Pentagon Having Second Thoughts On Iraq Withdrawal

[Caroljo]

Well those countries have asked us to stay, the Iraqis hate us and want us to get the fuck out.

Not all of them...my son's been there 3 times, and he said many of the citizens were very helpful, wanted to know how to join the american army, the kids were always around wanting them to play, women would bring them food on guard duty. Many Iraqi's worked right on the bases with them. He just felt very sorry for them...with all the extremists in the area, he never knew if he's see someone again - the good ones are the ones that get blown up. It's very hard to see your 26 yr old son crying over what he saw over there, out of frustration of not being able to do enough to help.

Please extend our gratitude to your son for his service, sincerely hope he comes home soon and safe.

Look, I don't like being in Iraq any more than the next guy, but what'll happen if we leave before they're ready to defend themselves? You think Iran wouldn't take over by any means necessary? We gave those people a shot at liberty and democracy, and we paid a heavy price to do it. Maybe they won't make it anyway, but in view of the situation across the entire middle east, it's a good thing to have an example of a democracy right in the middle of the muddle. I'm guessing there are a lot of young people over there in the entire muslim world that want what Iraq's got. Let's hope the sacrifices we made were worth it.

I will and thank YOU! But he's not over there right now...he's in training with Special Forces in NC - will graduate in Feb (I think!)...then hard telling where he'll be!!! I thank God all the time that he has a wonderful wife and he'll never have to worry about her or the kids when he's away!!

Oh...and we're from Michigan and my son is a die-hard Lions fan!!! So he'd love you're avatar, he has a few of those too!

 

[JBeukema]

$$$$$$$$$$$​

 

[High_Gravity]

Why do we have to with draw completely from Iraq? makes no sense to me, we are still in friken Europe, Korea, Japan. We should keep a base there as a deterrent for the Iranians.

Well those countries have asked us to stay, the Iraqis hate us and want us to get the fuck out.

Not all of them...my son's been there 3 times, and he said many of the citizens were very helpful, wanted to know how to join the american army, the kids were always around wanting them to play, women would bring them food on guard duty. Many Iraqi's worked right on the bases with them. He just felt very sorry for them...with all the extremists in the area, he never knew if he's see someone again - the good ones are the ones that get blown up. It's very hard to see your 26 yr old son crying over what he saw over there, out of frustration of not being able to do enough to help.

I appreciate your post and I applaude your son for his service, and yes there are Iraqis that like the US and want Americans there, however there is a great deal of Iraqis that despise us and want us gone, like Moqtada Al Sadr and his followers. Americans are just not safe in Iraq, if me or you went walking down the streets in downtown Baghdad or Tikrit with no security we would be fucking dead or kidnapped, the only safe place in Iraq for Americans is Kurdistan in the North, thats it.

 

[High_Gravity]

Well those countries have asked us to stay, the Iraqis hate us and want us to get the fuck out.

Not all of them...my son's been there 3 times, and he said many of the citizens were very helpful, wanted to know how to join the american army, the kids were always around wanting them to play, women would bring them food on guard duty. Many Iraqi's worked right on the bases with them. He just felt very sorry for them...with all the extremists in the area, he never knew if he's see someone again - the good ones are the ones that get blown up. It's very hard to see your 26 yr old son crying over what he saw over there, out of frustration of not being able to do enough to help.

Please extend our gratitude to your son for his service, sincerely hope he comes home soon and safe.

Look, I don't like being in Iraq any more than the next guy, but what'll happen if we leave before they're ready to defend themselves? You think Iran wouldn't take over by any means necessary? We gave those people a shot at liberty and democracy, and we paid a heavy price to do it. Maybe they won't make it anyway, but in view of the situation across the entire middle east, it's a good thing to have an example of a democracy right in the middle of the muddle. I'm guessing there are a lot of young people over there in the entire muslim world that want what Iraq's got. Let's hope the sacrifices we made were worth it.

Your post makes alot of sense and I agree with you however how long should we stay? we have already been in Iraq 8 years and have spent billions of dollars, I personally think the situation in Iraq is as good as it is going to get, I don't know how much better we can make things over there, at this point right now it is on the Iraqis to decide what they want for their country, to be Irans bitch, turn back into a Saddam like dictatorship or actually try to become a democracy.

