Pastor Terry Burning Korans VS Ground Zero Mosque: Hypocricy is rampant

[California Girl]

Timothy McVeigh was a Catholic.

But I doubt that there would be any national debate or uproar.

If a new Catholic Church was going to be built a couple of blocks from the site of the former Murrah building in OKC

Oh, seriously.... that's pathetic. McVeigh's bombing had nothing to do with Catholicism. It is pathetic - and insulting to the intellect of anyone with an IQ over 10 to pretend it did.

 

[Sunni Man]

Timothy McVeigh was a Catholic.

But I doubt that there would be any national debate or uproar.

If a new Catholic Church was going to be built a couple of blocks from the site of the former Murrah building in OKC

Oh, seriously.... that's pathetic. McVeigh's bombing had nothing to do with Catholicism. It is pathetic - and insulting to the intellect of anyone with an IQ over 10 to pretend it did.

How do you know it had nothing to do with his religion?

McVeigh never gave the authorities a statement as to why he did it.

 

[jillian]

Timothy McVeigh was a Catholic.

But I doubt that there would be any national debate or uproar.

If a new Catholic Church was going to be built a couple of blocks from the site of the former Murrah building in OKC

Oh, seriously.... that's pathetic. McVeigh's bombing had nothing to do with Catholicism. It is pathetic - and insulting to the intellect of anyone with an IQ over 10 to pretend it did.

what about loons who bomb abortion clinics? or kill abortion doctors?

oh puleeze.... that has EVERYTHING to do with their religion. I wouldn't tar you with their brush though.

and just to bolster what i said before... would you say that General Petraeus "THREATENED" violence if books are burned?

or would you say that mischaracterizes things?

 

[California Girl]

Timothy McVeigh was a Catholic.

But I doubt that there would be any national debate or uproar.

If a new Catholic Church was going to be built a couple of blocks from the site of the former Murrah building in OKC

Oh, seriously.... that's pathetic. McVeigh's bombing had nothing to do with Catholicism. It is pathetic - and insulting to the intellect of anyone with an IQ over 10 to pretend it did.

what about loons who bomb abortion clinics? or kill abortion doctors?

oh puleeze.... that has EVERYTHING to do with their religion. I wouldn't tar you with their brush though.

and just to bolster what i said before... would you say that General Petraeus "THREATENED" violence if books are burned?

or would you say that mischaracterizes things?

Sorry, Jillian, no. He specifically mentioned McVeigh and infers that McVeigh's actions were because of his Catholicism. That is a lie. Don't blur the lines and pretend he meant something he did not.

It may be convenient to blur it beyond what he said but I'm calling him out on his words. He cannot prove a lie. McVeigh's actions had nothing to do with his religion. That's a fact.

 

[California Girl]

Timothy McVeigh was a Catholic.

But I doubt that there would be any national debate or uproar.

If a new Catholic Church was going to be built a couple of blocks from the site of the former Murrah building in OKC

Oh, seriously.... that's pathetic. McVeigh's bombing had nothing to do with Catholicism. It is pathetic - and insulting to the intellect of anyone with an IQ over 10 to pretend it did.

How do you know it had nothing to do with his religion?

McVeigh never gave the authorities a statement as to why he did it.

n a recorded interview with Time magazine[80] McVeigh professed his belief in "a god", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs." Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York. The Guardian reported that McVeigh wrote a letter to them claiming to be an agnostic and that he did not believe in a hell.[81][82] McVeigh once said that he believed the universe was guided by natural law, energized by some universal higher power that showed each person right from wrong if they paid attention to what was going on inside them. He had also said, "Science is my religion."[83]

Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You may dismiss Wiki as a source, but the above comes from an interview McVeigh himself gave to Time magazine.

You claim a link between his action and his religion. You were either wrong - in which case you should say so, or you deliberately lied.

 

[jillian]

Sorry, Jillian, no. He specifically mentioned McVeigh and infers that McVeigh's actions were because of his Catholicism. That is a lie. Don't blur the lines and pretend he meant something he did not.

It may be convenient to blur it beyond what he said but I'm calling him out on his words. He cannot prove a lie. McVeigh's actions had nothing to do with his religion. That's a fact.

I think we can opine about what drove McVeigh from what we know about him. But no, I wouldn't say it had to do with his christianity... if he even was still a christian at the time he blew up the Murrow Building.

I do think it had to do with him being a rightwingnut though.

Now back to my other point.... about the use of the word THREATEN.

lets not deflect.

it's okay... you can just say i'm correct any time.

 

[California Girl]

Sorry, Jillian, no. He specifically mentioned McVeigh and infers that McVeigh's actions were because of his Catholicism. That is a lie. Don't blur the lines and pretend he meant something he did not.

It may be convenient to blur it beyond what he said but I'm calling him out on his words. He cannot prove a lie. McVeigh's actions had nothing to do with his religion. That's a fact.

