Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.

Hollie

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RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

BLUF: Hollie... YOU are right on the money.

I found the text of the Treaty of Lausanne. Article 30 doesn’t contain anything about “new states” as you described.
Maybe there’s a different version or a revised edition?
link?

ARTICLE 30.

Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipsofacto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.
(COMMENT)

Looking back over the responses, one of the misunderstanding I think P F Tinmore has, is buried in the statement where he say "Palestine has borders"
(something to that effect). Actually, the initial demarcations were generally agreed upon in 1920.
FRANCO-BRITISH CONVENTION ON CERTAIN POINTS CONNECTED WITH THE MANDATES FOR SYRIA AND THE LEBANON said:
The British and French Governments, respectively represented by the undersigned Plenipotentiaries, wishing to settle completely the problems raised by the attribution to Great Britain of the mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia and by the attribution to France of the mandate over Syria and the Lebanon, all three conferred by the Supreme Council at San Remo, have agreed on the following provisions:-
Article 1

The boundaries between the territories under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other are determined as follows:- →
SOURCE: Treaty #564


The key here is that P F Tinmore insists that the boundary denotes the "New State." I've explained the status a number of different ways, and that he is misinterpreting "Palestine" incorrectly. He does not get it that the status deals with the Territories under the Mandate.

If he cannot grasp it, then there is nothing we can do. We need to move on to the issues of the present day.
SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
I agree and I think P F Tinmore is adding context and intent to the wording of the treaty which are his alone.

The wording of Article 30, “State to which such territory is transferred.” does nothing to create any “State of Palestine” which, my impression, is what P F Tinmore insists the Treaty is establishing.

He has spent an entire decade pushing that falsehood and tends to run screaming from any counter to his ‘wants and needs” as he has done in this thread.

Moving to the present day as you describe is necessary as the Middle East is changing and realigning alliances and relations between Arabs and the Jewish State. I’m afraid however that P F Tinmore holds an eternal grievance and that neither time or distance will allow him to let go of.
 

RoccoR

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RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: They were designated Territories under Mandate.

OK, I am ready for a laugh. Explain to me how Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and Palestine were not new states.
(COMMENT)

With the exception of Iraq, those nations did not meet State State until the 1940s.

Lebanon did not become an independent and self-governing nation until: 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)​
Syria did not become an independent and self-governing nation until: 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)​
Iraq did not become an independent and self-governing nation until: 3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​
Jordan did not become an independent and self-governing nation until: 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​
Palestine has not completed its transition;​
Israel (Partition of Palestine) became an independent and self-governing nation: 15 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
 

toastman

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RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

BLUF: Hollie... YOU are right on the money.

I found the text of the Treaty of Lausanne. Article 30 doesn’t contain anything about “new states” as you described.
Maybe there’s a different version or a revised edition?
link?

ARTICLE 30.

Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipsofacto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.
(COMMENT)

Looking back over the responses, one of the misunderstanding I think P F Tinmore has, is buried in the statement where he say "Palestine has borders"
(something to that effect). Actually, the initial demarcations were generally agreed upon in 1920.
FRANCO-BRITISH CONVENTION ON CERTAIN POINTS CONNECTED WITH THE MANDATES FOR SYRIA AND THE LEBANON said:
The British and French Governments, respectively represented by the undersigned Plenipotentiaries, wishing to settle completely the problems raised by the attribution to Great Britain of the mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia and by the attribution to France of the mandate over Syria and the Lebanon, all three conferred by the Supreme Council at San Remo, have agreed on the following provisions:-
Article 1

The boundaries between the territories under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other are determined as follows:- →
SOURCE: Treaty #564


The key here is that P F Tinmore insists that the boundary denotes the "New State." I've explained the status a number of different ways, and that he is misinterpreting "Palestine" incorrectly. He does not get it that the status deals with the Territories under the Mandate.

If he cannot grasp it, then there is nothing we can do. We need to move on to the issues of the present day.
SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
OK, I am ready for a laugh. Explain to me how Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and Palestine were not new states.
You claim Palestine was a state before Israel. Well then , if that was the case, why declare independence right after Israel did so, than again in 1988 if they were already a state
 
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P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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Tammi Rossman-Benjamin: BDS on U.S. College Campuses. Kim Robin Stoller: Short Response


They played a couple of cases of antisemite cards.
 