 

[Wiseacre]

Not all of them...my son's been there 3 times, and he said many of the citizens were very helpful, wanted to know how to join the american army, the kids were always around wanting them to play, women would bring them food on guard duty. Many Iraqi's worked right on the bases with them. He just felt very sorry for them...with all the extremists in the area, he never knew if he's see someone again - the good ones are the ones that get blown up. It's very hard to see your 26 yr old son crying over what he saw over there, out of frustration of not being able to do enough to help.

Please extend our gratitude to your son for his service, sincerely hope he comes home soon and safe.

Look, I don't like being in Iraq any more than the next guy, but what'll happen if we leave before they're ready to defend themselves? You think Iran wouldn't take over by any means necessary? We gave those people a shot at liberty and democracy, and we paid a heavy price to do it. Maybe they won't make it anyway, but in view of the situation across the entire middle east, it's a good thing to have an example of a democracy right in the middle of the muddle. I'm guessing there are a lot of young people over there in the entire muslim world that want what Iraq's got. Let's hope the sacrifices we made were worth it.

Your post makes alot of sense and I agree with you however how long should we stay? we have already been in Iraq 8 years and have spent billions of dollars, I personally think the situation in Iraq is as good as it is going to get, I don't know how much better we can make things over there, at this point right now it is on the Iraqis to decide what they want for their country, to be Irans bitch, turn back into a Saddam like dictatorship or actually try to become a democracy.

How long? Not very, IMHO. I think they're already asking us to go, so we should go. If it's my call, we're gone by the end of this year. Same with Afghanistan, everybody comes home. Sooner or later they'll have to float their own boat, and besides, we ain't got the money any more. Not to mention the lives lost.

 

[High_Gravity]

Please extend our gratitude to your son for his service, sincerely hope he comes home soon and safe.

Look, I don't like being in Iraq any more than the next guy, but what'll happen if we leave before they're ready to defend themselves? You think Iran wouldn't take over by any means necessary? We gave those people a shot at liberty and democracy, and we paid a heavy price to do it. Maybe they won't make it anyway, but in view of the situation across the entire middle east, it's a good thing to have an example of a democracy right in the middle of the muddle. I'm guessing there are a lot of young people over there in the entire muslim world that want what Iraq's got. Let's hope the sacrifices we made were worth it.

Your post makes alot of sense and I agree with you however how long should we stay? we have already been in Iraq 8 years and have spent billions of dollars, I personally think the situation in Iraq is as good as it is going to get, I don't know how much better we can make things over there, at this point right now it is on the Iraqis to decide what they want for their country, to be Irans bitch, turn back into a Saddam like dictatorship or actually try to become a democracy.

How long? Not very, IMHO. I think they're already asking us to go, so we should go. If it's my call, we're gone by the end of this year. Same with Afghanistan, everybody comes home. Sooner or later they'll have to float their own boat, and besides, we ain't got the money any more. Not to mention the lives lost.

I agree 100%.

 

[Caroljo]

Well those countries have asked us to stay, the Iraqis hate us and want us to get the fuck out.

Not all of them...my son's been there 3 times, and he said many of the citizens were very helpful, wanted to know how to join the american army, the kids were always around wanting them to play, women would bring them food on guard duty. Many Iraqi's worked right on the bases with them. He just felt very sorry for them...with all the extremists in the area, he never knew if he's see someone again - the good ones are the ones that get blown up. It's very hard to see your 26 yr old son crying over what he saw over there, out of frustration of not being able to do enough to help.

I appreciate your post and I applaude your son for his service, and yes there are Iraqis that like the US and want Americans there, however there is a great deal of Iraqis that despise us and want us gone, like Moqtada Al Sadr and his followers. Americans are just not safe in Iraq, if me or you went walking down the streets in downtown Baghdad or Tikrit with no security we would be fucking dead or kidnapped, the only safe place in Iraq for Americans is Kurdistan in the North, thats it.

