with the divine.

He was talking about the Jewish commandments about idolatry:

# Not to practice onein (observing times or seasons as favorable or unfavorable, using astrology) (Lev. 19:26) (CCN166).
# Not to practice nachesh (doing things based on signs and portents; using charms and incantations) (Lev. 19:26) (CCN165).
# Not to consult ovoth (ghosts) (Lev. 19:31) (CCN170).
# Not to consult yid'onim (wizards) (Lev. 19:31) (CCN171).
# Not to practice kisuf (magic using herbs, stones and objects that people use) (Deut. 18:10) (CCN168).
# Not to practice kessem (a general term for magical practices) (Deut. 18:10) (CCN167).
# Not to practice the art of a chover chaver (casting spells over snakes and scorpions) (Deut. 18:11) (CCN169).
# Not to enquire of an ob (a ghost) (Deut. 18:11) (CCN172).
# Not to seek the maytim (dead) (Deut. 18:11) (CCN174).
# Not to enquire of a yid'oni (wizard) (Deut. 18:11) (CCN173).

Some of the pertinent ones.

Experience with the divine though can be things not forbidden like encountering an angel which happened all the time in the Bible. Or some manifestation of godly power like a miracle or other spiritual thing.

 

[Iceweasel]

Hard to keep track of you theist apologists.

Also, you are wrong. In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to observe it in the form of virtual particles and quantum vacuum fluctuations. They explain why the early universe lack uniformity and provided the seeds for the emergence of structure. These quantum phenomena are also causeless in the sense that they are objectively and irreducibly random, a fact confirmed by tests of non-local realism and Bell’s Theorem.

I haven't apologized for anything. I don't fit in your box so you are throwing a fit. Quantum mechanics doesn't prove something comes from nothing. Energy can become mass and visa versa but the creation of mass or energy hasn't been observed.

 

[Iceweasel]

Then you are a cherry picker just like most other theists who believe in generic god for no good reason.

Oh YOU are convinced? Then there must be a god! Stop the presses!

And just remember, I don't give a shit what you think either until you start suggesting we should be a Christian nation.

I know, you aren't a Christian. Whatever. Who cares? There are so many of you bastardized theists it is hard to keep track of you all. Eventually I'll remember you are a generic retard not one that belongs to any one organized religion. At least with them they believe a story. You don't even believe the story yet still you remain ignorant.

That's ok because so did I for many years too. After I abandoned Christianity I was a generic god follower for many years and some atheists were kind enough to open my eyes and help me evolve all the way to where I no longer believe superstitious fairytales.

And since you don't believe in hell, I really don't have a beef with you. You generic theists are harmless. You all admit you believe for no other reason than you want to believe or you can't believe any other way. Now that is faith.

You're getting hysterical. I gave reasons why I believe in a creator god, I can't understand it for you. I can't prove it so I recognize it's a statement of faith. You, however, can't prove a secular cause and refuse to acknowledge that it too is a statement of faith. You're the hypocrite, not me.

The term agnostic-atheist is a contradiction. If you don't know then you are acknowledging the possibility, which means that you are not an atheist. Trying to massage the English language to get the atheist word in there is pointless and lame.

 

[sealybobo]

Hard to keep track of you theist apologists.

Also, you are wrong. In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to observe it in the form of virtual particles and quantum vacuum fluctuations. They explain why the early universe lack uniformity and provided the seeds for the emergence of structure. These quantum phenomena are also causeless in the sense that they are objectively and irreducibly random, a fact confirmed by tests of non-local realism and Bell’s Theorem.

I haven't apologized for anything. I don't fit in your box so you are throwing a fit. Quantum mechanics doesn't prove something comes from nothing. Energy can become mass and visa versa but the creation of mass or energy hasn't been observed.

Well if anyone is going to figure it out its gonna be science.

Mass Can Be Created Inside Graphene Say Physicists MIT Technology Review

 

[sealybobo]

Simply because you or the scientific community lack a complete understanding of something does not imply a theistic explanation carries any value. Even if there exists some topic on which science can never speak, any understanding could potentially evade us forever – supernatural or metaphysical speculation would not automatically be correct. Uncertainty is the most legitimate position.

Lightning, earthquakes, volcanos, disease, mental illness, speciation, planetary orbits and numerous other phenomena have been historically labelled ‘supernatural’ only to later be more thoroughly and elegantly explained by science. In fact, every mystery ever demonstrably solved has had a non-supernatural explanation. To suggest that science cannot or will not explain a phenomena, and that only theism can, is hubris of the highest order.

Using ‘god’ to explain something explains nothing. God’s supposed powers and how they work are a mystery. An explanation is intended to clarify and extend knowledge. Attributing a phenomenon to the magical powers of a supernatural being does neither. Worse still, this presumption acts to prevent any deeper investigation, being little more than a form of blissful ignorance.