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P F Tinmore

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Noura Erakat: Oppose Israeli apartheid & annexation of Palestine

 

rylah

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Noura Erakat: Oppose Israeli apartheid & annexation of Palestine

In the farewell video on the way to attack,
Ahmed didn't mention anything about Israel,
but that the family suspected him of being "a collaborator",

One has to ask if this immediate press release was scripted as a coverup for the family...
And about the security arrangements, did this oligarch princess ever asked her uncle,
Chief PLO Negotiator, about his part in the whole arrangement?

Or she just enjoys spending in America off of what the PLO steal from the people?
 
Last edited:
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P F Tinmore

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4th Education Webinar: Anti-Zionism vs. Anti-Semitism

 

rylah

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4th Education Webinar: Anti-Zionism vs. Anti-Semitism

An "Educational webinar" on anti-Zionism, and not a single Zionist in the discussion.

This is not even nearly a setting for an intelligent conversation.

Why are these guys so chicken to face real opposition?
 

RoccoR

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RE: For those who want to dig deeper than sound bites. Of course, discussions are always welcome.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I am really interested in hearing how the ICC addresses the complaint.

(COMMENT)

◈ I'm not sure that The West Bank (Ramallah Government) can even make a legitimate complaint against Israel. The Palestinian Party in Power made it plain that (as an example):
• "Murdering 12 Israeli children and 25 adults was a "natural human expression that all human laws guarantee."
• The Association of Palestinian Scholars issued a fatwa - a Muslim religious legal ruling - entitled "The ruling of Islam concerning normalization with the Zionist enemy occupying the land of Palestine."
✦ That act itself violates International Humanitarian Law.
✦ Making such an official statement is a violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights against incitement.
✦ Paying stipends to the criminal actors is a violation of International Authorities to hold those who finance terrorism criminally (whether directly or indirectly), civilly or administratively liable for such support.
◈ I'm not sure that the ICC has the authority to rule on Israeli (non-member) boundaries issues.​
◈ I'm not so sure that the exclusive criminal jurisdiction over Israelis in the West Bank insulates the ICC from certain actions.​
◈ I'm not sure that the mere signature by a government (Ramallah), that supports or cooperates with terrorism [Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS of Gaza)] and other criminal activity, has the right to delegate to any international court jurisdiction of any sort. The Ramallah Government and the Gaza Government has some sort of working arrangement of mutual support. HAMAS is on the European Union (EU)(Continental Europe • 27 members) Terrorism List, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem.’ Can the ICC (Party #1) act as the Prosecutor to explicitly further the credibility behind the Hostile activities of the Arab Palestinians (Party #2) against Israel (Party #3) operating against a designated terrorist organization (by the EU)(Party #4)?​
◈ And if the ICC can maintain legal, ethical, and moral credibility by cooperating with a designated terrorist organization, does that run afoul of the Monetary Gold Principle?​
◈ Does the ICC have the authority to intervene, in the operations of a country, functioning under the Hague Regulation Article 43?​
◈ Does the ICC have any obligation to act in accordance with their obligations under international law to counter incitement of terrorist acts motivated by judicial tolerance and cooperation in the institutions by terrorists and their supporters?​
◈ Does the ICC have the authority to intervene in Israeli Prosecutions under Article 68 Fourth Geneva Convention when the Arab Palestinians:​
✦ Commit an offense that is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power?​
✦ Commit an offense that constitutes an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces?​
✦ Commit an offense that constitutes espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or Murder?​

I find the rumors disturbing - IF TRUE, that members of HAMAS and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine are working with the ICC. Is there the appearance of collusion? Is the parent International legal system itself, concerned at all that the appearance of impropriety will contribute to the erosion of international confidence in the system?

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
 
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P F Tinmore

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RE: For those who want to dig deeper than sound bites. Of course, discussions are always welcome.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I am really interested in hearing how the ICC addresses the complaint.