Thank you, and i totally agree. One deployment sent my son for a year in Baghdad...I WAS A BASKET CASE FOR THAT WHOLE YEAR! He told me that once on a patrol they took a wrong turn and went into Sadr City...NOBODY goes into that area. He said he'd never seen those vehicles go so fast to get out of a place! Lol! His camp was always being mortered..every day. He was with the 101st Airborne then...and Thank God, they all came home safe!

 

[Douger]

murkinz.
Is anyone on this board even remotely convinced there was EVER any plan for leaving Iraq ?
Once the empire conquers it stays FOREVER.
Can You Say 'Permanent Bases' ? [in Iraq] by Tom Engelhardt

 

[High_Gravity]

Not all of them...my son's been there 3 times, and he said many of the citizens were very helpful, wanted to know how to join the american army, the kids were always around wanting them to play, women would bring them food on guard duty. Many Iraqi's worked right on the bases with them. He just felt very sorry for them...with all the extremists in the area, he never knew if he's see someone again - the good ones are the ones that get blown up. It's very hard to see your 26 yr old son crying over what he saw over there, out of frustration of not being able to do enough to help.

I appreciate your post and I applaude your son for his service, and yes there are Iraqis that like the US and want Americans there, however there is a great deal of Iraqis that despise us and want us gone, like Moqtada Al Sadr and his followers. Americans are just not safe in Iraq, if me or you went walking down the streets in downtown Baghdad or Tikrit with no security we would be fucking dead or kidnapped, the only safe place in Iraq for Americans is Kurdistan in the North, thats it.

Thank you, and i totally agree. One deployment sent my son for a year in Baghdad...I WAS A BASKET CASE FOR THAT WHOLE YEAR! He told me that once on a patrol they took a wrong turn and went into Sadr City...NOBODY goes into that area. He said he'd never seen those vehicles go so fast to get out of a place! Lol! His camp was always being mortered..every day. He was with the 101st Airborne then...and Thank God, they all came home safe!

Yes and this is exactly what I am talking about, it is not safe for Americans in Iraq even protected US Soldiers. The only part of Iraq where you won't get killed or kidnapped on site in Iraq is Kurdistan, they actually like Americans up there.

 

[Jos]

Not all of them...my son's been there 3 times, and he said many of the citizens were very helpful, wanted to know how to join the american army, the kids were always around wanting them to play, women would bring them food on guard duty. Many Iraqi's worked right on the bases with them. He just felt very sorry for them...with all the extremists in the area, he never knew if he's see someone again - the good ones are the ones that get blown up. It's very hard to see your 26 yr old son crying over what he saw over there, out of frustration of not being able to do enough to help.

I appreciate your post and I applaude your son for his service, and yes there are Iraqis that like the US and want Americans there, however there is a great deal of Iraqis that despise us and want us gone, like Moqtada Al Sadr and his followers. Americans are just not safe in Iraq, if me or you went walking down the streets in downtown Baghdad or Tikrit with no security we would be fucking dead or kidnapped, the only safe place in Iraq for Americans is Kurdistan in the North, thats it.

Thank you, and i totally agree. One deployment sent my son for a year in Baghdad...I WAS A BASKET CASE FOR THAT WHOLE YEAR! He told me that once on a patrol they took a wrong turn and went into Sadr City...NOBODY goes into that area. He said he'd never seen those vehicles go so fast to get out of a place! Lol! His camp was always being mortered..every day. He was with the 101st Airborne then...and Thank God, they all came home safe!

People told me the same thing when I told them I'd driven thru Liberty city, Florida

 

[California Girl]

Why do we have to with draw completely from Iraq? makes no sense to me, we are still in friken Europe, Korea, Japan. We should keep a base there as a deterrent for the Iranians.

Well those countries have asked us to stay, the Iraqis hate us and want us to get the fuck out.

Actually, they don't 'hate us'. Most ordinary Iraqis like the US. Of course, they want their country back... a stable, solid country with a future. We should do what is necessary to ensure they have that. If it means leaving troops there longer, then that is what we should do. Personally, I would prefer that than to see the country go to hell in a handbasket after we leave.

 

[High_Gravity]

Why do we have to with draw completely from Iraq? makes no sense to me, we are still in friken Europe, Korea, Japan. We should keep a base there as a deterrent for the Iranians.

