Paying my neighbors bills.

[Vision]

I am the author of the article linked by PoliticalChick

PolitcalChick is quite right.

Hagel, Sunnunu, Elizabeth Dole and later Mccain pushed legislation to reform Fannie, Freddie and mortgage policing to bring them in line with the policing and standards for other banking products. They pushed this year after year. It was always a party line vote in the Senate Committee. The Democrats were fillibustering most legislation at that time and the made it clear that any attempt to pass the reforms the OFHEO regulator was asking for since 2001 would be fillibustered. This is why the Senate never had a floor vote and only had the committee vote. There was no point.

There were many layers to the mortgate crisis, the CRA was one such layer, but ceased to be a factor later because when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac decided that it would buy these high risk (bad) loans. Thats right, the banks could make money just by giving loans to just anyone and selling the loans to Fannie/Freddie.

The mortgage crisis was a perfect storm of corruption, good intentions and trying to legislatively change the rules of economics for political reasons. There are MANY layers that contributed to the problem, the largest layer being the circle of corruption between Congress and Wall Street.

well, if it was the article I read, you left out a lot....that makes the picture clearer...

Hi care4all (great name by the way) that article was just one part of a many part series on the subject. So yes by itself it was just designed to get you to the point where you have enough info and context to move on the the rest of the articles.

If you look at the site on the lower left hand border is a link called "mortgage crisis" all of the articles that be found there. keep in mind that I was writing this as it all unfolded and as informatrion came out, so theya re not perfect, but they are styill a great source of info.

Eventually I think I will write a book on the subject. Recently I have uncovered another layer of the mortgage crisis that I was not fully aware of and have not written about yet.

I have recently learned that the fundemental political nature of the Federal Reserve System itself . In short, keeping interest rates artificially low for extended periods of time causes market bubbles to go longer and crash worse. Frederick Hayak who won the Nobel Prize for economics figured that out. While that by itself did not create the issue, it certainly amplified it and made it worse.

 

[DiveCon]

Report: Mortgage firm arranged stealth campaign - USATODAY.com

Report: Mortgage firm arranged stealth campaign

WASHINGTON (AP) — Freddie Mac secretly paid a Republican consulting firm $2 million to kill legislation that would have regulated and trimmed the mortgage finance giant and its sister company, Fannie Mae, three years before the government took control to prevent their collapse.
In the cross hairs of the campaign carried out by DCI of Washington were Republican senators and a regulatory overhaul bill sponsored by Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. DCI's chief executive is Doug Goodyear, whom John McCain's campaign later hired to manage the GOP convention in September.

Freddie Mac's payments to DCI began shortly after the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee sent Hagel's bill to the then GOP-run Senate on July 28, 2005. All GOP members of the committee supported it; all Democrats opposed it.

In the midst of DCI's year-long effort, Hagel and 25 other Republican senators pleaded unsuccessfully with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., to allow a vote.

i guess you would have to know the reason the vote wasnt allowed before you can come to that conclusion

 

[Vision]

Report: Mortgage firm arranged stealth campaign

WASHINGTON (AP) — Freddie Mac secretly paid a Republican consulting firm $2 million to kill legislation that would have regulated and trimmed the mortgage finance giant and its sister company, Fannie Mae, three years before the government took control to prevent their collapse.
In the cross hairs of the campaign carried out by DCI of Washington were Republican senators and a regulatory overhaul bill sponsored by Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. DCI's chief executive is Doug Goodyear, whom John McCain's campaign later hired to manage the GOP convention in September.

Freddie Mac's payments to DCI began shortly after the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee sent Hagel's bill to the then GOP-run Senate on July 28, 2005. All GOP members of the committee supported it; all Democrats opposed it.

In the midst of DCI's year-long effort, Hagel and 25 other Republican senators pleaded unsuccessfully with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., to allow a vote.

Oh no one said that this wasn't a bipartisan scandal, it just so happens that with this one most of the people in Congress taking large sums from these people were about 3/4 Democrats. Freddie and Fannie bought up almost all the lobby firms in DC to help them get their way. I linked these donations on the web site and explained how the money was put all over to keep the status quo.

