Palestinians want more then the " 67 borders"

[toastman]

At no time does the treaty of Lausanne mention Palestine, so this means that Palestine is not covered. The part that is article 30 does not say Palestine but in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred. Which means the mandated power that holds the land until such time as the inhabitants can show they are able to govern themselves. The case of Palestine was detailed in the San Remo conference which became International Law.



Here is the full Treaty of Lausanne for you to read

Treaty of Lausanne - World War I Document Archive

Wow, this 1924 Treaty that Tinmore keeps touting doesn't even mention Palestine. I feel like such an idiot for believing him.

Lebanon and Jordan were not mentioned either.

Syria and Iraq were only mentioned because they bordered on Turkey.

SECTION II .
NATIONALITY.
ARTICLE 30.

Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipsofacto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.

The provisions in the treaty were general and applied to everyone without listing them all separately.

So your statement is completely irrelevant.

First Comment is a deflection

And yes, his statement is relevant
Your interpretation of the Treaty is irrelevant because it is false.
You failed to prove that its about Palestine and Palestinians

 

[Billo_Really]

Of course it does, shit for brains. the ******* dogs that are called Palestinians want anyone that isn't a mudslime to leave or die! They simply don't have enough land to let others alone?

You are such a ******* liar!

They're a population under occupation by a foreign force.

The only thing they can do, is what the Israeli's let them do.

 

[Billo_Really]

If that is all they wanted they should apply the Oslo accords and stop all belligerence.

Israel didn't live up to their part of that agreement and therefore, was in breech of it, thereby making it "null and void".

But they have stated that they want every Jew in Palestine dead and the land of Israel to be theirs. Enshrined in their charters.

Who is "they", specifically?

 

[Billo_Really]

Some of them do . But Hamas, Islamic Jihad, other smaller Jihad groups and every other extremist Palestinian dont wang a peace deal with Israel. They want all the pand between the river and the sea. In fact, Hamas confired their position again yesterday.

Then where's the link?

 

[Indeependent]

If that is all they wanted they should apply the Oslo accords and stop all belligerence.

Israel didn't live up to their part of that agreement and therefore, was in breech of it, thereby making it "null and void".

But they have stated that they want every Jew in Palestine dead and the land of Israel to be theirs. Enshrined in their charters.

Who is "they", specifically?

I really wish you would tell you fan club to slowdown their postings so we can respond.
Oh...you don't have a fan club.

 

[toastman]

Of course it does, shit for brains. the ******* dogs that are called Palestinians want anyone that isn't a mudslime to leave or die! They simply don't have enough land to let others alone?

You are such a ******* liar!

They're a population under occupation by a foreign force.

The only thing they can do, is what the Israeli's let them do.

Boo hoo! Want a tissue for your tears you fuckin child?

Go complain to Jordan for joining the war. Israel captured the WB from Jordan, not the Palestinians. You know it was t Palestinian sovereign land until 1988 right
No , probably not

 

[toastman]

Some of them do . But Hamas, Islamic Jihad, other smaller Jihad groups and every other extremist Palestinian dont wang a peace deal with Israel. They want all the pand between the river and the sea. In fact, Hamas confired their position again yesterday.

Then where's the link?

I cant tell if you're serious or not??

Hamas has said MANY MANY times they are against a peace deal with Israel. Im on my phone I cant post links. Hopefully my buddies here will do it for me. Orrr you could look it up yourself?
It's in their charter for Christ sakes!

 

[P F Tinmore]

Some of them do . But Hamas, Islamic Jihad, other smaller Jihad groups and every other extremist Palestinian dont wang a peace deal with Israel. They want all the pand between the river and the sea. In fact, Hamas confired their position again yesterday.

Then where's the link?

I cant tell if you're serious or not??

Hamas has said MANY MANY times they are against a peace deal with Israel. Im on my phone I cant post links. Hopefully my buddies here will do it for me. Orrr you could look it up yourself?
It's in their charter for Christ sakes!

That is true. Hamas does not want any part of a fake peace deal.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one at a time.

Not true. Palestine's international borders were defined before the Treaty of Lausanne.

With Syria and Lebanon - 1920
With transjordan - 1922
With Egypt - The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was maintained as the border between Egypt and Palestine.

(COMMENT)

The Treaty of Lausanne does not define Palestine. All I can do is encourage to actually read it. In fact, Palestine (the word) is never used once in the Treaty to describe anything. Palestine was defined by Mandate and the Allied Powers. And in fact, a Map enclosure to the Treaty so stipulates that Palestine is a lesser included portion of a larger Mandate.