Well those countries have asked us to stay, the Iraqis hate us and want us to get the fuck out.

Actually, they don't 'hate us'. Most ordinary Iraqis like the US. Of course, they want their country back... a stable, solid country with a future. We should do what is necessary to ensure they have that. If it means leaving troops there longer, then that is what we should do. Personally, I would prefer that than to see the country go to hell in a handbasket after we leave.

Troops probably need to be there for security reasons but I don't even know if we can afford it, it costs billions to keep the troops in Iraq and from what I understand they are reviewing the war in Afghanistan and the price is the whats being evaulated first, I think its setting in at the top that we really can't afford to be in Iraq or Afghanistan for too much longer at least at this volume.

 

[California Girl]

Well those countries have asked us to stay, the Iraqis hate us and want us to get the fuck out.

Actually, they don't 'hate us'. Most ordinary Iraqis like the US. Of course, they want their country back... a stable, solid country with a future. We should do what is necessary to ensure they have that. If it means leaving troops there longer, then that is what we should do. Personally, I would prefer that than to see the country go to hell in a handbasket after we leave.

Troops probably need to be there for security reasons but I don't even know if we can afford it, it costs billions to keep the troops in Iraq and from what I understand they are reviewing the war in Afghanistan and the price is the whats being evaulated first, I think its setting in at the top that we really can't afford to be in Iraq or Afghanistan for too much longer at least at this volume.

Sometimes, you have to look at the picture from another angle, HG. Rather than asking 'can we afford to leave them there?' perhaps the question should be 'can we afford to leave?' I would prefer we not leave and have the country disintegrate to the point that we have to go back again in a few years. The question is 'can we afford to risk walking away before we have secured the place'.

 

[High_Gravity]

Actually, they don't 'hate us'. Most ordinary Iraqis like the US. Of course, they want their country back... a stable, solid country with a future. We should do what is necessary to ensure they have that. If it means leaving troops there longer, then that is what we should do. Personally, I would prefer that than to see the country go to hell in a handbasket after we leave.

Troops probably need to be there for security reasons but I don't even know if we can afford it, it costs billions to keep the troops in Iraq and from what I understand they are reviewing the war in Afghanistan and the price is the whats being evaulated first, I think its setting in at the top that we really can't afford to be in Iraq or Afghanistan for too much longer at least at this volume.

Sometimes, you have to look at the picture from another angle, HG. Rather than asking 'can we afford to leave them there?' perhaps the question should be 'can we afford to leave?' I would prefer we not leave and have the country disintegrate to the point that we have to go back again in a few years. The question is 'can we afford to risk walking away before we have secured the place'.

Those are very good questions you have asked, to be honest I think the situation on the ground in Iraq is probably as good as its going to get as far as our Troops go, we finally got the Iraqis to stop massacring themselves in large numbers and our troop Casualties are way down there (of course due to a reduced presence) Iraqi Troops and Police have taken over security in most parts of the country, I don't know how much better we can make it because the Iraqi Police and Military will never be up to the same standards of our Troops and Police. If the Iraqis want us to stay beyond this year we really need to sit down and discuss what our goals are there.

 

[Wiseacre]

Troops probably need to be there for security reasons but I don't even know if we can afford it, it costs billions to keep the troops in Iraq and from what I understand they are reviewing the war in Afghanistan and the price is the whats being evaulated first, I think its setting in at the top that we really can't afford to be in Iraq or Afghanistan for too much longer at least at this volume.

Sometimes, you have to look at the picture from another angle, HG. Rather than asking 'can we afford to leave them there?' perhaps the question should be 'can we afford to leave?' I would prefer we not leave and have the country disintegrate to the point that we have to go back again in a few years. The question is 'can we afford to risk walking away before we have secured the place'.

Those are very good questions you have asked, to be honest I think the situation on the ground in Iraq is probably as good as its going to get as far as our Troops go, we finally got the Iraqis to stop massacring themselves in large numbers and our troop Casualties are way down there (of course due to a reduced presence) Iraqi Troops and Police have taken over security in most parts of the country, I don't know how much better we can make it because the Iraqi Police and Military will never be up to the same standards of our Troops and Police. If the Iraqis want us to stay beyond this year we really need to sit down and discuss what our goals are there.

