Parents Who Prayed While Child Died Charged

[Ravi]

What?

Find a doctor who says that you shouldn't receive the standard medical treatment for diabetes and instead you should get "aromatherapy".

Yeah, I'm sure there's a diabetes health care team out there somewhere that endorses aromatherapy as an alternative treatment instead of as a stress reliever to be used alongside insulin.

 

[Ravi]

Also keep in mind that type 1 diabetes has sudden onset, which makes it more deadly.

People die from this with treatment as well, chickies.

If I wanted a dr. to give me the go-ahead for aromatherapy, I've no doubt I could find one. Particularly if I liked in the UK.

I thought you were pretending she had type 2? Type 1 doesn't have a sudden onset. My sister-in-law had it for two years before she knew what it was. This girl was sick enough that her aunt called in the troops over her parent's refusal to get her treatment.

Any doctor will tell you aromatherapy is fine but no doctor will tell you it's a substitute for insulin.

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't know which one she had. Type 1 often has very sudden onset:


"Because of the sudden onset and severity of symptoms in type 1 diabetes, treatment for newly diagnosed people may involve hospitalization."

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000305.htm

It's a good thing there weren't a bunch of judgmental loons on a message board to witness your sister's illness, or your parents could have been charged with criminal negligence for not being more on the ball.

 

[Ravi]

Sister in law. And she'd been under medical care all along. She's fine now, btw. As long as she takes her insulin and eats right you'd never know there was anything wrong with her.

 

[AllieBaba]

She's lucky. And nobody with diabetes 1 is "fine". THey manage. Or they die.
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=75&cat=2

 

[Larkinn]

Also keep in mind that type 1 diabetes has sudden onset, which makes it more deadly.

People die from this with treatment as well, chickies.

If I wanted a dr. to give me the go-ahead for aromatherapy, I've no doubt I could find one. Particularly if I liked in the UK.

"These data are of importance to the endocrine community as a reminder that kidney disease and premature death remain all too frequent among persons with type 1 diabetes."

Insulin is NO GUARANTEE that diabetics will live long fruitful lifes.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/91/10/3757

Aromatherapy instead of insulin .

 

[Ravi]

She's lucky. And nobody with diabetes 1 is "fine". THey manage. Or they die.
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=75&cat=2

Probably a lack of insurance.

It is a troubling problem, isn't it?

 

[AllieBaba]

People who are treated die, too. The death rate is increasing.
"Diabetes remains a leading cause of mortality, and the number of deaths is increasing."


http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/statistics/survl99/chap1/mortality.htm

 

[Ravi]

People who are treated die, too. The death rate is increasing.
"Diabetes remains a leading cause of mortality, and the number of deaths is increasing."


http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/statistics/survl99/chap1/mortality.htm

How many die because their parents refuse to get them treatment?

 

[AllieBaba]

Can you prove she wouldn't have died anyway?
"Cerebral edema occurs in approximately 1% of subjects with diabetic ketoacidosis but carries a 43% severe morbidity and mortality rate."
http://pier.acponline.org/physicians/public/d257/hospitalize/d257-g5.2-rec.html

 

[AllieBaba]

How many die because their parents refuse to get them treatment?

There's no way to know, because that would require proof that they died because their parents withheld treatment, and wouldn't have died otherwise. She died of complications of diabetes. Lots of people who are treated die of diabetes, too.

"The incidence of this condition may be increasing, and a 1 to 2 percent mortality rate has stubbornly persisted since the 1970s."

See, they die anyway. With treatment.

"Although protocols for the treatment of diabetic ketoacidosis are well established, a 1 to 2 percent mortality rate has persisted since the 1970s,5 emphasizing the need for careful, ongoing evaluation of this sometimes "routine" medical emergency."

Which is another way of saying, "they continue to die anyway, with medical treatment."

"Symptomatic cerebral edema occurs primarily in pediatric patients, particularly those with newly diagnosed diabetes. No single factor predictive for cerebral edema has yet been identified." Hmmm. Insulin doesn't prevent it. So although you can treat with insulin, they can (and do) still die from edema.

