Palestinians want more then the " 67 borders"

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Sometimes I have to laugh.

Lebanon and Jordan were not mentioned either.

Syria and Iraq were only mentioned because they bordered on Turkey.



The provisions in the treaty were general and applied to everyone without listing them all separately.

So your statement is completely irrelevant.

(COMMENT)

Again you have your timeline fouled-up.

Lebanon [22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)] and Jordan [25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)] were not mentioned because they were carve-outs created after the 1924 Treaty of Lausanne. In the Ottoman Empire, there were only "States" (in the Middle East: Syria and Mesopotamia/Iraq) and administrative districts of which Palestine was undefined. The Allied Powers did not particularly care, as the entire landscape was already covered by Mandates put in place years before. In this regard, the intention of the construction of the Treaty, which covered much more than just this one small sector, was to not tamper with the ongoing Mandates originally agreed to in the Sykes-Picot Agreement.

Not true. Palestine's international borders were defined before the Treaty of Lausanne.

With Syria and Lebanon - 1920
With transjordan - 1922
With Egypt - The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was maintained as the border between Egypt and Palestine.

The particular verbiage and legal language used in this case - all came from the same source (the Allied Powers).

The KEY PHRASE in all this is "nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred." In the case of "Palestine" [(remembering it is the Mandate of Palestine)*(within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers)] the territory was transferred to the Mandate.

Not true. The mandate (Britain) never took possession of Palestinian territory. It remained Palestine.

It should also be remembered that the very same Principal Allied Powers wrote all the major documents we are using as references. They did not write them to conflict.

Most Respectfully,
R

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG as at no time is Palestine or its borders mentioned so the treaty of Lausanne does not define its borders. In fact it leaves them open ended deliberately. Yes it defines the borders of Egypt, trans Jordan, Syria and Lebanon as they were already transferred to arabs under the government of Britain, France and Russia as detailed in the mandate.

Britain took control of Palestine which is why the inhabitants were issued with British passports.

And the UN had this to say about the passports

Issued by the High Commissioner for Palestine, these passports became invalid with the termination of the British mandate on 15 May 1948.[2] Even so, in the early 1950s, United Nations officials described the "worn dog-eared Palestine passport issued in Mandate days by a government that no longer legally exists" as "mementos of identity that were treasured by refugees".[3]

Proving that Britain did take control of the land under the Mandate.


Another massive fail by you because you are fixated on proving Palestine had an identity before 1988.

 

[Phoenall]

Of course it does, shit for brains. the ******* dogs that are called Palestinians want anyone that isn't a mudslime to leave or die! They simply don't have enough land to let others alone?

You are such a ******* liar!

They're a population under occupation by a foreign force.

The only thing they can do, is what the Israeli's let them do.

And all legal under the Geneva conventions which you have been shown. Are you that pig headed that you don't want to abide by INTERNATIONAL LAW

 

[Phoenall]

If that is all they wanted they should apply the Oslo accords and stop all belligerence.

Israel didn't live up to their part of that agreement and therefore, was in breech of it, thereby making it "null and void".

But they have stated that they want every Jew in Palestine dead and the land of Israel to be theirs. Enshrined in their charters.

Who is "they", specifically?

Yes they did as they withdrew from gaza which was the first part of the Oslo Accords

The Gaza–Jericho Agreement or Cairo Agreement (1994). Partial Israeli withdrawal within three weeks from Gaza Strip and Jericho area, being the start of the five-year transitional period (Article V of Oslo I). Simultaneously transfer of limited power to the Palestinian Authority (PA), which was established in the same agreement.[4] Part of the Agreement was the Protocol on Economic Relations (Paris Protocol), which regulates the economic relationship between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, but in effect integrated the Palestinian economy into the Israeli one.[8] This agreement was superseded by the Oslo II Accord, except for Article XX (Confidence-Building Measures). Article XX dictated the release or turn over of Palestinian detainees and prisoners by Israel.

Then this part that you find so hard to deal with, yet the Palestinians agreed to it.

The Oslo II Accord (1995). Division of the West Bank into Areas, in effect fragmenting it into numerous enclaves and banning the Palestinians from some 60% of the West Bank. Redeployment of Israeli troops from Area A and from other areas through "Further Redeployments". Election of the Palestinian Legislative Council (Palestinian parlement, PLC), replacing the PA upon its inauguration. Deployment of Palestinian Police replacing Israeli military forces in Area A. Safe passage between West Bank and Gaza. Most importantly, start of negotiations on a final settlement of remaining issues, to be concluded before 4 May 1999.