The Allied Powers defined Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt. They were all protectorates (Egypt twice - then the Sudan was carved-out) at one time --- until:

• The modern Syrian state was established after the first World War as a French mandate, and represented the largest Arab state to emerge from the formerly Ottoman-ruled Arab Levant. It gained independence in April 1946, as a parliamentary republic.

• The region eventually came under the rule of the Ottoman Empire, a political empire that which came to power from 1299-1923. Following the collapse of the Empire after World War I, the five provinces that constitute modern Lebanon were mandated to France. The French expanded the borders of Mount Lebanon, which was mostly populated by Maronites and Druze, to include more Muslims. Lebanon gained independence in 1943, establishing a unique political system – "confessionalism" – that is a power-sharing mechanism based on religious communities.

• The kingdom emerged from the post-World War I division of West Asia by Britain and France. In 1946, Jordan became an independent sovereign state officially known as the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan. After capturing the West Bank during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Abdullah I took the title King of Jordan and Palestine. The name of the state was changed to The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 1 December 1948.

• In 1914, the Protectorate was made official, and the title of the head of state was changed to sultan, to repudiate the vestigial suzerainty of the Ottoman sultan, who was backing the Central powers in World War I. Abbas II was deposed as khedive and replaced by his uncle, Hussein Kamel, as sultan.
  
  After the First World War, Saad Zaghlul and the Wafd Party led the Egyptian nationalist movement to a majority at the local Legislative Assembly. When the British exiled Zaghlul and his associates to Malta on 8 March 1919, the country arose in its first modern revolution. The revolt led the UK government to issue a unilateral declaration of Egypt's independence on 22 February 1922.
  
  The new government drafted and implemented a constitution in 1923 based on a parliamentary system. Saad Zaghlul was popularly elected as Prime Minister of Egypt in 1924. In 1936, the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty was concluded. Continued instability due to remaining British influence and increasing political involvement by the king led to the dissolution of the parliament in a military coup d'état known as the 1952 Revolution. The Free Officers Movement forced King Farouk to abdicate in support of his son Fuad. British military presence in Egypt lasted until 1954.

Not true. The mandate (Britain) never took possession of Palestinian territory. It remained Palestine.

(COMMENT)

The Mandate and the Allied Powers took control of Palestine.

1. The territory now known as Palestine formed part of the Ottoman empire until it was occupied, in 1917-19, by British forces under the command of General Allenby. A military administration, under the title of Occupied Enemy Territory Administration, was established with headquarters in Jerusalem at the end of 1917.

2. It was decided at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919 that the mandates system, outlined in article 22 of the covenant of the League of Nations should be applied to the non-Turkish portions of the Ottoman Empire. The Mandate for Palestine was assigned to the United Kingdom by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Reno on the 25th April, 1920. Shortly afterwards, on the 1st July, 1920, the military regime was replaced by a civil administration under a High Commission. The northern frontier of Palestine was determined in accordance with an Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its eastern frontier by virtue of the recognition, in 1923, of the existence of an independent Government in Transjordan.

SOURCE: A/AC.14/8 2 October 1947

Your use of the word "possession" is inconsistent with any point I may have made. Further, I'm not sure your point or distinction. If you mean by "possession" that it militarily occupied --- "A Military Administration was established to govern Palestine with the first interim report coving the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.

BUT, once again, I must remind you that Palestine (Mandate of) was defined by the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MJB12741]

Does anyone but terrorists & their supporters really care what Hamas wants?



QUOTE=P F Tinmore;8771026]

Then where's the link?

I cant tell if you're serious or not??

Hamas has said MANY MANY times they are against a peace deal with Israel. Im on my phone I cant post links. Hopefully my buddies here will do it for me. Orrr you could look it up yourself?
It's in their charter for Christ sakes!

That is true. Hamas does not want any part of a fake peace deal.[/QUOTE]

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, one at a time.

Not true. Palestine's international borders were defined before the Treaty of Lausanne.

With Syria and Lebanon - 1920
With transjordan - 1922
With Egypt - The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was maintained as the border between Egypt and Palestine.

(COMMENT)

The Treaty of Lausanne does not define Palestine. All I can do is encourage to actually read it. In fact, Palestine (the word) is never used once in the Treaty to describe anything. Palestine was defined by Mandate and the Allied Powers. And in fact, a Map enclosure to the Treaty so stipulates that Palestine is a lesser included portion of a larger Mandate.