I think we can opine about what drove McVeigh from what we know about him. But no, I wouldn't say it had to do with his christianity... if he even was still a christian at the time he blew up the Murrow Building.

I do think it had to do with him being a rightwingnut though.

Now back to my other point.... about the use of the word THREATEN.

lets not deflect.

it's okay... you can just say i'm correct any time.

I didn't say it wasn't because of his right wing views. You're blurring the lines. Sunni inferred a link between McVeigh's actions and his Catholicism. That was not true and I have proven it to be untrue. So, now you move the goal posts and pretend that Sunni met his right wing politics. No. He did not. He specifically mentioned McVeigh, the bombing and McVeigh's faith. That comparison does not stand up to scrutiny. Fact.

 

[Varth Dader]

...I think its a very insensitve action and I dont think he should be building the cordova center in that specific location. By doing so it is very insensitive and disrespectful to the feelings of the majority of americans.

It's only insensitive if you believe that the American Muslims trying to build over there are in some way connected to 9/11.

Which I guess you do.

 

[jillian]

...I think its a very insensitve action and I dont think he should be building the cordova center in that specific location. By doing so it is very insensitive and disrespectful to the feelings of the majority of americans.

It's only insensitive if you believe that the American Muslims trying to build over there are in some way connected to 9/11.

Which I guess you do.

70% of americans think they shouldn't build there. it has nothing to do with thinking they're connected to 9/11. that's silly. i don't think for a second anyone believes this imam and his group were connected to 9/11.

by the same token as it is inappropriate to lump all muslims together... it is also ignorant to pretend that 9/11 wasn't the result of islamic extremism.

 

[Sunni Man]

Oh, seriously.... that's pathetic. McVeigh's bombing had nothing to do with Catholicism. It is pathetic - and insulting to the intellect of anyone with an IQ over 10 to pretend it did.

How do you know it had nothing to do with his religion?

McVeigh never gave the authorities a statement as to why he did it.

n a recorded interview with Time magazine[80] McVeigh professed his belief in "a god", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs." Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York. The Guardian reported that McVeigh wrote a letter to them claiming to be an agnostic and that he did not believe in a hell.[81][82] McVeigh once said that he believed the universe was guided by natural law, energized by some universal higher power that showed each person right from wrong if they paid attention to what was going on inside them. He had also said, "Science is my religion."[83]

Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You may dismiss Wiki as a source, but the above comes from an interview McVeigh himself gave to Time magazine.

You claim a link between his action and his religion. You were either wrong - in which case you should say so, or you deliberately lied.

Once again, Timothy McVeigh NEVER gave anyone a statement as to why he bombed the Murrah building.

Could it have been for his Catholic or Christian beliefs?

Neither you nor I can truthfully say 100% yes or no to this question.

All I know is that he was a Catholic Christian by birth and he did bomb the Murrah building.


Just using the same standard many on this board use to vilify Islam.

A man who was born in a muslim country to a muslim family committs a crime.

And automatically all muslims and Islam are to blame.

(even if the guy never attend a mosque or accepted Islam)

 

[Varth Dader]

...I think its a very insensitve action and I dont think he should be building the cordova center in that specific location. By doing so it is very insensitive and disrespectful to the feelings of the majority of americans.

It's only insensitive if you believe that the American Muslims trying to build over there are in some way connected to 9/11.

Which I guess you do.

70% of americans think they shouldn't build there. it has nothing to do with thinking they're connected to 9/11. that's silly.

70% of americans are making the link between 9/11 and this group of Muslims. If "Ground zero" has nothing to do with 9/11, that is news to me.

 

[California Girl]

How do you know it had nothing to do with his religion?

McVeigh never gave the authorities a statement as to why he did it.

n a recorded interview with Time magazine[80] McVeigh professed his belief in "a god", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs." Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York. The Guardian reported that McVeigh wrote a letter to them claiming to be an agnostic and that he did not believe in a hell.[81][82] McVeigh once said that he believed the universe was guided by natural law, energized by some universal higher power that showed each person right from wrong if they paid attention to what was going on inside them. He had also said, "Science is my religion."[83]

Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You may dismiss Wiki as a source, but the above comes from an interview McVeigh himself gave to Time magazine.

You claim a link between his action and his religion. You were either wrong - in which case you should say so, or you deliberately lied.

Once again, Timothy McVeigh NEVER gave anyone a statement as to why he bombed the Murrah building.

Could it have been for his Catholic or Christian beliefs?

Neither you nor I can truthfully say 100% yes or no to this question.

All I know is that he was a Catholic Christian by birth and he did bomb the Murrah building.


Just using the same standard many on this board use to vilify Islam.

A man who was born in a muslim country to a muslim family committs a crime.

And automatically all muslims and Islam are to blame.