Guess your ANTI SEMITIC NAZI JEW HATRED is getting in the way of your intelligence.

 

[Phoenall]

Some of them do . But Hamas, Islamic Jihad, other smaller Jihad groups and every other extremist Palestinian dont wang a peace deal with Israel. They want all the pand between the river and the sea. In fact, Hamas confired their position again yesterday.

Then where's the link?

Arab league charter

Hamas charter

Fatah charter

PLO charter all say the same thing

 

[Phoenall]

Then where's the link?

I cant tell if you're serious or not??

Hamas has said MANY MANY times they are against a peace deal with Israel. Im on my phone I cant post links. Hopefully my buddies here will do it for me. Orrr you could look it up yourself?
It's in their charter for Christ sakes!

That is true. Hamas does not want any part of a fake peace deal.

They don't want any part of peace unless it is on their terms.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one at a time.

Not true. Palestine's international borders were defined before the Treaty of Lausanne.

With Syria and Lebanon - 1920
With transjordan - 1922
With Egypt - The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was maintained as the border between Egypt and Palestine.

(COMMENT)

The Treaty of Lausanne does not define Palestine. All I can do is encourage to actually read it. In fact, Palestine (the word) is never used once in the Treaty to describe anything. Palestine was defined by Mandate and the Allied Powers. And in fact, a Map enclosure to the Treaty so stipulates that Palestine is a lesser included portion of a larger Mandate.

The Allied Powers defined Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt. They were all protectorates (Egypt twice - then the Sudan was carved-out) at one time --- until:

• The modern Syrian state was established after the first World War as a French mandate, and represented the largest Arab state to emerge from the formerly Ottoman-ruled Arab Levant. It gained independence in April 1946, as a parliamentary republic.

• The region eventually came under the rule of the Ottoman Empire, a political empire that which came to power from 1299-1923. Following the collapse of the Empire after World War I, the five provinces that constitute modern Lebanon were mandated to France. The French expanded the borders of Mount Lebanon, which was mostly populated by Maronites and Druze, to include more Muslims. Lebanon gained independence in 1943, establishing a unique political system – "confessionalism" – that is a power-sharing mechanism based on religious communities.

• The kingdom emerged from the post-World War I division of West Asia by Britain and France. In 1946, Jordan became an independent sovereign state officially known as the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan. After capturing the West Bank during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Abdullah I took the title King of Jordan and Palestine. The name of the state was changed to The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 1 December 1948.

• In 1914, the Protectorate was made official, and the title of the head of state was changed to sultan, to repudiate the vestigial suzerainty of the Ottoman sultan, who was backing the Central powers in World War I. Abbas II was deposed as khedive and replaced by his uncle, Hussein Kamel, as sultan.
  
  After the First World War, Saad Zaghlul and the Wafd Party led the Egyptian nationalist movement to a majority at the local Legislative Assembly. When the British exiled Zaghlul and his associates to Malta on 8 March 1919, the country arose in its first modern revolution. The revolt led the UK government to issue a unilateral declaration of Egypt's independence on 22 February 1922.
  
  The new government drafted and implemented a constitution in 1923 based on a parliamentary system. Saad Zaghlul was popularly elected as Prime Minister of Egypt in 1924. In 1936, the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty was concluded. Continued instability due to remaining British influence and increasing political involvement by the king led to the dissolution of the parliament in a military coup d'état known as the 1952 Revolution. The Free Officers Movement forced King Farouk to abdicate in support of his son Fuad. British military presence in Egypt lasted until 1954.

(COMMENT)

The Mandate and the Allied Powers took control of Palestine.



Your use of the word "possession" is inconsistent with any point I may have made. Further, I'm not sure your point or distinction. If you mean by "possession" that it militarily occupied --- "A Military Administration was established to govern Palestine with the first interim report coving the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.

BUT, once again, I must remind you that Palestine (Mandate of) was defined by the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your use of the word "possession" is inconsistent with any point I may have made.

I don't know why that term is confusing to you. Was Palestine Palestinian land or British land?

It was mandated British land under their control militarily and governmental until such time as the inhabitants could show free determination and the ability to govern themselves. The mandate/possession of the land by Britain ceased on May 14 1948 when it was taken up by the UN. The land became Israeli in part on May 14 1948 and UN mandated until 1988 when the P.A. declared independence on an undefined portion of the land.