But for the sake of argument even if it was a 100% Democrat scandal, it would not have mattered what Frist did, Democrats made it clear they would vote no, so no 60 votes means no passage.

 

[Vision]

Report: Mortgage firm arranged stealth campaign

WASHINGTON (AP) — Freddie Mac secretly paid a Republican consulting firm $2 million to kill legislation that would have regulated and trimmed the mortgage finance giant and its sister company, Fannie Mae, three years before the government took control to prevent their collapse.
In the cross hairs of the campaign carried out by DCI of Washington were Republican senators and a regulatory overhaul bill sponsored by Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. DCI's chief executive is Doug Goodyear, whom John McCain's campaign later hired to manage the GOP convention in September.

Freddie Mac's payments to DCI began shortly after the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee sent Hagel's bill to the then GOP-run Senate on July 28, 2005. All GOP members of the committee supported it; all Democrats opposed it.

But no one in Congress can claim ignorance, no one, the regulator OFHEO was screaming to Congress for themselves to be fired and replaced with real banking regulators and said this was coming till at least 2002 and Bush's administration people did give testimony to congress from 2001 asking for these changes.

What Bush should have done is made a speech to the nation and went to town, but hind sight is 20/20 isnt it.

In the midst of DCI's year-long effort, Hagel and 25 other Republican senators pleaded unsuccessfully with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., to allow a vote.

Oh no one said that this wasn't a bipartisan scandal, it just so happens that with this one most of the people in Congress taking large sums from these people were about 3/4 Democrats. Freddie and Fannie bought up almost all the lobby firms in DC to help them get their way. I linked these donations on the web site and explained how the money was put all over to keep the status quo.

But for the sake of argument even if it was a 100% Democrat scandal, it would not have mattered what Frist did, Democrats made it clear they would vote no, so no 60 votes means no passage.

However, the idea that the mortage crisis was Bush's fault as Obama said in the campaign is a bit silly in light of the facts. Obama took the second highest amount of money from these people in the Congress.

 

[WillowTree]

Oh no one said that this wasn't a bipartisan scandal, it just so happens that with this one most of the people in Congress taking large sums from these people were about 3/4 Democrats. Freddie and Fannie bought up almost all the lobby firms in DC to help them get their way. I linked these donations on the web site and explained how the money was put all over to keep the status quo.

But for the sake of argument even if it was a 100% Democrat scandal, it would not have mattered what Frist did, Democrats made it clear they would vote no, so no 60 votes means no passage.

However, the idea that the mortage crisis was Bush's fault as Obama said in the campaign is a bit silly in light of the facts. Obama took the second highest amount of money from these people in the Congress.

We have to keep life on simple terms for librals,,,,,,therefore everything is Bush's fault. got it?

 

[Vision]

One more thing, no one in Congress can claim ignorance no matter what party they are in.

OFHEO was screaming to Congress to replace them with a real bank regulator egency with teeth since 2002. You saw the youtube video of the hearings when the Democrats attacked the man testifying for OFHEO.

Also to Bush's credit, his administration members did testify about 20 times to the Congress since 2001 for these same changes. What Bush should have done is make a speech to the nation and call people out, but hey hind sight is 20/20 isnt it.

My congressman is on the committee that is over Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.....how depressing is that?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Oh no one said that this wasn't a bipartisan scandal, it just so happens that with this one most of the people in Congress taking large sums from these people were about 3/4 Democrats. Freddie and Fannie bought up almost all the lobby firms in DC to help them get their way. I linked these donations on the web site and explained how the money was put all over to keep the status quo.

But for the sake of argument even if it was a 100% Democrat scandal, it would not have mattered what Frist did, Democrats made it clear they would vote no, so no 60 votes means no passage.

I appreciate a useful and informative series of posts. Hope to hear more of the same.

Although I suppose that the financial aspects of the crisis should be foremost, I must tell all that it is the philosophical aspects that interest me most.

I am most interested in the vast differences that paint Liberals and Conservatives, and how they result in the world around us. On this board, due to the predominance of Dems, domestic policy is of most interest, and rarely do we find popular threads about foreign policy.

Yet here is a crisis both domestic and international, so understanding the provenance is critical.