(even if the guy never attend a mosque or accepted Islam)

Now you're just looking ridiculous. You've been proved wrong and instead of accepting that, you come up with some crap about how we can never truthfully say 100% the answer. Sunni, usually I respect you but you're looking like a coward now. You used a crap analogy - own it.

 

[Intense]

How do you know it had nothing to do with his religion?

McVeigh never gave the authorities a statement as to why he did it.

n a recorded interview with Time magazine[80] McVeigh professed his belief in "a god", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs." Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York. The Guardian reported that McVeigh wrote a letter to them claiming to be an agnostic and that he did not believe in a hell.[81][82] McVeigh once said that he believed the universe was guided by natural law, energized by some universal higher power that showed each person right from wrong if they paid attention to what was going on inside them. He had also said, "Science is my religion."[83]

Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You may dismiss Wiki as a source, but the above comes from an interview McVeigh himself gave to Time magazine.

You claim a link between his action and his religion. You were either wrong - in which case you should say so, or you deliberately lied.

Once again, Timothy McVeigh NEVER gave anyone a statement as to why he bombed the Murrah building.

Could it have been for his Catholic or Christian beliefs?

Neither you nor I can truthfully say 100% yes or no to this question.

All I know is that he was a Catholic Christian by birth and he did bomb the Murrah building.


Just using the same standard many on this board use to vilify Islam.

A man who was born in a muslim country to a muslim family committs a crime.

And automatically all muslims and Islam are to blame.

(even if the guy never attend a mosque or accepted Islam)

In a Muslim Country, he is guilty of being an Apostate. Death Penalty either way.

 

[California Girl]

...I think its a very insensitve action and I dont think he should be building the cordova center in that specific location. By doing so it is very insensitive and disrespectful to the feelings of the majority of americans.

It's only insensitive if you believe that the American Muslims trying to build over there are in some way connected to 9/11.

Which I guess you do.

70% of americans think they shouldn't build there. it has nothing to do with thinking they're connected to 9/11. that's silly. i don't think for a second anyone believes this imam and his group were connected to 9/11.

by the same token as it is inappropriate to lump all muslims together... it is also ignorant to pretend that 9/11 wasn't the result of islamic extremism.

I'm part of that 70%. I think it is morally wrong to build there. It has nothing to do with me thinking all Muslims are responsible for 9/11 - they were not. As you say, 9/11 was the result of a minority of extremists. But.... since you are so fond of hypotheticals... let's try this one.....

Suppose they build that Mosque or community center or whatever they want to call it... and suppose some ******* right wing Christian whackjob (see, I'm giving you all the ammunition by providing all your favorite 'talking points').... decides to blow up that Mosque/community center.... Just what impact do you think THAT would have across the Muslim world?

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think we should decide what is the right thing to do by the impact it will have on others but... if we think burning a few Quarans is gonna get our troops killed, if we think that moving the mosque/community center might inflame Muslims, what the hell do you think they're gonna do if some ******* idiot blows up their Mosque?

 

[jillian]

In a Muslim Country, he is guilty of being an Apostate. Death Penalty either way.

is there a point to that?

 

[jillian]

It's only insensitive if you believe that the American Muslims trying to build over there are in some way connected to 9/11.

Which I guess you do.

70% of americans think they shouldn't build there. it has nothing to do with thinking they're connected to 9/11. that's silly. i don't think for a second anyone believes this imam and his group were connected to 9/11.

by the same token as it is inappropriate to lump all muslims together... it is also ignorant to pretend that 9/11 wasn't the result of islamic extremism.

I'm part of that 70%. I think it is morally wrong to build there. It has nothing to do with me thinking all Muslims are responsible for 9/11 - they were not. As you say, 9/11 was the result of a minority of extremists. But.... since you are so fond of hypotheticals... let's try this one.....

Suppose they build that Mosque or community center or whatever they want to call it... and suppose some ******* right wing Christian whackjob (see, I'm giving you all the ammunition by providing all your favorite 'talking points').... decides to blow up that Mosque/community center.... Just what impact do you think THAT would have across the Muslim world?

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think we should decide what is the right thing to do by the impact it will have on others but... if we think burning a few Quarans is gonna get our troops killed, if we think that moving the mosque/community center might inflame Muslims, what the hell do you think they're gonna do if some ******* idiot blows up their Mosque?

who says i'm not part of the 70%? In fact, I am uncomfortable with the idea of a mosque there. fortunately, or unfortunately, the constitution does not guarantee our comfort... it guarantees certain freedoms. that doesn't mean i don't think that it would be a better idea to move it a few blocks away.

if someone blows up the mosque, they will be as wrong as anyone who attacks any other innocent person and will, hopefully, be punished to the full extent of the law.

now, suppose that people stop inciting violence about that mosque. it might be helpful... because i will tell you that i believe the violent and hate-filled rhetoric on both sides is a problem.

