Palestinians demand return of "their" heritage -- Dead Sea Scolls

[Eloy]

The ownership belongs to humanity and the Palestinians contest that Israel owns them.

The cultural artifacts of the Jewish people, written in Hebrew (the language of the Jewish people) and giving the narrative of the religious faith, histories, myths, legends of Jewish people are the cultural heritage of the Jewish people and as such must be under the guardianship and caretakership of the Jewish people.

Surely you don't pretend to suggest that the guardianship of Egyptian artifacts, say the Amarna Letters, should be under the caretakership of the Japanese, do you?

You are mistaken again; the Dead Sea Scrolls are still being studied and scholars have no definitive explanation of their origin. It was believed that they were the writings of a Jewish sect since some of the texts were from the Bible but there were other texts too. Naturally, modern Christian scholars see them as important for shedding light on their religion which has its roots in Judaism. So, to claim that they are the artifacts exclusively of modern Judaism is wrong as Christians have an equal claim on their significance for their culture and religion.

 

[aris2chat]

Cultural artifacts belong to the culture who created them. Jewish writings belong to the Jewish people. How is this even a question?

You are mistaken; cultural artifacts are often so important that they are recognized as belonging to all people and are held in trust as a world heritage. To make the false claim that the Dead Sea Scrolls belong only to Israelis is breathtakingly ignorant.

Just when did the Palestinians possess the Scrolls and why did they hide them in the first place?

The Scrolls were discovered in the modern Occupied West Bank of Palestine. It is for this reason that the Palestians have a claim on them returning to the area in which they were found. It is like the Greeks claiming the Parthenon Marbles which are in England. Why the Dead Sea Scrolls which date from the last three centuries BCE and the first century of the Common Era, were hidden is not known.

land that was jewish, written by jews for the jewish religion.

There is no land of palestine yet

Mandate was british, before that it was ottoman.

Let them try and take the copper scrolls if they want instead

Israel is not giving up the dead sea scrolls

No, the Scrolls were discovered when the Occupied West Bank was part of Jordan. The British Mandate did not extend to the Dead Sea.

Dead sea were discovered in spring of '47, before Jordan occupied the WB illegally.
Jordan could not care for them and they were nearly destroyed. Israel build a museum for their preservation and display.
Maybe they should have been left in Beirut instead.
No one else wanted to come up with the money to buy them except a jewish group.

Palestinians certainly did not seem to care about them back then

Now they think they have some claim?

They will stay with Israel, in the jewish state where they belong

 

[Eloy]

Just who ever was first? does that seem fair? would you accept that rule for your own religious artifacts?

Cultural artifacts belong to the culture who created them. Jewish writings belong to the Jewish people. How is this even a question?

You are mistaken; cultural artifacts are often so important that they are recognized as belonging to all people and are held in trust as a world heritage. To make the false claim that the Dead Sea Scrolls belong only to Israelis is breathtakingly ignorant.

Just when did the Palestinians possess the Scrolls and why did they hide them in the first place?

The Scrolls were discovered in the modern Occupied West Bank of Palestine. It is for this reason that the Palestians have a claim on them returning to the area in which they were found. It is like the Greeks claiming the Parthenon Marbles which are in England. Why the Dead Sea Scrolls which date from the last three centuries BCE and the first century of the Common Era, were hidden is not known.

Were the Arabs around then when the scrolls were written in Hebrew and then hidden by Jews? What was the West Bank called in ancient times, Eloy? It certainly wasn't called the West Bank.

The Semitic people are the precursors of modern Arabs, so Yes, in a sense. They were written not only in Hebrew but also in Aramaic (the language spoken by Jesus), and Greek. You are right, the area then was not called the West Bank but the Greek Seleucid Empire.

 

[Eloy]

Just who ever was first? does that seem fair? would you accept that rule for your own religious artifacts?

Cultural artifacts belong to the culture who created them. Jewish writings belong to the Jewish people. How is this even a question?

You are mistaken; cultural artifacts are often so important that they are recognized as belonging to all people and are held in trust as a world heritage. To make the false claim that the Dead Sea Scrolls belong only to Israelis is breathtakingly ignorant.

They travel the world on tours from time to time, but they belong to Israel. Anyone can go visit them.

The ownership belongs to humanity and the Palestinians contest that Israel owns them.

