Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.

[Hollie]

That was highlighted in my post.

No. It was not.

Identify the citation in the Treaty of Lausanne that invents your imagined “country of Pal’istan”.

Quite strange that you make pointless claims you can’t support and then retreat to cutting and pasting YouTube

 

[P F Tinmore]

No. It was not.

Identify the citation in the Treaty of Lausanne that invents your imagined “country of Pal’istan”.

Quite strange that you make pointless claims you can’t support and then retreat to cutting and pasting YouTube

It is your pointless claim not mine.

 

[Hollie]

It is your pointless claim not mine.

Your usual emotional outburst.

Why make pointless claims you can’t defend? You may believe the absurdities you post but when you’re unable to support those nonsense claims it makes you appear rather buffoonish.,

Nothing on that citation for the Treaty of Lausanne inventing your imagined “country of Pal’istan”

Nothing on those “new states”?

Gee whiz. A decade of pointless claims by cutting and pasting the same snippets of “quotes” that don’t support your claims.

A total hoot.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinian Protests and the Future of the Palestinian Struggle​

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: The Palestinians have never ceded territory or sovereignty to anyone.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: This is a Non-sensical question. The Ottoman Empire was a foreign colonial Power in terms of the Middle East North African (MENA) Region for five centuries (depending on the plot of land and the time frame).

Does a foreign colonial power have the authority to make that decision? Remember that a Mandate had no land or sovereignty.

(COMMENT)
.
Foreign Powers and external forces exert their own authority; sometimes successfully and sometimes not. Reality (the actual ground truth) expresses the issue of sovereignty and what entity maintains that sovereign control.

You keep bringing up this notion: That the Mandate had no land or sovereignty. Yes, that is true. No one (that I can tell) has suggested otherwise. What is true (and a matter of record) is that:

POINT ONE:​

​

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​

​

The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​

​

​

POINT TWO:​

At no time have the Arab Palestinians maintained exclusive jurisdiction under international law; except as referenced with Area "A" and the Gaza Strip. In this regard, the basic interrogative (on sovereignty) questions as to the exercise full and unchallengeable power over a given territory and all people within that territory, during a given duration and time period.ª​

Basically, I think you have a comprehension problem with the concept of sovereignty as it applies to a state (which varies depending on the type of government).

​

‘Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished from other related uses of the term: sovereignty in its internal aspects and political sovereignty. Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the bearer of supreme authority within a State.​

SOURCE: Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law / John P. Grant and J. Craig Barker. -- 3rd ed. ©2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc pp563​

​

​

.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
ª Bodley “Weakening the principle of sovereignty in international law: The international tribunal for the former Yugoslavia” 1993 New York University Journal of International Law and Politics 419. MacCormick Questioning Sovereignty: Law, State, and Nation in the European Commonwealth (1999) 127 provides the following explanation of the term “sovereignty” by distinguishing between legal and political sovereignty: “[W]hereas a 'merely legal conception',
Sovereignty: Organized Hypocrisy/Stephen D. Krasner. © 1999 by Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey 08540

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

Palestinian Protests and the Future of the Palestinian Struggle​

Nothing on that citation for the Treaty of Lausanne inventing your imagined “country of Pal’istan”?

Nothing on those “new states”?

Yst another failure on your part to support your specious claims.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: The Palestinians have never ceded territory or sovereignty to anyone.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: This is a Non-sensical question. The Ottoman Empire was a foreign colonial Power in terms of the Middle East North African (MENA) Region for five centuries (depending on the plot of land and the time frame).


(COMMENT)
.
Foreign Powers and external forces exert their own authority; sometimes successfully and sometimes not. Reality (the actual ground truth) expresses the issue of sovereignty and what entity maintains that sovereign control.