I also believe that people saying things like 'well, they blow up stuff' or in "THEIR" country this or that would happen is absurd. We aren't IN "THEIR" country, we are in ours. And, thankfully, we have different rules.

Otherwise, there wouldn't be much reason to live here.

 

[California Girl]

70% of americans think they shouldn't build there. it has nothing to do with thinking they're connected to 9/11. that's silly. i don't think for a second anyone believes this imam and his group were connected to 9/11.

by the same token as it is inappropriate to lump all muslims together... it is also ignorant to pretend that 9/11 wasn't the result of islamic extremism.

I'm part of that 70%. I think it is morally wrong to build there. It has nothing to do with me thinking all Muslims are responsible for 9/11 - they were not. As you say, 9/11 was the result of a minority of extremists. But.... since you are so fond of hypotheticals... let's try this one.....

Suppose they build that Mosque or community center or whatever they want to call it... and suppose some ******* right wing Christian whackjob (see, I'm giving you all the ammunition by providing all your favorite 'talking points').... decides to blow up that Mosque/community center.... Just what impact do you think THAT would have across the Muslim world?

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think we should decide what is the right thing to do by the impact it will have on others but... if we think burning a few Quarans is gonna get our troops killed, if we think that moving the mosque/community center might inflame Muslims, what the hell do you think they're gonna do if some ******* idiot blows up their Mosque?

who says i'm not part of the 70%?

if someone blows up the mosque, they will be as wrong as anyone who attacks any other innocent person and will, hopefully, be punished to the full extent of the law.

now, suppose that people stop inciting violence about that mosque. it might be helpful... because i will tell you that i believe the violent and hate-filled rhetoric on both sides is a problem.

I also believe that people saying things like 'well, they blow up stuff' or in "THEIR" country this or that would happen is absurd. We aren't IN "THEIR" country, we are in ours. And, thankfully, we have different rules.

Otherwise, there wouldn't be much reason to live here.

Leave aside the legal implications. We are a society of laws and one assumes that anyone who did that would be prosecuted and do serious time.... Do you think that would stop the fanatics within Islam? No.

And.... While I will say that I have seen some stupid anti-Muslim rhetoric from a minority of idiots on the right.... The media labels everyone who disagrees with the mosque as 'bigots'... If you want to lay claim of 'inciting violence' - lay it at the door of the MSM.

 

[Varth Dader]

...Suppose they build that Mosque or community center or whatever they want to call it... and suppose some ******* right wing Christian whackjob (see, I'm giving you all the ammunition by providing all your favorite 'talking points').... decides to blow up that Mosque/community center.... Just what impact do you think THAT would have across the Muslim world?

Do you have a list of what Muslims can and cannot do at or around Ground Zero? Are they allowed to walk around the site or do you think that should also be stopped to prevent potential attacks on them? Maybe Muslim cab drivers should be prevented from working in NY to also reduce the chances of attacks... Is there a safe zone where Muslims can build a community center and where an attack on the Mosque won't trigger all the bad consequences? 3 blocks? 10 blocks? 100 blocks?

 

[California Girl]

...Suppose they build that Mosque or community center or whatever they want to call it... and suppose some ******* right wing Christian whackjob (see, I'm giving you all the ammunition by providing all your favorite 'talking points').... decides to blow up that Mosque/community center.... Just what impact do you think THAT would have across the Muslim world?

Do you have a list of what Muslims can and cannot do at or around Ground Zero? Are they allowed to walk around the site or do you think that should also be stopped to prevent potential attacks on them? Maybe Muslim cab drivers should be prevented from working in NY to also reduce the chances of attacks... Is there a safe zone where Muslims can build a community center and where an attack on the Mosque won't trigger all the bad consequences? 3 blocks? 10 blocks? 100 blocks?

I don't debate strawmen.

 

[PoliticalChic]

They are both Fundamentalists of the First Order.

Now finally America, can you see what results from fundamentalist thinking? Lunacy, idiocy and instigation.

Fundamentalists in religion, in politics, in public morality should never have any attention paid to them. It only encourages this lunatic behavior.

"...It only encourages this lunatic behavior. "


"Let’s not, however, be fooled by the thinking that this act will incite Islamists in some special way. If Islamists did not have koran burnings to incite them to kill Americans, they would just find something else....

I think it is bad form for the military to start applying pressure to influence the political activities (and this is clearly a form of political speech) of American civilians. Petraeus is essentially attributing direct responsibility for American deaths to the activities of American citizens (and I hasten to point out that he made no similar public pronouncement about the activities of antiwar demonstrators who, at least arguably, caused American deaths by giving the jihadis reason to believe they could drive us out of Iraq given enough casualties).

Ultimately, this issue is not about tolerance of Islam, but about fear of Islam."


David Petraeus And The Koran Burnings | RedState