In St. Catherine;s Church on Mount Sinai are icons of the 2nd to the 4th century AD. Does this mean that the icons belong to humanity and not to St. Catherine's Church? Maybe you should get word to the Arabs that they should claim this too.

To my shame, I do not know about the icons in St. Catherine's Church but it sounds like they are indeed world heritage artifacts.

 

[Shusha]

You are mistaken again; the Dead Sea Scrolls are still being studied and scholars have no definitive explanation of their origin...

No definitive explanation of their origin? You are kidding, right? They are Hebrew writings (the language of the Jewish people). They narrate the history, myths, legends and religious doctrines of the Jewish people. They were written and used during a time and in a place of Jewish cultural precedence and control.

Are you going to argue that there is no definitive origin of Ebers Papyrus? Are you going to argue that manuscripts written in Egyptian hieroglyph or hieratic can't be definitively explained to be Egyptian in origin? Are you going to argue that Egyptian artifacts are actually Roman artifacts because Rome once conquered most of Egypt?

Please. You are being absolutely ridiculous.




(Not to say that they aren't of interest, possibly, to Christian historians. But interest and cultural heritage are not interchangeable terms).

 

[aris2chat]

Cultural artifacts belong to the culture who created them. Jewish writings belong to the Jewish people. How is this even a question?

You are mistaken; cultural artifacts are often so important that they are recognized as belonging to all people and are held in trust as a world heritage. To make the false claim that the Dead Sea Scrolls belong only to Israelis is breathtakingly ignorant.

They travel the world on tours from time to time, but they belong to Israel. Anyone can go visit them.

The ownership belongs to humanity and the Palestinians contest that Israel owns them.

In St. Catherine;s Church on Mount Sinai are icons of the 2nd to the 4th century AD. Does this mean that the icons belong to humanity and not to St. Catherine's Church? Maybe you should get word to the Arabs that they should claim this too.

To my shame, I do not know about the icons in St. Catherine's Church but it sounds like they are indeed world heritage artifacts.

Nag Hammadi Library belongs to the coptic church not to egypt. They changed hands several times before they found their home.

Dead sea scrolls have their home in Jerusalem.

The icons will stay in Alexandria, in the eastern orthodox church.

 

[Eloy]

You are mistaken; cultural artifacts are often so important that they are recognized as belonging to all people and are held in trust as a world heritage. To make the false claim that the Dead Sea Scrolls belong only to Israelis is breathtakingly ignorant.

Just when did the Palestinians possess the Scrolls and why did they hide them in the first place?

The Scrolls were discovered in the modern Occupied West Bank of Palestine. It is for this reason that the Palestians have a claim on them returning to the area in which they were found. It is like the Greeks claiming the Parthenon Marbles which are in England. Why the Dead Sea Scrolls which date from the last three centuries BCE and the first century of the Common Era, were hidden is not known.

land that was jewish, written by jews for the jewish religion.

There is no land of palestine yet

Mandate was british, before that it was ottoman.

Let them try and take the copper scrolls if they want instead

Israel is not giving up the dead sea scrolls

No, the Scrolls were discovered when the Occupied West Bank was part of Jordan. The British Mandate did not extend to the Dead Sea.

Dead sea were discovered in spring of '47, before Jordan occupied the WB illegally.

Matters were in a state of flux about this time and you are right that the Scrolls were found before Jordan occupied the West Bank but the United Nations had proposed that this area should be Arab. I suppose, strictly speaking, we should say the land of Palestine was under United Nations control. It should be noted that the Kingdom of Jordan still claims possession of the Scrolls.

Jordan could not care for them and they were nearly destroyed. Israel build a museum for their preservation and display.
Maybe they should have been left in Beirut instead.
No one else wanted to come up with the money to buy them except a jewish group.

Palestinians certainly did not seem to care about them back then

Now they think they have some claim?

They will stay with Israel, in the jewish state where they belong

There is a good case for them remaining in the Israeli museum where they are relatively safe for the moment. They would be safer in the Vatican State where they would be studied by linguists and theologians too.

 

[aris2chat]

Just when did the Palestinians possess the Scrolls and why did they hide them in the first place?

The Scrolls were discovered in the modern Occupied West Bank of Palestine. It is for this reason that the Palestians have a claim on them returning to the area in which they were found. It is like the Greeks claiming the Parthenon Marbles which are in England. Why the Dead Sea Scrolls which date from the last three centuries BCE and the first century of the Common Era, were hidden is not known.

land that was jewish, written by jews for the jewish religion.