(COMMENT)

◈ I'm not sure that The West Bank (Ramallah Government) can even make a legitimate complaint against Israel. The Palestinian Party in Power made it plain that (as an example):
• "Murdering 12 Israeli children and 25 adults was a "natural human expression that all human laws guarantee."
• The Association of Palestinian Scholars issued a fatwa - a Muslim religious legal ruling - entitled "The ruling of Islam concerning normalization with the Zionist enemy occupying the land of Palestine."
✦ That act itself violates International Humanitarian Law.
✦ Making such an official statement is a violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights against incitement.
✦ Paying stipends to the criminal actors is a violation of International Authorities to hold those who finance terrorism criminally (whether directly or indirectly), civilly or administratively liable for such support.
◈ I'm not sure that the ICC has the authority to rule on Israeli (non-member) boundaries issues.​
◈ I'm not so sure that the exclusive criminal jurisdiction over Israelis in the West Bank insulates the ICC from certain actions.​
◈ I'm not sure that the mere signature by a government (Ramallah), that supports or cooperates with terrorism [Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS of Gaza)] and other criminal activity, has the right to delegate to any international court jurisdiction of any sort. The Ramallah Government and the Gaza Government has some sort of working arrangement of mutual support. HAMAS is on the European Union (EU)(Continental Europe • 27 members) Terrorism List, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem.’ Can the ICC (Party #1) act as the Prosecutor to explicitly further the credibility behind the Hostile activities of the Arab Palestinians (Party #2) against Israel (Party #3) operating against a designated terrorist organization (by the EU)(Party #4)?​
◈ And if the ICC can maintain legal, ethical, and moral credibility by cooperating with a designated terrorist organization, does that run afoul of the Monetary Gold Principle?​
◈ Does the ICC have the authority to intervene, in the operations of a country, functioning under the Hague Regulation Article 43?​
◈ Does the ICC have any obligation to act in accordance with their obligations under international law to counter incitement of terrorist acts motivated by judicial tolerance and cooperation in the institutions by terrorists and their supporters?​
◈ Does the ICC have the authority to intervene in Israeli Prosecutions under Article 68 Fourth Geneva Convention when the Arab Palestinians:​
✦ Commit an offense that is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power?​
✦ Commit an offense that constitutes an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces?​
✦ Commit an offense that constitutes espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or Murder?​

I find the rumors disturbing - IF TRUE, that members of HAMAS and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine are working with the ICC. Is there the appearance of collusion? Is the parent International legal system itself, concerned at all that the appearance of impropriety will contribute to the erosion of international confidence in the system?

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
Terrorism is an Israeli propaganda concept.
 
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P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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American Jews & Israel: A Faltering Relationship with Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb & Allan Brownfeld

 

toastman

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RE: For those who want to dig deeper than sound bites. Of course, discussions are always welcome.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I am really interested in hearing how the ICC addresses the complaint.

(COMMENT)

◈ I'm not sure that The West Bank (Ramallah Government) can even make a legitimate complaint against Israel. The Palestinian Party in Power made it plain that (as an example):
• "Murdering 12 Israeli children and 25 adults was a "natural human expression that all human laws guarantee."
• The Association of Palestinian Scholars issued a fatwa - a Muslim religious legal ruling - entitled "The ruling of Islam concerning normalization with the Zionist enemy occupying the land of Palestine."
✦ That act itself violates International Humanitarian Law.
✦ Making such an official statement is a violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights against incitement.
✦ Paying stipends to the criminal actors is a violation of International Authorities to hold those who finance terrorism criminally (whether directly or indirectly), civilly or administratively liable for such support.
◈ I'm not sure that the ICC has the authority to rule on Israeli (non-member) boundaries issues.​
◈ I'm not so sure that the exclusive criminal jurisdiction over Israelis in the West Bank insulates the ICC from certain actions.​
◈ I'm not sure that the mere signature by a government (Ramallah), that supports or cooperates with terrorism [Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS of Gaza)] and other criminal activity, has the right to delegate to any international court jurisdiction of any sort. The Ramallah Government and the Gaza Government has some sort of working arrangement of mutual support. HAMAS is on the European Union (EU)(Continental Europe • 27 members) Terrorism List, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem.’ Can the ICC (Party #1) act as the Prosecutor to explicitly further the credibility behind the Hostile activities of the Arab Palestinians (Party #2) against Israel (Party #3) operating against a designated terrorist organization (by the EU)(Party #4)?​
◈ And if the ICC can maintain legal, ethical, and moral credibility by cooperating with a designated terrorist organization, does that run afoul of the Monetary Gold Principle?​
◈ Does the ICC have the authority to intervene, in the operations of a country, functioning under the Hague Regulation Article 43?​
◈ Does the ICC have any obligation to act in accordance with their obligations under international law to counter incitement of terrorist acts motivated by judicial tolerance and cooperation in the institutions by terrorists and their supporters?​
◈ Does the ICC have the authority to intervene in Israeli Prosecutions under Article 68 Fourth Geneva Convention when the Arab Palestinians:​
✦ Commit an offense that is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power?​
✦ Commit an offense that constitutes an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces?​
✦ Commit an offense that constitutes espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or Murder?​