The Allied Powers defined Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt. They were all protectorates (Egypt twice - then the Sudan was carved-out) at one time --- until:

• The modern Syrian state was established after the first World War as a French mandate, and represented the largest Arab state to emerge from the formerly Ottoman-ruled Arab Levant. It gained independence in April 1946, as a parliamentary republic.

• The region eventually came under the rule of the Ottoman Empire, a political empire that which came to power from 1299-1923. Following the collapse of the Empire after World War I, the five provinces that constitute modern Lebanon were mandated to France. The French expanded the borders of Mount Lebanon, which was mostly populated by Maronites and Druze, to include more Muslims. Lebanon gained independence in 1943, establishing a unique political system – "confessionalism" – that is a power-sharing mechanism based on religious communities.

• The kingdom emerged from the post-World War I division of West Asia by Britain and France. In 1946, Jordan became an independent sovereign state officially known as the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan. After capturing the West Bank during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Abdullah I took the title King of Jordan and Palestine. The name of the state was changed to The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 1 December 1948.

• In 1914, the Protectorate was made official, and the title of the head of state was changed to sultan, to repudiate the vestigial suzerainty of the Ottoman sultan, who was backing the Central powers in World War I. Abbas II was deposed as khedive and replaced by his uncle, Hussein Kamel, as sultan.
  
  After the First World War, Saad Zaghlul and the Wafd Party led the Egyptian nationalist movement to a majority at the local Legislative Assembly. When the British exiled Zaghlul and his associates to Malta on 8 March 1919, the country arose in its first modern revolution. The revolt led the UK government to issue a unilateral declaration of Egypt's independence on 22 February 1922.
  
  The new government drafted and implemented a constitution in 1923 based on a parliamentary system. Saad Zaghlul was popularly elected as Prime Minister of Egypt in 1924. In 1936, the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty was concluded. Continued instability due to remaining British influence and increasing political involvement by the king led to the dissolution of the parliament in a military coup d'état known as the 1952 Revolution. The Free Officers Movement forced King Farouk to abdicate in support of his son Fuad. British military presence in Egypt lasted until 1954.

Not true. The mandate (Britain) never took possession of Palestinian territory. It remained Palestine.

(COMMENT)

The Mandate and the Allied Powers took control of Palestine.

1. The territory now known as Palestine formed part of the Ottoman empire until it was occupied, in 1917-19, by British forces under the command of General Allenby. A military administration, under the title of Occupied Enemy Territory Administration, was established with headquarters in Jerusalem at the end of 1917.

2. It was decided at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919 that the mandates system, outlined in article 22 of the covenant of the League of Nations should be applied to the non-Turkish portions of the Ottoman Empire. The Mandate for Palestine was assigned to the United Kingdom by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Reno on the 25th April, 1920. Shortly afterwards, on the 1st July, 1920, the military regime was replaced by a civil administration under a High Commission. The northern frontier of Palestine was determined in accordance with an Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its eastern frontier by virtue of the recognition, in 1923, of the existence of an independent Government in Transjordan.

SOURCE: A/AC.14/8 2 October 1947

Your use of the word "possession" is inconsistent with any point I may have made. Further, I'm not sure your point or distinction. If you mean by "possession" that it militarily occupied --- "A Military Administration was established to govern Palestine with the first interim report coving the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.

BUT, once again, I must remind you that Palestine (Mandate of) was defined by the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your use of the word "possession" is inconsistent with any point I may have made.

I don't know why that term is confusing to you. Was Palestine Palestinian land or British land?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again: Yes!

Your use of the word "possession" is inconsistent with any point I may have made.

I don't know why that term is confusing to you. Was Palestine Palestinian land or British land?

(COMMENT)

It was initially enemy occupied territory, later placed under a Mandate by the Allied Powers, and transitioned to Civil Administration before a UK High Commissioner.

That status didn't change until 1948.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again: Yes!

Your use of the word "possession" is inconsistent with any point I may have made.

I don't know why that term is confusing to you. Was Palestine Palestinian land or British land?

(COMMENT)

It was initially enemy occupied territory, later placed under a Mandate by the Allied Powers, and transitioned to Civil Administration before a UK High Commissioner.

That status didn't change until 1948.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but that did not answer my question.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It was not territory under the sovereignty of the Palestinians.

Again: Yes!