There is no land of palestine yet

Mandate was british, before that it was ottoman.

Let them try and take the copper scrolls if they want instead

Israel is not giving up the dead sea scrolls

No, the Scrolls were discovered when the Occupied West Bank was part of Jordan. The British Mandate did not extend to the Dead Sea.

Dead sea were discovered in spring of '47, before Jordan occupied the WB illegally.

Matters were in a state of flux about this time and you are right that the Scrolls were found before Jordan occupied the West Bank but the United Nations had proposed that this area should be Arab. I suppose, strictly speaking, we should say the land of Palestine was under United Nations control. It should be noted that the Kingdom of Jordan still claims possession of the Scrolls.

Jordan could not care for them and they were nearly destroyed. Israel build a museum for their preservation and display.
Maybe they should have been left in Beirut instead.
No one else wanted to come up with the money to buy them except a jewish group.

Palestinians certainly did not seem to care about them back then

Now they think they have some claim?

They will stay with Israel, in the jewish state where they belong

There is a good case for them remaining in the Israeli museum where they are relatively safe for the moment. They would be safer in the Vatican State where they would be studied by linguists and theologians too.

They can and have been studied in Jerusalem. Anyone can go there or go online

 

[Shusha]

There is a good case for them remaining in the Israeli museum where they are relatively safe for the moment. They would be safer in the Vatican State where they would be studied by linguists and theologians too.

Hey. Here's an idea. Why don't they stay in Israel, the Jewish State, where they can be studied by, you know, linguists and theologians who are experts in Jewish linguistics and theology and history.

Why would they be less safe in Israel?

 

[Eloy]

You are mistaken again; the Dead Sea Scrolls are still being studied and scholars have no definitive explanation of their origin...

No definitive explanation of their origin? You are kidding, right? They are Hebrew writings (the language of the Jewish people). They narrate the history, myths, legends and religious doctrines of the Jewish people. They were written and used during a time and in a place of Jewish cultural precedence and control.

Are you going to argue that there is no definitive origin of Ebers Papyrus? Are you going to argue that manuscripts written in Egyptian hieroglyph or hieratic can't be definitively explained to be Egyptian in origin? Are you going to argue that Egyptian artifacts are actually Roman artifacts because Rome once conquered most of Egypt?

Please. You are being absolutely ridiculous.




(Not to say that they aren't of interest, possibly, to Christian historians. But interest and cultural heritage are not interchangeable terms).

The Scrolls are still being studied but for years this was not done properly. I am not an expert on the Scrolls and I have read that they seem to be from a Jewish sect and not necessarily part of Jewish orthodoxy. Remember, Aramaic is one of the languages used as Jesus used it to become a Jewish sect which was to develop into the Christian religion. Also, Greek is the language of some documents and there are even texts which are not part of orthodox Judaism. They are every bit as much Christian as Jewish.

 

[aris2chat]

You are mistaken again; the Dead Sea Scrolls are still being studied and scholars have no definitive explanation of their origin...

No definitive explanation of their origin? You are kidding, right? They are Hebrew writings (the language of the Jewish people). They narrate the history, myths, legends and religious doctrines of the Jewish people. They were written and used during a time and in a place of Jewish cultural precedence and control.

Are you going to argue that there is no definitive origin of Ebers Papyrus? Are you going to argue that manuscripts written in Egyptian hieroglyph or hieratic can't be definitively explained to be Egyptian in origin? Are you going to argue that Egyptian artifacts are actually Roman artifacts because Rome once conquered most of Egypt?

Please. You are being absolutely ridiculous.




(Not to say that they aren't of interest, possibly, to Christian historians. But interest and cultural heritage are not interchangeable terms).

The Scrolls are still being studied but for years this was not done properly. I am not an expert on the Scrolls and I have read that they seem to be from a Jewish sect and not necessarily part of Jewish orthodoxy. Remember, Aramaic is one of the languages used as Jesus used it to become a Jewish sect which was to develop into the Christian religion. Also, Greek is the language of some documents and there are even texts which are not part of orthodox Judaism. They are every bit as much Christian as Jewish.

and christians can study them in Jerusalem if they want

 

[Eloy]

The Scrolls were discovered in the modern Occupied West Bank of Palestine. It is for this reason that the Palestians have a claim on them returning to the area in which they were found. It is like the Greeks claiming the Parthenon Marbles which are in England. Why the Dead Sea Scrolls which date from the last three centuries BCE and the first century of the Common Era, were hidden is not known.

land that was jewish, written by jews for the jewish religion.