So why are you so confused over land ownership when the details are all on the internet.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again: Yes!

I don't know why that term is confusing to you. Was Palestine Palestinian land or British land?

(COMMENT)

It was initially enemy occupied territory, later placed under a Mandate by the Allied Powers, and transitioned to Civil Administration before a UK High Commissioner.

That status didn't change until 1948.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but that did not answer my question.

I think it did as it says the land was under British governorship

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one at a time.


(COMMENT)

The Treaty of Lausanne does not define Palestine. All I can do is encourage to actually read it. In fact, Palestine (the word) is never used once in the Treaty to describe anything. Palestine was defined by Mandate and the Allied Powers. And in fact, a Map enclosure to the Treaty so stipulates that Palestine is a lesser included portion of a larger Mandate.

The Allied Powers defined Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt. They were all protectorates (Egypt twice - then the Sudan was carved-out) at one time --- until:

• The modern Syrian state was established after the first World War as a French mandate, and represented the largest Arab state to emerge from the formerly Ottoman-ruled Arab Levant. It gained independence in April 1946, as a parliamentary republic.

• The region eventually came under the rule of the Ottoman Empire, a political empire that which came to power from 1299-1923. Following the collapse of the Empire after World War I, the five provinces that constitute modern Lebanon were mandated to France. The French expanded the borders of Mount Lebanon, which was mostly populated by Maronites and Druze, to include more Muslims. Lebanon gained independence in 1943, establishing a unique political system – "confessionalism" – that is a power-sharing mechanism based on religious communities.

• The kingdom emerged from the post-World War I division of West Asia by Britain and France. In 1946, Jordan became an independent sovereign state officially known as the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan. After capturing the West Bank during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Abdullah I took the title King of Jordan and Palestine. The name of the state was changed to The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 1 December 1948.

• In 1914, the Protectorate was made official, and the title of the head of state was changed to sultan, to repudiate the vestigial suzerainty of the Ottoman sultan, who was backing the Central powers in World War I. Abbas II was deposed as khedive and replaced by his uncle, Hussein Kamel, as sultan.
  
  After the First World War, Saad Zaghlul and the Wafd Party led the Egyptian nationalist movement to a majority at the local Legislative Assembly. When the British exiled Zaghlul and his associates to Malta on 8 March 1919, the country arose in its first modern revolution. The revolt led the UK government to issue a unilateral declaration of Egypt's independence on 22 February 1922.
  
  The new government drafted and implemented a constitution in 1923 based on a parliamentary system. Saad Zaghlul was popularly elected as Prime Minister of Egypt in 1924. In 1936, the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty was concluded. Continued instability due to remaining British influence and increasing political involvement by the king led to the dissolution of the parliament in a military coup d'état known as the 1952 Revolution. The Free Officers Movement forced King Farouk to abdicate in support of his son Fuad. British military presence in Egypt lasted until 1954.

(COMMENT)

The Mandate and the Allied Powers took control of Palestine.



Your use of the word "possession" is inconsistent with any point I may have made. Further, I'm not sure your point or distinction. If you mean by "possession" that it militarily occupied --- "A Military Administration was established to govern Palestine with the first interim report coving the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.

BUT, once again, I must remind you that Palestine (Mandate of) was defined by the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your use of the word "possession" is inconsistent with any point I may have made.

I don't know why that term is confusing to you. Was Palestine Palestinian land or British land?

It was mandated British land under their control militarily and governmental until such time as the inhabitants could show free determination and the ability to govern themselves. The mandate/possession of the land by Britain ceased on May 14 1948 when it was taken up by the UN. The land became Israeli in part on May 14 1948 and UN mandated until 1988 when the P.A. declared independence on an undefined portion of the land.

So why are you so confused over land ownership when the details are all on the internet.

The word "control" is regularly used in reference to Palestine. Control denotes occupation not possession.

Britain controlled Palestine but Palestine never became British territory.

 

[toastman]

I don't know why that term is confusing to you. Was Palestine Palestinian land or British land?

It was mandated British land under their control militarily and governmental until such time as the inhabitants could show free determination and the ability to govern themselves. The mandate/possession of the land by Britain ceased on May 14 1948 when it was taken up by the UN. The land became Israeli in part on May 14 1948 and UN mandated until 1988 when the P.A. declared independence on an undefined portion of the land.

So why are you so confused over land ownership when the details are all on the internet.

The word "control" is regularly used in reference to Palestine. Control denotes occupation not possession.

