Parents Who Prayed While Child Died Charged

[Shogun]

bullshit, baba. MILLIONS of christians are in the US NOT letting their kids die to prove their personal faith. THIS is not a standard christian behaviour anymore than snakebiting is. However, THESE people are still CHRISTIANS by evidence of their own motives. I don't care if you think it's their faith that catches my ire. I don't care if you think it's a bandwagon that makes people take notice of a dead kid. If this makes you thnk you live in a left behind world then so be it.

 

[jillian]

im not up to speed on my yiddish so i'll assume that word means "bullshit"

hehehe.

well, sort of... it means "crazy", "nutty" ;o)

 

[jillian]

They didn't let the kid die to affirm personal belief. THey chose an alternative treatment.

Wonder if you'd be all up in arms if they'd chosen to withhold vaccines because they were afraid of autism, and the kid died of measles?

prayer is not "alternative treatment".

 

[AllieBaba]

bullshit, baba. MILLIONS of christians are in the US NOT letting their kids die to prove their personal faith. THIS is not a standard christian behaviour anymore than snakebiting is. However, THESE people are still CHRISTIANS by evidence of their own motives. I don't care if you think it's their faith that catches my ire. I don't care if you think it's a bandwagon that makes people take notice of a dead kid. If this makes you thnk you live in a left behind world then so be it.

And I didn't say it was the standard. Read my posts. I stand by my statement that people have the right to choose the option that is best for them, and in a case like this when the kid could die at ANY TIME anyway, I don't see it as a case of "those dumb fucking Christians".

BTW, there are no stats about the relation between untreated diabetes in children and death...
http://www.ndep.nih.gov/diabetes/youth/youth_FS.htm#Type2

"Undiagnosed type 2 diabetes in children and adolescents may place these young people at early risk for cardiovascular disease; however, no data are available to define the scope of this problem."

In addition, the "treatment" for juvenile diabetes, insulin, isn't always effective. Resistance to insulin is an issue.

"Most children and adolescents diagnosed with type 2 diabetes are overweight or obese, insulin resistant, and have a family history of type 2 diabetes. They also may have physical signs of insulin resistance such as acanthosis nigricans. Diabetes complications such as microalbuminuria and the presence of cardiovascular risk factors such as abnormal cholesterol and high blood pressure have been observed among teenage Pima Indians8 and in other pediatric populations in the United States.12,13"

So you guys who are so ready to crucify this family provide proof that this girl wasn't insulin resistant, and something which proves that she wouldn't have died anyway.

The use of insulin has risks, as well:

"However, many physicians are reluctant to institute insulin therapy in type 2 diabetes for fear of accelerating atherosclerosis. The epidemiological evidence is reasonably sound that hyperinsulinism correlates with increased cardiovascular disease in nondiabetic people and those with early type 2 diabetes."
http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetescare/FullText/Supplements/DiabetesCare/Supplement399/C45.asp

Stupid mobites.

 

[Shogun]

and in a case like this when the kid could die at ANY TIME anyway, I don't see it as a case of "those dumb fucking Christians".


this is the kind of statement that validates the term "dumb fucking christians".

dont think so? follow the same path as the nutters above and see what it gets you.

 

[AllieBaba]

Now you're not even making sense.

"In a well-developed health care system, there is still a significant excess mortality in young type 1 diabetic patients.
We confirm a very large proportion of unexplained deaths in bed, which should be further studied."
http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/16186267?src=emed_ckb_ref_0
One assumes that's with treatment. So prove her lack of treatment caused her death, or that she wouldn't have died anyway.

 

[Shogun]

So prove her lack of treatment caused her death, or that she wouldn't have died anyway.

I assure you, their criminal trial will do that for me. Again, prayer isn't "treatment". Think otherwise? watch what happens to these bastards.

 

[Larkinn]

Who knows if it would have worked or not. Why don't we know? Because the child wasn't allowed to seek medical treatment .

Praying is not an "alternative treatment". In fact its no treatment at all.

If you have diabetes feel free to pray, get needles stuck into your body, or whatever kind of weird shit you want done. If you are responsible for someone elses well being, then you have a responsibility to give them the best possible medical care you can.

 

[AllieBaba]

It's as valid as any "alternative treatment".

 

[Larkinn]

It's as valid as any "alternative treatment".

Such as?