Let me throw one more bomb:

The world would not be in such a snarl
Had Marx been Groucho instead of Karl
Irving Berlin.

 

[Vision]

Oh no one said that this wasn't a bipartisan scandal, it just so happens that with this one most of the people in Congress taking large sums from these people were about 3/4 Democrats. Freddie and Fannie bought up almost all the lobby firms in DC to help them get their way. I linked these donations on the web site and explained how the money was put all over to keep the status quo.

But for the sake of argument even if it was a 100% Democrat scandal, it would not have mattered what Frist did, Democrats made it clear they would vote no, so no 60 votes means no passage.

However, the idea that the mortage crisis was Bush's fault as Obama said in the campaign is a bit silly in light of the facts. Obama took the second highest amount of money from these people in the Congress.

We have to keep life on simple terms for librals,,,,,,therefore everything is Bush's fault. got it?

Well for the moonbats that is true, but the reality is that many people who often vote Democrat, will vote Republican when the GOP is doing the right thing and after 2003 most Republicans in Congress bacame a part of the problem they were sent there to fix.... but Democrats were spending too much gleefully right along with the Republicans the voters threw out of office and now instead of the change that they promised, they are taking what went wrong in the last 8 years, doing it again, and putting in on steroids.....

....and the voters are going to make them pay dearly for it.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I am 20 years old. Just starting my life out. I live within my means, and i don't purchase things ie. cars, HOUSES, boats, etc. etc. that I can't afford. And to hear about all these houses being forclosed because people decided to bite off more than they can chew, well call me a Redneck Republican, but its not my job to pay there bills. I would rather be considered a "Idiot Cowboy" who can pay his or her own bills rather than make millions of people pay them for me. I dont care that there trying to help people from there houses being forclosed, the point is, they should have spent a little more time going over there income, and making sure they could afford what they were doing. Instead they were worried about living in a classy more expensive neighborhood to look good. My parents spent 20 years of there life serving this country to then retire and now work for the government. Now at the age of 45, 48 after YEARS AND YEARS of hard work, they just bought there dream house. They waited this long, knowing that if they would have done it any earlier they couldnt have afforded it. My point is I dont want to, and shouldnt have to pay my neighbors bills. Its not my job, nor do I owe it to anyone.

Since you're so smart why don't you go work for a non-depository bank institution like a Fannie or a Freddie and explain to them why they shouldn't be buying up mortgages backed by homeowners living outside their means. I'm pretty sure that if banks don't issue loans to people who can't afford them - then people who can't afford them won't be able to get those loans. Is that not true?

 

[DiveCon]

One more thing, no one in Congress can claim ignorance no matter what party they are in.

OFHEO was screaming to Congress to replace them with a real bank regulator egency with teeth since 2002. You saw the youtube video of the hearings when the Democrats attacked the man testifying for OFHEO.

Also to Bush's credit, his administration members did testify about 20 times to the Congress since 2001 for these same changes. What Bush should have done is make a speech to the nation and call people out, but hey hind sight is 20/20 isnt it.

My congressman is on the committee that is over Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.....how depressing is that?

bush was too busy trying to get those morons to "like him"

 

[DiveCon]

However, the idea that the mortage crisis was Bush's fault as Obama said in the campaign is a bit silly in light of the facts. Obama took the second highest amount of money from these people in the Congress.

We have to keep life on simple terms for librals,,,,,,therefore everything is Bush's fault. got it?

Well for the moonbats that is true, but the reality is that many people who often vote Democrat, will vote Republican when the GOP is doing the right thing and after 2003 most Republicans in Congress bacame a part of the problem they were sent there to fix.... but Democrats were spending too much gleefully right along with the Republicans the voters threw out of office and now instead of the change that they promised, they are taking what went wrong in the last 8 years, doing it again, and putting in on steroids.....

....and the voters are going to make them pay dearly for it.

you are forgetting

Bush=bad
Obama=good

everything that was bad was Bush's fault
and Obama can only do good
doesnt matter if they are doing the exact same thing

 

[Vision]

One more thing, no one in Congress can claim ignorance no matter what party they are in.

OFHEO was screaming to Congress to replace them with a real bank regulator egency with teeth since 2002. You saw the youtube video of the hearings when the Democrats attacked the man testifying for OFHEO.

