Pallywood in action: staging "Price Tag", blaming Jews

[Lipush]

For years, Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria have been accusing Arab and leftist activists of falsely blaming them for "price tag" revenge attacks that they never carried out. Now, one determined resident of Samaria appears to have found a "smoking gun", documenting how local Arabs have been damaging olive trees and then reporting the incidents to authorities and the media as "price tag" attacks carried out by local Jews.

...on a number of occasions suspected "price tag" incidents have been proven false or staged by Arab and left-wing activists, who purposely damage Arab-owned property in an attempt to blame nearby Jewish communities.

Jewish community leaders in Judea and Samaria have regularly expressed concern that "price tag" accusations are being used by left-wing and Arab extremists as part of a campaign of anti-Jewish incitement.

On occasion, Jewish residents have been able to provide photographic and videotaped proof of staged provocations by Arab and leftist extremists - but this may be the most convincing evidence to date of the truth of this claim.

The investigation was started by 27-year-old "K", after he faced accusations of carrying out price tag attacks - accusations he has strenuously denied. K is a prominent member of the ''hilltop youth", a term used to describe groups of young Israeli activists committed to building in Judea and Samaria.

K - who asked not to be named - was assisted lately in his investigation by Ari Kaniel, Director of IS, a firm that provides legal and security consulting.

Kaniel persuaded K to document the provocateurs who stage the price attacks instead of confronting them, and this is precisely what he did Tuesday, when he encountered a group of Arabs staging a "price tag" attack, not far from the Jewish town of Eli, in Samaria (Shomron)....

Photos: Arabs Stage 'Price Tags', Blame Jews - Defense/Security - News - Israel National News

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[toastman]

Not surprising to the least. Palestinians must lie constantly to make sure their perpetual victim status remains in place

 

[Lipush]

Yep, and those are our teens who get arrested!

 

[Coyote]

That in no way diminishes or excuses the very real price tag violence.

 

[toastman]

That in no way diminishes or excuses the very real price tag violence.

Why should we believe Palestinians accusations of price tag attacks that were committed by Jews to be factual, if they have just been caught lying ? (this is not the first time BTW)
I'm not suggesting that it's never happened, I'm sure it has many times, but once you lie about, it changes things

 

[Lipush]

That in no way diminishes or excuses the very real price tag violence.

It wouldn't, especially when you don't know how many of them are real and how many of them are staged.

Usually, the ones which are "authentic" are the ones who are in 'in the name of' of Jewish victims. like the price tag of the stabbing in the bus station, they wrote "Revenge" and "Eviatar" (Jew killed by Palestinians") and the one which stated "Regards from Adelle" (the toddler injured by stones).

It is unlikely that they do things out of the blue. things like the above? those are obviously staged. "Price tag" which are done in the name of someone, like the Fogels, or baby-Adelle or settlers who have been murdered, those are the ones to suspect are real (even though some of them were staged, too).

Palestinians don't bother to check the names of their victims, so when the names are pointed out, that'll be probably real. But that doesn't happen as much as those "scenes" are staged.

I bet at least 90% of them are.

Now, the question is- If they lie about that, what else do they lie about?!

 

[Coyote]

That in no way diminishes or excuses the very real price tag violence.

Why should we believe Palestinians accusations of price tag attacks that were committed by Jews to be factual, if they have just been caught lying ? (this is not the first time BTW)
I'm not suggesting that it's never happened, I'm sure it has many times, but once you lie about, it changes things

Because many of them have been followed up on and the culprits arrested - particularly in cases where homes and vehicles have been firebombed and Palestinians hospitalized with injuries and, reaction (here) to that is largely to justify it, excuse it.

Let me put it to you another way. Consider this article: IDF: Soldiers lied during questioning over wrongful shooting of Palestinian Israel News | Haaretz

Would it be reasonable to conclude from this that IDF solders routinely do these things and ask - why should we believe them when Palestinian civilians get shot?

 

[irosie91]

It would be reasonable to conclude -----If you don't know-----you don't know

 

[Coyote]

That in no way diminishes or excuses the very real price tag violence.

It wouldn't, especially when you don't know how many of them are real and how many of them are staged.

Usually, the ones which are "authentic" are the ones who are in 'in the name of' of Jewish victims. like the price tag of the stabbing in the bus station, they wrote "Revenge" and "Eviatar" (Jew killed by Palestinians") and the one which stated "Regards from Adelle" (the toddler injured by stones).

