Patton's take on WWII

[CrusaderFrank]

For the most part Patton viewed the final disposition of Europe at the end of WWII as a huge strategic failure for the Allies (the US and Brits) because it left millions of acres of prime European real estate in the "hands of the descendants of Ghengis Khan" that is, the Rooskies.

He hated them with all his heart and soul because he knew they were evil, devious scumbags and history bears him out.

What you never learn from the movie "Patton", because Omar Bradley was an adviser on the movie, is that after the outbreak from Normandy, the Allies had a substantial portion of the German force in the west trapped in a pocket at Falaise. Bradley was Patton's superior and Patton urged that every effort be made to seal the pocket, annihilate the German forces and move with haste toward Berlin as the destruction of the German forces there would leave a huge vacuum.

Bradley ignored Patton and that night in his diary Patton noted that Bradley loss of nerve in his failure to take full advantage was one of the greatest turning points in history.

As we progressed East, the Russian progressed West. Patton wanted desperately to beat the Russian to Berlin, Prague and Vienna, but because FDR was taking advise from people who would later turn out to be genuine Communist spies, the Allies were held back so that the Russians could roll into these towns.

Even the Nazis would have gladly surrendered to the US rather than the Russians, but a deal's a deal and Uncle Joe wasn't such a bad guy once you get to know him.

The movie portrays Patton as a crazy man who for shits and giggles wanted to start a war with the Russians and that is the extent of most people knowledge of events.

Had he and Bradley switched jobs as they had before the Slap, Falaise would have been closed and FDR would have had to shoot Patton to stop him from entering Berlin months ahead of "Uncle Joe" Stalin.

Patton went to his grave knowing that all that was accomplished east of Berlin was that the world had traded a Fascist mass murderer for a Communist mass murderer.

 

[rightwinger]

While a strategic genius, Patton had a poor conception of the political realities of war.

That is why he never progressed beyond his third star

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Patton was a brilliant commander.
And he was dead on about Russia as history shows us.
Patton correctly saw Stalin as worse even than Hitler, and correctly predicted that they would dominate the entire theatre with great human suffering.

At the same time however, what we would have done with Russia if we would have conquered them is a whole other story.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

While a strategic genius, Patton had a poor conception of the political realities of war.

That is why he never progressed beyond his third star

Yeah, that whole "Getting killed" thingy in 1945 might have had something to do with it too

 

[del]

While a strategic genius, Patton had a poor conception of the political realities of war.

That is why he never progressed beyond his third star

he had four stars.

genius

 

[rightwinger]

While a strategic genius, Patton had a poor conception of the political realities of war.

That is why he never progressed beyond his third star

he had four stars.

genius

My bad...forgot he got promoted right before he died

 

[rightwinger]

Patton was a brilliant commander.
And he was dead on about Russia as history shows us.
Patton correctly saw Stalin as worse even than Hitler, and correctly predicted that they would dominate the entire theatre with great human suffering.

At the same time however, what we would have done with Russia if we would have conquered them is a whole other story.

The Russians had just finished killing 4 million Germans.

How many Americans would we have been willing to sacrifice?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Patton was a brilliant commander.
And he was dead on about Russia as history shows us.
Patton correctly saw Stalin as worse even than Hitler, and correctly predicted that they would dominate the entire theatre with great human suffering.

At the same time however, what we would have done with Russia if we would have conquered them is a whole other story.

The Russians had just finished killing 4 million Germans.

How many Americans would we have been willing to sacrifice?

The Russian Army at the end of the European war was just about completely evaporated.
They couldn't have defeated an Ivory Coast invasion at that point.

As a clarification, I am not saying I agree with Patton...as I said above, if we would have invaded/conquered Russia - what the hell would we have done with them?

 

[rightwinger]

Patton was a brilliant commander.
And he was dead on about Russia as history shows us.
Patton correctly saw Stalin as worse even than Hitler, and correctly predicted that they would dominate the entire theatre with great human suffering.
At the same time however, what we would have done with Russia if we would have conquered them is a whole other story.

The Russians had just finished killing 4 million Germans.
How many Americans would we have been willing to sacrifice?

The Russian Army at the end of the European war was just about completely evaporated.
They couldn't have defeated an Ivory Coast invasion at that point.
As a clarification, I am not saying I agree with Patton...as I said above, if we would have invaded/conquered Russia - what the hell would we have done with them?

Agree. Imagine the amount of starving people we would have had to support. Rebuilding Russia would make the Marshall plan look like pennies

 

[Sallow]

Patton was a brilliant commander.
And he was dead on about Russia as history shows us.
Patton correctly saw Stalin as worse even than Hitler, and correctly predicted that they would dominate the entire theatre with great human suffering.

At the same time however, what we would have done with Russia if we would have conquered them is a whole other story.

The Russians had just finished killing 4 million Germans.

How many Americans would we have been willing to sacrifice?

The Russian Army at the end of the European war was just about completely evaporated.
They couldn't have defeated an Ivory Coast invasion at that point.

As a clarification, I am not saying I agree with Patton...as I said above, if we would have invaded/conquered Russia - what the hell would we have done with them?

No "we" could not. Russians are tough people and by that point they were harden fighters. Add in..anyone who's tried to conquer Russia has failed..and failed miserably.

That's not taking into account that an attack on the Russians, an ally, would have broken the Alliance. The Chinese, while no friends of the Russians, for one, would not let such a treachery slide.

 

[westwall]

While a strategic genius, Patton had a poor conception of the political realities of war.

That is why he never progressed beyond his third star

No, he understood them quite well. He just didn't care.

 

[geauxtohell]

Hypothetical hindsight is always 20/20. Hypothetically speaking.

We won the war. If Patton was running the show, it might have gone better or it might have been a disaster.