 

[Shogun]

It's as valid as any "alternative treatment".

no, it's really not.


show me your sources that suggest that it is.

 

[Ravi]

According to the autopsy she died of diabetic ketoaciosis. There is no alternative treatment for it.

Diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) is a life-threatening complication in patients with untreated diabetes mellitus (chronic high blood sugar or hyperglycemia). Near complete deficiency of insulin and elevated levels of certain stress hormones combine to cause DKA. DKA is more common among Type I diabetics, but may also occur in Type II diabetics generally when physiologically stressed, such as during an infection. Patients with new, undiagnosed Type I diabetes frequently present to hospitals with DKA. DKA can also occur in a known diabetic who fails to take prescribed insulin. DKA was a major cause of death in Type I diabetics before insulin injections were available; untreated DKA has a high mortality rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetic_ketoacidosis

 

[AllieBaba]

http://www.diafree.com/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/alternative-treatment/Diabetes-and-Vegetarianism.html
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/alternative-treatment/Diabetes-and-Aromatherapy.html
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/alternative-treatment/Diabetes-and-Aromatherapy.html

These are all alternative treatments for diabetes.Aromatherapy, yoga, vegetarianism, and aromatherapy (ha!). Oh, and "biofeedback" which requires hooking up to some humming machine.

Hey, but the guys who pray are the crazy ones.

 

[AllieBaba]

According to the autopsy she died of diabetic ketoaciosis. There is no alternative treatment for it.

Diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) is a life-threatening complication in patients with untreated diabetes mellitus (chronic high blood sugar or hyperglycemia). Near complete deficiency of insulin and elevated levels of certain stress hormones combine to cause DKA. DKA is more common among Type I diabetics, but may also occur in Type II diabetics generally when physiologically stressed, such as during an infection. Patients with new, undiagnosed Type I diabetes frequently present to hospitals with DKA. DKA can also occur in a known diabetic who fails to take prescribed insulin. DKA was a major cause of death in Type I diabetics before insulin injections were available; untreated DKA has a high mortality rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetic_ketoacidosis

They die from this with treatment too, sweetcheeks. That's my point.

 

[Larkinn]

http://www.diafree.com/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/alternative-treatment/Diabetes-and-Vegetarianism.html
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/alternative-treatment/Diabetes-and-Aromatherapy.html
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/alternative-treatment/Diabetes-and-Aromatherapy.html

These are all alternative treatments for diabetes.Aromatherapy, yoga, vegetarianism, and aromatherapy (ha!). Oh, and "biofeedback" which requires hooking up to some humming machine.

Hey, but the guys who pray are the crazy ones.

And if anyone does any of those treatments as a substitute for medical treatment for their child, they deserve to be prosecuted.

 

[Ravi]

http://www.diafree.com/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/alternative-treatment/Diabetes-and-Vegetarianism.html
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/alternative-treatment/Diabetes-and-Aromatherapy.html
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/alternative-treatment/Diabetes-and-Aromatherapy.html

These are all alternative treatments for diabetes.Aromatherapy, yoga, vegetarianism, and aromatherapy (ha!). Oh, and "biofeedback" which requires hooking up to some humming machine.

Hey, but the guys who pray are the crazy ones.

You idiot, from your own link: However, before any aromatherapy is used to help diabetes, it is vital to consult with your GP and diabetes healthcare team.

 

[AllieBaba]

So what? Anyone can find a doctor to support them in any treatment.

 

[Shogun]

bullshit. find one that perscribes prayer instead of treatment. You are making excuses for your bible thumper buddies when their actions produced a dead kid.


congrats. I'm sure millions are impressed by your example.

 

[Larkinn]

So what? Anyone can find a doctor to support them in any treatment.

What?

Find a doctor who says that you shouldn't receive the standard medical treatment for diabetes and instead you should get "aromatherapy".

 

[AllieBaba]

Also keep in mind that type 1 diabetes has sudden onset, which makes it more deadly.

People die from this with treatment as well, chickies.

If I wanted a dr. to give me the go-ahead for aromatherapy, I've no doubt I could find one. Particularly if I liked in the UK.

"These data are of importance to the endocrine community as a reminder that kidney disease and premature death remain all too frequent among persons with type 1 diabetes."

Insulin is NO GUARANTEE that diabetics will live long fruitful lifes.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/91/10/3757