Nice discussion, does anyone have nay numbvers for what it cost us to be in Iraq in 2010? I assume less than 2009 and earlier but have no numbers.

 

[High_Gravity]

Sometimes, you have to look at the picture from another angle, HG. Rather than asking 'can we afford to leave them there?' perhaps the question should be 'can we afford to leave?' I would prefer we not leave and have the country disintegrate to the point that we have to go back again in a few years. The question is 'can we afford to risk walking away before we have secured the place'.

Those are very good questions you have asked, to be honest I think the situation on the ground in Iraq is probably as good as its going to get as far as our Troops go, we finally got the Iraqis to stop massacring themselves in large numbers and our troop Casualties are way down there (of course due to a reduced presence) Iraqi Troops and Police have taken over security in most parts of the country, I don't know how much better we can make it because the Iraqi Police and Military will never be up to the same standards of our Troops and Police. If the Iraqis want us to stay beyond this year we really need to sit down and discuss what our goals are there.

Nice discussion, does anyone have nay numbvers for what it cost us to be in Iraq in 2010? I assume less than 2009 and earlier but have no numbers.

I am not sure but we have less bases and less troops so I assuming the cost will be less however we are still paying to train the Iraqi Military and equip them, so who knows?

 

[JimH52]

We need someone who can be this I guess

YouTube - decider

"i'm the decider"

Yeah, that turned out really well, didn't it?

 

[JimH52]

George W Bush made the day of the iranian leaders when he invaded Iraq. He played right into the hands of the Shiite nation. Being a recovering alcoholic, it was difficult for him to see beyond the end of his term. The Shiite-Sunni war goes back over 1400 years. His war strengthened the hand of Iran. He actually hurt the Saudi Sunnis, who of course, had given him a huge loan to buy a baseball team. We will see that the Iraq war emboldened Iran to develop the bomb, not to destroy Israel. They are aiming to destroy the Sunni nation of Saudi Arabia and gain control of all the oil coming from the middle east. W's short sightedness may cost you $20 a gallon of gas in the next few years.

WoJ - The coming Shiite-Sunni War in Iraq

 

[Synthaholic]

Pentagon Having Second Thoughts On Iraq Withdrawal

WASHINGTON — Eight months shy of its deadline for pulling the last American soldier from Iraq and closing the door on an 8-year war, the Pentagon is having second thoughts.

Reluctant to say it publicly, officials fear a final pullout in December could create a security vacuum, offering an opportunity for power grabs by antagonists in an unresolved and simmering Arab-Kurd dispute, a weakened but still active al-Qaida or even an adventurous neighbor such as Iran.

The U.S. wants to keep perhaps several thousand troops in Iraq, not to engage in combat but to guard against an unraveling of a still-fragile peace. This was made clear during Defense Secretary Robert Gates' visit Thursday and Friday in which he and the top U.S. commander in Iraq talked up the prospect of an extended U.S. stay.

How big a military commitment might the U.S. be willing to make beyond 2011? "It just depends on what the Iraqis want and what we're able to provide and afford," Gates said Thursday at a U.S. base in the northern city of Mosul where U.S. soldiers advise and mentor Iraqi forces. He said the U.S. would consider a range of possibilities, from staying an extra couple of years to remaining in Iraq as permanent partners.

Less clear is whether the Iraqis will ask for any extension.

Powerful political winds are blowing against such a move even as U.S. officials assert that Iraqi leaders – Sunni, Shiite and Kurd – are saying privately they see a need for help developing their air defenses and other military capabilities. U.S. training of Iraqi forces up to now has focused on combating an internal enemy, including al-Qaida, rather than external threats.

If the Iraqis choose not to ask for more help, then Dec. 31 probably will mark the end of U.S. military intervention that was so close to failing when Gates became Pentagon chief in December 2006. He once said the U.S. faced the prospect of a "strategic disaster" at the heart of the Middle East.

Meghan O'Sullivan, a top adviser on Iraq to President George W. Bush when his administration negotiated the 2008 security agreement that set upcoming deadline for a final U.S. military withdrawal, said time is too short to negotiate a full reworking of that legal pact.