Also to Bush's credit, his administration members did testify about 20 times to the Congress since 2001 for these same changes. What Bush should have done is make a speech to the nation and call people out, but hey hind sight is 20/20 isnt it.

My congressman is on the committee that is over Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.....how depressing is that?

bush was too busy trying to get those morons to "like him"

True, but Bush was foolish. He should have realized that the Democrats and some of the elite media outlets were trying to destroy him and he should have treated them as such.

 

[DiveCon]

One more thing, no one in Congress can claim ignorance no matter what party they are in.

OFHEO was screaming to Congress to replace them with a real bank regulator egency with teeth since 2002. You saw the youtube video of the hearings when the Democrats attacked the man testifying for OFHEO.

Also to Bush's credit, his administration members did testify about 20 times to the Congress since 2001 for these same changes. What Bush should have done is make a speech to the nation and call people out, but hey hind sight is 20/20 isnt it.

My congressman is on the committee that is over Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.....how depressing is that?

bush was too busy trying to get those morons to "like him"

True, but Bush was foolish. He should have realized that the Democrats and some of the elite media outlets were trying to destroy him and he should have treated them as such.

yeah, but he was divisive, remember

the guy did everything but bend over backwards and kiss their ass, but he was being divisive

 

[Care4all]

Oh no one said that this wasn't a bipartisan scandal, it just so happens that with this one most of the people in Congress taking large sums from these people were about 3/4 Democrats. Freddie and Fannie bought up almost all the lobby firms in DC to help them get their way. I linked these donations on the web site and explained how the money was put all over to keep the status quo.

But for the sake of argument even if it was a 100% Democrat scandal, it would not have mattered what Frist did, Democrats made it clear they would vote no, so no 60 votes means no passage.

However, the idea that the mortage crisis was Bush's fault as Obama said in the campaign is a bit silly in light of the facts. Obama took the second highest amount of money from these people in the Congress.

i was a hillary supporter not an obama supporter, but i do not remember obama putting the blame of this huge financial crisis on president bush....though i am certain some of his supporters may have done such....

i wasn't paying that close of attention to obama, so maybe i missed such...?

yes, this is true on the dems taking alot in campaign donations from these dudes...

But what is ALSO true is that hagel's legislation, had nothing to do with the CRA.....the Community reinvestment act, or changing this legislation in any way, what so ever....it had to do with their debt to loan ratio over all.

i disagree that it would not have mattered if Frist had brought it up...there was only the committee members that voted against it....and unlike republicans of the past for the most part, democrats do not walk, lock step with eachother on the whole in congressional houses....hagel just needed a handful of dems to pick off to bring a fillibuster to cloture, and hagel is adored by many dems....it would not have been hard for him....

even if it had gone to filibuster, the attention brought to the public regarding it, would have been priceless imo!

and lastly, republicans were in bed as well with fannie/freddie....and their lobby money and campaign/party donations....they donated $250k to the republican convention and the republican head organizer of the convention was a person who worked for DCI, the freddie mac lobbying firm hired, to lobby those republicans against hagel's bill....

mccain found out and fired the guy thank goodness!

AP IMPACT: Mortgage firm arranged stealth campaign

 

[Care4all]

I am the author of the article linked by PoliticalChick

PolitcalChick is quite right.

Hagel, Sunnunu, Elizabeth Dole and later Mccain pushed legislation to reform Fannie, Freddie and mortgage policing to bring them in line with the policing and standards for other banking products. They pushed this year after year. It was always a party line vote in the Senate Committee. The Democrats were fillibustering most legislation at that time and the made it clear that any attempt to pass the reforms the OFHEO regulator was asking for since 2001 would be fillibustered. This is why the Senate never had a floor vote and only had the committee vote. There was no point.

There were many layers to the mortgate crisis, the CRA was one such layer, but ceased to be a factor later because when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac decided that it would buy these high risk (bad) loans. Thats right, the banks could make money just by giving loans to just anyone and selling the loans to Fannie/Freddie.

The mortgage crisis was a perfect storm of corruption, good intentions and trying to legislatively change the rules of economics for political reasons. There are MANY layers that contributed to the problem, the largest layer being the circle of corruption between Congress and Wall Street.

well, if it was the article I read, you left out a lot....that makes the picture clearer...