I don't know why that term is confusing to you. Was Palestine Palestinian land or British land?

(COMMENT)

It was initially enemy occupied territory, later placed under a Mandate by the Allied Powers, and transitioned to Civil Administration before a UK High Commissioner.

That status didn't change until 1948.

OK, but that did not answer my question.

(COMMENT)

This is another one of your questions were you give two choices, neither of which is correct.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

Then where's the link?

I cant tell if you're serious or not??

Hamas has said MANY MANY times they are against a peace deal with Israel. Im on my phone I cant post links. Hopefully my buddies here will do it for me. Orrr you could look it up yourself?
It's in their charter for Christ sakes!

That is true. Hamas does not want any part of a fake peace deal.

They want what does not belong to them

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again: Yes!

I don't know why that term is confusing to you. Was Palestine Palestinian land or British land?

(COMMENT)

It was initially enemy occupied territory, later placed under a Mandate by the Allied Powers, and transitioned to Civil Administration before a UK High Commissioner.

That status didn't change until 1948.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but that did not answer my question.

Yea he did. The problem is you asked a ridiculous question

 

[Phoenall]

Palestinians don't want '67 borders, they want the whole mandate, without any jews.

It's comments like that which shows the entire world the problem is not the Palestinian's, it's you fuckers!

The Palestinian's want the occupation to end and to be left alone.

That's it!

yep the paid zionist trolls are trolling the boards with their lies with threads like this as always.

Read their charters that have never been repealed that state the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the JEWS.

 

[Phoenall]

The status of Palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the Treaty of Lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the League of Nations, the British government pointed out: “The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in Aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine.”123 And, thereafter, “Palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124

Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​

Article 30 is of a great significance. It constituted a declaration of existing international law and the standard practice of states. This was despite the absence of a definite international law rule of state succession under which the nationals of predecessor state could ipso facto acquire the nationality of the successor.129 “As a rule, however, States have conferred their nationality on the former nationals of the predecessor State.”130 In practice, almost all peace treaties concluded between the Allies and other states at the end of World War I embodied nationality provisions similar to those of the Treaty of Lausanne. The inhabitants of Palestine, as the successors of this territory, henceforth acquired Palestinian nationality even if there was no treaty with Turkey.131

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

At no time does the treaty of Lausanne mention Palestine, so this means that Palestine is not covered. The part that is article 30 does not say Palestine but in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred. Which means the mandated power that holds the land until such time as the inhabitants can show they are able to govern themselves. The case of Palestine was detailed in the San Remo conference which became International Law.



Here is the full Treaty of Lausanne for you to read

Treaty of Lausanne - World War I Document Archive

Wow, this 1924 Treaty that Tinmore keeps touting doesn't even mention Palestine. I feel like such an idiot for believing him.

Not one of the many treaties that he uses state Palestine, and it was left out deliberately so that the Jews could have a homeland. The only reason that the UN partitioned Palestine was because the arab muslims threatened to wage war against the UN member states and stop their oil. The member states could not afford another major war right after WW2 so gave in to arab muslim demands.

 

[Phoenall]

At no time does the treaty of Lausanne mention Palestine, so this means that Palestine is not covered. The part that is article 30 does not say Palestine but in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred. Which means the mandated power that holds the land until such time as the inhabitants can show they are able to govern themselves. The case of Palestine was detailed in the San Remo conference which became International Law.



Here is the full Treaty of Lausanne for you to read

Treaty of Lausanne - World War I Document Archive

Wow, this 1924 Treaty that Tinmore keeps touting doesn't even mention Palestine. I feel like such an idiot for believing him.

Lebanon and Jordan were not mentioned either.

Syria and Iraq were only mentioned because they bordered on Turkey.

SECTION II .
NATIONALITY.
ARTICLE 30.

Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipsofacto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.

The provisions in the treaty were general and applied to everyone without listing them all separately.

So your statement is completely irrelevant.

Try again and this time expand on this part " nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred. " Now which state's did Palestine get transferred to under the mandate of Palestine ?

Was it Britain, France and Russia

Or was it Australia, America and Iceland

Or as you claim Palestine that did not exist as a state until 1988.

 

[mudwhistle]

Palestinians don't want '67 borders, they want the whole mandate, without any jews.

It's comments like that which shows the entire world the problem is not the Palestinian's, it's you fuckers!

The Palestinian's want the occupation to end and to be left alone.

That's it!

That and 13 million dead Jews.