It is unlikely that they do things out of the blue. things like the above? those are obviously staged. "Price tag" which are done in the name of someone, like the Fogels, or baby-Adelle or settlers who have been murdered, those are the ones to suspect are real (even though some of them were staged, too).

Palestinians don't bother to check the names of their victims, so when the names are pointed out, that'll be probably real. But that doesn't happen as much as those "scenes" are staged.

I bet at least 90% of them are.

I think it's pretty easy, once you track down and arrest participants - to get the truth.

Now, the question is- If they lie about that, what else do they lie about?!

You realize that same question could be asked regarding the IDF's actions towards Palestinian civilians don't you?

 

[Lipush]

That in no way diminishes or excuses the very real price tag violence.

It wouldn't, especially when you don't know how many of them are real and how many of them are staged.

Usually, the ones which are "authentic" are the ones who are in 'in the name of' of Jewish victims. like the price tag of the stabbing in the bus station, they wrote "Revenge" and "Eviatar" (Jew killed by Palestinians") and the one which stated "Regards from Adelle" (the toddler injured by stones).

It is unlikely that they do things out of the blue. things like the above? those are obviously staged. "Price tag" which are done in the name of someone, like the Fogels, or baby-Adelle or settlers who have been murdered, those are the ones to suspect are real (even though some of them were staged, too).

Palestinians don't bother to check the names of their victims, so when the names are pointed out, that'll be probably real. But that doesn't happen as much as those "scenes" are staged.

I bet at least 90% of them are.

I think it's pretty easy, once you track down and arrest participants - to get the truth.

Now, the question is- If they lie about that, what else do they lie about?!

You realize that same question could be asked regarding the IDF's actions towards Palestinian civilians don't you?

Touche.

But those things are investigated

Anyone bothered to check the Palestinian staging technicks till now? nobody gives a **** since they all are sure that the settlers are the bad ones while the palestinians are the victims.

When you got everything mapped-up, you really bother to check for truths?

 

[Coyote]

I totally oppose "Price Tag" - I think it is no more justifiable or excusable than any other acts of violence against innocent civilians. It's designed to create fear and intimidation - in my mind Price Taggers are NO DIFFERENT than the KKK here in the US.

The unfortunate reality of this thread though, is it brings up a good point - the Palestinians are their own worst enemy. But that should not excuse the very real and well documented violence conducted by Price Taggers.

 

[Coyote]

It wouldn't, especially when you don't know how many of them are real and how many of them are staged.

Usually, the ones which are "authentic" are the ones who are in 'in the name of' of Jewish victims. like the price tag of the stabbing in the bus station, they wrote "Revenge" and "Eviatar" (Jew killed by Palestinians") and the one which stated "Regards from Adelle" (the toddler injured by stones).

It is unlikely that they do things out of the blue. things like the above? those are obviously staged. "Price tag" which are done in the name of someone, like the Fogels, or baby-Adelle or settlers who have been murdered, those are the ones to suspect are real (even though some of them were staged, too).

Palestinians don't bother to check the names of their victims, so when the names are pointed out, that'll be probably real. But that doesn't happen as much as those "scenes" are staged.

I bet at least 90% of them are.

I think it's pretty easy, once you track down and arrest participants - to get the truth.

Now, the question is- If they lie about that, what else do they lie about?!

You realize that same question could be asked regarding the IDF's actions towards Palestinian civilians don't you?

Touche.

But those things are investigated

So are Price Tag Crimes.

Anyone bothered to check the Palestinian staging technicks till now? nobody gives a **** since they all are sure that the settlers are the bad ones while the palestinians are the victims.

Actually, there are plenty who are sure it's the Palestinians who are the bad ones and Israel who is the victim

Sometimes the truth is murky.

When you got everything mapped-up, you really bother to check for truths?

Does anyone here?

I don't claim the Palestinians don't sabotage their own cause through these kind of acts - it is also well documented. But I also do not and will not excuse well documented violence against Palestinian civilians by Price Taggers. They are thugs and deserve to be treated like Palestinian teen thugs are - throw them in a outdoor enclosure and make them face military justice

 

[Lipush]

I refuse to consider graffitti as "crime", as I said before. I do reject any kind of actual physical violence on innocent people.