 

[sealybobo]

Science observes the physical universe, makes models of how it works and then refines those models through further observation. When something interacts with the physical universe, such as through light, motion, sound, heat, mass or gravity, it becomes a natural phenomena and thus open to scientific inquiry. If it does not interact with the physical universe then it cannot be said to exist in any meaningful or perceivable way.

Proposing the existence of an entity or phenomena that can never be investigated via empirical, experimental or reproducible means moves it from the realm of reality and into the realm of unfalsifiable speculation. The inability of science to investigate or disprove such a hypothesis is not the same as proving it true and neither does it automatically lend credence to any metaphysical or theological argument. If such reasoning were actually permissible then one could claim anything imaginable to be real or true if only because it could not be proven false.

Relying on supernatural explanations is a cop-out or a dead-end to deepening our understanding of reality. If a natural cause for something is not known, the scientific approach is to say “I don’t know yet” and keep on looking, not to presume an answer which makes us comfortable.

 

[sealybobo]

Then you are a cherry picker just like most other theists who believe in generic god for no good reason.

Oh YOU are convinced? Then there must be a god! Stop the presses!

And just remember, I don't give a shit what you think either until you start suggesting we should be a Christian nation.

I know, you aren't a Christian. Whatever. Who cares? There are so many of you bastardized theists it is hard to keep track of you all. Eventually I'll remember you are a generic retard not one that belongs to any one organized religion. At least with them they believe a story. You don't even believe the story yet still you remain ignorant.

That's ok because so did I for many years too. After I abandoned Christianity I was a generic god follower for many years and some atheists were kind enough to open my eyes and help me evolve all the way to where I no longer believe superstitious fairytales.

And since you don't believe in hell, I really don't have a beef with you. You generic theists are harmless. You all admit you believe for no other reason than you want to believe or you can't believe any other way. Now that is faith.

You're getting hysterical. I gave reasons why I believe in a creator god, I can't understand it for you. I can't prove it so I recognize it's a statement of faith. You, however, can't prove a secular cause and refuse to acknowledge that it too is a statement of faith. You're the hypocrite, not me.

The term agnostic-atheist is a contradiction. If you don't know then you are acknowledging the possibility, which means that you are not an atheist. Trying to massage the English language to get the atheist word in there is pointless and lame.

No one can be a true atheist though.

Lots of evidence tells me your fairy tale is made up. I'm using science and logic to come to the conclusion that your god(s) are made up. You are using the same logic and reasoning our ancient ancestors used. Or you are using ancient books and you believe them to be factual stories just like the Muslims think their books are real, or the Mormons, or whoever else.

 

[sealybobo]

No one can be a true theist either if no one can be a true atheist because you would have to have met god to know there is one. Otherwise you are relying on hearsay and we all know that can't even be used in court.

 

[Iceweasel]

Well if anyone is going to figure it out its gonna be science.

Mass Can Be Created Inside Graphene Say Physicists MIT Technology Review

Yes, mass can be created. From energy.

I think of god as the energy source and all of matter is a manifestation of what he/she/it created/thought/whatever.

 

[Iceweasel]

No one can be a true atheist though.

Lots of evidence tells me your fairy tale is made up. I'm using science and logic to come to the conclusion that your god(s) are made up. You are using the same logic and reasoning our ancient ancestors used. Or you are using ancient books and you believe them to be factual stories just like the Muslims think their books are real, or the Mormons, or whoever else.

What fairly tale do I have? Science doesn't have all the answers and doesn't claim to. Show me secular evidence of a first cause and I'm on board.

 

[sealybobo]

Well if anyone is going to figure it out its gonna be science.

Mass Can Be Created Inside Graphene Say Physicists MIT Technology Review

Yes, mass can be created. From energy.

I think of god as the energy source and all of matter is a manifestation of what he/she/it created/thought/whatever.

1. God is the universe/love/laws of physics/energy source.
   We already have names for these things. Redefining something as ‘god’ tells us nothing. To use the word ‘god’ implies a host of other attributes and if you don’t intend to apply those attributes, using the word is misleading.
   
   “To call the world God is not to explain it; it is only to enrich our language with a superfluous synonym for the word ‘world’.” – Arthur Schopenhauer

Why there is no god

Number 17.

 

[Iceweasel]

1. God is the universe/love/laws of physics/energy source.
   We already have names for these things. Redefining something as ‘god’ tells us nothing. To use the word ‘god’ implies a host of other attributes and if you don’t intend to apply those attributes, using the word is misleading.
   
   “To call the world God is not to explain it; it is only to enrich our language with a superfluous synonym for the word ‘world’.” – Arthur Schopenhauer

Why there is no god

Number 17.

Love? I didn't say anything about it. You don't know where energy comes from, there is no "re-definition". PLUS you are the one that needs to find someone else's thoughts to cling to. Let's not let that slide by.