I find the rumors disturbing - IF TRUE, that members of HAMAS and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine are working with the ICC. Is there the appearance of collusion? Is the parent International legal system itself, concerned at all that the appearance of impropriety will contribute to the erosion of international confidence in the system?

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
Terrorism is an Israeli propaganda concept.
Would you agree that attacking another country with the intention of killing civilians in order to achieve a political and/or religious goal is terrorism ?
 

RoccoR

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RE: For those who want to dig deeper than sound bites. Of course, discussions are always welcome.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


Even in the 1930s, terrorism was considered to be "criminal acts" directed against a target audience with the intent to create "enhanced fear" planted in the minds of the people in proximity of an easily accessed area and densely populated areas.

Terrorism is an Israeli propaganda concept.
(COMMENT)


"Terrorism" is NOT a "propaganda concept;" but, rather a hostile activity. It is the propaganda that incites hostile action.

You can test that by merely substituting any of the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, or Asymmetric Fighters in place of "terrorist."

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
 
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P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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RE: For those who want to dig deeper than sound bites. Of course, discussions are always welcome.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


Even in the 1930s, terrorism was considered to be "criminal acts" directed against a target audience with the intent to create "enhanced fear" planted in the minds of the people in proximity of an easily accessed area and densely populated areas.

Terrorism is an Israeli propaganda concept.
(COMMENT)


"Terrorism" is NOT a "propaganda concept;" but, rather a hostile activity. It is the propaganda that incites hostile action.

You can test that by merely substituting any of the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, or Asymmetric Fighters in place of "terrorist."

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
Palestinian self defense is terrorism.
 

RoccoR

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RE: For those who want to dig deeper than sound bites. Of course, discussions are always welcome.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Headline -- ‘Nothing Can Justify Terrorism — Ever,’ Says Secretary-General, as Security ... There is no such thing as a justifiable campaign of terrorism; NONE
!

Palestinian self defense is terrorism.
(COMMENT)

While the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) make all sorts of claims to justify Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence, NONE of them are valid. The HoAP have NO special dispensation to commit any
offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power → or degrade public order and safety. The HoAP have NO special dispensation to endanger or take innocent lives, have a deleterious effect on international relations, and may jeopardize the security of any State. The HoAP may NOT use or threaten the use of violence, as a strategy to achieve certain political ends or objectives... t aims to induce a state of fear in the victim, that is ruthless and does not conform with humanitarian rules...

While the HoAP ignore their obligation to prohibit all advocacy that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence
(“incitement” or “incitement to hatred”), as mandated by Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“CCPR”), they do so just the same. They are people → only governed by the limits of their criminal minds.

Forget those videos on You-Tube Videos that the HoAP use to promote violence or Fatwa written by immoral Islamic clerics that justify the deliberate attack soft targets → open to members of the public of all ages, → open to members of the public and encompasses any commercial, business, cultural, historical, educational, religious, entertainment, recreational or similar place.