"Price tag" as itself is anything but terrorism or crime. As a matter of fact, this method originated at the 60's and 70's of the past century. Unit funded by Ariel Sharon, called the 101 unit, was the one to initiate the "price tag". Arab terrorists known as the Fadayun would hurt and kill innocent Jews and civilians.

The 101 unit will find them, burn down their houses and destroy their property. The idea was to hurt them and them alone. Nobody in those years considered that as "terrorism", it was a war, they hurt us? we hurt them.

Price tag of today, I'm talking about the more drastic cases, not the cartoon kids, are condemned because they aren't targeted on the terrorists themselves, since it's at times impossible to track them, so what the settlers do is spread the rage on any palestinian they find.

That is no better than what they do to us, and that I highly condemn.

For the record, Israel is not a victim. Israel is a strong nation, established upon the idea of never being a victim ever again.

This is a war of surviving, and we have much more to lose than the Arabs.

That's how I see it, anyway

 

[MHunterB]

That in no way diminishes or excuses the very real price tag violence.

Why should we believe Palestinians accusations of price tag attacks that were committed by Jews to be factual, if they have just been caught lying ? (this is not the first time BTW)
I'm not suggesting that it's never happened, I'm sure it has many times, but once you lie about, it changes things

Because many of them have been followed up on and the culprits arrested - particularly in cases where homes and vehicles have been firebombed and Palestinians hospitalized with injuries and, reaction (here) to that is largely to justify it, excuse it.

Let me put it to you another way. Consider this article: IDF: Soldiers lied during questioning over wrongful shooting of Palestinian Israel News | Haaretz

Would it be reasonable to conclude from this that IDF solders routinely do these things and ask - why should we believe them when Palestinian civilians get shot?

Ever heard of 'professional ethics'? Soldiers *DO* have them, are expected to - and the IDF, very like the US military, is trained and educated on such issues. As are police forces....

So NO, it wouldn't be reasonable. Because even if one 'hates' that there is such a thing as a military - its members DO have an ethical standard to which they are BY LAW obligated to conform.

The 'civilians', OTOH, have no such explicit ethical requirement. We need look no further than the lynch mob murders of two Israeli off-duty reservists who got lost in Ramallah...... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching Go look at the photo: that is blood on his hands as he acknowledges the cheers from the crowd below - where he threw the body for them to abuse it themselves.

I mentioned 'police': they were *in police custody inside a police station* when the mob entered, beat them and literally tore pieces off their bodies.

At least poor Leo Frank got to have a trial - farce though it was! - before he was declared guilty The Trial of Leo Frank: An Account

 

[GHook93]

That in no way diminishes or excuses the very real price tag violence.

Of course there is! You just did it by claiming it is real when it's another hoax by the Arabs!

 

[Coyote]

I refuse to consider graffitti as "crime", as I said before. I do reject any kind of actual physical violence on innocent people.

"Price tag" as itself is anything but terrorism or crime. As a matter of fact, this method originated at the 60's and 70's of the past century. Unit funded by Ariel Sharon, called the 101 unit, was the one to initiate the "price tag". Arab terrorists known as the Fadayun would hurt and kill innocent Jews and civilians.

The 101 unit will find them, burn down their houses and destroy their property. The idea was to hurt them and them alone. Nobody in those years considered that as "terrorism", it was a war, they hurt us? we hurt them.

Price tag of today, I'm talking about the more drastic cases, not the cartoon kids, are condemned because they aren't targeted on the terrorists themselves, since it's at times impossible to track them, so what the settlers do is spread the rage on any palestinian they find.

That is no better than what they do to us, and that I highly condemn.

For the record, Israel is not a victim. Israel is a strong nation, established upon the idea of never being a victim ever again.

This is a war of surviving, and we have much more to lose than the Arabs.

That's how I see it, anyway

Well said....also, I did not know the history of Price Tag (or that it had such a long history)

Though, I do not agree with grafitti not being a crime. Not when it's designed to spread, hate, intimidation and fear on innocent people. In the US, grafitti was a weapon used against blacks during the civil right era to shut down their voices, intimidate them from voting, force them to move. It was used by anti-semites on Jewish synagogues along with other vandalization of sacred spaces. The intent? Send a message - we want you out and you will never be safe here. How is that not a crime? Sure, it is not in the same league as distruction of physical life, but not a crime? I think it depends on intent and what is the intent of today's Price Taggers? I think it's hate.

 

[Coyote]

That in no way diminishes or excuses the very real price tag violence.