Britain controlled Palestine but Palestine never became British territory.

Why do you make up this crap when Rocco has explained it to you so many times?? Give it up already!

 

[P F Tinmore]

It was mandated British land under their control militarily and governmental until such time as the inhabitants could show free determination and the ability to govern themselves. The mandate/possession of the land by Britain ceased on May 14 1948 when it was taken up by the UN. The land became Israeli in part on May 14 1948 and UN mandated until 1988 when the P.A. declared independence on an undefined portion of the land.

So why are you so confused over land ownership when the details are all on the internet.

The word "control" is regularly used in reference to Palestine. Control denotes occupation not possession.

Britain controlled Palestine but Palestine never became British territory.

Why do you make up this crap when Rocco has explained it to you so many times?? Give it up already!

Rocco used the term control.

Perhaps you should ask him what he meant by that.

 

[High_Gravity]

Palestinians Want an Even Bigger State Than the 1967 Borders | TheBlaze.com




Palestinians Want an Even Bigger State Than the 1967 Borders


Sep. 27, 2011 12:46am Sharona Schwartz



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When the Palestinians presented their bid for statehood at the UN Friday, most news outlets suggested Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was aiming for a state based on 1967 borders covering only the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem.

A closer look at the actual letter he presented to UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon applying for UN membership reveals the Palestinians are aiming for far more territory.

As reprinted in the Telegraph, Abbas’s letter reads:


“This application for membership is being submitted on the Palestinian people’s natural, legal and historic rights and based on United Nations General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947 as well as the Declaration of Independence of the State of Palestine of 15 November 1988 and the acknowledgement by the General Assembly of this declaration in resolution 43/177 of 15 December 1988.”

Lots of dates are cited here. Let’s take a closer look. Abbas says his people’s “rights” are based on the 1947 UN Resolution. That year refers to the UN Partition Plan, the same plan all Arab states rejected and the Jews accepted for their homeland, after which those Arab neighbors declared war on Israel.

These maps from GBTV reveal the land allotted to the Jewish State under the 1947 Partition Plan was in fact much smaller than that afforded under 1967 borders.


Palestinians Want Even Bigger State Than 1967 Borders

Palestinians Want Even Bigger State Than 1967 Borders

Though President Obama has endorsed Palestinian demands — stated until now — that their future state be based on 1967 borders, Israel says borders should be based on the outcome of negotiations. If Abbas’s proposal is accepted by the UN Security Council, gone from Israel is Jerusalem its capital and home to the sites most sacred to Jews and Christians. Also gone: Ben Gurion Airport just outside Tel Aviv, the country’s only major international airport.



.
The blog Israel Matzav explains the significance:


“It would mean no Jerusalem and no airport. Even more indefensible borders than the 1949 armistice lines. The ‘Palestinians’ ignore Security Council Resolution 242, which requires that Israel be left with ‘defensible borders’ and says nothing about a ‘Palestinian state.’”

There are other alarming suggestions the Palestinians are not being upfront in stating their intentions regarding the size of the state they aim for.One of the sticking points in restarting negotiations with Israel is the Palestinians’ continued opposition to recognizing Israel as a Jewish State. In fact, last week a round of talks aimed at restarting peace negotiations broke up over “Abbas’ refusal to recognize Israel as a Jewish State.”

Secondly, the Palestine Liberation Organization’s current logo on its UN Observer Mission website suggests it wants the entire state of Israel incorporated into its future state – not just the West Bank and Gaza. The map on the logo appears to suggest the goal is to wipe Israel completely off the map. The Weekly Standard posted this:


They are not going to get any of it

Well they want all of Israel for themselves, and to kill all the Jews.

 

[RoccoR]

[MENTION=26153]High_Gravity[/MENTION], et al,

WoW! A man of few words.

Well they want all of Israel for themselves, and to kill all the Jews.

(COMMENT)

Don't hold anything back now! ---- Tell me what you really think!

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[High_Gravity]

[MENTION=26153]High_Gravity[/MENTION], et al,

WoW! A man of few words.

Well they want all of Israel for themselves, and to kill all the Jews.

(COMMENT)

Don't hold anything back now! ---- Tell me what you really think!

Most Respectfully,
R

Well, its true. No Arab country even allows Jews to live there, and we expect the Palestinians to go against the grain?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

[MENTION=26153]High_Gravity[/MENTION], et al,

WoW! A man of few words.