(∑ Ω)


For far too long have the HoAP been allowed to make the claims that they are somehow justified to use terrorism do to the lack of accomplishments in diplomacy and failure in achieving any measure of Friendly Relations and Co-operation with Israel towards a permanent solution for peace.

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
 

Hollie

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RE: For those who want to dig deeper than sound bites. Of course, discussions are always welcome.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


Even in the 1930s, terrorism was considered to be "criminal acts" directed against a target audience with the intent to create "enhanced fear" planted in the minds of the people in proximity of an easily accessed area and densely populated areas.

Terrorism is an Israeli propaganda concept.
(COMMENT)


"Terrorism" is NOT a "propaganda concept;" but, rather a hostile activity. It is the propaganda that incites hostile action.

You can test that by merely substituting any of the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, or Asymmetric Fighters in place of "terrorist."

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
Palestinian self defense is terrorism.
Offensive gee-had attacks are not self defense.
 
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P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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RE: For those who want to dig deeper than sound bites. Of course, discussions are always welcome.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Headline -- ‘Nothing Can Justify Terrorism — Ever,’ Says Secretary-General, as Security ... There is no such thing as a justifiable campaign of terrorism; NONE
!

Palestinian self defense is terrorism.
(COMMENT)

While the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) make all sorts of claims to justify Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence, NONE of them are valid. The HoAP have NO special dispensation to commit any
offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power → or degrade public order and safety. The HoAP have NO special dispensation to endanger or take innocent lives, have a deleterious effect on international relations, and may jeopardize the security of any State. The HoAP may NOT use or threaten the use of violence, as a strategy to achieve certain political ends or objectives... t aims to induce a state of fear in the victim, that is ruthless and does not conform with humanitarian rules...

While the HoAP ignore their obligation to prohibit all advocacy that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence
(“incitement” or “incitement to hatred”), as mandated by Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“CCPR”), they do so just the same. They are people → only governed by the limits of their criminal minds.

Forget those videos on You-Tube Videos that the HoAP use to promote violence or Fatwa written by immoral Islamic clerics that justify the deliberate attack soft targets → open to members of the public of all ages, → open to members of the public and encompasses any commercial, business, cultural, historical, educational, religious, entertainment, recreational or similar place.


(∑ Ω)


For far too long have the HoAP been allowed to make the claims that they are somehow justified to use terrorism do to the lack of accomplishments in diplomacy and failure in achieving any measure of Friendly Relations and Co-operation with Israel towards a permanent solution for peace.

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
You can't post without sliming the Palestinians.
 

Hollie

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RE: For those who want to dig deeper than sound bites. Of course, discussions are always welcome.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Headline -- ‘Nothing Can Justify Terrorism — Ever,’ Says Secretary-General, as Security ... There is no such thing as a justifiable campaign of terrorism; NONE
!

Palestinian self defense is terrorism.
(COMMENT)

While the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) make all sorts of claims to justify Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence, NONE of them are valid. The HoAP have NO special dispensation to commit any
offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power → or degrade public order and safety. The HoAP have NO special dispensation to endanger or take innocent lives, have a deleterious effect on international relations, and may jeopardize the security of any State. The HoAP may NOT use or threaten the use of violence, as a strategy to achieve certain political ends or objectives... t aims to induce a state of fear in the victim, that is ruthless and does not conform with humanitarian rules...

While the HoAP ignore their obligation to prohibit all advocacy that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence
(“incitement” or “incitement to hatred”), as mandated by Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“CCPR”), they do so just the same. They are people → only governed by the limits of their criminal minds.

Forget those videos on You-Tube Videos that the HoAP use to promote violence or Fatwa written by immoral Islamic clerics that justify the deliberate attack soft targets → open to members of the public of all ages, → open to members of the public and encompasses any commercial, business, cultural, historical, educational, religious, entertainment, recreational or similar place.


(∑ Ω)


For far too long have the HoAP been allowed to make the claims that they are somehow justified to use terrorism do to the lack of accomplishments in diplomacy and failure in achieving any measure of Friendly Relations and Co-operation with Israel towards a permanent solution for peace.

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
You can't post without sliming the Palestinians.
BLUF causes your hurt feelings?
 

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