Of course there is! You just did it by claiming it is real when it's another hoax by the Arabs!

Did you really just say that? Are you claiming that is the only incidence of Price Tag attacks on record? Or, do you have trouble reading what I wrote

 

[toastman]

That in no way diminishes or excuses the very real price tag violence.

Why should we believe Palestinians accusations of price tag attacks that were committed by Jews to be factual, if they have just been caught lying ? (this is not the first time BTW)
I'm not suggesting that it's never happened, I'm sure it has many times, but once you lie about, it changes things

Because many of them have been followed up on and the culprits arrested - particularly in cases where homes and vehicles have been firebombed and Palestinians hospitalized with injuries and, reaction (here) to that is largely to justify it, excuse it.

Let me put it to you another way. Consider this article: IDF: Soldiers lied during questioning over wrongful shooting of Palestinian Israel News | Haaretz

Would it be reasonable to conclude from this that IDF solders routinely do these things and ask - why should we believe them when Palestinian civilians get shot?

Simple, because IDF soldiers don't shoot themselves and blame it on Arab terrorists. Also, at least they admitted they lied, which is not the case with Palestinians in this case. You are trying to compare two very different incidents and aftermaths.


As for the bold, I think you need to re-read my post, as you may have missed the part where I acknowledged that Israelis have committed many price tag attacks in Judea and Samaria

 

[Coyote]

Why should we believe Palestinians accusations of price tag attacks that were committed by Jews to be factual, if they have just been caught lying ? (this is not the first time BTW)
I'm not suggesting that it's never happened, I'm sure it has many times, but once you lie about, it changes things

Because many of them have been followed up on and the culprits arrested - particularly in cases where homes and vehicles have been firebombed and Palestinians hospitalized with injuries and, reaction (here) to that is largely to justify it, excuse it.

Let me put it to you another way. Consider this article: IDF: Soldiers lied during questioning over wrongful shooting of Palestinian Israel News | Haaretz

Would it be reasonable to conclude from this that IDF solders routinely do these things and ask - why should we believe them when Palestinian civilians get shot?

Ever heard of 'professional ethics'? Soldiers *DO* have them, are expected to - and the IDF, very like the US military, is trained and educated on such issues. As are police forces....

So NO, it wouldn't be reasonable. Because even if one 'hates' that there is such a thing as a military - its members DO have an ethical standard to which they are BY LAW obligated to conform.

The 'civilians', OTOH, have no such explicit ethical requirement. We need look no further than the lynch mob murders of two Israeli off-duty reservists who got lost in Ramallah...... 2000 Ramallah lynching - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Go look at the photo: that is blood on his hands as he acknowledges the cheers from the crowd below - where he threw the body for them to abuse it themselves.

I mentioned 'police': they were *in police custody inside a police station* when the mob entered, beat them and literally tore pieces off their bodies.

At least they were hunted down and prosecuted.

And I agree with regards to codes of conduct in the professional services. They are far more answerable to justice than civilian mobs. I think this is evident in several recent US cases where military members have committed crimes against civilians.

But even with that - there can be cover up and complicity from higher authorities - and no group is immune.

At least poor Leo Frank got to have a trial - farce though it was! - before he was declared guilty The Trial of Leo Frank: An Account

Justice is very easily perverted.

 

[Coyote]

Why should we believe Palestinians accusations of price tag attacks that were committed by Jews to be factual, if they have just been caught lying ? (this is not the first time BTW)
I'm not suggesting that it's never happened, I'm sure it has many times, but once you lie about, it changes things

Because many of them have been followed up on and the culprits arrested - particularly in cases where homes and vehicles have been firebombed and Palestinians hospitalized with injuries and, reaction (here) to that is largely to justify it, excuse it.

Let me put it to you another way. Consider this article: IDF: Soldiers lied during questioning over wrongful shooting of Palestinian Israel News | Haaretz

Would it be reasonable to conclude from this that IDF solders routinely do these things and ask - why should we believe them when Palestinian civilians get shot?

Simple, because IDF soldiers don't shoot themselves and blame it on Arab terrorists. Also, at least they admitted they lied, which is not the case with Palestinians in this case. You are trying to compare two very different incidents and aftermaths.


As for the bold, I think you need to re-read my post, as you may have missed the part where I acknowledged that Israelis have committed many price tag attacks in Judea and Samaria

You and Marge are right - using IDF as a case, was not a good comparison - touche