You keep bringing up this notion: That the Mandate had no land or sovereignty. Yes, that is true. No one (that I can tell) has suggested otherwise. What is true (and a matter of record) is that:

POINT ONE:​

​

​

POINT TWO:​

At no time have the Arab Palestinians maintained exclusive jurisdiction under international law; except as referenced with Area "A" and the Gaza Strip. In this regard, the basic interrogative (on sovereignty) questions as to the exercise full and unchallengeable power over a given territory and all people within that territory, during a given duration and time period.ª​

Basically, I think you have a comprehension problem with the concept of sovereignty as it applies to a state (which varies depending on the type of government).

​

​

.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
ª Bodley “Weakening the principle of sovereignty in international law: The international tribunal for the former Yugoslavia” 1993 New York University Journal of International Law and Politics 419. MacCormick Questioning Sovereignty: Law, State, and Nation in the European Commonwealth (1999) 127 provides the following explanation of the term “sovereignty” by distinguishing between legal and political sovereignty: “[W]hereas a 'merely legal conception',
Sovereignty: Organized Hypocrisy/Stephen D. Krasner. © 1999 by Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey 08540

Most Respectfully,
R

You keep confusing military control with sovereignty. Who has the power to control V. who has the right to control.

Article 4​

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States - The Faculty of Law

Read this story on the University of Oslo's website.

www.jus.uio.no

-------------------
1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237

www.mideastweb.org

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: The Palestinians have never ceded territory or sovereignty to anyone.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Clearly, you cannot form an argument in which the ground truth exhibits Arab Palestinians sovereignty beyond Area "A" and the Gaza Strip. As stated previously:

Today, the only place where the Arab Palestinians can claim "sovereignty" is the Gaza Strip since 2005 (by default on the Israeli unilateral withdrawal) and Area "A" of the West Bank (by agreement of the PLO in the Oslo Accords → sole representative of the Palestinian People).​

​

◈ Area "A" is a Dictatorship under PLO (Fatah) Control.​

​

◈ The Gaza Strip is a Dictatorship under the control of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).​

You keep confusing military control with sovereignty. Who has the power to control V. who has the right to control.

Article 4​

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States - The Faculty of Law

Read this story on the University of Oslo's website.

www.jus.uio.no

-------------------

(COMMENT)

Where is the Palestinian State? Show me where it is bounded.

IF there is such a thing as the State of Palestine, THEN it is a failed state.

Territory
As several essays here point out, the contemporary international system is generally traced to the treaties of Westphalia in the 1640s. The ideal envisaged by that Westphalian model was to coordinate states and territories, making each state, whether monarchy, principality, or republic, the sole sovereign authority in the territory to which it lay claim. This territorialization of power attempted to normalize a system of mutually recognized sovereign territorial states; it became the standard that European states subsequently maintained as they expanded globally. The Westphalian model also imagined that the international system would maintain itself through a coordinated system of international law, treaties, and diplomatic exchanges.

The point in all of this, of course, is that international political practice today demands that a sovereign entity be located and bounded. Governments in exile are not sovereign. Indeterminate spaces like that occupied by the Palestinian Authority are not sovereign territories,

SOURCE: Sovereignty and the Study of States © 2009 by The Board of Regents of the University of Wisconsin System, University Press
John Ruggie, Constructing the World Polity: The New International Relations (New York: Routledge, 1998); Robert H. Jackson, Quasi- States: Sovereignty, International Relations, and the Third World (New York: Cambridge University Press, 1993); Martha Nussbaum, Hiding from Humanity: Disgust, Shame, and the Law (Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 2004); Thomas W. Pogge, World Poverty and Human Rights: Cosmopolitan Responsibilities and Reforms (Oxford: Polity Press, 2002); Amartya Sen, Rationality and Freedom (Cambridge, Mass.: Belknap Press, 2002); David Held, Global Covenant: The Social Democratic Alternative to the Washington Consensus (Oxford: Polity Press, 2004).

1. Reaffirmsthe inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;​

​

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237

www.mideastweb.org

.
(COMMENT)

First, General Assembly Resolutions are not binding requiring action by any state.
Second, there is no demand here. And no one actually contests this notion. In fact, the State of Israel recognizes this notion, in that they have used it to create their state and national home.