Hi care4all (great name by the way) that article was just one part of a many part series on the subject. So yes by itself it was just designed to get you to the point where you have enough info and context to move on the the rest of the articles.

If you look at the site on the lower left hand border is a link called "mortgage crisis" all of the articles that be found there. keep in mind that I was writing this as it all unfolded and as informatrion came out, so theya re not perfect, but they are styill a great source of info.

Eventually I think I will write a book on the subject. Recently I have uncovered another layer of the mortgage crisis that I was not fully aware of and have not written about yet.

I have recently learned that the fundemental political nature of the Federal Reserve System itself . In short, keeping interest rates artificially low for extended periods of time causes market bubbles to go longer and crash worse. Frederick Hayak who won the Nobel Prize for economics figured that out. While that by itself did not create the issue, it certainly amplified it and made it worse.

yes! your last paragraph is very true....there was alot of cheap money, to invest and fed policy is most certainly a catalyst....

but the banks, buying up those crazy loose as a goose mortgages from these fly by night financial companies issuing them was NOT DONE because of fannie and freddie and the CRA, it was done for pure greed, that made them STUPID...they masked the risks in MBS's...with the rating agencies that they paid, giving them AAA ratings....other countries and pension funds and even overseas local governments bought these toxic MBS's....

fannie and freddie did not buy any until VERY LATE IN THE GAME, so these banks did NOT do these risky loans because fannie would buy them....they had been gaming the system for 5 years before fannie bought its first one....

care

 

[DiveCon]

well, if it was the article I read, you left out a lot....that makes the picture clearer...

Hi care4all (great name by the way) that article was just one part of a many part series on the subject. So yes by itself it was just designed to get you to the point where you have enough info and context to move on the the rest of the articles.

If you look at the site on the lower left hand border is a link called "mortgage crisis" all of the articles that be found there. keep in mind that I was writing this as it all unfolded and as informatrion came out, so theya re not perfect, but they are styill a great source of info.

Eventually I think I will write a book on the subject. Recently I have uncovered another layer of the mortgage crisis that I was not fully aware of and have not written about yet.

I have recently learned that the fundemental political nature of the Federal Reserve System itself . In short, keeping interest rates artificially low for extended periods of time causes market bubbles to go longer and crash worse. Frederick Hayak who won the Nobel Prize for economics figured that out. While that by itself did not create the issue, it certainly amplified it and made it worse.

yes! your last paragraph is very true....there was alot of cheap money, to invest and fed policy is most certainly a catalyst....

but the banks, buying up those crazy loose as a goose mortgages from these fly by night financial companies issuing them was NOT DONE because of fannie and freddie and the CRA, it was done for pure greed, that made them STUPID...they masked the risks in MBS's...with the rating agencies that they paid, giving them AAA ratings....other countries and pension funds and even overseas local governments bought these toxic MBS's....

fannie and freddie did not buy any until VERY LATE IN THE GAME, so these banks did NOT do these risky loans because fannie would buy them....they had been gaming the system for 5 years before fannie bought its first one....

care

you keep excusing CRA, why is that?
do you think it didnt have an effect on loans that it wasnt used for?
if you have someone filing lawsuits using CRA, don't you think that effects how other banks will work
court costs are something most banks would try to avoid

 

[strollingbones]

do we not all pay for things for the common good? ie...i have no children in the school system...does that mean i can opt out of the property taxes collect for that? i do not use the senior citizen center nor many roads in this county but my taxes go for that.

 

[Care4all]

Hi care4all (great name by the way) that article was just one part of a many part series on the subject. So yes by itself it was just designed to get you to the point where you have enough info and context to move on the the rest of the articles.

If you look at the site on the lower left hand border is a link called "mortgage crisis" all of the articles that be found there. keep in mind that I was writing this as it all unfolded and as informatrion came out, so theya re not perfect, but they are styill a great source of info.

Eventually I think I will write a book on the subject. Recently I have uncovered another layer of the mortgage crisis that I was not fully aware of and have not written about yet.