Insulin apparently causes heart disease, as well.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/990800ap/455.html

Lest we forget, the "cure" can result in death as well:
"Acute pulmonary edema is potentially related to aggressive or excessive fluid therapy. Although initial aggressive fluid replacement is necessary in all patients, particular care must be taken in those with comorbidities such as renal failure or congestive heart failure." Oops. Wonder if the doctors would be charged with murder?
http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic135.htm

People have the right to make their own choices about their health care, and their children's health care. Provided they aren't setting out deliberately to kill the kids, and the treatment isn't in and of itself dangerous.

 

[Shogun]

Can you prove she wouldn't have died anyway?
"Cerebral edema occurs in approximately 1% of subjects with diabetic ketoacidosis but carries a 43% severe morbidity and mortality rate."
http://pier.acponline.org/physicians/public/d257/hospitalize/d257-g5.2-rec.html

we dont have to fucking prove that she would have died anyway. it CAN be proven that parental negligence is the CAUSE of her death. Hence the charges.


for real. get over yourself.

 

[AllieBaba]

Er, no, it can't. She died of diabetes. Nobody can proved that she wouldn't have died anyway, because a good number do die with treatment, and because of treatment.

It's frivolous, and grandstanding to charge these parents.

 

[AllieBaba]

"In children younger than 10 years, DKA causes 70% of diabetes-related fatalities."
url]http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic135.htm[/url]
So there's absolutely no way to tell if she would have been one of the ones to die or not. Because many, many children die from it regardless of treatment.

Children with DKA have a higher mortality rate than adults. http://pier.acponline.org/physicians/public/d644/primary.prevention/d644-g1.3-rec.html

 

[mattskramer]

Er, no, it can't. She died of diabetes. Nobody can proved that she wouldn't have died anyway, because a good number do die with treatment, and because of treatment.

It's frivolous, and grandstanding to charge these parents.

This could all be settled with a study but I doubt that we would get enough volunteers. All volunteers should have the same serious disease at the same stage of the disease. We would also control for the patients’ ages and over-all health. We would treat half of the patients with only standard contemporary medicine and surgery – with nothing else. We would treat the other half with only prayer – with nothing else. Do you think that enough people would volunteer to be treated with only prayer? If so, what do you honestly think that the results would be? Which group would live longer?

 

[Shogun]

allie you are full of shit and only taking up this cause because you feel worse for nutter christains than you do a DEAD FUCKING CHILD. like I said. get over yourself. Im looking forward to their conviction.

 

[mattskramer]

allie you are full of shit and only taking up this cause because you feel worse for nutter christains than you do a DEAD FUCKING CHILD. like I said. get over yourself. Im looking forward to their conviction.

 

[AllieBaba]

There's no doubt that the death rate used to be 100 percent.

But there's also no doubt that children still die, and NOTHING HELPS THEM.

There's no doubt that their lives are harrowing, they are dogged by high suicide rates, a variety of terrible consequences (amputations, reduced cognitive capability, kidney failure, etc.)

We get to make the choices ourselves. There could have been a hundred things at work here. The illness could have been a really sudden onset, and the parents just didn't have time to consider it long enough before the girl died. People die at home every day because somebody is slow to get them to the doctor. It's something that happens and it ISN'T MURDER.
Or they may not have realized how serious it was. It still isn't murder.
It's not murder if they are ATHEISTS and decide to bypass insulin and hydration treatments because they don't like the options...

 

[AllieBaba]

allie you are full of shit and only taking up this cause because you feel worse for nutter christains than you do a DEAD FUCKING CHILD. like I said. get over yourself. Im looking forward to their conviction.

Nope. I think it's foolish. But they have a right to choose the treatment for their kid.

 

[Shogun]

Nope. I think it's foolish. But they have a right to choose the treatment for their kid.

well, in the eyes of the law I guess it doesn't really matter what you think about it, eh? It's no mystery why Jim Jones was popular.