"The question is, can both sides agree on something more modest but which still provides an adequate legal basis for a smaller number of American troops to stay in Iraq, with quite defined missions?" she said in an email exchange last week. O'Sullivan is a professor of international affairs at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School.

Pentagon Having Second Thoughts On Iraq Withdrawal

Just one more thing the teleprompter user is gonna have to explain away during the '12 campaign.

One thing is for sure, that boys got some serious 'splainin' to do!

I thought that the situation on the ground determined policy? Or is that only when the NeoCons are running things?

 

[waltky]

Iranian militias gettin' bolder as U.S troop withdrawal nears...

US military officials in Iraq warn of growing Iranian threat
July 27, 2011 : American military officials say the upcoming US withdrawal has emboldened Iranian-backed militias, which they blame for recent deadly attacks and allege are stockpiling weapons.

As the clock ticks toward full US military withdrawal from Iraq, American officials who want troops to stay longer continue to warn of a growing Iranian threat. Some argue that the diminishing US presence is turning Iraq into an even-more contentious regional battlefield, giving rise to a low-grade war between the remaining American forces and what the US says are militias tied directly to Iran’s Revolutionary Guard.

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, whose rule is dependent on Iraqi parties with ties to Iran, appears unable or unwilling to crack down on the most lethal Iranian-back militias, blamed for June attacks that killed the largest number of American forces in two years. While military officials say Iraqi security forces have continued to fight Shiite militias linked to Iran, the US is increasingly conducting attacks alone – attacks authorized for self-defense under the status of forces agreement between Washington and Baghdad that expires this year.

“We always want to work with the Iraqi security forces … but we’re not going to sit back and get shot at and can’t defend ourselves. So if we can’t have the help or don’t have the help then we will in fact act to defend ourselves,” says US military spokesman Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan. For example, says General Buchanan, US Apache helicopters fired on Iraqis shooting rockets at the US base at the Basra airport last month.

“They engaged and killed them – that was an act of self defense. It would have been far better for all had the Iraqi Army been able to prevent the attack or respond to it and stop it in action but things like that happen... what we’re not going to do is sit back and watch them shoot at us and wait for the Iraqi army to show up,” he says.

15 American fatalities in June

See also:

Sadr followers send message to US: Don't try to stay
May 27, 2011 - US troops are scheduled to leave Iraq by Dec. 31, but Prime MInister Maliki said he is considering seeking an agreement that would allow them to stay longer.

Tens of thousands of followers of anti-American cleric Muqtada al Sadr staged a military-style parade Thursday in Baghdad to demand that US troops leave the country as scheduled by Dec. 31, a show of force intended to intimidate Iraqi officials who favor asking that some American troops stay on. Dressed in T-shirts emblazoned with Iraqi flags, the men marched in groups of 100, swinging their arms in a military fashion as they passed a reviewing stand filled with Shiite clerics in the impoverished Shiite Sadr City section of Baghdad, named after Sadr's father.

"No, no, America. No, no, Israel," they chanted. To set the tempo, they punctuated their march by calling out "Mahdi," a reference to the disbanded Mahdi Army militia, in what sounded like a warning that it could be reconstituted if US forces remain after year's end. Sadr is the first major political leader to stage a public demonstration in what's expected to be a heated national debate during the next two months over the American troop presence. Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki said earlier this month that he'd decide by the end of July whether to seek a new agreement that would let US troops stay longer.

In a speech Tuesday in Washington, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he favored extending the American presence, noting that the Iraqi military will need help with logistics, intelligence and defending its airspace and that a continued US military presence will send a "powerful signal that we're not leaving, that we will continue to play a part."

"All I can say is, from the standpoint of Iraq's future but also our role in the region, I hope they figure out a way to ask," Gates said. The Sadr march, which lasted more than four hours, was interrupted about every 20 minutes by staged burnings of US and Israeli flags. "We reject on principle the presence of foreign troops on Iraqi soil, and therefore we reject the idea of extending the American presence," Hakim al Zamili, a member of Sadr's bloc in parliament, told McClatchy.

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