We'll never know. As it stands, bashing Omar Bradley, one of the most competent commanders of the war, is idiotic.

If it weren't for Bradley, Patton probably would have lost his command after he smacked his soldier.

 

[geauxtohell]

While a strategic genius, Patton had a poor conception of the political realities of war.

That is why he never progressed beyond his third star

No, he understood them quite well. He just didn't care.

I doubt that.

Patton read Clausewitz.

 

[westwall]

Patton was a brilliant commander.
And he was dead on about Russia as history shows us.
Patton correctly saw Stalin as worse even than Hitler, and correctly predicted that they would dominate the entire theatre with great human suffering.

At the same time however, what we would have done with Russia if we would have conquered them is a whole other story.

The Russians had just finished killing 4 million Germans.

How many Americans would we have been willing to sacrifice?

The Germans on the other hand had killed around 25 million Russians. The average age of a Russian entering Berlin was around 17. At the beginning of the war in the east the Russians felt people were not as important as equipment so they used them up at a horrific rate. They lost 47,000 KIA just crossing the Volga into Stalingrad for reinforcements. We had a better airforce, we had better supply and we had a secure rear area because the Germans had actually offered in 1944 to surrender to the west they just wanted to continue the war in the East. If we had decided to continue on the Germans would have joined us with no hesitation.

Had we decided to go on we would have been won. Yes it would have been costly, and probably more costly than what occured. But it could have been done. The question is should it have been done and that is a numbers game. Would more have been killed doing it then were killed because we didn't.

 

[westwall]

The Russians had just finished killing 4 million Germans.

How many Americans would we have been willing to sacrifice?

The Russian Army at the end of the European war was just about completely evaporated.
They couldn't have defeated an Ivory Coast invasion at that point.

As a clarification, I am not saying I agree with Patton...as I said above, if we would have invaded/conquered Russia - what the hell would we have done with them?

No "we" could not. Russians are tough people and by that point they were harden fighters. Add in..anyone who's tried to conquer Russia has failed..and failed miserably.

That's not taking into account that an attack on the Russians, an ally, would have broken the Alliance. The Chinese, while no friends of the Russians, for one, would not let such a treachery slide.

Not true at all. The Mongols made short work of them. Napoleon was totally victorious and was only driven back by the winter. He had defeated all the troops the Russians sent against him. Easily.

 

[Sallow]

The Russian Army at the end of the European war was just about completely evaporated.
They couldn't have defeated an Ivory Coast invasion at that point.

As a clarification, I am not saying I agree with Patton...as I said above, if we would have invaded/conquered Russia - what the hell would we have done with them?

No "we" could not. Russians are tough people and by that point they were harden fighters. Add in..anyone who's tried to conquer Russia has failed..and failed miserably.

That's not taking into account that an attack on the Russians, an ally, would have broken the Alliance. The Chinese, while no friends of the Russians, for one, would not let such a treachery slide.

Not true at all. The Mongols made short work of them. Napoleon was totally victorious and was only driven back by the winter. He had defeated all the troops the Russians sent against him. Easily.

Which is why Russia is populated with Mongols and French.

 

[westwall]

Hypothetical hindsight is always 20/20. Hypothetically speaking.

We won the war. If Patton was running the show, it might have gone better or it might have been a disaster.

We'll never know. As it stands, bashing Omar Bradley, one of the most competent commanders of the war, is idiotic.

If it weren't for Bradley, Patton probably would have lost his command after he smacked his soldier.

Uhhhh, he did. He was the commander of the 7th Army and was relieved. He was placed in command of the Third Army for Operation Cobra over the protests of Bradley but Ike knew he needed Patton to run it because everyone else was too timid. One other thing the Falaise Pocket debacle was the fault of Monty. He was the overall commander on the ground in Normandy (Bradley was under him) and he was also in direct control of the northern pincher of the attack. He delayed his final assault long enough that the Germans were able to slip away. They left behind most of their equipment but they got the people out.

 

[westwall]

No "we" could not. Russians are tough people and by that point they were harden fighters. Add in..anyone who's tried to conquer Russia has failed..and failed miserably.

That's not taking into account that an attack on the Russians, an ally, would have broken the Alliance. The Chinese, while no friends of the Russians, for one, would not let such a treachery slide.

Not true at all. The Mongols made short work of them. Napoleon was totally victorious and was only driven back by the winter. He had defeated all the troops the Russians sent against him. Easily.

Which is why Russia is populated with Mongols and French.

You might want to take a look at the demographics of Russia there genius. Mongols were the troops that were used to drive the Germans back during Operation Typhoon. The French indeed were driven back after the winter, but the Mongols are still there.

 

[Sunni Man]

That's not taking into account that an attack on the Russians, an ally, would have broken the Alliance. The Chinese, while no friends of the Russians, for one, would not let such a treachery slide.

The Chinese Communists did even control China until 1949.

So they would not have been able to help the Russians if we had decided to attack in 1945-46.

 

[Trajan]

The Russians had just finished killing 4 million Germans.

How many Americans would we have been willing to sacrifice?

The Russian Army at the end of the European war was just about completely evaporated.
They couldn't have defeated an Ivory Coast invasion at that point.

As a clarification, I am not saying I agree with Patton...as I said above, if we would have invaded/conquered Russia - what the hell would we have done with them?

No "we" could not. Russians are tough people and by that point they were harden fighters. Add in..anyone who's tried to conquer Russia has failed..and failed miserably.

That's not taking into account that an attack on the Russians, an ally, would have broken the Alliance. The Chinese, while no friends of the Russians, for one, would not let such a treachery slide.

the Chinese civil war was raging, our ally Chiang Kai-shek and all, Mao didn't give a hoot for the Russians he had other problems. It took till 49 for Mao to get Chiang totally out of China.