There is no land of palestine yet

Mandate was british, before that it was ottoman.

Let them try and take the copper scrolls if they want instead

Israel is not giving up the dead sea scrolls

No, the Scrolls were discovered when the Occupied West Bank was part of Jordan. The British Mandate did not extend to the Dead Sea.

Dead sea were discovered in spring of '47, before Jordan occupied the WB illegally.

Matters were in a state of flux about this time and you are right that the Scrolls were found before Jordan occupied the West Bank but the United Nations had proposed that this area should be Arab. I suppose, strictly speaking, we should say the land of Palestine was under United Nations control. It should be noted that the Kingdom of Jordan still claims possession of the Scrolls.

Jordan could not care for them and they were nearly destroyed. Israel build a museum for their preservation and display.
Maybe they should have been left in Beirut instead.
No one else wanted to come up with the money to buy them except a jewish group.

Palestinians certainly did not seem to care about them back then

Now they think they have some claim?

They will stay with Israel, in the jewish state where they belong

There is a good case for them remaining in the Israeli museum where they are relatively safe for the moment. They would be safer in the Vatican State where they would be studied by linguists and theologians too.

They can and have been studied in Jerusalem. Anyone can go there or go online

Let's face it; for safety and security, Jerusalem is not on top of the list of cities these days.

 

[aris2chat]

land that was jewish, written by jews for the jewish religion.

There is no land of palestine yet

Mandate was british, before that it was ottoman.

Let them try and take the copper scrolls if they want instead

Israel is not giving up the dead sea scrolls

No, the Scrolls were discovered when the Occupied West Bank was part of Jordan. The British Mandate did not extend to the Dead Sea.

Dead sea were discovered in spring of '47, before Jordan occupied the WB illegally.

Matters were in a state of flux about this time and you are right that the Scrolls were found before Jordan occupied the West Bank but the United Nations had proposed that this area should be Arab. I suppose, strictly speaking, we should say the land of Palestine was under United Nations control. It should be noted that the Kingdom of Jordan still claims possession of the Scrolls.

Jordan could not care for them and they were nearly destroyed. Israel build a museum for their preservation and display.
Maybe they should have been left in Beirut instead.
No one else wanted to come up with the money to buy them except a jewish group.

Palestinians certainly did not seem to care about them back then

Now they think they have some claim?

They will stay with Israel, in the jewish state where they belong

There is a good case for them remaining in the Israeli museum where they are relatively safe for the moment. They would be safer in the Vatican State where they would be studied by linguists and theologians too.

They can and have been studied in Jerusalem. Anyone can go there or go online

Let's face it; for safety and security, Jerusalem is not on top of the list of cities these days.

If anyone cares about the scrolls..............better not destroy Jerusalem

 

[Eloy]

No, the Scrolls were discovered when the Occupied West Bank was part of Jordan. The British Mandate did not extend to the Dead Sea.

Dead sea were discovered in spring of '47, before Jordan occupied the WB illegally.

Matters were in a state of flux about this time and you are right that the Scrolls were found before Jordan occupied the West Bank but the United Nations had proposed that this area should be Arab. I suppose, strictly speaking, we should say the land of Palestine was under United Nations control. It should be noted that the Kingdom of Jordan still claims possession of the Scrolls.

Jordan could not care for them and they were nearly destroyed. Israel build a museum for their preservation and display.
Maybe they should have been left in Beirut instead.
No one else wanted to come up with the money to buy them except a jewish group.

Palestinians certainly did not seem to care about them back then

Now they think they have some claim?

They will stay with Israel, in the jewish state where they belong

There is a good case for them remaining in the Israeli museum where they are relatively safe for the moment. They would be safer in the Vatican State where they would be studied by linguists and theologians too.

They can and have been studied in Jerusalem. Anyone can go there or go online

Let's face it; for safety and security, Jerusalem is not on top of the list of cities these days.

If anyone cares about the scrolls..............better not destroy Jerusalem

If so-called "human shields" don't work, archaeological scrolls won't.

 

[aris2chat]

Dead sea were discovered in spring of '47, before Jordan occupied the WB illegally.