Positive Rights​

Since the concept of rights limits the actions of the government, the only way to circumvent them is by adding new rights that are allegedly superior to the others. The concept of Positive Rights was developed. These new rights differ from the old rights. Instead of involving freedom from interference from others, these new rights demand goods and services.

The "positive" in positive rights refers to the fact that to satisfy these rights, other people must provide them. They require action from others, instead of inaction. A "right" to health care is such a right. In order to fulfill it, a doctor must be enslaved. The doctor may be paid of course, but then others are required to pay the bill.

Positive rights are not compatible with real rights, or "negative rights". The positive rights requires actions on the part of others. Negative rights requires that no man can be forced to do anything he doesn't want. The two are incompatible. Positive rights are accepted at the expense of negative rights. They cannot coexist, since they are polar opposites.

SOURCE: Copyright © 2001 by Jeff Landauer and Joseph Rowlands

( ∑ )

What is it exactly, does the Arab Palestinian want? They do not really know. They do not speak with one voice. But as long as "jihad" and "armed struggle" are considered part of the solution, and the Permanent Status of Negotiations is ignored, the less likely it is that the Arab Palestinian will come anywhere close to want they want (even if they could decide).
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

IF there is such a thing as the State of Palestine, THEN it is a failed state.

It is an occupied state and has been since 1924.

 

[Hollie]

You keep confusing military control with sovereignty. Who has the power to control V. who has the right to control.

Article 4​

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States - The Faculty of Law

Read this story on the University of Oslo's website.

www.jus.uio.no

-------------------
1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237

www.mideastweb.org

The UN issues lots of opinions.

Nothing in the UN opinion suggests your phony spam relative to the Treaty of Lausanne inventing a Pally state is supportable.

Maybe cut and paste that Zebra thingy.... for the 412th time.

 

[Hollie]

It is an occupied state and has been since 1924.

Your ''treaty of Lausanne invented the state of Pally'land'' conspiracy theory.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Island Connections: The Palestine 2021 Uprising and BDS​

 

[P F Tinmore]

What’s Next for Israel? Ari Shavit, Peter Beinart, Abe Foxman and Dan Senor​

 

[Hollie]

What’s Next for Israel? Ari Shavit, Peter Beinart, Abe Foxman and Dan Senor​

If, as you insist, the ''country of Pal'istan'', and various ''new states'' were invented by the Treaty of Lausanne in 1924, why is there still occasional talk of a two state solution with a new ''country of Pal'istan'' alongside the State of Israel?

 

[P F Tinmore]

If, as you insist, the ''country of Pal'istan'', and various ''new states'' were invented by the Treaty of Lausanne in 1924, why is there still occasional talk of a two state solution with a new ''country of Pal'istan'' alongside the State of Israel?

The two state solution (solution to what I don't know) was a foreign imposed concept that is long dead.

 

[Hollie]

The two state solution (solution to what I don't know) was a foreign imposed concept that is long dead.

If, as you insist, the ''country of Pal'istan'', and various ''new states'' were invented by the Treaty of Lausanne in 1924, why is there talk of a two-state solution when the “country of Pal’istan” already exists? Did no one forward links to dictator Abbas or the Emir of Sinwar’istan to advise that you have decreed existence of the “country of Pal’istan”?

Whatever became of those “ new states” you claim were also invented by the Treaty of Lausanne?

 

[P F Tinmore]

If, as you insist, the ''country of Pal'istan'', and various ''new states'' were invented by the Treaty of Lausanne in 1924, why is there talk of a two-state solution when the “country of Pal’istan” already exists? Did no one forward links to dictator Abbas or the Emir of Sinwar’istan to advise that you have decreed existence of the “country of Pal’istan”?

Whatever became of those “ new states” you claim were also invented by the Treaty of Lausanne?

 

[Hollie]

Couldn’t find a YouTube video to cut and paste, eh?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Jewish, Israeli, and...ANTI-ZIONIST? w/ Miko Peled​