I have recently learned that the fundemental political nature of the Federal Reserve System itself . In short, keeping interest rates artificially low for extended periods of time causes market bubbles to go longer and crash worse. Frederick Hayak who won the Nobel Prize for economics figured that out. While that by itself did not create the issue, it certainly amplified it and made it worse.

yes! your last paragraph is very true....there was alot of cheap money, to invest and fed policy is most certainly a catalyst....

but the banks, buying up those crazy loose as a goose mortgages from these fly by night financial companies issuing them was NOT DONE because of fannie and freddie and the CRA, it was done for pure greed, that made them STUPID...they masked the risks in MBS's...with the rating agencies that they paid, giving them AAA ratings....other countries and pension funds and even overseas local governments bought these toxic MBS's....

fannie and freddie did not buy any until VERY LATE IN THE GAME, so these banks did NOT do these risky loans because fannie would buy them....they had been gaming the system for 5 years before fannie bought its first one....

care

you keep excusing CRA, why is that?
do you think it didnt have an effect on loans that it wasnt used for?
if you have someone filing lawsuits using CRA, don't you think that effects how other banks will work
court costs are something most banks would try to avoid

Because, for over 30 years, the CRA has helped put people with lower incomes in to homes THEY COULD AFFORD and it has been a good "ownership society" doing, with good benefits to ghetto communities or lower end communities by having more people taking pride in their homes.

The CRA never authorized or forced any banks in to making any of these crazy ass, loose as a goose loans and to blame the CRA for such Dive, is simply deflecting from what ACTUALLY CAUSED this crisis....

and until we come to terms with where the mistakes were made, we will never be able to correct our problems with the system or make the stock market a secure place to invest again....leaving us with a never ending down turn....

It's not that i just don't want to blame the CRA, I would if they deserved the blame Dive...but I know that it does not deserve this blame....as you all want to give it....simple as that....

I have spent more than 60 hours of time reading up on all I can or watching documentaries like I did last night, called House of Cards on cnbc....to try to know as much as I can on what has happened to us all....



care

 

[DiveCon]

do we not all pay for things for the common good? ie...i have no children in the school system...does that mean i can opt out of the property taxes collect for that? i do not use the senior citizen center nor many roads in this county but my taxes go for that.

you may use it at some point in time
but you wont be using your neighbors house

 

[DiveCon]

yes! your last paragraph is very true....there was alot of cheap money, to invest and fed policy is most certainly a catalyst....

but the banks, buying up those crazy loose as a goose mortgages from these fly by night financial companies issuing them was NOT DONE because of fannie and freddie and the CRA, it was done for pure greed, that made them STUPID...they masked the risks in MBS's...with the rating agencies that they paid, giving them AAA ratings....other countries and pension funds and even overseas local governments bought these toxic MBS's....

fannie and freddie did not buy any until VERY LATE IN THE GAME, so these banks did NOT do these risky loans because fannie would buy them....they had been gaming the system for 5 years before fannie bought its first one....

care

you keep excusing CRA, why is that?
do you think it didnt have an effect on loans that it wasnt used for?
if you have someone filing lawsuits using CRA, don't you think that effects how other banks will work
court costs are something most banks would try to avoid

Because, for over 30 years, the CRA has helped put people with lower incomes in to homes THEY COULD AFFORD and it has been a good "ownership society" doing, with good benefits to ghetto communities or lower end communities by having more people taking pride in their homes.

The CRA never authorized or forced any banks in to making any of these crazy ass, loose as a goose loans and to blame the CRA for such Dive, is simply deflecting from what ACTUALLY CAUSED this crisis....

and until we come to terms with where the mistakes were made, we will never be able to correct our problems with the system or make the stock market a secure place to invest again....leaving us with a never ending down turn....

It's not that i just don't want to blame the CRA, I would if they deserved the blame Dive...but I know that it does not deserve this blame....as you all want to give it....simple as that....

I have spent more than 60 hours of time reading up on all I can or watching documentaries like I did last night, called House of Cards on cnbc....to try to know as much as I can on what has happened to us all....



care

you know the CRA changed in the mid 90's, right?


btw, i'm not just blaming CRA, there are a TON of other mitigating factors in this mess
and BOTH republicans and Democrats are resonsible for this mess