Matters were in a state of flux about this time and you are right that the Scrolls were found before Jordan occupied the West Bank but the United Nations had proposed that this area should be Arab. I suppose, strictly speaking, we should say the land of Palestine was under United Nations control. It should be noted that the Kingdom of Jordan still claims possession of the Scrolls.

Jordan could not care for them and they were nearly destroyed. Israel build a museum for their preservation and display.
Maybe they should have been left in Beirut instead.
No one else wanted to come up with the money to buy them except a jewish group.

Palestinians certainly did not seem to care about them back then

Now they think they have some claim?

They will stay with Israel, in the jewish state where they belong

There is a good case for them remaining in the Israeli museum where they are relatively safe for the moment. They would be safer in the Vatican State where they would be studied by linguists and theologians too.

They can and have been studied in Jerusalem. Anyone can go there or go online

Let's face it; for safety and security, Jerusalem is not on top of the list of cities these days.

If anyone cares about the scrolls..............better not destroy Jerusalem

If so-called "human shields" don't work, archaeological scrolls won't.

Lots of steel, concrete and bullet proof glass is a start.

 

[Phoenall]

Yes, you read that right -- the Arab Palestinians are going to make a formal request to UNESCO to have "their" cultural heritage, the Dead Sea Scrolls, returned to them.

The audacity of it is shocking.

Next they'll be asking for their Talmud back.

basically all things jewish and christian are considered holy to muslims

Proving that they have no actual religious heritage other than their fake prophet who commanded them to " KILL THE JEWS " and " KILL THE UNBELIEVERS "

 

[peabody]

The Israeli people are going to start paying reparations to the Palestinians. 1/3 of their salary for the next ten years. This bill is in the Israeli parliament and is predicted to pass.

 

[Phoenall]

basically all things jewish and christian are considered holy to muslims

Possibly true. But recognition of the value or holiness of someone else's cultural heritage does not make it your cultural heritage nor does it give you leave to appropriate it.

hey im an athiest i think we'd be better off if all these things were burned, but if two religions both believe one thing is holy to them who decides who gets it?

The one that came first of course, which would be Judaism, unless the scrolls were written during the time of islam. If they pre date 625 C.E. then they are not of any islamic cultural or religious significance.

 

[Phoenall]

Dead sea were discovered in spring of '47, before Jordan occupied the WB illegally.

Matters were in a state of flux about this time and you are right that the Scrolls were found before Jordan occupied the West Bank but the United Nations had proposed that this area should be Arab. I suppose, strictly speaking, we should say the land of Palestine was under United Nations control. It should be noted that the Kingdom of Jordan still claims possession of the Scrolls.

Jordan could not care for them and they were nearly destroyed. Israel build a museum for their preservation and display.
Maybe they should have been left in Beirut instead.
No one else wanted to come up with the money to buy them except a jewish group.

Palestinians certainly did not seem to care about them back then

Now they think they have some claim?

They will stay with Israel, in the jewish state where they belong

There is a good case for them remaining in the Israeli museum where they are relatively safe for the moment. They would be safer in the Vatican State where they would be studied by linguists and theologians too.

They can and have been studied in Jerusalem. Anyone can go there or go online

Let's face it; for safety and security, Jerusalem is not on top of the list of cities these days.

If anyone cares about the scrolls..............better not destroy Jerusalem

If so-called "human shields" don't work, archaeological scrolls won't.

Nothing "so called" about them they are a fact and even hamas leaders admit that human shields are used to protect illegal weapons and terrorists

 

[Phoenall]

Matters were in a state of flux about this time and you are right that the Scrolls were found before Jordan occupied the West Bank but the United Nations had proposed that this area should be Arab. I suppose, strictly speaking, we should say the land of Palestine was under United Nations control. It should be noted that the Kingdom of Jordan still claims possession of the Scrolls.

There is a good case for them remaining in the Israeli museum where they are relatively safe for the moment. They would be safer in the Vatican State where they would be studied by linguists and theologians too.

They can and have been studied in Jerusalem. Anyone can go there or go online

Let's face it; for safety and security, Jerusalem is not on top of the list of cities these days.

If anyone cares about the scrolls..............better not destroy Jerusalem

If so-called "human shields" don't work, archaeological scrolls won't.

Lots of steel, concrete and bullet proof glass is a start.

Followed by deep pits full of poisonous reptiles and insects protected with chain guns