Well they want all of Israel for themselves, and to kill all the Jews.

(COMMENT)

Don't hold anything back now! ---- Tell me what you really think!

Most Respectfully,
R

Well, its true. No Arab country even allows Jews to live there, and we expect the Palestinians to go against the grain?

I know that Jews cannot live in Saudi Arabia and Jordan. That's for sure.

 

[Phoenall]

I don't know why that term is confusing to you. Was Palestine Palestinian land or British land?

It was mandated British land under their control militarily and governmental until such time as the inhabitants could show free determination and the ability to govern themselves. The mandate/possession of the land by Britain ceased on May 14 1948 when it was taken up by the UN. The land became Israeli in part on May 14 1948 and UN mandated until 1988 when the P.A. declared independence on an undefined portion of the land.

So why are you so confused over land ownership when the details are all on the internet.

The word "control" is regularly used in reference to Palestine. Control denotes occupation not possession.

Britain controlled Palestine but Palestine never became British territory.

YES IT DID and this is shown in the fact the passports issued all bore the title British Subject. So how could Britain issue passports for a territory it had no governance over.

You really do shoot yourself in the foot sometimes when you don't think about your posts clearly enough. Under the mandate of Palestine Britain took on the administrative and legal government of the land of Palestine ( including trans Jordan ) until it relinquished this control to the UN in may 1948.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It was mandated British land under their control militarily and governmental until such time as the inhabitants could show free determination and the ability to govern themselves. The mandate/possession of the land by Britain ceased on May 14 1948 when it was taken up by the UN. The land became Israeli in part on May 14 1948 and UN mandated until 1988 when the P.A. declared independence on an undefined portion of the land.

So why are you so confused over land ownership when the details are all on the internet.

The word "control" is regularly used in reference to Palestine. Control denotes occupation not possession.

Britain controlled Palestine but Palestine never became British territory.

YES IT DID and this is shown in the fact the passports issued all bore the title British Subject. So how could Britain issue passports for a territory it had no governance over.

You really do shoot yourself in the foot sometimes when you don't think about your posts clearly enough. Under the mandate of Palestine Britain took on the administrative and legal government of the land of Palestine ( including trans Jordan ) until it relinquished this control to the UN in may 1948.

There is that "control" word again. You keep confusing control with possession.

Palestine never became British territory.

 

[High_Gravity]

[MENTION=26153]High_Gravity[/MENTION], et al,

WoW! A man of few words.


(COMMENT)

Don't hold anything back now! ---- Tell me what you really think!

Most Respectfully,
R

Well, its true. No Arab country even allows Jews to live there, and we expect the Palestinians to go against the grain?

I know that Jews cannot live in Saudi Arabia and Jordan. That's for sure.

Kuwait, Syria, Lebanon, Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen etc etc its all the same story.

 

[Phoenall]

The word "control" is regularly used in reference to Palestine. Control denotes occupation not possession.

Britain controlled Palestine but Palestine never became British territory.

YES IT DID and this is shown in the fact the passports issued all bore the title British Subject. So how could Britain issue passports for a territory it had no governance over.

You really do shoot yourself in the foot sometimes when you don't think about your posts clearly enough. Under the mandate of Palestine Britain took on the administrative and legal government of the land of Palestine ( including trans Jordan ) until it relinquished this control to the UN in may 1948.

There is that "control" word again. You keep confusing control with possession.

Palestine never became British territory.

Prove it using the mandate of Palestine then as that clearly says that Britain governed Palestine and issued passports.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Well, its true. No Arab country even allows Jews to live there, and we expect the Palestinians to go against the grain?

I know that Jews cannot live in Saudi Arabia and Jordan. That's for sure.

Kuwait, Syria, Lebanon, Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen etc etc its all the same story.

Yet all nationalities and all religions are welcome to live in Israel.

 

[toastman]

The word "control" is regularly used in reference to Palestine. Control denotes occupation not possession.

Britain controlled Palestine but Palestine never became British territory.

YES IT DID and this is shown in the fact the passports issued all bore the title British Subject. So how could Britain issue passports for a territory it had no governance over.

You really do shoot yourself in the foot sometimes when you don't think about your posts clearly enough. Under the mandate of Palestine Britain took on the administrative and legal government of the land of Palestine ( including trans Jordan ) until it relinquished this control to the UN in may 1948.

There is that "control" word again. You keep confusing control with possession.

Palestine never became British territory.

But Palestine had no defined territory when the British beat the Ottomans in WW1.